From fofp at STAFFMAIL.ED.AC.UK Thu Jul 4 05:03:49 2013 From: fofp at STAFFMAIL.ED.AC.UK (Mike Holmes) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 10:03:49 +0100 Subject: Hawkmoths do sonic blasts Message-ID: http://www.nature.com/news/hawkmoths-zap-bats-with-sonic-blasts-from-their-genitals-1.13333 -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From insect.brain at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 4 05:36:26 2013 From: insect.brain at GMAIL.COM (mike c) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 04:36:26 -0500 Subject: Hawkmoths do sonic blasts In-Reply-To: <51D53A75.4080402@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: That's great but I'm fighting the old memes like hell for my aquarian age to get through. I hope to god 2 words are coming up as red flags again and again for everyone here. Sceince. and Scientists the first is bad enough but the second leaves so much room for error as to be virtually unusable since it infers a human conclusion, However, one need not look beyond the mind of Viktor Schauberger to see how useful this kind of thing is. Wonders aloud: was there any human element to WW 2 at all really?? cheers!! On 7/4/13, Mike Holmes wrote: > http://www.nature.com/news/hawkmoths-zap-bats-with-sonic-blasts-from-their-genitals-1.13333 > > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > From smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 4 06:11:41 2013 From: smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 18:11:41 +0800 Subject: Hawkmoths do sonic blasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Using the genitals as ultrasound weapons. Humans will never do that, i think. On 4 Jul 2013 17:38, "mike c" wrote: > That's great but I'm fighting the old memes like hell for my aquarian > age to get through. > I hope to god 2 words are coming up as red flags again and again for > everyone here. > Sceince. > and > Scientists > > the first is bad enough but the second leaves so much room for error as > to be virtually unusable since it infers a human conclusion, > > However, one need not look beyond the mind of Viktor Schauberger to > see how useful this kind of thing is. > > Wonders aloud: was there any human element to WW 2 at all really?? > cheers!! > > > > > On 7/4/13, Mike Holmes wrote: > > > http://www.nature.com/news/hawkmoths-zap-bats-with-sonic-blasts-from-their-genitals-1.13333 > > > > -- > > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > > From insect.brain at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 4 06:23:12 2013 From: insect.brain at GMAIL.COM (mike c) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 05:23:12 -0500 Subject: Hawkmoths do sonic blasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/4/13, Jonathan Smith wrote: > Using the genitals as ultrasound weapons. Humans will never do that, i > think. I was just back on this and thinking of jokes. For now, will just go with a breakdown "moths make noises at bats" :) I'm not ready to buy which species has a butthole on it's legs, etc as it confuses the issue :) :) I'll have to have a hands on look for myself and see what funtion I think a certain part is peforming. BTW, the Warrior thing IS happening in Tokyo. I think you made it happen. From smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 4 06:42:44 2013 From: smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 18:42:44 +0800 Subject: Hawkmoths do sonic blasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is amazing where ears can be.... I shudder to think! The Warrior thing in Tokyo? Not me..... On 4 July 2013 18:23, mike c wrote: > On 7/4/13, Jonathan Smith wrote: > > Using the genitals as ultrasound weapons. Humans will never do that, i > > think. > > I was just back on this and thinking of jokes. > For now, will just go with a breakdown > > "moths make noises at bats" :) > > I'm not ready to buy which species has a butthole on it's legs, etc as > it confuses the issue :) :) > I'll have to have a hands on look for myself and see what funtion I > think a certain part is peforming. > BTW, the Warrior thing IS happening in Tokyo. > I think you made it happen. > From insect.brain at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 4 06:43:15 2013 From: insect.brain at GMAIL.COM (mike c) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 05:43:15 -0500 Subject: Hawkmoths do sonic blasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: > On 7/4/13, Jonathan Smith wrote: >> Using the genitals as ultrasound weapons. Humans will never do that, i >> think. The priniciple might save our entire race. we might already be doing it From insect.brain at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 4 06:47:50 2013 From: insect.brain at GMAIL.COM (mike c) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 05:47:50 -0500 Subject: Hawkmoths do sonic blasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: > On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: >> On 7/4/13, Jonathan Smith wrote: >>> Using the genitals as ultrasound weapons. Humans will never do that, i >>> think. Just look at the jet crash in walesville new york. We should at least be equipped to meet them on some kind of terms they understand and I am sure we do/can. How crude dunno :) From insect.brain at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 4 07:14:24 2013 From: insect.brain at GMAIL.COM (mike c) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 06:14:24 -0500 Subject: Hawkmoths do sonic blasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: so if we apply walesville to this, the bats might be receiving very unpleasant blasts of heat. HEAT? Now i get it On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: > On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: >> On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: >>> On 7/4/13, Jonathan Smith wrote: >>>> Using the genitals as ultrasound weapons. Humans will never do that, i >>>> think. > > Just look at the jet crash in walesville new york. > We should at least be equipped to meet them on some kind of terms they > understand and I am sure we do/can. > How crude dunno :) > From insect.brain at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 4 14:47:20 2013 From: insect.brain at GMAIL.COM (mike c) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 13:47:20 -0500 Subject: Hawkmoths do sonic blasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I expect it be known that I will take anything and everything and TRY to turn it into UFO material and "humans are not the only thinkers". It is supposed to be a little funny. I'd prefer to have my act concluded with 2 emails On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: > so if we apply walesville to this, the bats might be receiving very > unpleasant blasts of heat. > HEAT? > Now i get it > > On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: >> On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: >>> On 7/4/13, mike c wrote: >>>> On 7/4/13, Jonathan Smith wrote: >>>>> Using the genitals as ultrasound weapons. Humans will never do that, i >>>>> think. >> >> Just look at the jet crash in walesville new york. >> We should at least be equipped to meet them on some kind of terms they >> understand and I am sure we do/can. >> How crude dunno :) >> > From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Thu Jul 4 15:55:53 2013 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:55:53 -0700 Subject: OFF: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <51D53A75.4080402@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Folks... Um...if I might interrupt normal programming for a second, and ask the techies here a simple (?) question. We're moving house here in a month, and the new place has a nice, but fairly compact living room.? We would like to avoid cluttering up the place with racks of old CDs and such, and switch to all digital music listening (I have all my music in AAC already, so I generally listen tethered to the computer or on the fly with an old 8GB iPod, sometimes plugged into the car console through a male-male 3.5" headphone cable.)? So I'm talking about my Mom's music collection, which while only a tiny fraction of the size of my own, is still fairly extensive. I don't follow tech. developments AT ALL except for very basic trends, so I don't even know where to start searching. All I really want is a simple "Home stereo component version of a large-ish iPod."? I don't want it to be wireless, I don't want (need) it to have video- or game- functionality at all.? I don't want (need) it to have a drawer to load a CD (either for playing or ripping).? I just want it to be a hard storage unit with an ISB outlet that will allow for quick transfer of new files via memory stick, or semi-permanent read access from an additional larger portable external drive.? The storage doesn't need to be giant, maybe 100-200 GB.? What I want is just a really nice, simple, easy, interface for reading/searching through a vast library of music, with all the sorts of normal iPod features (playlists, shuffle play, organizing music by title/artist/style/etc), and a really nice display panel of some size that will face front and display current title/artist/album art/time-progress during play.? Presumably, the output would be a simple RCA pair going to the AUX port of a normal stereo receiver.? Maybe an optional 3.5mm jack in addition.? Maybe a simple remote to pause, change output volume, forward/backward, not necessary to have all the search functions on the remote (as would be on the module itself).? That is, I don't need a screen interface on the remote, but if it has that and is not ridiculously expensive, fine. I'm afraid that many of these kinds of devices will be loaded up with EVERY POSSIBLE interface known to man and therefore be unnecessarily expensive.? King of All Media/Connects to everything in the whole neighborhood type nonsense.? I will do all my music library work on this desktop computer - I don't need this to link to anything that I haven't already prepared for quick playback.? I don't need it to stream anything ever.? I just want the interface to have a really nice display and be easy to use.? Otherwise, I want it to be stupid.? :) Any hints?? Who makes this device?? Does it cost less than $400? Thanks!?? Keith H. (State College PA) P.S.? Back on topic (HW):? Planning to hit Philly and DC, and then maybe Toronto and Cleveland, or perhaps one of the other NE instead (depending on timing/work). From hawkfan at RATSAUCE.CO.UK Fri Jul 5 12:55:27 2013 From: hawkfan at RATSAUCE.CO.UK (John Rennie) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 17:55:27 +0100 Subject: Digital Music Server advice Message-ID: There are lots of ways you could do this. If you like using an iPod the easiest solution would be to get a iPad Mini, or even a full iPad. The latter would be expensive, but IIRC you can still buy the older model(s) of iPad quite cheaply. I'm not a Macophile, so I have no personal experience of how well this would work, but I've used an Android tablet for this (a Nexus 7) and it works very well. On my Android tablet I use XBMC as my media player - I'm fairly certain this is available for iOS as well, or of course you could use the media stuff built into iOS. But my much preferred solution is to use a media PC, and even though I'm a non-Macer I use a 2010 Mac Mini (running Windows 7 via Bootcamp). This is absolutely brilliant. The HDMI output hooks up to the TV and I use the headphone socket to run audio through my hi-fi. The Mac audio circuitry seems pretty good and I can't reliably tell the difference between the Mac Mini playing FLACs and my (expensive!) CD player. If you really care about audio quality hook up a decent DAC like the HRT Streamer (http://highresolutiontechnologies.com/music-streamer-ii). The disk in the 2010 Mac Mini is 320GB so there's lots of room for audio. You can also put iTunes on it and have it manage the iPod. I keep music (and videos) on a server that lives in the cupboard under the stairs, and the Mac connects through the wireless network. But then I have loads of films that wouldn't fit on the internal disk. I use XBMC as my media player (same as on the Android tablet). This is available for OSX as well as Windows, or again you could use the player built into OSX. The only drawback is that you won't get a 2010 Mac Mini for under $400, not even on ebay. In the UK they go for around ?350, which is around $525. However if you can stretch that far it's by far the best solution. If the cost is a problem there are various cheaper media PCs around, and there are a lot of Android based systems appearing. A friend has been using the Ouya (http://www.ouya.tv/) as a media player and it's only $99! It's not a patch on a Mac Mini though - buy the Mac and if necessary sell your grandma. JR -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Keith Henderson Sent: 04 July 2013 20:56 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: OFF: Digital Music Server advice Hi Folks... Um...if I might interrupt normal programming for a second, and ask the techies here a simple (?) question. We're moving house here in a month, and the new place has a nice, but fairly compact living room.? We would like to avoid cluttering up the place with racks of old CDs and such, and switch to all digital music listening (I have all my music in AAC already, so I generally listen tethered to the computer or on the fly with an old 8GB iPod, sometimes plugged into the car console through a male-male 3.5" headphone cable.)? So I'm talking about my Mom's music collection, which while only a tiny fraction of the size of my own, is still fairly extensive. I don't follow tech. developments AT ALL except for very basic trends, so I don't even know where to start searching. All I really want is a simple "Home stereo component version of a large-ish iPod."? I don't want it to be wireless, I don't want (need) it to have video- or game- functionality at all.? I don't want (need) it to have a drawer to load a CD (either for playing or ripping).? I just want it to be a hard storage unit with an ISB outlet that will allow for quick transfer of new files via memory stick, or semi-permanent read access from an additional larger portable external drive.? The storage doesn't need to be giant, maybe 100-200 GB.? What I want is just a really nice, simple, easy, interface for reading/searching through a vast library of music, with all the sorts of normal iPod features (playlists, shuffle play, organizing music by title/artist/style/etc), and a really nice display panel of some size that will face front and display current title/artist/album art/time-progress during play.? Presumably, the output would be a simple RCA pair going to the AUX port of a normal stereo receiver.? Maybe an optional 3.5mm jack in addition.? Maybe a simple remote to pause, change output volume, forward/backward, not necessary to have all the search functions on the remote (as would be on the module itself).? That is, I don't need a screen interface on the remote, but if it has that and is not ridiculously expensive, fine. I'm afraid that many of these kinds of devices will be loaded up with EVERY POSSIBLE interface known to man and therefore be unnecessarily expensive.? King of All Media/Connects to everything in the whole neighborhood type nonsense.? I will do all my music library work on this desktop computer - I don't need this to link to anything that I haven't already prepared for quick playback.? I don't need it to stream anything ever.? I just want the interface to have a really nice display and be easy to use.? Otherwise, I want it to be stupid.? :) Any hints?? Who makes this device?? Does it cost less than $400? Thanks!?? Keith H. (State College PA) P.S.? Back on topic (HW):? Planning to hit Philly and DC, and then maybe Toronto and Cleveland, or perhaps one of the other NE instead (depending on timing/work). From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Fri Jul 5 15:14:00 2013 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 12:14:00 -0700 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <01ce79a0$Blat.v3.0.7$733b0866$c248e49cb60@ratsnest> Message-ID: John.... Thanks for trying, but unless I'm mistaken somehow, none of these ideas helps me. >If you like using an iPod I have one, and "like" it, but here I'm just using 'iPod' as any random handheld digital music (only) device, though of course I don't want another one or a tablet version (or Touch)...I want a compact stereo component console with nice forward-facing (!!!) display. Mac Mini (from the image on Wikipedia) has no display at all.? Right?? No good.? The other cheap thing is a game console and a featureless box.? Again, not at all what I want. I don't want audio through the TV.? I can do that already (we have a "smart" WiFi TV, though we have no WiFi).? I suppose I could get one, but I don't really want to use it.? Can't think of any advantage really.? We watch TV on our TV - that's what it is for.? The computer will be in a different room than the TV - I don't want my interface with the music player to not be in the same room as where I listen to it.? So yeah, I could play iTunes via the computer through the WiFi, into the TV and out the soundbar, and maybe have a display on the TV of what's playing (?), but I don't want that.? First, we have two small stereo speakers on the TV/stereo stand that don't link to the TV.? The stereo (and TV) additionally links to the soundbar below (with an A/B/C switch), so we listen to music through two small speakers (mainly treble) in addition to soundbar (adds bass...sounds good together).? I need the digital device to go through RCA cables into the stereo, as I said, then - to get this same setup.? And I watch TV with no sound (ie., sports where you don't need sound, and I hate the announcers 90% of the time, and HATE constant promo-ing during the broadcast) while I listen to music, so I can't use the TV for music, 'cause even if it would play through via a separate "channel" while displaying the TV image (not sure it does that, but who cares), I wouldn't have any music display.? Hence, I need the nice display!!!!!!? That's the whole damn point really.? Plus the RCA cables. Also, I don't want it to run iTunes, it should have its own unique file-managing software.? I don't like iTunes, although I use it for managing stuff on the computer here.? I want it to have a *better* way of reading in music files, displaying them, and choosing stuff based on all the various metadata (artist, style, title, playlist, whatever).? On the computer, I have to go and find something through 8 layers of convoluted sub-directory structure, open it up for use inside iTunes (which takes some nontrivial length of time), in order to play it or do anything.? I want the device I buy to instantly call up and play anything (ie., search on a title/artist name as I do in Spotify*) without having to display a window full of a thousand icons or a million lines of songtitles that I have to scroll through for 10 minutes.? I have a lot of music.? I want the library to be hidden (from the display) at all times that I'm not actively searching for anything.? There shouldn't be any "open" or "closed" music files - they should all be "open" all the time, at least the files in its own internal hard-drive (and preferably those connected to a second hard-drive through the USB in the back, as well). *Spotify on the computer (instead of iTunes) would actually be the way I *would* play music on the computer via the TV (WiFi) if I was going to do this...you can have it load all your personal music files into the Spotify GUI, though I don't like that either; one reason is because it replaces some of your own designated album titles/graphics with what it thinks they should be from its own global library (gives a compilation title/artwork instead of the original source!), and that's stupid.? Only in offline mode would it show the right thing then, and I don't want to have to keep switching back and forth (unplugging the ethernet cable) between "modes." Who makes *this* mythical device?? Anybody? Thanks again!? I appreciate your contribution, seriously.? But I'm just ignorant about stuff available in the marketplace, not completely stupid...I know *exactly* what I want for the reasons I've stated. Keith H. (State College PA) P.S.? Sound quality is not critical...my stuff is not FLAC.? Majority is 192 kbps AAC.? Stereo speakers and soundbar are just ordinary stuff.? Not remotely audophile gear. From stevefreight at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 5 16:07:33 2013 From: stevefreight at GMAIL.COM (Steve Freight) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 21:07:33 +0100 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <1373051640.84084.YahooMailNeo@web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Try this. I know a number of people who have these. http://www.brennan.co.uk/ Steve On 5 July 2013 20:14, Keith Henderson wrote: > John.... > Thanks for trying, but unless I'm mistaken somehow, none of these ideas > helps me. > > >If you like using an iPod > > I have one, and "like" it, but here I'm just using 'iPod' as any random > handheld digital music (only) device, though of course I don't want another > one or a tablet version (or Touch)...I want a compact stereo component > console with nice forward-facing (!!!) display. > > Mac Mini (from the image on Wikipedia) has no display at all. Right? No > good. The other cheap thing is a game console and a featureless box. > Again, not at all what I want. > > I don't want audio through the TV. I can do that already (we have a > "smart" WiFi TV, though we have no WiFi). I suppose I could get one, but I > don't really want to use it. Can't think of any advantage really. We > watch TV on our TV - that's what it is for. The computer will be in a > different room than the TV - I don't want my interface with the music > player to not be in the same room as where I listen to it. So yeah, I > could play iTunes via the computer through the WiFi, into the TV and out > the soundbar, and maybe have a display on the TV of what's playing (?), but > I don't want that. First, we have two small stereo speakers on the > TV/stereo stand that don't link to the TV. The stereo (and TV) > additionally links to the soundbar below (with an A/B/C switch), so we > listen to music through two small speakers (mainly treble) in addition to > soundbar (adds bass...sounds good together). I need the digital device to > go through RCA cables into the > stereo, as I said, then - to get this same setup. And I watch TV with no > sound (ie., sports where you don't need sound, and I hate the announcers > 90% of the time, and HATE constant promo-ing during the broadcast) while I > listen to music, so I can't use the TV for music, 'cause even if it would > play through via a separate "channel" while displaying the TV image (not > sure it does that, but who cares), I wouldn't have any music display. > Hence, I need the nice display!!!!!! That's the whole damn point really. > Plus the RCA cables. > > > Also, I don't want it to run iTunes, it should have its own unique > file-managing software. I don't like iTunes, although I use it for > managing stuff on the computer here. I want it to have a *better* way of > reading in music files, displaying them, and choosing stuff based on all > the various metadata (artist, style, title, playlist, whatever). On the > computer, I have to go and find something through 8 layers of convoluted > sub-directory structure, open it up for use inside iTunes (which takes some > nontrivial length of time), in order to play it or do anything. I want the > device I buy to instantly call up and play anything (ie., search on a > title/artist name as I do in Spotify*) without having to display a window > full of a thousand icons or a million lines of songtitles that I have to > scroll through for 10 minutes. I have a lot of music. I want the library > to be hidden (from the display) at all times that I'm not actively > searching for > anything. There shouldn't be any "open" or "closed" music files - they > should all be "open" all the time, at least the files in its own internal > hard-drive (and preferably those connected to a second hard-drive through > the USB in the back, as well). > > > *Spotify on the computer (instead of iTunes) would actually be the way I > *would* play music on the computer via the TV (WiFi) if I was going to do > this...you can have it load all your personal music files into the Spotify > GUI, though I don't like that either; one reason is because it replaces > some of your own designated album titles/graphics with what it thinks they > should be from its own global library (gives a compilation title/artwork > instead of the original source!), and that's stupid. Only in offline mode > would it show the right thing then, and I don't want to have to keep > switching back and forth (unplugging the ethernet cable) between "modes." > > > Who makes *this* mythical device? Anybody? > > Thanks again! I appreciate your contribution, seriously. But I'm just > ignorant about stuff available in the marketplace, not completely > stupid...I know *exactly* what I want for the reasons I've stated. > > Keith H. (State College PA) > > P.S. Sound quality is not critical...my stuff is not FLAC. Majority is > 192 kbps AAC. Stereo speakers and soundbar are just ordinary stuff. Not > remotely audophile gear. > -- View Steve's Photos of Hawkwind Porcupine Tree and Isle of Wight http://www.flickr.com/photos/venthawktree From cea at CARLAZ.COM Fri Jul 5 16:11:27 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 15:11:27 -0500 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <01ce79a0$Blat.v3.0.7$733b0866$c248e49cb60@ratsnest> Message-ID: I am, well, not exactly a "Macophile" _per_ _se_, but I've used Mac stuff for a long time. :) I put most of the CD collection into iTunes as ALAC files back before we left the UK; I get new music in lossless if possible (converting it to ALAC as necessary) and while I don't _like_ the idea of buying compressed music from Amazon or iTunes, I have gotten a few things from iTunes more recently, just to check out at least. I mean, it's not like I'm usually listening on the world's best speakers, or in otherwise audiophile environments. :D I increasingly use the Apple TV unit as my go-to AV entertainment source. Streaming from the net is nearly impossible on the local connection, but downloading complete files to my computer's hard discs and then streaming those over my perfectly good in-house Wi-Fi is a very good solution -- especially in a house with a 3-year-old (and in which I am the only being who puts away/cares for discs properly!): no physical media to damage. :) I increasingly find myself viewing physical media as clunky and antiquated! ;) What I really need are other wi-fi speaker units that receive from the computer or Apple TV in other rooms, that I can control with my phone. I am already putting a signal everywhere, I just need to be able to exploit it to stream audio in a given location in the house. :) Cheers, Carl On 05 Jul 2013, at 11:55 , John Rennie wrote: > > There are lots of ways you could do this. If you like using an iPod the > easiest solution would be to get a iPad Mini, or even a full iPad. The > latter would be expensive, but IIRC you can still buy the older > model(s) of iPad quite cheaply. > > I'm not a Macophile, so I have no personal experience of how well this > would work, but I've used an Android tablet for this (a Nexus 7) and it > works very well. -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Jul 5 16:16:40 2013 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 16:16:40 -0400 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <1373051640.84084.YahooMailNeo@web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jul 5, 2013, at 3:14 PM, Keith Henderson wrote: > John.... > Thanks for trying, but unless I'm mistaken somehow, none of these ideas helps me. > >> If you like using an iPod > > I have one, and "like" it, but here I'm just using 'iPod' as any random handheld digital music (only) device, though of course I don't want another one or a tablet version (or Touch)...I want a compact stereo component console with nice forward-facing (!!!) display. > > Mac Mini (from the image on Wikipedia) has no display at all. Right? No good. The other cheap thing is a game console and a featureless box. Again, not at all what I want. > > I don't want audio through the TV. I can do that already (we have a "smart" WiFi TV, though we have no WiFi). I suppose I could get one, but I don't really want to use it. Can't think of any advantage really. We watch TV on our TV - that's what it is for. The computer will be in a different room than the TV - I don't want my interface with the music player to not be in the same room as where I listen to it. So yeah, I could play iTunes via the computer through the WiFi, into the TV and out the soundbar, and maybe have a display on the TV of what's playing (?), but I don't want that. First, we have two small stereo speakers on the TV/stereo stand that don't link to the TV. The stereo (and TV) additionally links to the soundbar below (with an A/B/C switch), so we listen to music through two small speakers (mainly treble) in addition to soundbar (adds bass...sounds good together). I need the digital device to go through RCA cables into the > stereo, as I said, then - to get this same setup. And I watch TV with no sound (ie., sports where you don't need sound, and I hate the announcers 90% of the time, and HATE constant promo-ing during the broadcast) while I listen to music, so I can't use the TV for music, 'cause even if it would play through via a separate "channel" while displaying the TV image (not sure it does that, but who cares), I wouldn't have any music display. Hence, I need the nice display!!!!!! That's the whole damn point really. Plus the RCA cables. Part of the problem is that your requirements include "no TV," which hobbles you quite a lot. Most of the cheap things you can cobble together use your TV as a UI (user interface), often leveraging the TV remote control along with it. For you not to use the TV implies the "Mythical Device" (as you put it:) includes its own form of UI. That might be bad because it might force you to use, e.g., some small built-in LCD display coupled to its own music organisation software. As you point out, music software can sometimes be a make-or-break part of the puzzle, like you point out below: > Also, I don't want it to run iTunes, it should have its own unique file-managing software. I don't like iTunes, although I use it for managing stuff on the computer here. I want it to have a *better* way of reading in music files, displaying them, and choosing stuff based on all the various metadata (artist, style, title, playlist, whatever). On the computer, I have to go and find something through 8 layers of convoluted sub-directory structure, open it up for use inside iTunes (which takes some nontrivial length of time), in order to play it or do anything. I want the device I buy to instantly call up and play anything (ie., search on a title/artist name as I do in Spotify*) without having to display a window full of a thousand icons or a million lines of songtitles that I have to scroll through for 10 minutes. I'm not sure you're using iTunes correctly, here (because you can restrict song displays according to various metadata---or at least you could the last time I used it), but point taken. And there's the rub. Some "mythical device", i.e., some off-the-shelf commercial gizmo that someone sells, if I understand you correctly, is likely to suck just as badly from your point of view due to its built-in music organiser software. :-) > I have a lot of music. I want the library to be hidden (from the display) at all times that I'm not actively searching for > anything. There shouldn't be any "open" or "closed" music files - they should all be "open" all the time, at least the files in its own internal hard-drive (and preferably those connected to a second hard-drive through the USB in the back, as well). > > > *Spotify on the computer (instead of iTunes) would actually be the way I *would* play music on the computer via the TV (WiFi) if I was going to do this...you can have it load all your personal music files into the Spotify GUI, though I don't like that either; one reason is because it replaces some of your own designated album titles/graphics with what it thinks they should be from its own global library (gives a compilation title/artwork instead of the original source!), and that's stupid. Only in offline mode would it show the right thing then, and I don't want to have to keep switching back and forth (unplugging the ethernet cable) between "modes." > > > Who makes *this* mythical device? Anybody? I'm not sure anyone makes this mythical device, but what you are describing is very close to the concept of a "media centre" except that you don't want to use the TV (and you don't want to connect it to the network, it seems). If you could overcome your aversion to hooking up to a TV or some kind of display, then you could probably do what you wanted via something along the lines of what John suggested. You wouldn't even have to buy anything as expensive as a Mac Mini. My "media centre" computer cost $35. Well, closer to $51, because I put it in an $8 case and bought an $8 5V 1A power supply for it (it draws about 3.5W), but it was much cheaper than a Mac Mini, and it can still drive an HDMI display at 1080p (digital audio, too), plus provide stereo analogue out on a 3.5 mm jack plug (as well as analogue TV out on RCA composite video). My "media centre" computer is a Raspberry Pi Model B and on it I run Raspbmc, which is a version of the XBMC media centre software for the Raspberry Pi. I connect it to a nearby router via wired ethernet, to make it easy to update the software, plus to put on new content, but you could also use a USB WiFi adapter to network it, too. It is connected to a 1 TB USB hard drive, and has a small capacity SD card to allow it to boot. All my media content is stored on the USB hard drive, although the software also supports storing it on a networked storage device. In my case, I use it for video, although it does support audio, too. (I have also successfully played audio through it via "airplay" [or whatever they call it] from my Mac.) XBMC is very well supported, and has various add-ons to provide functionality (e.g., artwork and lyrics downloads; access to online services). It can be "themed" and it even has UI add-ons that let you control it via a Web browser. > Thanks again! I appreciate your contribution, seriously. But I'm just ignorant about stuff available in the marketplace, not completely stupid...I know *exactly* what I want for the reasons I've stated. > > Keith H. (State College PA) > > P.S. Sound quality is not critical...my stuff is not FLAC. Majority is 192 kbps AAC. Stereo speakers and soundbar are just ordinary stuff. Not remotely audophile gear. The Raspberry Pi has a 3.5 mm analogue audio out onboard (so a 3.5 mm stereo to 2 x RCA cable would be in order). I don't know what the quality is like because I have only heard the HDMI digital audio out. If you have an amplifier with an HDMI input, you could probably connect the Raspberry Pi to it. I'm not advocating you necessarily use a Raspberry Pi, but I do think you are likely to end up something more satisfying of your requirements if you do go down the "media centre" road. That will likely involve some kind of small PC at its heart. You'll probably want something that is fanless (or at least whose fan is very quiet) if you're listening to music. You'll probably want something small, too, so it is unobtrusive in your living room. There are quite a lot of "media centre" applications from which to choose. I hope this helps. Cheers, Paul. From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Jul 5 16:42:55 2013 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 16:42:55 -0400 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <01ce79a0$Blat.v3.0.7$733b0866$c248e49cb60@ratsnest> Message-ID: On Jul 5, 2013, at 12:55 PM, John Rennie wrote: > I use XBMC as my media player (same as on the Android tablet). This is > available for OSX as well as Windows, or again you could use the player > built into OSX. The only drawback is that you won't get a 2010 Mac Mini > for under $400, not even on ebay. In the UK they go for around ?350, > which is around $525. However if you can stretch that far it's by far > the best solution. > > If the cost is a problem there are various cheaper media PCs around, > and there are a lot of Android based systems appearing. A friend has > been using the Ouya (http://www.ouya.tv/) as a media player and it's > only $99! It's not a patch on a Mac Mini though - buy the Mac and if > necessary sell your grandma. Or, instead of selling Granny, buy a Raspberry Pi Model B (at $35 it's cheap enough to buy a spare... or two[*]). I've been using one with Raspbmc (XBMC) for a couple of months now and really like it. It's been rock solid, and, heck, the Raspberry Pi HDMI implementation even supports HDMI-CEC so you can even pass through commands from your TV remote control to it (meaning you can control XBMC using your regular TV remote). The Raspberry Pi has a tiny footprint (about the size of a credit card or thereabouts) and only draws about 3.5 W of power, so it's really easy to hide away and won't break the bank with power consumption. :-) Or, you could buy some low-cost fanless Atom-based tiny PC. Cheers, Paul. [*] Or, with a central XBMC database and networked media storage, you could, in theory, buy a few and deploy them around the house on other TVs so you can start watching something in one room and finish watching it in another. From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Fri Jul 5 18:16:55 2013 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 15:16:55 -0700 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve offers... >Try this. I know a number of people who have these. http://www.brennan.co.uk/ Hey now...this is very much like what I'm looking for.? We're getting somewhere!? :)? (I haven't read the other responses in their entirety just yet, but will soon.? Thanks to everyone for participating.) I like the look of this (stylish and decent forward-facing display), and most importantly the simplicity.? My 80-yr. old technophobic Mom has to operate this thing, and she will likely just mainly use the Random Play function, and this has a one-touch knob random play built in, and I like that. Unfortunately, there are too many negatives for this to be the one solution, but there's hope that another manufacturer has something closer. Negatives include: It's a "Whole Stereo" that I don't need to replace...I only need the digital aspect, and I don't know if this has an output to a real stereo, but that's moot, 'cause we wouldn't keep both (no point...this has an amplifier, speaker output, etc.). Therefore the cost is higher than I would prefer. It's English, and although it would work here with plug adapter only, I'm sure the shipping would be more. It has CD-drive and full ripping capability, and handles all its own track ID with its own library, and I do that myself (and will do it for my Mom). Most importantly, it does not play AAC/MP4, so this would only work for the CDs in my Mom's collection that I haven't ripped yet.? And even if it did accept my files, it has a 60,000 song limit, and believe it or not, that is not large enough for my entire collection (I must be nearing 100,000 if not already past). One page said it had three sizes of hard-disk, 120, 320, and 500 GB, and I would choose the smallest of those for my Mom's collection alone, but on the pricing page they are only offering 320 and 500, so I guess they've stopped making the smaller one.? ? While the display is nice and all, it doesn't show the album artwork, which I've been painstakingly adding to my AAC files for some time now.? I find that odd since this is a std. iPod/Touch/Pad thing. But this is VERY close. Right now, I imagine that the best bet would be to get a large-screen iPod/iTouch device (not sure how large they are - ie. visible/legible from across the room?) or else mini-iPad/tablet, and just plug it in via 3.5mm-RCA adapter to the AUX port of the stereo, and then just prop it up on some kind of mini-guitar rack on top of the BlueRay player we have sitting next to the stereo.? But then my Mom has to learn how to use an Apple product, and she's clueless and I know she won't want to learn.? Also I don't know if it would be OK to just leave the thing plugged in all the time to keep it from having to be constantly recharged.? Maybe that's bad for the Li-ion battery anyway?? Keith From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Fri Jul 5 19:34:41 2013 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 16:34:41 -0700 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <96C5797E-5DBB-4744-AFF5-6C74C737635E@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> Message-ID: Paul said... >I'm not sure you're using iTunes correctly, here (because you can restrict song displays according to various metadata---or at least you could the last time I used it) I'm probably not using iTunes "correctly" *at all* but it doesn't matter to me.? Restricting (and then unrestricting, when whatever I need turns out to be hidden) song displays is not something I want to be doing during simple playback for entertainment purposes.? That isn't any more fun than adding and deleting items from the active library, which is what I do now.? I only leave the files that I'm actively using, checking, manipulating, whatever in the library at any one time....I use iTunes as a working space primarily...it's lousy as a "radio" esp. for someone with so many songs.? Maybe I can import every single song in my archive all at once into the "working library" (I dunno...I never tried), and then manipulate the display to hide most of it in my window, but I don't see how that's any different than just cleaning out the whole thing every once in a while to keep my library display a little less cluttered.? I'm never going to want to just have a single library window full of 100,000 song listings, whether they could be "filtered"? or not.? What's the point of even having it "loaded" into the library unless it's for "working" on it?? To just *play* it, it shouldn't be necessary to constantly load/unload stuff, right?? (For any/all software, not just iTunes.)? Is there something I'm missing?? (It's possible.) I want my player (the one my Mom will also use) to just access and show only what I want to listen to at that particular moment, and keep the library in the background.? iTunes has a couple ways of sorta doing that (miniplayer, CoverFlow view), but then I'm constantly switching back and fourth between these various modes also. Anyway... All those other things you discuss are not things I'm interested in, and my Mom certainly could even fathom.? She has a difficult time changing the channel on the TV, and I can't get her to even TRY to change the A/B/C switcher on the soundbar (which pisses me off, because it's like one goddamn button on the remote - but she can't handle the first-click-only-engages-the-toggle-but-second-click-moves-the-toggle-once-forward*-aspect - this is what we're dealing with!). *however-if-you-take-more-than-five-seconds-of-blinking-you-have-to-reengage-the-toggle! Therefore, I reiterate:? NO TV!? My Mom will NOT play music via computer/WiFi-through our TV.? She couldn't even comprehend such a thing.? :) Thanks...Keith From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Jul 5 21:43:10 2013 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 21:43:10 -0400 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <1373067281.1539.YahooMailNeo@web121606.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jul 5, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Keith Henderson wrote: > Paul said... > > >> I'm not sure you're using iTunes correctly, here (because you can restrict song displays according to various metadata---or at least you could the last time I used it) > > I'm probably not using iTunes "correctly" *at all* but it doesn't matter to me. Restricting (and then unrestricting, when whatever I need turns out to be hidden) song displays is not something I want to be doing during simple playback for entertainment purposes. That isn't any more fun than adding and deleting items from the active library, which is what I do now. I only leave the files that I'm actively using, checking, manipulating, whatever in the library at any one time....I use iTunes as a working space primarily...it's lousy as a "radio" esp. for someone with so many songs. Maybe I can import every single song in my archive all at once into the "working library" (I dunno...I never tried), and then manipulate the display to hide most of it in my window, but I don't see how that's any different than just cleaning out the whole thing every once in a while to keep my library display a little less cluttered. I'm never going to want to just > have a single library window full of 100,000 song listings, whether they could be "filtered" or not. What's the point of even having it "loaded" into the library unless it's for "working" on it? To just *play* it, it shouldn't be necessary to constantly load/unload stuff, right? (For any/all software, not just iTunes.) Is there something I'm missing? (It's possible.) Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting you use iTunes. I'm not actually a big fan of iTunes myself (and it didn't help that they changed the UI recently, making it unfamiliar once more), and wearing my Digital Libraries hat makes me like it even less (poor metadata schema support, etc.). Between playlists, smart playlists, and the browsing/search interface, I'm able to make it mostly work for me, though. But I can see why people wouldn't like it. > I want my player (the one my Mom will also use) to just access and show only what I want to listen to at that particular moment, and keep the library in the background. iTunes has a couple ways of sorta doing that (miniplayer, CoverFlow view), but then I'm constantly switching back and fourth between these various modes also. > > Anyway... > > All those other things you discuss are not things I'm interested in, and my Mom certainly could even fathom. She has a difficult time changing the channel on the TV, and I can't get her to even TRY to change the A/B/C switcher on the soundbar (which pisses me off, because it's like one goddamn button on the remote - but she can't handle the first-click-only-engages-the-toggle-but-second-click-moves-the-toggle-once-forward*-aspect - this is what we're dealing with!). > > *however-if-you-take-more-than-five-seconds-of-blinking-you-have-to-reengage-the-toggle! > > Therefore, I reiterate: NO TV! My Mom will NOT play music via computer/WiFi-through our TV. She couldn't even comprehend such a thing. :) After I sent my suggestions, I saw your message saying your mom, who will also be using it, is 80 years old. Right away, I thought, "well, my idea won't fly," and, as someone who is "tech support" to some folks that have a lot of trouble handling the concept of the "Source" button on the TV remote, I fully understand where you are coming from now. However, I suspect you'll have a lot of trouble finding a system that is simple enough for your mom to be happy with but also powerful enough for you to be happy with, too. That Brennan gizmo sounds more your mom's speed, but probably too limiting for you. And, to be honest, it's not clear to me exactly what you are seeking in a system; if it's hard for you to articulate clearly and simply, it's probably too complicated for your mom to operate. :-) I don't envy you your search. A "media centre" solution is probably the most flexible solution for your needs (and, whether you realise it or not, an iTunes [iPad/iPod/iTouch] based solution connected to the stereo via 3.5 mm-RCA adapter like you identified as being the "best bet" right now in another message is in fact just another "media centre" solution, albeit one using Apple's less than flexible software). However, a "media centre" solution is also probably much more complicated than your mom is willing to mess with. Of course, if your mom enjoys just listening to her music library on shuffle play all the time then you're golden.[*] :-) Good luck! Cheers, Paul. [*] Don't scoff. Remember, Apple launched a successful product called "iPod Shuffle..." :-) From hawkfan at RATSAUCE.CO.UK Sat Jul 6 07:16:18 2013 From: hawkfan at RATSAUCE.CO.UK (John Rennie) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 12:16:18 +0100 Subject: Digital Music Server advice Message-ID: When I'm travelling I use a Nexus 7 tablet in a stand: https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_7_Dock?id=nexus_7_dock The stand provides power and audio output - there's a stereo jack on the stand and the tablet automatically routes audio through the stand when it's docked. This seems pretty close to what you're asking for, except that there isn't room on the Nexus 7 for all the music files so you'd need to read them across the WiFi from some form of NAS. When I'm travelling I stream the music across the internet from my home server, though this is possibly getting a bit nerdy :-) As for simplicity, XBMC runs fine on the N7 and is simple enough for my Mum (80) to use. It manages the library, and will play just about every format of music file. If you want to try other media players then of course many different players are available for Android tablets. You quite liked the Brennan, but I can't see that the Brennan has any advantages over an N7 + stand. Well, the audio circuitry will be better, but then you said that's not such a big issue and the N7 audio circuitry is pretty good. JR -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Keith Henderson Sent: 05 July 2013 20:14 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: Digital Music Server advice John.... Thanks for trying, but unless I'm mistaken somehow, none of these ideas helps me. >If you like using an iPod I have one, and "like" it, but here I'm just using 'iPod' as any random handheld digital music (only) device, though of course I don't want another one or a tablet version (or Touch)...I want a compact stereo component console with nice forward-facing (!!!) display. Mac Mini (from the image on Wikipedia) has no display at all.? Right?? No good.? The other cheap thing is a game console and a featureless box.? Again, not at all what I want. ... From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Sat Jul 6 09:50:37 2013 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 06:50:37 -0700 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <01ce7a3a$Blat.v3.0.7$3d0d69d6$69cc041fc29@ratsnest> Message-ID: John said... >When I'm travelling I use a Nexus 7 tablet in a stand: This looks like a pretty good option.? Cost seems to be about $250 for the 32-GB tablet, and another $50 for the charger unit and dock.? I guess the dock is only made for the tablet to sit vertically (?), whereas I would rather have a "landscape" screen display.? But that's a minor issue as long as the display looks nice, and I figure I can run whatever "app" I want to play music on the tablet within Android (which I know absolutely nothing about, but I'm sure it's easy to catch on...every idiot in the world has these).? :)? (I've never owned a cell, Blackberry, PDA, or tablet...I don't have any friends.)? :) 32GB is a bit small, and of course, I would have to get a WiFi thing for the computer to stream my own personal music over if I wanted to play my own stuff in the living room, but that's OK. So, docking it semi-permanently is OK in terms of protecting the battery?? It knows how to protect itself, right? One other thing... Before I wrote to the list, my very limited search online lead me to a product called Squeezebox - I wasn't sure what this was exactly, but then the first thing I saw was that it was no longer being made (as of 2012), so that's when I decided to just ask the list. Now I've found something called Vortexbox, which looks a little like the Brennan I guess.? However, I have yet to see an image of the display panel when actually lit.? Also, it looks like overkill for my purposes, as it has an even larger TB harddisk, the same CD drive/ripping capability that I don't really need, and is either designed for both audio and video (hence the larger storage), or else there are two different models.? Again, something like $500, so $200 more than a tablet setup.... Anyway, it looks like Vortexbox is a Logitech product, and I think I saw that Squeezebox was discontinued when the company was bought by Logitech, so is this the "replacement"? Whatever...I think I'll gravitate in the mini-tablet direction - I need to join the party at some point, so to speak. Sorry for Bogarting the list for this off-topic discussion.? Anybody hear any good music lately?? I went to see Steve Martin and Edie Brickell earlier this week, and although bluegrass music is not exactly my thing, I was really impressed.? I liked Edie Brickell's stuff in the late 80s (and saw her band back then), and she made a nice writing duo with Martin.? Plus he was really masterful at mixing his comedy side with his serious musical side, and so one was never a distraction to the other.? Wonderful evening of entertainment...and not just for my aforementioned Mom. I also saw Roger Hodgson with a full band.? I've always loved Crime of the Century, and he played all four of "his" songs from that album, plus the usual bigger hits from later on, and a few oddities.? Enjoyable, though everything was played pretty much straight up without stretching out hardly at all. And I liked seeing Nektar again, with the Other Wishbone Ash that I hadn't previously seen.? Unlike Jerry, I thought Nektar put on a pretty decent show, though I also felt like they should have done some of RTF instead of Recycled *again* in its entirety (well, Side One I mean) which they did on the last tour (and just about every time I've seen them - 5 times now??).? But Roye's voice, probably thanks to shorter sets each night as coheadliner, was noticeably better than in past years.? Listen to the live acoustic version of Do You Believe in Magic on that one DVD from Germany (Rockpalast)...for an example of how awful Roye's vocals can get when he's overdone it.? So that was a definite improvement.? Wishbone Ash were pretty good too, though just a "guitar" band with nice bluesy songs.? I know the songs fairly well, mainly Argus...they didn't actually play the entire album (as advertised)...though they played I think 5 of the 7 songs, and scattered throughout the set.? (Will HW do Warrior from beginning to end?? And most curiously, how are they going to play Nik's song?? Or are they going to conveniently "skip" it, and add Motorhead or something?) Keith P.S.? I'm listening to someone named Alison Brown right now, something for my Mom.? I was expecting more banjo-bluegrass, but the song that just came on is full of freaking didgeridoo - it's kinda psychedelic.? Not at ALL what I was expecting.? Who is this person? From hawkfan at RATSAUCE.CO.UK Sat Jul 6 11:48:17 2013 From: hawkfan at RATSAUCE.CO.UK (John Rennie) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 16:48:17 +0100 Subject: Digital Music Server advice Message-ID: >I guess the dock is only made for the tablet to sit vertically No, the tablet sits in the dock in landscape mode. >32GB is a bit small Yes, you'll need to stream the music over WiFi, so you'll need a PC or NAS box running somewhere to store your music. >So, docking it semi-permanently is OK in terms of protecting the battery? Yes, it simply stops charging when the battery reaches 100%. You can leave it permanently charging with no harm to the battery. Re the Sqeezebox: I toyed with the idea of getting one some time ago when it was first released. However you need a server app that runs on a PC/Mac. Also it wasn't clear how much control you get over the library. I haven't looked at the Vortexbox. Before you spend any money grab a copy of XBMC to try on your PC or Mac. It's free! http://xbmc.org/. Re good music: assuming I'm allowed to mention bands other than BOC and Hawkwind, a friend has recently been nagging me to listen to some of the new prog rock that's around, and I have to say I'm very impressed. I suspect most of the bands have listened to a few Porcupine Tree albums, but being influenced by Porcupine Tree is fine by me :-) Try the bands Amplifier (best album is Octopus from a few years ago), Alcest, Anathema, Beardfish, OSI and Baroness. JR -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Keith Henderson Sent: 06 July 2013 14:51 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: Digital Music Server advice John said... >When I'm travelling I use a Nexus 7 tablet in a stand: This looks like a pretty good option.? Cost seems to be about $250 for the 32-GB tablet, and another $50 for the charger unit and dock.? I guess the dock is only made for the tablet to sit vertically (?), whereas I would rather have a "landscape" screen display.? But that's a minor issue as long as the display looks nice, and I figure I can run whatever "app" I want to play music on the tablet within Android (which I know absolutely nothing about, but I'm sure it's easy to catch on...every idiot in the world has these).? :)? (I've never owned a cell, Blackberry, PDA, or tablet...I don't have any friends.)? :) 32GB is a bit small, and of course, I would have to get a WiFi thing for the computer to stream my own personal music over if I wanted to play my own stuff in the living room, but that's OK. So, docking it semi-permanently is OK in terms of protecting the battery?? It knows how to protect itself, right? One other thing... Before I wrote to the list, my very limited search online lead me to a product called Squeezebox - I wasn't sure what this was exactly, but then the first thing I saw was that it was no longer being made (as of 2012), so that's when I decided to just ask the list. Now I've found something called Vortexbox, which looks a little like the Brennan I guess.? However, I have yet to see an image of the display panel when actually lit.? Also, it looks like overkill for my purposes, as it has an even larger TB harddisk, the same CD drive/ripping capability that I don't really need, and is either designed for both audio and video (hence the larger storage), or else there are two different models.? Again, something like $500, so $200 more than a tablet setup.... Anyway, it looks like Vortexbox is a Logitech product, and I think I saw that Squeezebox was discontinued when the company was bought by Logitech, so is this the "replacement"? Whatever...I think I'll gravitate in the mini-tablet direction - I need to join the party at some point, so to speak. Sorry for Bogarting the list for this off-topic discussion.? Anybody hear any good music lately?? I went to see Steve Martin and Edie Brickell earlier this week, and although bluegrass music is not exactly my thing, I was really impressed.? I liked Edie Brickell's stuff in the late 80s (and saw her band back then), and she made a nice writing duo with Martin.? Plus he was really masterful at mixing his comedy side with his serious musical side, and so one was never a distraction to the other.? Wonderful evening of entertainment...and not just for my aforementioned Mom. I also saw Roger Hodgson with a full band.? I've always loved Crime of the Century, and he played all four of "his" songs from that album, plus the usual bigger hits from later on, and a few oddities.? Enjoyable, though everything was played pretty much straight up without stretching out hardly at all. And I liked seeing Nektar again, with the Other Wishbone Ash that I hadn't previously seen.? Unlike Jerry, I thought Nektar put on a pretty decent show, though I also felt like they should have done some of RTF instead of Recycled *again* in its entirety (well, Side One I mean) which they did on the last tour (and just about every time I've seen them - 5 times now??).? But Roye's voice, probably thanks to shorter sets each night as coheadliner, was noticeably better than in past years.? Listen to the live acoustic version of Do You Believe in Magic on that one DVD from Germany (Rockpalast)...for an example of how awful Roye's vocals can get when he's overdone it.? So that was a definite improvement.? Wishbone Ash were pretty good too, though just a "guitar" band with nice bluesy songs.? I know the songs fairly well, mainly Argus...they didn't actually play the entire album (as advertised)...though they played I think 5 of the 7 songs, and scattered throughout the set.? (Will HW do Warrior from beginning to end?? And most curiously, how are they going to play Nik's song?? Or are they going to conveniently "skip" it, and add Motorhead or something?) Keith P.S.? I'm listening to someone named Alison Brown right now, something for my Mom.? I was expecting more banjo-bluegrass, but the song that just came on is full of freaking didgeridoo - it's kinda psychedelic.? Not at ALL what I was expecting.? Who is this person? From jguizar at STNY.RR.COM Sat Jul 6 11:50:49 2013 From: jguizar at STNY.RR.COM (Jerry G) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 11:50:49 -0400 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <1373118637.83628.YahooMailNeo@web121603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Keith, here's a little review on the vortexbox. http://2channelaudio.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/source-control-to-major-tom.html Jerry On 7/6/2013 9:50 AM, Keith Henderson wrote: From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Sat Jul 6 16:43:04 2013 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 16:43:04 -0400 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <01ce7a60$Blat.v3.0.7$3ba2a922$69cac453af1@ratsnest> Message-ID: On Jul 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, John Rennie wrote: >> So, docking it semi-permanently is OK in terms of protecting the battery? > > Yes, it simply stops charging when the battery reaches 100%. You can > leave it permanently charging with no harm to the battery. Actually, running on A/C all the time is bad for the life of the Li-ion battery. It's suggested you run it on battery every once in a while, but avoid lots of full charge/discharge cycles: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-tips-for-extending-lithium-ion-battery-life/289 http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/02/ask-ars-what-is-the-best-way-to-use-an-li-ion-battery/ http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html However, Li-ion life is a bit of a moot point if you intend to use it as a stationary gadget all of the time. :-) Cheers, Paul. From cea at CARLAZ.COM Sat Jul 6 23:37:07 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 22:37:07 -0500 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <1373067281.1539.YahooMailNeo@web121606.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 05 Jul 2013, at 18:34 , Keith Henderson wrote: > > I'm never going to want to just > have a single library window full of 100,000 song listings Well, I don't have that, but my current library does have just over 42k A/V items. The various "smart playlists", etc. set up over time do a very good job of breaking things down into conveniently accessible chunks for me ... if I want. I would not want to be understood as saying "iTunes is the best of all possible worlds", because I can easily imagine improvements -- but, at the same time, I have not yet imagined a radically different approach that would do the basic job _so_ much better, nor have I seen something so imagined by others. But I look forward to the day when it happens. :) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From cea at CARLAZ.COM Sat Jul 6 23:40:19 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 22:40:19 -0500 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <1373118637.83628.YahooMailNeo@web121603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 06 Jul 2013, at 08:50 , Keith Henderson wrote: > > I liked Edie Brickell's stuff in the late 80s (and saw her band back then), and she made a nice writing duo with Martin. I remain in love with the solo in "What I Am" -- the most overtly Garcia-esque solo not played by Garcia sometime in '77-'78. ;) And done in the studio recording with some random Boss Envelope filter since that's all the guitarist could afford at the time (according to the stories I've heard, which my be untrue, but which entertain me sufficiently that I have chosen to accept them ;) ). Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From cea at CARLAZ.COM Sat Jul 6 23:44:22 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 22:44:22 -0500 Subject: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <1373118637.83628.YahooMailNeo@web121603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 06 Jul 2013, at 08:50 , Keith Henderson wrote: > > I'm listening to someone named Alison Brown right now, something for my Mom. I was expecting more banjo-bluegrass, but the song that just came on is full of freaking didgeridoo - it's kinda psychedelic. Not at ALL what I was expecting. Who is this person? Comes out of the contemporary bluegrass scene -- but that's a fairly diverse place! Saw her at Telluride Bluegrass Festival probably 10 or 12 years ago. Great player. Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Sun Jul 7 14:35:49 2013 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2013 11:35:49 -0700 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey folx... So I've started into ripping my Mom's collection into iTunes in order to have that ready for when we move (then we can pack all her CDs and not have to unpack them even).? I can then worry about getting the new "player" whenever we're already in there. First off, thanks to Paul's prodding, I figured out how to create a second library (shift-icon click) for my Mom's music, to keep it uncluttered from the files I previously had open for my own use.? So that was a nice thing to learn, although this was really the first time I ever needed to do that. But I'm still completely flabbergasted by iTunes and its folder-(mis)managing routines.? I suffered from this problem a couple years ago when I was loading in my personal collection, but haven't done much ripping recently.? But now, it's baaaaaacccckk. So, I want to arrange my own "trunk" subdirectory structure* on my multiple external drives without interference from iTunes.? Yet I want iTunes to do "corrections" for me as I do operations inside its software.? That is, after I've already ripped/loaded something, if I then change the name/spelling of the artist/title/whatever, the actual filename in the directory structure is changed to match.? Up until a few minutes ago, I thought that wa controlled by clicking the "Keep iTunes Media folder organized" button inside the Edit-Preferences-Advanced window.? And I did an experiment where that was seemingly borne out.? But then I just did it again, and that time it *wouldn't* change my subdirectory name to reflect the change I made in the artist name, no matter whether this was clicked.? Weird.? Must be something else driving it then?? But what? *I normally create all my subdirectories "above" artist name (with Explorer or whatever), and then let iTunes only create "artist" and "album" subdirectories underneath that, and then I just remember to go back and switch Edit-Preferences-Folder Location manually each time I put something "different" in the drawer. But the main issue is...****sometimes**** (but not usually) iTunes will decide that it ABSOLUTELY MUST add in a totally unnecessary* intermediate subdirectory called "Music" in between my chosen location and the artist subdirectory.? What's maddening is that this has happened a bunch of times (today but not yesterday, and occasionally in the past), but I can't imagine what is different about what I have done from one moment/day to the next, so what even controls this????? And then if I manually move the music up one level back to where it should be, delete the stupid empty "Music" folder, and then close (link broken to the trackfiles, of course) and reopen the songs back inside iTunes, it then immediately puts the damn things *back* into the nonsense Music folder.? Even after I have rebooted the computer. *I know, I know, some people (not me) use iTunes for other types of Media, so... (I also have an on-going "war" with iTunes over the way it separates out Compilations inside subdirectories, and before I think I just gave up and put all my compilations together in one lone V/A folder, 'cause I couldn't come up with any other way...so now I have that problem as well again.) Now at some point in the past, I managed to solve this problem (though I never understood what is controlling it in the first place) without re-ripping them (ie., I moved them and got iTunes to leave them be finally), but I can't remember how I did it (or maybe I never learned...perhaps it just got tired of my screaming at it and stopped moving them).? Right now, I want to strangle whoever came up with this nonsense in the first place.? 'Cause I keep doing heuristic experiments and I'm getting different results for seemingly identical operations. So my question...what the hell *really* controls the subdirectory structure and filename editing?? And why can't I keep my sh*t where I want/put it? And why do "help" pages and community forum archives never provide satisfactory answers?? :) Thanks....plus it's hot and I have a short fuse under such circumstances...Keith From cea at CARLAZ.COM Mon Jul 8 09:03:24 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 08:03:24 -0500 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: <1373222149.67628.YahooMailNeo@web121601.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 07 Jul 2013, at 13:35 , Keith Henderson wrote: > > So my question...what the hell *really* controls the subdirectory structure and filename editing? And why can't I keep my sh*t where I want/put it? I think the short answer is that iTunes controls this, and your desire to control the location and form its directories is fundamentally at odds with (what was) Steve Jobs's desire to make everything increasingly seamless and invisible. (Witness, for example, iOS ....) The Apple philosophy is (or at least seems to have been up to now) that you don't need to know where things "really" are (not that they are "really" there in the "file system" as such, but it's a familiar abstraction to long-time computer users). So while I can appreciate the desire of the individual to exercise detailed control over the traditional UNIX-style directories etc. that iTunes uses to place its UNIX-style data files, etc., iTunes was not designed with the interests of such a user in mind, and you might as well give up on it. For practical purposes, I think you have 2 choices regarding iTunes: either use it as-is, or not ;) and find some other media-organizer/player that annoys you less (though to get one that does _exactly_ what you want, you would probably have to write it yourself!). Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From altbouch at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 8 09:25:02 2013 From: altbouch at GMAIL.COM (Albert Bouchard) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 09:25:02 -0400 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: <4CF53782-F2A3-479F-A4B5-1ABD1AFCE97B@carlaz.com> Message-ID: Forgive me if this answer has already been given but iTunes lets you specify where you want your files to be stored. In the preferences menu under advanced you can specify where you want your files to be kept. It can be anywhere you want. Hope this helps, Al On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > On 07 Jul 2013, at 13:35 , Keith Henderson wrote: >> >> So my question...what the hell *really* controls the subdirectory structure and filename editing? And why can't I keep my sh*t where I want/put it? > > I think the short answer is that iTunes controls this, and your desire to control the location and form its directories is fundamentally at odds with (what was) Steve Jobs's desire to make everything increasingly seamless and invisible. (Witness, for example, iOS ....) > > The Apple philosophy is (or at least seems to have been up to now) that you don't need to know where things "really" are (not that they are "really" there in the "file system" as such, but it's a familiar abstraction to long-time computer users). So while I can appreciate the desire of the individual to exercise detailed control over the traditional UNIX-style directories etc. that iTunes uses to place its UNIX-style data files, etc., iTunes was not designed with the interests of such a user in mind, and you might as well give up on it. > > For practical purposes, I think you have 2 choices regarding iTunes: either use it as-is, or not ;) and find some other media-organizer/player that annoys you less (though to get one that does _exactly_ what you want, you would probably have to write it yourself!). > > Cheers, > Carl > > -- > Carl Edlund Anderson > http://www.carlaz.com/ From smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 8 09:33:09 2013 From: smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Smith) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 21:33:09 +0800 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: <826DD653-5E3F-4C8B-AD42-E5F6CB2BA448@gmail.com> Message-ID: It does, but I agree that it is better to get rid of it and find something more flexible. I might be a cynic but it seems that iTunes main purpose is to direct your money in Apple's direction. On 8 July 2013 21:25, Albert Bouchard wrote: > Forgive me if this answer has already been given but iTunes lets you > specify where you want your files to be stored. In the preferences menu > under advanced you can specify where you want your files to be kept. It can > be anywhere you want. > Hope this helps, > Al > > On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > > > On 07 Jul 2013, at 13:35 , Keith Henderson wrote: > >> > >> So my question...what the hell *really* controls the subdirectory > structure and filename editing? And why can't I keep my sh*t where I > want/put it? > > > > I think the short answer is that iTunes controls this, and your desire > to control the location and form its directories is fundamentally at odds > with (what was) Steve Jobs's desire to make everything increasingly > seamless and invisible. (Witness, for example, iOS ....) > > > > The Apple philosophy is (or at least seems to have been up to now) that > you don't need to know where things "really" are (not that they are > "really" there in the "file system" as such, but it's a familiar > abstraction to long-time computer users). So while I can appreciate the > desire of the individual to exercise detailed control over the traditional > UNIX-style directories etc. that iTunes uses to place its UNIX-style data > files, etc., iTunes was not designed with the interests of such a user in > mind, and you might as well give up on it. > > > > For practical purposes, I think you have 2 choices regarding iTunes: > either use it as-is, or not ;) and find some other media-organizer/player > that annoys you less (though to get one that does _exactly_ what you want, > you would probably have to write it yourself!). > > > > Cheers, > > Carl > > > > -- > > Carl Edlund Anderson > > http://www.carlaz.com/ > From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Mon Jul 8 09:47:54 2013 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 09:47:54 -0400 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: <826DD653-5E3F-4C8B-AD42-E5F6CB2BA448@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Albert Bouchard wrote: > Forgive me if this answer has already been given but iTunes lets you specify where you want your files to be stored. In the preferences menu under advanced you can specify where you want your files to be kept. It can be anywhere you want. I believe that setting only allows you to change where the root directory of your files live. Keith's complaint is (as I understand it) that the arrangement of the lower-level subdirectories isn't to his liking, and so changing the "iTunes Media folder location" wouldn't help with that. You might be able to get completely manual control (like Keith seems to want) if you changed that setting AND unchecked both "Keep iTunes Media folder organised" and "Copy files to iTunes Media folder when adding to library." Unchecking the latter would mean (I believe) that iTunes would retain a pointer to the original location, which could be whatever OCD arrangement you fancied. :-) (Unchecking the former would presumably prevent iTunes from moving things around when you subsequently edited the metadata.) Of course, unchecking these means iTunes would easily lose track of content if you happened to move the songs after you'd added them to the iTunes Library, and so probably isn't entirely wise to do so. Like Carl says, iTunes doesn't really expect you to worry where specifically your music lives, and you're supposed to impose order on it via playlists and searching/browsing restrictions, not by moving the files about. Having read the Walter Isaacson biography of Steve Jobs, I understand the Jobsian philosophy is "Steve knows best, not the end-user, and we'll do things Steve's way thank you very much." That approach works out fine, except when it doesn't. ;-) Cheers, Paul. > > Hope this helps, > Al > > On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > >> On 07 Jul 2013, at 13:35 , Keith Henderson wrote: >>> >>> So my question...what the hell *really* controls the subdirectory structure and filename editing? And why can't I keep my sh*t where I want/put it? >> >> I think the short answer is that iTunes controls this, and your desire to control the location and form its directories is fundamentally at odds with (what was) Steve Jobs's desire to make everything increasingly seamless and invisible. (Witness, for example, iOS ....) >> >> The Apple philosophy is (or at least seems to have been up to now) that you don't need to know where things "really" are (not that they are "really" there in the "file system" as such, but it's a familiar abstraction to long-time computer users). So while I can appreciate the desire of the individual to exercise detailed control over the traditional UNIX-style directories etc. that iTunes uses to place its UNIX-style data files, etc., iTunes was not designed with the interests of such a user in mind, and you might as well give up on it. >> >> For practical purposes, I think you have 2 choices regarding iTunes: either use it as-is, or not ;) and find some other media-organizer/player that annoys you less (though to get one that does _exactly_ what you want, you would probably have to write it yourself!). >> >> Cheers, >> Carl >> >> -- >> Carl Edlund Anderson >> http://www.carlaz.com/ > From fofp at STAFFMAIL.ED.AC.UK Mon Jul 8 10:52:25 2013 From: fofp at STAFFMAIL.ED.AC.UK (Mike Holmes) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 15:52:25 +0100 Subject: OFF: Digital Music Server advice In-Reply-To: <1372967753.64157.YahooMailNeo@web121606.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 04/07/2013 20:55, Keith Henderson wrote: > Hi Folks... > > Um...if I might interrupt normal programming for a second, and ask the techies here a simple (?) question. > > We're moving house here in a month, and the new place has a nice, but fairly compact living room. We would like to avoid cluttering up the place with racks of old CDs and such, and switch to all digital music listening (I have all my music in AAC already, so I generally listen tethered to the computer or on the fly with an old 8GB iPod, sometimes plugged into the car console through a male-male 3.5" headphone cable.) So I'm talking about my Mom's music collection, which while only a tiny fraction of the size of my own, is still fairly extensive. > > I don't follow tech. developments AT ALL except for very basic trends, so I don't even know where to start searching. > > All I really want is a simple "Home stereo component version of a large-ish iPod." I don't want it to be wireless, I don't want (need) it to have video- or game- functionality at all. I don't want (need) it to have a drawer to load a CD (either for playing or ripping). I just want it to be a hard storage unit with an ISB outlet that will allow for quick transfer of new files via memory stick, or semi-permanent read access from an additional larger portable external drive. The storage doesn't need to be giant, maybe 100-200 GB. What I want is just a really nice, simple, easy, interface for reading/searching through a vast library of music, with all the sorts of normal iPod features (playlists, shuffle play, organizing music by title/artist/style/etc), and a really nice display panel of some size that will face front and display current title/artist/album art/time-progress during play. Presumably, the output would be a simple RCA pair going to > the AUX port of a normal stereo receiver. Maybe an optional 3.5mm jack in addition. Maybe a simple remote to pause, change output volume, forward/backward, not necessary to have all the search functions on the remote (as would be on the module itself). That is, I don't need a screen interface on the remote, but if it has that and is not ridiculously expensive, fine. > > I'm afraid that many of these kinds of devices will be loaded up with EVERY POSSIBLE interface known to man and therefore be unnecessarily expensive. King of All Media/Connects to everything in the whole neighborhood type nonsense. I will do all my music library work on this desktop computer - I don't need this to link to anything that I haven't already prepared for quick playback. I don't need it to stream anything ever. I just want the interface to have a really nice display and be easy to use. Otherwise, I want it to be stupid. :) > > Any hints? Who makes this device? Does it cost less than $400? I'm about to use my old Panasonic DMRE100 personal video recorder for exactly this. It had an analog tuner, so now that the UK has gone digital, it will no longer receive TV signals (*). The internal hard disk however can take MP3 files. I can put them on to it either by copying from its internal DVD drive, or by plugging in an SD card which I've previously written files to using my laptop. Its display will simply be my TV, from which I'll select albums, tracks or playlists using the remote. I'll use the RCA outputs at the back to run a lead to my stereo amplifier. That would cover your requirements I think and it'd have advantages as a solution if your mum is already used to using PVR video technology. It'll also play CDs or DVDs You should be able to get a PVR something like that at 400 Dollars new. I'd bet you could get something secondhand on Ebay for 100 Dollars. FoFP * To replace its video functionality I've bought the Panasonic BWT800 -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From cea at CARLAZ.COM Mon Jul 8 11:36:46 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 10:36:46 -0500 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While not Jobs-worshipping loony :) I am OK with not caring how and where iTunes does its stuff as long as it does it reasonably well. After all, the UNIX (or Windows) file system itself is intended as a human-readable abstraction, as is the iTunes UI. For largely historical reasons, the latter has to sit atop the former at present, but it's simplest for the human reader to largely ignore the former. (If I need one if iTunes's media files, I can just tell the app to "Show in Finder".) There are some odd design, UI, etc. choices in iTunes, but not a lot worse than in other A/V management/player solutions I've looked at. I think in all cases about just finding the software that least annoys you (for whatever your criteria are) or coding your own Fully Awesome Solution (which will, as they all do, still annoy someone else, somewhere else! :) ). Cheers, Carl Sent from my iPhone On Jul 8, 2013, at 8:47, Paul Mather wrote: > On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Albert Bouchard wrote: > >> Forgive me if this answer has already been given but iTunes lets you specify where you want your files to be stored. In the preferences menu under advanced you can specify where you want your files to be kept. It can be anywhere you want. > > I believe that setting only allows you to change where the root directory of your files live. Keith's complaint is (as I understand it) that the arrangement of the lower-level subdirectories isn't to his liking, and so changing the "iTunes Media folder location" wouldn't help with that. > > You might be able to get completely manual control (like Keith seems to want) if you changed that setting AND unchecked both "Keep iTunes Media folder organised" and "Copy files to iTunes Media folder when adding to library." Unchecking the latter would mean (I believe) that iTunes would retain a pointer to the original location, which could be whatever OCD arrangement you fancied. :-) (Unchecking the former would presumably prevent iTunes from moving things around when you subsequently edited the metadata.) > > Of course, unchecking these means iTunes would easily lose track of content if you happened to move the songs after you'd added them to the iTunes Library, and so probably isn't entirely wise to do so. Like Carl says, iTunes doesn't really expect you to worry where specifically your music lives, and you're supposed to impose order on it via playlists and searching/browsing restrictions, not by moving the files about. Having read the Walter Isaacson biography of Steve Jobs, I understand the Jobsian philosophy is "Steve knows best, not the end-user, and we'll do things Steve's way thank you very much." That approach works out fine, except when it doesn't. ;-) > > Cheers, > > Paul. > >> >> Hope this helps, >> Al >> >> On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: >> >>> On 07 Jul 2013, at 13:35 , Keith Henderson wrote: >>>> >>>> So my question...what the hell *really* controls the subdirectory structure and filename editing? And why can't I keep my sh*t where I want/put it? >>> >>> I think the short answer is that iTunes controls this, and your desire to control the location and form its directories is fundamentally at odds with (what was) Steve Jobs's desire to make everything increasingly seamless and invisible. (Witness, for example, iOS ....) >>> >>> The Apple philosophy is (or at least seems to have been up to now) that you don't need to know where things "really" are (not that they are "really" there in the "file system" as such, but it's a familiar abstraction to long-time computer users). So while I can appreciate the desire of the individual to exercise detailed control over the traditional UNIX-style directories etc. that iTunes uses to place its UNIX-style data files, etc., iTunes was not designed with the interests of such a user in mind, and you might as well give up on it. >>> >>> For practical purposes, I think you have 2 choices regarding iTunes: either use it as-is, or not ;) and find some other media-organizer/player that annoys you less (though to get one that does _exactly_ what you want, you would probably have to write it yourself!). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Carl >>> >>> -- >>> Carl Edlund Anderson >>> http://www.carlaz.com/ >> > From cea at CARLAZ.COM Mon Jul 8 11:47:13 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 10:47:13 -0500 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think Apple would _like_ iTunes to do that, but I question whether it does. I've used iTunes since it was Soundjam, and it has directed relatively small quantities of my money towards Apple. Excepting that I live in a part of the world where physical media are almost guaranteed to get stolen in the post, I would probably never buy any music from iTunes -- and though I now fully prefer digital to physical media, I tend to get it lossless from Bandcamp or CDBaby. Films and TV are another matter; having a small child makes taking scratch-able discs out of the equation very attractive in any case! ;) But even assuming I loved the idea of all my music being in DRM-rich 256kbps AACs, the iTMS is pretty rubbish at directing you towards music you might also like or even making it very easy browse around or find things. As an A/V platform, iTunes is pretty much OK. As a means of separating me from my money, it could use a lot of work. ;) Cheers, Carl Sent from my iPhone On Jul 8, 2013, at 8:33, Jonathan Smith wrote: > It does, but I agree that it is better to get rid of it and find something > more flexible. I might be a cynic but it seems that iTunes main purpose > is to direct your money in Apple's direction. > > > On 8 July 2013 21:25, Albert Bouchard wrote: > >> Forgive me if this answer has already been given but iTunes lets you >> specify where you want your files to be stored. In the preferences menu >> under advanced you can specify where you want your files to be kept. It can >> be anywhere you want. >> Hope this helps, >> Al >> >> On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: >> >>> On 07 Jul 2013, at 13:35 , Keith Henderson wrote: >>>> >>>> So my question...what the hell *really* controls the subdirectory >> structure and filename editing? And why can't I keep my sh*t where I >> want/put it? >>> >>> I think the short answer is that iTunes controls this, and your desire >> to control the location and form its directories is fundamentally at odds >> with (what was) Steve Jobs's desire to make everything increasingly >> seamless and invisible. (Witness, for example, iOS ....) >>> >>> The Apple philosophy is (or at least seems to have been up to now) that >> you don't need to know where things "really" are (not that they are >> "really" there in the "file system" as such, but it's a familiar >> abstraction to long-time computer users). So while I can appreciate the >> desire of the individual to exercise detailed control over the traditional >> UNIX-style directories etc. that iTunes uses to place its UNIX-style data >> files, etc., iTunes was not designed with the interests of such a user in >> mind, and you might as well give up on it. >>> >>> For practical purposes, I think you have 2 choices regarding iTunes: >> either use it as-is, or not ;) and find some other media-organizer/player >> that annoys you less (though to get one that does _exactly_ what you want, >> you would probably have to write it yourself!). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Carl >>> >>> -- >>> Carl Edlund Anderson >>> http://www.carlaz.com/ >> > From smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 8 22:09:18 2013 From: smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Smith) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 10:09:18 +0800 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: <83B42CB6-E162-48B5-B172-AF17AD54E840@carlaz.com> Message-ID: I like Apple computers for music, but I hate the way iTunes takes over and the Apple Store keeps popping up. I dislike the way iTunes doesn't play FLAC files, although I believe you can make it do that if you try. If you listen to headphones there is software that sounds better too and plays all formats. I am sure iTunes is fine if you can get used to it. On 8 July 2013 23:47, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > I think Apple would _like_ iTunes to do that, but I question whether it > does. I've used iTunes since it was Soundjam, and it has directed > relatively small quantities of my money towards Apple. Excepting that I > live in a part of the world where physical media are almost guaranteed to > get stolen in the post, I would probably never buy any music from iTunes -- > and though I now fully prefer digital to physical media, I tend to get it > lossless from Bandcamp or CDBaby. Films and TV are another matter; having a > small child makes taking scratch-able discs out of the equation very > attractive in any case! ;) > > But even assuming I loved the idea of all my music being in DRM-rich > 256kbps AACs, the iTMS is pretty rubbish at directing you towards music you > might also like or even making it very easy browse around or find things. > As an A/V platform, iTunes is pretty much OK. As a means of separating me > from my money, it could use a lot of work. ;) > > Cheers, > Carl > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 8, 2013, at 8:33, Jonathan Smith wrote: > > > It does, but I agree that it is better to get rid of it and find > something > > more flexible. I might be a cynic but it seems that iTunes main > purpose > > is to direct your money in Apple's direction. > > > > > > On 8 July 2013 21:25, Albert Bouchard wrote: > > > >> Forgive me if this answer has already been given but iTunes lets you > >> specify where you want your files to be stored. In the preferences menu > >> under advanced you can specify where you want your files to be kept. It > can > >> be anywhere you want. > >> Hope this helps, > >> Al > >> > >> On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > >> > >>> On 07 Jul 2013, at 13:35 , Keith Henderson > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> So my question...what the hell *really* controls the subdirectory > >> structure and filename editing? And why can't I keep my sh*t where I > >> want/put it? > >>> > >>> I think the short answer is that iTunes controls this, and your desire > >> to control the location and form its directories is fundamentally at > odds > >> with (what was) Steve Jobs's desire to make everything increasingly > >> seamless and invisible. (Witness, for example, iOS ....) > >>> > >>> The Apple philosophy is (or at least seems to have been up to now) that > >> you don't need to know where things "really" are (not that they are > >> "really" there in the "file system" as such, but it's a familiar > >> abstraction to long-time computer users). So while I can appreciate the > >> desire of the individual to exercise detailed control over the > traditional > >> UNIX-style directories etc. that iTunes uses to place its UNIX-style > data > >> files, etc., iTunes was not designed with the interests of such a user > in > >> mind, and you might as well give up on it. > >>> > >>> For practical purposes, I think you have 2 choices regarding iTunes: > >> either use it as-is, or not ;) and find some other > media-organizer/player > >> that annoys you less (though to get one that does _exactly_ what you > want, > >> you would probably have to write it yourself!). > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Carl > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Carl Edlund Anderson > >>> http://www.carlaz.com/ > >> > > > From cea at CARLAZ.COM Tue Jul 9 08:34:15 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 07:34:15 -0500 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 08 Jul 2013, at 21:09 , Jonathan Smith wrote: > > I like Apple computers for music, but I hate the way iTunes takes over and > the Apple Store keeps popping up. I dislike the way iTunes doesn't play > FLAC files, although I believe you can make it do that if you try. If you > listen to headphones there is software that sounds better too and plays all > formats. Hmm, the iTunes Store never "pops up" for me, but it is possible that I turned such a feature off long ago. The lack of support for FLAC _is_ more annoying; that's surely just Apple pushing people towards ALAC, which presumably they intend to sell via iTMS someday. You _can_ kludge iTunes into playing FLACs, but I always found it a bit tedious and have given up bothering. I've become accustomed to converting FLACs to ALAC with XLD, though that involves a certain amount of tedium as well. Unfortunately, I don't have a listening environment that would probably make better reproduction noticeable. :P In fact, virtually all of my listening involves slurping things out of iTunes and into my phone, so I can listen to AACs through the car stereo while driving! I am trying to imagine a life in which I might actually have time to justify sitting down and listening to 30-60 minutes of music in the house ... but such a life seems sufficiently far away that the available technology may have changed significantly by then. Actually, the biggest annoyance with iTunes for me is that my library is too large for the iTunes Match service! It would be nice to be able to call up anything (with, albeit, a bit of a wait while it downloads). Andy Gilham (ex of BOC-L) has that, but the wi-fi in his flat is too dodgy to make it work seamlessly, while he also lacks a local mobile phone plan, which prevents it from working away from his flat (unless he's somewhere with free wi-fi, of which there are admittedly lots of places). But I have good in-house wi-fi and lots of unused data allowance on my mobile phone plan, so it would work quite well for me -- IF I didn't already exceed the library size limit by more than 15k songs. I feel, in any case, like we are very much in the infancy of digital A/V entertainment still. People are trying to work out how to sell, store, distribute, etc. audio and video entertainment. What things do people feel like buying outright, and one things do they want to rent or subscribe to? How does it work in your house, when your walking or driving around, traveling, etc.? Really, the attempts to deal with all this so far are fairly primitive. The very fact that we're sitting here talking about "How can we sensibly play digital audio in our houses?" shows how primitive it is! ;) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 9 08:52:14 2013 From: smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Smith) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 20:52:14 +0800 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: <13D7388B-0D76-4081-B314-FBAF13A7390F@carlaz.com> Message-ID: iTunes Store can be switched off. I just find iTunes is rather bloated. I only really use it for ripping CDs on my Mac as I can't anything like EAC. XLD is quite a nice little programme. I know where the files have gone with iTunes (usually), if I need them. As I don't only use Apple devices I would rather just have files in folders. I assume that somebody (hopefully not Apple) will establish some standard with digital AV sales sooner or later. Torrents are most people's answer! On 9 July 2013 20:34, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > On 08 Jul 2013, at 21:09 , Jonathan Smith wrote: > > > > I like Apple computers for music, but I hate the way iTunes takes over > and > > the Apple Store keeps popping up. I dislike the way iTunes doesn't play > > FLAC files, although I believe you can make it do that if you try. If you > > listen to headphones there is software that sounds better too and plays > all > > formats. > > Hmm, the iTunes Store never "pops up" for me, but it is possible that I > turned such a feature off long ago. > > The lack of support for FLAC _is_ more annoying; that's surely just Apple > pushing people towards ALAC, which presumably they intend to sell via iTMS > someday. You _can_ kludge iTunes into playing FLACs, but I always found it > a bit tedious and have given up bothering. I've become accustomed to > converting FLACs to ALAC with XLD, though that involves a certain amount of > tedium as well. > > Unfortunately, I don't have a listening environment that would probably > make better reproduction noticeable. :P In fact, virtually all of my > listening involves slurping things out of iTunes and into my phone, so I > can listen to AACs through the car stereo while driving! I am trying to > imagine a life in which I might actually have time to justify sitting down > and listening to 30-60 minutes of music in the house ... but such a life > seems sufficiently far away that the available technology may have changed > significantly by then. > > Actually, the biggest annoyance with iTunes for me is that my library is > too large for the iTunes Match service! It would be nice to be able to call > up anything (with, albeit, a bit of a wait while it downloads). Andy > Gilham (ex of BOC-L) has that, but the wi-fi in his flat is too dodgy to > make it work seamlessly, while he also lacks a local mobile phone plan, > which prevents it from working away from his flat (unless he's somewhere > with free wi-fi, of which there are admittedly lots of places). But I have > good in-house wi-fi and lots of unused data allowance on my mobile phone > plan, so it would work quite well for me -- IF I didn't already exceed the > library size limit by more than 15k songs. > > I feel, in any case, like we are very much in the infancy of digital A/V > entertainment still. People are trying to work out how to sell, store, > distribute, etc. audio and video entertainment. What things do people feel > like buying outright, and one things do they want to rent or subscribe to? > How does it work in your house, when your walking or driving around, > traveling, etc.? Really, the attempts to deal with all this so far are > fairly primitive. The very fact that we're sitting here talking about "How > can we sensibly play digital audio in our houses?" shows how primitive it > is! ;) > > Cheers, > Carl > > -- > Carl Edlund Anderson > http://www.carlaz.com/ > From cea at CARLAZ.COM Tue Jul 9 09:03:52 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 08:03:52 -0500 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 09 Jul 2013, at 07:52 , Jonathan Smith wrote: > > iTunes Store can be switched off. I just find iTunes is rather bloated. It is, and has some curious glitches and blind spots as well. I am not so into the dropdown media-type "tab" in the new version for switching between music, movies, TV shows (is there a real reason for distinguishing between movies and TV shows?) etc as its a bit sluggish, and it's weird that I can buy and organize e-books, but not view them (not that I really want to read on my desktop machine, but I should like to be able to view the contents to check stuff, occasionally). The metadata fields are all legacy for tagging audio, and have only been adapted to video or text somewhat haphazardly. Also, why are mobile device apps in iTunes and desktop apps in the App Store? (I mean, I know the historical reasons -- but come on! Get it sorted out!) > I assume that somebody (hopefully not Apple) will establish some standard > with digital AV sales sooner or later. Torrents are most people's answer! Yeah, downloading video from the iTunes store is a bit slow -- at least with my local ISP! I don't object philosophically to the idea of streaming video, but it's just to unreliable at present in my context. It's easier to download. (Seriously, even though I _have_ HBO locally, I nevertheless torrented, converted, and watched through the Apple TV all the episodes of the last season of Game of Thrones just because the quality was better! I'm not sure to what extent it's "piracy" if I have actually paid to view the content in some other delivery format ... :) ) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Tue Jul 9 09:44:20 2013 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 06:44:20 -0700 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Paul sedd... On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Albert Bouchard wrote: >> Forgive me if this answer has already been given but iTunes lets you specify where you want your files to be stored. In the preferences menu under advanced you can specify where you want your files to be kept. It can be anywhere you want. Except it doesn't.? :) > I believe that setting only allows you to change where the root directory of your files live.? Keith's complaint is (as I understand it) that the arrangement of the lower-level subdirectories isn't to his liking, and so changing the "iTunes Media folder location" wouldn't help with that. Righty.? Oh well.? It's still doing it (although two days ago, it wasn't).? I've just given up and will rearrange them to the way I want manually as I'm copying them over to backup storage, and then when I go to load them onto the playing device later in the new house, I'll start from the backup and then just not use iTunes there and they'll stay put. I assume that will be XBMC, which I've never used.? I would start using it now, except that I don't have the time to learn - I gotta get all these discs loaded in before we move. I think Carl is right...what's clunky now should eventually be made much more convenient.? (Though with some of these "open-source-databases" (Gracenote, the Spotify/Grooveshark catalogues, etc.) I always find that expecting average Joes to get things straight is just not feasible...I have to check *everything* to make sure it isn't totally wrong.? It's like getting a Cleopatra CD in the mail!) :)? Tracks are mislabelled, out of order, wrong/poor graphics, wrong spellings, music full of data errors, track cuts off before end of song/long bit of silence after track ends, all kinds of crap is just wrong.? Hopefully in the future, stuff will be much more organized and QC'd, but who knows? Plus, my archive is pretty messy and large, and so while I'm here waiting for the day (soon?) when TB will become "small" and I can have my entire archive anywhere I want, I am trying to tidy it up as best as I can and otherwise just wait a little longer.? Storage with moving parts is now the case for me, but soon I hope (imagine) that 500GB memory sticks will be the norm (and cheap).? Then I can carry it all on a keychain. Anyway, this discussion has been interesting and helpful...thanks. Keith From insect.brain at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 9 10:01:33 2013 From: insect.brain at GMAIL.COM (mike coleman) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 09:01:33 -0500 Subject: (off) iTunes and the APPLE Message-ID: I think this explains (well enough) why everyone is caught up in endless circles http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/alien.ufo/Tsarion,%20Michael%20-%20Atlantis%20Alien%20Visitation%20and%20Genetic%20Manipulation.pdf I couldn't get my mom off channel 8, much less teach her to work the cable TV remote. and mine only lasted to 79 before I destroyed her, DARN IT On 7/9/13, Keith Henderson wrote: > Paul sedd... > > > On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Albert Bouchard wrote: > >>> Forgive me if this answer has already been given but iTunes lets you >>> specify where you want your files to be stored. In the preferences menu >>> under advanced you can specify where you want your files to be kept. It >>> can be anywhere you want. > > Except it doesn't. :) > >> I believe that setting only allows you to change where the root directory >> of your files live. Keith's complaint is (as I understand it) that the >> arrangement of the lower-level subdirectories isn't to his liking, and so >> changing the "iTunes Media folder location" wouldn't help with that. > > Righty. Oh well. It's still doing it (although two days ago, it wasn't). > I've just given up and will rearrange them to the way I want manually as I'm > copying them over to backup storage, and then when I go to load them onto > the playing device later in the new house, I'll start from the backup and > then just not use iTunes there and they'll stay put. > > I assume that will be XBMC, which I've never used. I would start using it > now, except that I don't have the time to learn - I gotta get all these > discs loaded in before we move. > > I think Carl is right...what's clunky now should eventually be made much > more convenient. (Though with some of these "open-source-databases" > (Gracenote, the Spotify/Grooveshark catalogues, etc.) I always find that > expecting average Joes to get things straight is just not feasible...I have > to check *everything* to make sure it isn't totally wrong. It's like > getting a Cleopatra CD in the mail!) :) Tracks are mislabelled, out of > order, wrong/poor graphics, wrong spellings, music full of data errors, > track cuts off before end of song/long bit of silence after track ends, all > kinds of crap is just wrong. Hopefully in the future, stuff will be much > more organized and QC'd, but who knows? > > Plus, my archive is pretty messy and large, and so while I'm here waiting > for the day (soon?) when TB will become "small" and I can have my entire > archive anywhere I want, I am trying to tidy it up as best as I can and > otherwise just wait a little longer. Storage with moving parts is now the > case for me, but soon I hope (imagine) that 500GB memory sticks will be the > norm (and cheap). Then I can carry it all on a keychain. > > Anyway, this discussion has been interesting and helpful...thanks. > > Keith > > From cea at CARLAZ.COM Tue Jul 9 13:10:27 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 12:10:27 -0500 Subject: iTunes advice In-Reply-To: <1373377460.32432.YahooMailNeo@web121605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Crowd sourced metadata for audio is pretty bad. Usually, but not always, the Artist name and Album title are _close_ to right ... And that's about it! ;) For iTunes, you can download and add in various AppleScript things that help tame the metadata etc. Possibly other software has similar built-in or plugable features? Cheers, Carl Sent from my iPhone On Jul 9, 2013, at 8:44, Keith Henderson wrote: > I think Carl is right...what's clunky now should eventually be made much more convenient. (Though with some of these "open-source-databases" (Gracenote, the Spotify/Grooveshark catalogues, etc.) I always find that expecting average Joes to get things straight is just not feasible...I have to check *everything* to make sure it isn't totally wrong. It's like getting a Cleopatra CD in the mail!) :) Tracks are mislabelled, out of order, wrong/poor graphics, wrong spellings, music full of data errors, track cuts off before end of song/long bit of silence after track ends, all kinds of crap is just wrong. Hopefully in the future, stuff will be much more organized and QC'd, but who knows? From grodog at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 12 11:40:20 2013 From: grodog at GMAIL.COM (Allan Grohe) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 10:40:20 -0500 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! Message-ID: Hola boc-l folks!---- It has been an age and a day since I was last subscribed to boc-l, but I just picked up the new Warrior reissue, and wanted to see what folks thought of it, so I naturally returned :D I am just listening to the new Steve Wilson stereo mix, and will head down to the basement to listen to the 5.1 surround mix sometime over the weekend. Have other folks heard it yet? PS - Ben: my old email of grodog at pacbell.net was still in the system on LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET but I couldn't figure out how to update my email on it, so I just registered again with this addy. Please remove my old pacbell addy, as it's long-defunct now. Allan. ---- Allan Grohe Black Blade Publishing Editor and Project Manager http://www.black-blade-publishing.com/ grodog at gmail.com http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/ http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html for my Greyhawk site From smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 12 13:59:17 2013 From: smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Smith) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2013 01:59:17 +0800 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think the quality is excellent with plenty of extra material. and the 24/96 quality. I have nowhere to try out the 5.1 mix, though. Jonathan On 12 July 2013 23:40, Allan Grohe wrote: > Hola boc-l folks!---- > > It has been an age and a day since I was last subscribed to boc-l, but I > just picked up the new Warrior reissue, and wanted to see what folks > thought of it, so I naturally returned :D > > I am just listening to the new Steve Wilson stereo mix, and will head > down to the basement to listen to the 5.1 surround mix sometime over > the weekend. Have other folks heard it yet? > > PS - Ben: my old email of grodog at pacbell.net was still in the system > on LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET but I couldn't figure out how to update > my email on it, so I just registered again with this addy. Please remove > my old pacbell addy, as it's long-defunct now. > > Allan. > ---- > Allan Grohe > Black Blade Publishing > Editor and Project Manager > http://www.black-blade-publishing.com/ > > grodog at gmail.com > http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/ > http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html for my Greyhawk site > From cea at CARLAZ.COM Fri Jul 12 16:28:27 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:28:27 -0500 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I want some to send me the digitised tracks so I can do my own mix. :) I think Wilson did a great job (as expected) of making a clearer version of the original mix, but I never really liked the original mix that much! (Blasphemy? ;) Well, sue me! :) ) Also: Someone send me the digitised tracks from CotBS, please .... A little gated reverb on the snare is all right, but .... ;) That would be a fun thing or contest or something: Hawkwind Fan Remixes. :) But I suppose the rights issues etc. would be horrendous, at best! Cheers, Carl Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2013, at 12:59, Jonathan Smith wrote: > I think the quality is excellent with plenty of extra material. and the > 24/96 quality. I have nowhere to try out the 5.1 mix, though. > > Jonathan > > > On 12 July 2013 23:40, Allan Grohe wrote: > >> Hola boc-l folks!---- >> >> It has been an age and a day since I was last subscribed to boc-l, but I >> just picked up the new Warrior reissue, and wanted to see what folks >> thought of it, so I naturally returned :D >> >> I am just listening to the new Steve Wilson stereo mix, and will head >> down to the basement to listen to the 5.1 surround mix sometime over >> the weekend. Have other folks heard it yet? >> >> PS - Ben: my old email of grodog at pacbell.net was still in the system >> on LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET but I couldn't figure out how to update >> my email on it, so I just registered again with this addy. Please remove >> my old pacbell addy, as it's long-defunct now. >> >> Allan. >> ---- >> Allan Grohe >> Black Blade Publishing >> Editor and Project Manager >> http://www.black-blade-publishing.com/ >> >> grodog at gmail.com >> http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/ >> http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html for my Greyhawk site >> > From lucidsound at IC24.NET Fri Jul 12 16:34:08 2013 From: lucidsound at IC24.NET (LucidSounD) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 21:34:08 +0100 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: <567C4885-0017-4394-A496-93EC58DFF8CE@carlaz.com> Message-ID: I like this idea. I guess the rights issue is only a problem if the end product is being sold? Would be great to be able to remix some of those old albums though :-) -----Original Message----- From: Carl Edlund Anderson Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 9:28 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: HW - new Warrior reissue! I want some to send me the digitised tracks so I can do my own mix. :) I think Wilson did a great job (as expected) of making a clearer version of the original mix, but I never really liked the original mix that much! (Blasphemy? ;) Well, sue me! :) ) Also: Someone send me the digitised tracks from CotBS, please .... A little gated reverb on the snare is all right, but .... ;) That would be a fun thing or contest or something: Hawkwind Fan Remixes. :) But I suppose the rights issues etc. would be horrendous, at best! Cheers, Carl Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2013, at 12:59, Jonathan Smith wrote: > I think the quality is excellent with plenty of extra material. and the > 24/96 quality. I have nowhere to try out the 5.1 mix, though. > > Jonathan > > > On 12 July 2013 23:40, Allan Grohe wrote: > >> Hola boc-l folks!---- >> >> It has been an age and a day since I was last subscribed to boc-l, but I >> just picked up the new Warrior reissue, and wanted to see what folks >> thought of it, so I naturally returned :D >> >> I am just listening to the new Steve Wilson stereo mix, and will head >> down to the basement to listen to the 5.1 surround mix sometime over >> the weekend. Have other folks heard it yet? >> >> PS - Ben: my old email of grodog at pacbell.net was still in the system >> on LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET but I couldn't figure out how to update >> my email on it, so I just registered again with this addy. Please remove >> my old pacbell addy, as it's long-defunct now. >> >> Allan. >> ---- >> Allan Grohe >> Black Blade Publishing >> Editor and Project Manager >> http://www.black-blade-publishing.com/ >> >> grodog at gmail.com >> http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/ >> http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html for my Greyhawk site >> > From kruch7 at COX.NET Sat Jul 13 07:46:25 2013 From: kruch7 at COX.NET (Joseph Elric Smith) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2013 07:46:25 -0400 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: <-4131030587527467287@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Well fancy seeing you here Allan :) ken Gygax is to Gaming what Kirby was to comics Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil than you Slice N Dice: Game and Pizza Parlour WWBYD What would Brigham Young do ? http://answersfromthewizard.com/ http://ariochslair.com/ On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Allan Grohe wrote: > Hola boc-l folks!---- > > It has been an age and a day since I was last subscribed to boc-l, but I > just picked up the new Warrior reissue, and wanted to see what folks > thought of it, so I naturally returned :D > > I am just listening to the new Steve Wilson stereo mix, and will head > down to the basement to listen to the 5.1 surround mix sometime over > the weekend. Have other folks heard it yet? > > PS - Ben: my old email of grodog at pacbell.net was still in the system > on LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET but I couldn't figure out how to update > my email on it, so I just registered again with this addy. Please remove > my old pacbell addy, as it's long-defunct now. > > Allan. > ---- > Allan Grohe > Black Blade Publishing > Editor and Project Manager > http://www.black-blade-publishing.com/ > > grodog at gmail.com > http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/ > http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html for my Greyhawk site > From jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM Sun Jul 14 06:13:26 2013 From: jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM (Jerry Kranitz) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 06:13:26 -0400 Subject: Aural Innovations Radio: New Space Rock Show Message-ID: http://Aural-Innovations.com I've just uploaded a new show from Aural Innovations Space Rock Radio (show #312). See the playlist below. Aural Innovations broadcasts 24 hours a day in both streaming and download editions. You can go directly to the Radio shows page at: http://aural-innovations.com/radio/radio.html. Aural Innovations Space Rock Radio (show #312) Electric Moon ? ?The Inner Part? (from You Can See The Sound Of) Gi?bia ? ?Introducing Night Sound? (from Introducing Night Sound) Gi?bia ? ?Politurbo? (from Beyond The Stars) Jay Tausig ? ?Metamorphosis? (from Scorpio Water Dragon Fire Bird) Chrome ? ?Looking For Your Door? (from Half Machine from the Sun, The Lost Chrome Tracks from '79-'80) Computerchemist ? ?Caterpillar Pirouette? (from Signatures I) Aural Innovations ID (by Stone Premonitions) Audio Cologne Project ? ?Mind The Gap? (from 2911) Sendelica ? ?Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Buddha? (from The Kaleidoscopic Kat And It's Autoscopic Ego) The Rendlesham Forest Incident ? ?Space Jester? (from Last Flight Of The Hope Dempsey) Earthling Society ? ?The Elevator Does Not Stop At This Floor? (from Zodiak) Space Debris ? ?Time Traveller? (from She?s A Temple) Charles Rice Goff III ? ?Ours? (from Imagination On Judgment Off) Aural Innovations ID (by Stone Premonitions) Steve Lawson & Daniel Berkman ? ?Antidote To Everything? (from FingerPainting) Oceanfire ? ?Movement 1? (from KHZ4: glissorchestrations?/?sonics) Dark Matter Transfer ? ?Penumbra? (from An Infinite Constellation Of Dreams) Tropea ? ?Short Trip To Space? (from Short Trip To Space) http://Aural-Innovations.com From shll at NOVONORDISK.COM Sun Jul 14 07:53:11 2013 From: shll at NOVONORDISK.COM (SHLL (Scott Heller)) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 11:53:11 +0000 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! Message-ID: This weekend I invited some friends over for some music and beer in the garden as the weather was so amazing and around midnight, we sat in my listening room and cranked up the Warrior on the Edge of Time in DTS 96khz 5.1 surround sound and got blown away completely! Steven Wilson has made a totally killer mix. The way the vocal in Magnu comes in and swirls around the room is very intense. The space out in Opa Loka was so cool and the way he mixes the violin is really spaced out. It was always one of my favourite record and this is totally amazing. I have a great Klipsch 5.1 system and a good room to hear music in so we got to hear it at high volume the way it was supposed to be heard. If you have a proper 5.1 you will not regret this one. Sounds amazing. I wish Steven Wilson could do this to more classic records. I have all the King Crimson ones and they are also mindblowing. Have not heard the Jethro Tull he recently did, A passion Play. Peace scott From cea at CARLAZ.COM Sun Jul 14 22:07:35 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 21:07:35 -0500 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 14 Jul 2013, at 06:53 , SHLL (Scott Heller) wrote: > > Have not heard the Jethro Tull he recently did, A passion Play. Did he do _Passion Play_? I knew about his Aqualung (very good) and Thick As A Brick (also good) remixes, but hadn't heard tell of a Wilson Passion Play remix until now. Must investigate .... Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 15 02:19:36 2013 From: smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Smith) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:19:36 +0800 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: <05C6E38A-ABA4-46C1-861E-1B10BF1E3D97@carlaz.com> Message-ID: Wilson is such an an impressive talent. I wasn't aware of any of his remixes except the King Crimson and his own of course ones. I hope that Warrior is commercially viable enough to make other HW albums commercially viable-- even new ones. On 15 July 2013 10:07, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > On 14 Jul 2013, at 06:53 , SHLL (Scott Heller) > wrote: > > > > Have not heard the Jethro Tull he recently did, A passion Play. > > Did he do _Passion Play_? I knew about his Aqualung (very good) and Thick > As A Brick (also good) remixes, but hadn't heard tell of a Wilson Passion > Play remix until now. Must investigate .... > > Cheers, > Carl > > -- > Carl Edlund Anderson > http://www.carlaz.com/ > From cea at CARLAZ.COM Mon Jul 15 09:18:56 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:18:56 -0500 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 15 Jul 2013, at 01:19 , Jonathan Smith wrote: > Wilson is such an an impressive talent. I wasn't aware of any of his > remixes except the King Crimson and his own of course ones. I hope that > Warrior is commercially viable enough to make other HW > albums commercially viable-- even new ones. Well, remastering doesn't cost much; remixing I suppose costs a little more .... But I think principally it is a way for the labels to sell us yet another copy of the album! ;) Not that it's a rip-off, really: Wilson is very good, the sound _is_ noticeably improved (at least for fans familiar with the earlier releases). The new mixes and (for those who can use it) 5.1 mixes are interesting additions. If it's worth our buying another copy voluntarily, then we can hardly complain. An album like _Aqualung_ really benefited from the treatment, simply because most of the mastering jobs over the last 40 years have been so lame; perhaps the original vinyl was great, but that's not much good to me. The most recent remastering jobs were better than the earlier ones, but the remix sounds a lot better still. There are improvements to be heard in the new mixes of other things, like TAAB, though frankly they are less noticeable than with the likes of Aqualung. (Perhaps, if the original tapes are still around, Wilson could have a go at Imaginos! :D Ah, well, I doubt Sony or whoever sees that as a terribly good business.) Again, my only objection is that Wilson is _so_ faithful to the "spirit" of the original mixes that, OK, yes, they tend to be clearer, etc. but there are times were I would just like to hear a different production approach, rather than just remixing. I mean: that would be more interesting. Probably only to me, but .... :) I recognize that past efforts to remix or re-produce have often been mistakes or have dated quickly: the heavily remixed ZZ Top stuff that tried to make everything sound more like Eliminator, Ian Anderson's own efforts are remixing some Tull songs in the early '90s (sometimes some interesting stuff, but mostly just slapping a bunch of late '80s drum production in there, which I remember sounding like it added oomph at the time, but 20 years further on just sounds a bit heavy handed .....) I mean, seriously: would a "faithful" remix of (the much, but not wholly unjustly, maligned) _Chronicle of the Black Sword_ really do anyone any favours? :) There is, of course, music for which it would be pointless to strip away '80s production (e.g. "In the Air Tonight") but there is a lot of stuff that might benefit from not sounding like a "product of its time", too. Admittedly, Wilson's remix work is not focused on that; he tends to work on very good products of their times :) but that does mean that there's only so much difference (excepting for the hard core fans, who have long since reverse-engineered every fader tweak from the original sessions in their heads! ;) ). Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From cea at CARLAZ.COM Mon Jul 15 09:21:46 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:21:46 -0500 Subject: OFF: Re: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: <05C6E38A-ABA4-46C1-861E-1B10BF1E3D97@carlaz.com> Message-ID: On 14 Jul 2013, at 21:07 , Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > > Did he [Steve Wilson] do _Passion Play_? I knew about his Aqualung (very good) and Thick As A Brick (also good) remixes, but hadn't heard tell of a Wilson Passion Play remix until now. Must investigate .... OK, some Googling suggests Tull's _Passion Play_, _Benefit_, and even the Chateau D'Isaster tapes are on the cards (or at least reasonably rumoured to be so) for Wilson remix treatment this year. Mind you, the current editions of all of these are pretty reasonable, but perhaps there's something more interesting to be done with the Chateau stuff ...? Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From cea at CARLAZ.COM Mon Jul 15 09:27:45 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:27:45 -0500 Subject: OFF: Work-in-progress cover of HW's "LSD" In-Reply-To: <4723869C-8540-44BF-99D3-D077BE0DC4A9@carlaz.com> Message-ID: Bit of a work-in-progress/draft version here, but I like how it's coming along: https://soundcloud.com/carledlundanderson/lsd3 This started just because I was trying out some bass tones, and the "LSD" riff is a good fun riff with which to do that. But it was sufficiently fun that I kept thinking "I need to do a few more bars, I need to add the guitar part, I oughta ...". And so I have started to do all that. :) I guess this will probably evolve into an Espada Negra version; it already got a "Like" from Alan Davey on Facebook, so it must be headed in the right direction. ;) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From nathan.gilbert at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 15 10:01:40 2013 From: nathan.gilbert at GMAIL.COM (Nathan Gilbert) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:01:40 -0600 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: <05C6E38A-ABA4-46C1-861E-1B10BF1E3D97@carlaz.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > On 14 Jul 2013, at 06:53 , SHLL (Scott Heller) > wrote: > > > > Have not heard the Jethro Tull he recently did, A passion Play. > > Did he do _Passion Play_? I knew about his Aqualung (very good) and Thick > As A Brick (also good) remixes, but hadn't heard tell of a Wilson Passion > Play remix until now. Must investigate .... > > Yes, Steven also has remixed "A Passion Play" and the Chateau tapes which will be released together sometime in 2014. I believe Steven also remixed "Benefit" which is supposed to be released in October. The EMI merger with Warner has been delaying these releases. From anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 15 02:59:40 2013 From: anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM (Abra Cadabra) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:59:40 +0200 Subject: Gollygosh it's Peter Tosh: The story of Seafoood or Pasta Message-ID: Hawkwind, Legendary Pink Dots, Gong: SEAFOOD The Clash, AC/DC, Guns'N'Roses: PASTA Pearl Jam, Blue Oyster Cult. BOTH SEAFOOD AND PASTA And Peter Tosh? SOULFOOD and RASTA Now, i am onboard The Craft hovering above Atlantis, babbling Nadsat at Christmas in Steve Hillage's jumpsuit. HAIL.. c From smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 16 00:51:54 2013 From: smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Smith) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:51:54 +0800 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The difference is not massive, but worth a listen. I am just happy to have the recording in 24 bit sound. Actually a DVD-Audio is not necessary now. FLAC can do the job just as well without needing a DVD-A player. I had to rip the DVD to listen to it properly. You can down-mix the 5.1 recording with a Foobar plug-in for headphones. I haven't quite decided whether that really gives you 5.1 sound in stereo!! The Foobar Dolby Headphone plugin does seem to improve the sound for headphones. I wish all the Atomhenge releases had been made available as 24/96 downloads, but the releases were still very welcome. Cherry red needed a marketable product and that do it much better than Voiceprint or Cleopatra. The *Chronicle of the Black Sword* did sound a bit off. *Live Chronicles*, with the Moorcock narrations, worked better. On 15 July 2013 22:01, Nathan Gilbert wrote: > On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Carl Edlund Anderson >wrote: > > > On 14 Jul 2013, at 06:53 , SHLL (Scott Heller) > > wrote: > > > > > > Have not heard the Jethro Tull he recently did, A passion Play. > > > > Did he do _Passion Play_? I knew about his Aqualung (very good) and Thick > > As A Brick (also good) remixes, but hadn't heard tell of a Wilson Passion > > Play remix until now. Must investigate .... > > > > > Yes, Steven also has remixed "A Passion Play" and the Chateau tapes which > will be released together sometime in 2014. I believe Steven also remixed > "Benefit" which is supposed to be released in October. The EMI merger with > Warner has been delaying these releases. > From smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 16 01:23:52 2013 From: smithjm77x7 at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Smith) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:23:52 +0800 Subject: OFF: Work-in-progress cover of HW's "LSD" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds good to me! On 15 July 2013 21:27, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > Bit of a work-in-progress/draft version here, but I like how it's coming > along: > > https://soundcloud.com/carledlundanderson/lsd3 > > This started just because I was trying out some bass tones, and the "LSD" > riff is a good fun riff with which to do that. But it was sufficiently fun > that I kept thinking "I need to do a few more bars, I need to add the > guitar part, I oughta ...". And so I have started to do all that. :) > > I guess this will probably evolve into an Espada Negra version; it already > got a "Like" from Alan Davey on Facebook, so it must be headed in the right > direction. ;) > > Cheers, > Carl > > -- > Carl Edlund Anderson > http://www.carlaz.com/ > From stevefreight at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 16 05:46:31 2013 From: stevefreight at GMAIL.COM (Steve Freight) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:46:31 +0100 Subject: OFF - KScope Sampler @ Amazon UK - Steven Wilson Message-ID: With the interest in Steven's production you might be interested in a free sampler album which includes a Steven Wilson track and other artists on Kscope (logical eh?) link here http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CLX7P1Q/ref=s9_al_bw_g340_ir02?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=0VRMHQFJD497A71BBRZM&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=414317587&pf_rd_i=2693524031 Steve -- View Steve's Photos of Hawkwind Porcupine Tree and Isle of Wight http://www.flickr.com/photos/venthawktree From anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 16 15:30:18 2013 From: anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM (Abra Cadabra) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:30:18 +0200 Subject: Stellar Variations black vinyl & Onward green spattered vinyl Message-ID: Got these gems a few weeks back via Mark Lewis (Lew), who was soliciting these, no idea what his connection to HW/Cherry Red etc is but he is a good guy. They sound tremendous, though like someone pointed out on FB, the SV LP is abit thin, unlike the Lost land of Dreams LP also from CR. Dont have the Brock on vinyl though, but the SV sounds fine anyway. Dreaming of remasters of Zones and Out & Intake - these albums have the fantastic cover art of John Coulthart and though being hodgepodge recordings from an arguably nadir for HW in the 80s, i really enjoy them alot and would not mind remasters! They are the only 2 left. August sees Atomhenge remaster of Calverts Lucky Leif with bonus tracks, something to look forward too as well. Christian ObCD: Entombed _Unreal Estate_ NP: Hawkwind _Ipswich, 4-12-79_ From anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 16 15:36:14 2013 From: anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM (Abra Cadabra) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:36:14 +0200 Subject: my CD + LP Hawkwind stuff, sure there are tons of compilations i am missing... Message-ID: Hawkwind - Hawkwind (EMI remaster with bonus tracks) Hawkwind - In Search Of Space (EMI remaster with bonus tracks) Hawkwind - Doremi Faso Latido (EMI remaster with bonus tracks) Hawkwind - Space Ritual (2CD) (EMI remaster with bonus tracks) Hawkwind - Space Ritual (3CD collector's edition digipak w/DVD) Hawkwind - Hall Of The Mountain Grill (EMI remaster with bonus tracks) Hawkwind - Warrior On The Edge Of Time [UK DOJO label CD w/original "Motorhead" single as bonus track. Mastered from LP & 7"] Hawkwind - Warrior On The Edge Of Time [USA Griffin label version] Hawkwind - Warrior On The Edge Of Time [German Rock Fever label pirate CD] Hawkwind - Warrior On The Edge Of Time [Atomhenge 2CD+DVD remaster clamshell ed, with Steven Wilson mix] [new 2013] Hawkwind - Astounding Sounds, Amazing Music (original Virgin CD) Hawkwind - Astounding Sounds, Amazing Music (Atomhenge remaster w/ bonus tracks) Hawkwind - Astounding Sounds, Amazing Music & Quark, Strangeness & Charm [Rock Fever pirate 2-on-1 CD] Hawkwind - Quark, Strangeness & Charm (original Virgin CD) Hawkwind - Quark, Strangeness & Charm [Atomhenge 2CD remaster with bonus tracks] Hawkwind - PXR5 [original Virgin CD] Hawkwind - PXR5 [Atomhenge remaster w/bonus tracks] Hawkwind - PXR5 [Sunrise pirate CD with 6 live bonus tracks] Hawkwind - Hawklords 25 Years On [original Virgin CD + Virgin/Charisma LP] Hawkwind - Hawklords 25 Years On [Atomhenge label 2CD remaster with bonus tracks] Hawkwind - Hawklords 25 Years On [Rock Fever pirate CD w/bonus tracks] Hawkwind - Hawklords Live [Griffin CD] Hawkwind - Hawklords Live '78 [restored Atomhenge remaster CD w/bonus/some diff. tracks] Hawkwind - Live Seventy Nine [Castle LP] [w/ Tim Blake] Hawkwind - Live Seventy Nine [Atomhenge remaster CD w/2 bonus tracks] Hawkwind - Levitation [w/ Ginger Baker] [original Castle CD version] Hawkwind - Levitation [3CD deluxe Atomhenge label remaster] Hawkwind - Sonic Attack [EBS CD with bonus track] Hawkwind - Sonic Attack [Atomhenge remaster w/bonus disc] (2CD) Hawkwind - Angels Of Death b/w Trans-Dimensional Man 7" vinyl PS single (RCA) Hawkwind - Choose Your Masques [EBS CD & RCA LP] Hawkwind - Choose Your Masques [Atomhenge double CD remaster] Hawkwind - Church Of Hawkwind [RCA LP & Griffin CD] Hawkwind - Church of Hawkwind [Atomhenge remaster CD with restored track sequence from vinyl LP + bonus trax] Hawkwind - Zones [Flicknife facsimile remaster CD in an oversized LP style slide-in digipak w/poster] (live) Hawkwind - This Is Your Last Chance EP [Flicknife 7" vinyl single with Deep Fix, Robert Calvert, Hawkwind Zoo] Hawkwind - This Is Hawkwind, Do Not Panic [LP & Anagram CD] (live) Hawkwind - Zones/This Is Hawkwind Do Not Panic 2CD (Anagram) (live) Hawkwind - Zarozinia b/w Assault & Battery (live) 7" PS vinyl single [Flicknife] Hawkwind - Chronicle Of The Black Sword [Flicknife CD w/bonus tracks & Flicknife LP with inner] Hawkwind - Chronicle Of The Black Sword [Dojo CD, with different bonus tracks] Hawkwind - Chronicle Of The Black Sword [Atomhenge remaster incl. "Earth Ritual" EP as bonus tracks] Hawkwind - Live Chronicles [Castle label reissue version with "Gimme Shelter" etc. on bonus disc] Hawkwind - Live Chronicles [Griffin label 2CD w/complete show and "Dreaming City" novel] Hawkwind - Live Chronicles [Atomhenge remaster 2CD] Hawkwind - Out & Intake [Flicknife CD] Hawkwind - Out & Intake [Griffin CD] Hawkwind - Friday Rock Show Sessions (live) Hawkwind - The Xenon Codex [UK GWR CD, & USA Enigma picture CD, & Enigma LP] Hawkwind - The Xenon Codex [Atomhenge remaster CD w/bonus tracks from "Undisclosed Files" CD] Hawkwind - Undisclosed Files: Addendum [live '84 & '89] Hawkwind - Space Bandits [USA Roadracer CD] Hawkwind - Space Bandits [Castle remaster digipak CD] Hawkwind - Space Bandits [Atomhenge remaster CD w/bonus tracks] Hawkwind - Palace Springs [Castle reissue CD] PS! Looking for GWR CD version Hawkwind - Palace Springs / California Brainstorm [2CD Atomhenge remaster w/ bonus tracks] Hawkwind - California Brainstorm [ILOKI label USA CD version] Hawkwind - California Brainstorm [Cyclops label CD w/ box & book, 1 extra track] Hawkwind - Electric Tepee (UK Castle CD) Hawkwind - Electric Tepee (Atomhenge remaster CD) Hawkwind - Decide Your Future E.P. [w/Astralasia & others] Hawkwind - It Is The Business Of The Future To Be Dangerous (Castle digipak remaster CD) Hawkwind - It Is The Business Of The Future To Be Dangerous (Atomhenge remaster 2CD) Hawkwind - Quark EP (EBS) Hawkwind - The Business Trip: Live Hawkwind - The Business Trip: Live (Atomhenge remaster CD) Hawkwind - as The Psychedelic Warriors - The White Zone [Atomhenge remaster CD] Hawkwind - Future Reconstructions: Ritual of The Solstice [remix CD, EBS label 1995] Hawkwind - Alien 4 (EBS 2LP) + (EBS CD) Hawkwind - Alien 4 [Atomhenge remaster w/bonus track] Hawkwind - Area S1 (CDEP & 12" vinyl Maxi EP) Hawkwind - Love In Space 2CD (EBS digipak) Hawkwind - Love In Space 2CD [Atomhenge remaster CD with EP/single as bonus tracks] Hawkwind - Love In Space CD single (EBS) Hawkwind - Distant Horizons (EBS) Hawkwind - Distant Horizons [Atomhenge remaster CD w/bonus tracks] Hawkwind - In Your Area [live & studio] (Griffin CD) Hawkwind - In Your Area (Voiceprint reissue CD) Hawkwind - 1997 [live CD sold only to Hawkwind Passport holders] Hawkwind - The Pink Floyd Encyclopedia Exclusive Tribute CD ["Interstellar Overdrive"/"Hyperdrive Reprise" 2 trk. EP] Hawkwind - Spacebrock Hawkwind - Yule Ritual [2CD Live at Astoria 2000] Hawkwind - Canterbury Fayre 2001 (2CD) Hawkwind - Spaced Out In London [live w/Arthur Brown] Hawkwind - The X-Mas Single 2003 Hawkwind - Take Me To Your Leader [2005 w/Arthur Brown and Lene Lovich as guests] Hawkwind - Take Me To Your Leader Ltd. export digipak CD & DVD [bonus track on CD + DVD - digipak] Hawkwind - Spirit Of The Age pt. 1 (CD single) Hawkwind - Spirit Of The Age pt. 2 (CD single) Hawkwind - This Is Your Captain Speaking [Dave Brock interview promo CD, 2005] Hawkwind - Take Me To Your Future [EBS, 2006 w/DVD] Hawkwind - The Brock/Calvert Project [ltd. Voiceprint CD] Hawkwind - Knights Of Space (2CD live 2008) Hawkwind - Blood Of The Earth [1CD, 2CD and 2LP editions] [2010] Hawkwind - Onward [new 2012 2CD + green camo 2LP] Hawkwind - Hawkwind Light Orchestra: Stellar Variations (new 2012) [CD & 2LP] Hawkwind - Weird Tapes No. 1: ('77-'79) Hawkwind - Weird Tapes No. 2: Live '77 - Studio '78 Hawkwind - Weird Tapes No. 3: Free Festivals Hawkwind - Weird Tapes No. 4: Live '78 Hawkwind - Weird Tapes No. 5: Demos Hawkwind - Weird Tapes No. 6: Live Hawkwind - Weird Tapes No. 7: Dave Brock - The Demos Hawkwind - Weird Tapes No. 8: 1966-'73 Hawkwind - Welcome To The Future [2CD compilation from 'Weird Tapes' series] Hawkwind - Return of the Legendary Space Rangers [compilation CD from 'Weird Tapes' series] Hawkwind - Codename Hawkwind [live Cambridge '71] Hawkwind - On Sundown [Edmonton Sundown live 30-12-72] Hawkwind - Text Of Festival (Live 1970-72) Hawkwind - Ridicule Hawkwind - BBC Radio 1 Live In Concert (Windsong CD) Hawkwind - Hawkwind: At The BBC - 1972 [2CD expanded release with mono and stereo mixes, + Johnnie Walker sessions, 2010] Hawkwind - Space Rock From London [Genschman label bootleg CD of BBC Radio 1 CD, different stereo mix] Hawkwind - Space London 1972 [bootleg CD same as Genschman CD] Hawkwind - Leave No Star Unturned (new 2011) [live 1971] Hawkwind - Parallel Universe: A Liberty / United Artists Anthology 1970-1974 (new 2011 3CD) Hawkwind - Hawkwind Zoo: Sunshine Special E.P. [download only EP released with Parallel Universe box] Hawkwind - Space Ritual Sundown Vol. 2 / Masters Of The Universe [digipak 2CD on Plastichead label] Hawkwind - Bring Me the Head of Yuri Gagarin: Live at the Empire Pool - 1973 [Charly CD w/original art] Hawkwind - Bring Me The Head Of Yuri Gagarin [2008 remaster on Plastichead with bonus track] Hawkwind - Silver Machine [Planet label repackaged "Yuri Gagarin" CD] Hawkwind - Orgasmatron [bootleg compilation from 70s-80s-90s material, CD] Hawkwind - Dawn Of Hawkwind [bootleg CD diffent from Voiceprint CD] Hawkwind - 1999 Party [2CD live USA 1974] Hawkwind - Live '74 [edited version of "1999 Party" on 1 CD] Hawkwind - Thrilling Hawkwind Adventures [Live 1976 archive live release] Hawkwind - Collector's Series: Atomhenge '76 [2CD archive live] Hawkwind - Live At Bottom Line 1978 [bootleg vinyl LP] [recorded in New York] Hawkwind - St. Albans [bootleg CD, live Winter Tour 1979] Hawkwind - Collector's Series Vol. 1 - Complete Live 1979 [2CD archive live release] Hawkwind - Collector's Series: Choose Your Masques Live 1982 [2CD archive live release] Hawkwind - Golden Void [bootleg vinyl LP] [Glasgow Apollo, 1982] Hawkwind - Live At Stonehenge [bootleg vinyl LP] [Stonehenge festival, 1983] Hawkwind - Minneapolis, First Avenue, 04/10/89 [2CD Voiceprint live] Hawkwind - Treworgey Tree Fayre Live 1989 [2CD Voiceprint label, mispress with show from 1993] Hawkwind - USA Tour 1989 - 1990 [2CD Voiceprint CD from DVD] Hawkwind - Live At Glastonbury 1990 [bootleg quality audience recording] Hawkwind - Live In Nottingham 1990 [Bedrock single CD from live DVD] Hawkwind - Live In Nottingham 1990 [expanded Voiceprint 2CD edition] Hawkwind - Live In Space 1990 [CD that came with the Italian book] Hawkwind - Kings Of Speed, Lords of Light [bootleg live CD, Bochum, Germany 1991] Hawkwind - Reading University 19/05/92 [2CD Voiceprint live 2CD] Hawkwind - Rock City 1993 [bootleg CD] Hawkwind - Theta Orionis [bootleg CD, 1995] Hawkwind - Out Of The Shadows: In Concert [from DVD, live 4/12/02, w/Arthur Brown] Hawkwind - Winter Solstice 2005 (Voiceprint live 2CD) Hawkwind - Masters Of The Universe (EMI compilation) Hawkwind - Masters Of The Universe (Sanctuary compilation) Hawkwind - Masters Of The Universe [Marble Arch label CD] Hawkwind - Dawn Of Hawkwind [ltd. Blueprint label CD w/book] Hawkwind - Stasis: The U.A. Years 1971-75 Hawkwind - Roadhawks (LP) Hawkwind - The Hawkwind EP (CD from Greek magazine 2001) Hawkwind - Tales From Atom Henge [VU series Calvert era compilation CD] Hawkwind - Mighty Hawkwind Classics 1980-1985 (Flicknife years) Hawkwind - Acid Daze Vol. 1 Hawkwind - Acid Daze Vol. 2 Hawkwind - Acid Daze Vol. 3 Hawkwind - Acid Daze (The History Of Hawkwind) 2CD [partially collects vol. 1-3] Hawkwind - The Castle Masters Collection Hawkwind - The Best And The Rest Of Hawkwind Hawkwind - Silver Machine [Karousel label compilation] Hawkwind - Night Riding (compilation) Hawkwind - British Tribal Music (compilation) Hawkwind - 14 Rock Hard Hits [Ironstrike label compilation] Hawkwind - Golden Void [2CD 1969-1979 Flicknife/Cherry Red EP collection + Dave Brock interview] Hawkwind - Sonic Boom Killers: The Best of Singles A's and B's 1970-1980 Hawkwind - The Collection [EMI early days] Hawkwind - The Collection [different Castle 1986 compilation] (2LP+CD) Hawkwind - Live & Rare: Onward Flies The Bird [Emporio label compilation] Hawkwind - Utopia 1984 [Mausoleum LP] Hawkwind - Masters Of Rock [EMI budget comp with 2 new live tracks with Captain Rizz and Tim Blake] Hawkwind - Ambient Anarchists [2CD Snapper compilation] Hawkwind - Live Sonic Attack (2CD) Hawkwind - Epoch Eclipse [3CD comp 1970-2000 w/a remix of "Silver Machine"] Hawkwind - Spirit Of The Age: From Atomhenge To Earth Ritual [Atomhenge/Cherry Red remaster 3CD box set] Hawkwind - The Dream Goes On: From the Black Sword to Distant Horizons [Atomhenge/Cherry Red remaster 3CD box set] Hawkwind - Space Chase 1980-1985 [Cleopatra box set CD w/ poster & badge] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Lord of Light [Cleopatra comp. incl. solo Turner & Calvert tracks] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Elf & The Hawk [Davey solo EP and Hawkfan 12 cassette on 1 CD + bonus tracks] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Travellers Aid Trust [Hawkwind/Tubilah Dog/Culture Shock/Ozric Tentacles/Hippy Slags etc.] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Gimme Shelter Rock [charity EP w/Hawkwind & Sam Fox, Little Angels, Thunder + interview] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Family Tree [w/Paradogs/Ron Tree/Dave Brock/Hawkwind + more] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Best of Friends & Relations/The Rarities [2CD set w/Hawkwind and related and spinoff stuff - essential!! w/HLLG, Underground Zero, ICU & Deep Fix & more] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Best of Friends & Relations (Emporio version) Hawkwind (V.A.) - Best of Friends & Relations: The Rarities Hawkwind (V.A.) - Friends & Relations Vol. 6: Cosmic Travellers [w/Pressurehed, Melting Euphoria, Anubian Lights, Spiral Realms, Helios Creed & more] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Assassins Of Silence: Hundred Watt Violence [Ceres label Hawkwind tribute w/ST37, Petals, F/i, Voco Kesh, Monoshock, Fly Ashtray and more] + [CS from 2LP w/extra vinyl only trax and CD edition] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Daze Of The Underground - A Tribute to Hawkwind [2CD w/Tim Blake, Bedouin, Quarkspace, ST37, Spacehead, Amorphis, DarXtar, Circle, Sloterdijk, Spirits Burning, The Meads of Asphodel + more] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Hawkwind Triad [early daze Hawkwind covers by the 3 bands; U.S. Christmas, Harvestman & Minsk] (new 2010) Hawkwind (V.A.) - In Search of Hawkwind [collected CD of ltd. 7" vinyl series of Hawkwind covers, w/Mudhoney, Acid Mothers Temple, Bardo Pond, White Hills, Magoo + more.] (new 2010) Hawkwind (V.A.) - Covers All Vol. I: I Am A Clone I Am Not Alone (CS) [unofficial BOC-L mailing list Hawkwind cover version project, Hawkwind songs by other artists] Hawkwind (V.A.) - Covers All Vol. II: Shadows Of The Hawk (CS) Hawkwind (V.A.) - Covers All Vol. III: Charged With Cosmic Energy (CS) Hawkwind (V.A.) - Covers All Vol. IV: Designed To Rob You Of Your Mind (CS) From cea at CARLAZ.COM Wed Jul 17 08:45:13 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 07:45:13 -0500 Subject: OFF: BBC News - Acoustic levitation: Chemical reaction lifted by sound Message-ID: I have this fascination .... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23328706 -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From cea at CARLAZ.COM Thu Jul 18 08:45:37 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 07:45:37 -0500 Subject: HW - new Warrior reissue! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 15 Jul 2013, at 23:51 , Jonathan Smith wrote: > > I wish all the Atomhenge releases had been made available as 24/96 > downloads, but the releases were still very welcome. Oh, yes -- high quality downloads would be very welcome! I'm not holding my breath, though. ;) -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 18 23:50:51 2013 From: anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM (Abra Cadabra) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 05:50:51 +0200 Subject: Space Box on Cleo, Magic Muscle 12" & Don Xaliman Message-ID: Looking for a used or new Space Box released late 90s i only have mp3 s of it. It has some rare Arcmet, Alien Planetcapes and Melting Euphoria tracks among the Hawkwind stuff as well. Also: Bedouin (Hawkwind) - Live & Beyond (CD) The Deviants ? On Your Knees, Earthlings (compilation) (CD) Five Fifteen - Psychedelic Singalongs For Stadiums (CD) Magic Muscle - The Pipe, The Roar, The Grid [12" vinyl LP] Adrian Shaw & Rod Goodway - Oxygen Thieves (CD) We - In A Field Of Moose (CD) Zodiac Mindwarp & The Love Reaction - Weapons Of Mass Destruction [live] (CD) will pay decent prices for any of the above. I am getting this directly from Don Xaliman: Melodic Energy Commission - Wave Packet (new 2013 CD) http://melodicenergy.com/sales2.html do him the favor, MEC used to have Del Dettmar on their early EPs which you can get from Don as well on a single CD. From anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 22 04:32:29 2013 From: anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM (Abra Cadabra) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:32:29 +0200 Subject: Heaven Forbid Message-ID: Just dug out this CD - what a great album, i'd forgotten how good this is, must have been 7 years or so since i last played it. Both cover art of the blond Angel and the One Eyed horror pic too! Nice! I'd like to see you in Black! Power Underneath Despair! So hardcore to be BOC. Curse of the Hidden Mirror is ok (Pocket is ok). Christian From tim at KALYR.COM Tue Jul 23 11:02:46 2013 From: tim at KALYR.COM (Tim Hall) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:02:46 +0100 Subject: Heaven Forbid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 22/07/2013 09:32, Abra Cadabra wrote: > Just dug out this CD - what a great album, i'd forgotten how good this is, > must have been 7 years or so since i last played it. Both cover art of the > blond Angel and the One Eyed horror pic too! Nice! > > I'd like to see you in Black! Power Underneath Despair! So hardcore to be > BOC. Took me a while to get into because the production was so different from the polished sound of their 80s work. But the rawer sound works, and there are some great songs on it. Wonder if there will ever be another B?C studio album? Probably unlikely, but who knows? Tim -- Tim Hall http://www.kalyr.com/weblog http://twitter.com/kalyr From mcintyre at EXCHANGE.PA.MSU.EDU Tue Jul 23 11:15:58 2013 From: mcintyre at EXCHANGE.PA.MSU.EDU (John McIntyre) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:15:58 -0400 Subject: Heaven Forbid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Abra Cadabra wrote: > I'd like to see you in Black! Power Underneath Despair! So hardcore to be > BOC. > > "Power Underneath Despair" exemplifies my problem with the album: too many songs have a chorus that is just one line repeated over and over. I found myself wanting more variety in the songwriting. John McIntyre mcintyre at pa.msu.edu From tim at KALYR.COM Tue Jul 23 11:34:06 2013 From: tim at KALYR.COM (Tim Hall) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:34:06 +0100 Subject: Heaven Forbid In-Reply-To: <51EE9E2E.7060207@exchange.pa.msu.edu> Message-ID: On 23/07/2013 16:15, John McIntyre wrote: > "Power Underneath Despair" exemplifies my problem with the album: too > many songs have a chorus that is just one line repeated over and > over. I found myself wanting more variety in the songwriting. John Shirley's lyrics were definitely the album's big weakness. Eric and Buck delivered the tunes. Significant that "Harvest Moon" is by far the best lyric on the album. -- Tim Hall http://www.kalyr.com/weblog http://twitter.com/kalyr From kirthgersen at HOTMAIL.CO.UK Tue Jul 23 11:34:43 2013 From: kirthgersen at HOTMAIL.CO.UK (Ralph) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:34:43 -0400 Subject: Heaven Forbid Message-ID: "Harvest Moon" is a good song - but that CD really doesn't do anything for me and I never play it... From kirthgersen at HOTMAIL.CO.UK Tue Jul 23 12:06:13 2013 From: kirthgersen at HOTMAIL.CO.UK (Ralph) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:06:13 -0400 Subject: BOC Live 1975 French TV Show Message-ID: Now THIS is what I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL-jF-X6zbo From j.hillenburg at COMCAST.NET Tue Jul 23 17:43:18 2013 From: j.hillenburg at COMCAST.NET (Jason C. Hillenburg) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 21:43:18 +0000 Subject: Heaven Forbid In-Reply-To: <51EEA26E.5090000@kalyr.com> Message-ID: He's a respectable, if not often good, novelist and short story writer, but a lousy lyricist. The one lyric he wrote for the band that I liked unequivocally was "The Old Gods Return" - but, even then, I think it had more to do with Eric's delivery. "Heaven Forbid" falls flat for me, but it's not the weakest studio album. Curse of the Hidden Mirror was a major improvement. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Hall" To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 11:34:06 AM Subject: Re: Heaven Forbid On 23/07/2013 16:15, John McIntyre wrote: > "Power Underneath Despair" exemplifies my problem with the album: too > many songs have a chorus that is just one line repeated over and > over. I found myself wanting more variety in the songwriting. John Shirley's lyrics were definitely the album's big weakness. Eric and Buck delivered the tunes. Significant that "Harvest Moon" is by far the best lyric on the album. -- Tim Hall http://www.kalyr.com/weblog http://twitter.com/kalyr From tim at KALYR.COM Tue Jul 23 17:51:14 2013 From: tim at KALYR.COM (Tim Hall) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 22:51:14 +0100 Subject: Heaven Forbid In-Reply-To: <1202748287.1373560.1374615798827.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On 23/07/2013 22:43, Jason C. Hillenburg wrote: > He's a respectable, if not often good, novelist and short story writer, but a lousy lyricist. > The one lyric he wrote for the band that I liked unequivocally was "The Old Gods Return" - > but, even then, I think it had more to do with Eric's delivery. Being a good writer of prose fiction doesn't automatically translate into being a good poet, I guess, which is what's needed in a lyricist. -- Tim Hall http://www.kalyr.com/weblog http://twitter.com/kalyr From j.hillenburg at COMCAST.NET Tue Jul 23 18:13:43 2013 From: j.hillenburg at COMCAST.NET (Jason C. Hillenburg) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 22:13:43 +0000 Subject: Heaven Forbid In-Reply-To: <51EEFAD2.1070307@kalyr.com> Message-ID: I figure he came cheap. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Hall" To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:51:14 PM Subject: Re: Heaven Forbid On 23/07/2013 22:43, Jason C. Hillenburg wrote: > He's a respectable, if not often good, novelist and short story writer, but a lousy lyricist. > The one lyric he wrote for the band that I liked unequivocally was "The Old Gods Return" - > but, even then, I think it had more to do with Eric's delivery. Being a good writer of prose fiction doesn't automatically translate into being a good poet, I guess, which is what's needed in a lyricist. -- Tim Hall http://www.kalyr.com/weblog http://twitter.com/kalyr From tim at KALYR.COM Tue Jul 23 18:30:32 2013 From: tim at KALYR.COM (Tim Hall) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:30:32 +0100 Subject: Heaven Forbid In-Reply-To: <184300518.1374936.1374617623393.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On 23/07/2013 23:13, Jason C. Hillenburg wrote: > I figure he came cheap.:) I'd love to see them do a concept album with a concept written by Ken Hite. :) -- Tim Hall http://www.kalyr.com/weblog http://twitter.com/kalyr From martyn_white_2003 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 24 01:40:54 2013 From: martyn_white_2003 at YAHOO.COM (martyn white) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 22:40:54 -0700 Subject: Lemmy Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3KnCqU_BM4 From martyn_white_2003 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 24 23:39:55 2013 From: martyn_white_2003 at YAHOO.COM (martyn white) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 20:39:55 -0700 Subject: Lemmy In-Reply-To: <1374644454.7582.YahooMailNeo@web164002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It was the biggest mistake ever by Hawkwind to dismiss this man! ________________________________ From: martyn white To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:40 AM Subject: Lemmy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3KnCqU_BM4 From cea at CARLAZ.COM Thu Jul 25 08:57:41 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 07:57:41 -0500 Subject: Lemmy In-Reply-To: <1374723595.29426.YahooMailNeo@web164001.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 24 Jul 2013, at 22:39 , martyn white wrote: > > It was the biggest mistake ever by Hawkwind to dismiss this man! That might be true -- though, as Brock has (rather ruefully, methinks) observed, it worked out reasonably well for Lemmy in the end! ;) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM Thu Jul 25 22:11:07 2013 From: bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM (Gary Shindler) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 21:11:07 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [Up-Tight] A Disease With A Long Incubation: Blue =?utf-8?Q?=C3=96yster_Cult=E2=80=99s_?=Imaginos Message-ID: Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: > From: Up-Tight-owner at yahoogroups.com > Date: July 24, 2013, 5:48:01 AM CDT > To: Up-Tight at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Up-Tight] A Disease With A Long Incubation: Blue ?yster Cult?s Imaginos > Reply-To: Up-Tight at yahoogroups.com > > "Joseph Stannard charts the protracted gestation of B?C's most fearless gesture, Imaginos, which turns 25 this month, and recalls the impact it had on him as a teenager." > > http://thequietus.com/articles/12881-blue-oyster-cult-imaginos-review-anniversary > > Al > > __._,_.___ > Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) > RECENT ACTIVITY: > Visit Your Group > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use ? Send us Feedback > . > > __,_._,___ From des at EFALKMEDIA.COM Thu Jul 25 22:53:36 2013 From: des at EFALKMEDIA.COM (EMFalk) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 22:53:36 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [Up-Tight] A Disease With A Long Incubation: Blue =?utf-8?Q?=C3=96yster_Cult=E2=80=99s_?=Imaginos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Awesome Article! Brought me back 25 years and back again. Thanks! --Eric On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 22:11:07 -0400, Gary Shindler wrote: > Sent from my iPad > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Up-Tight-owner at yahoogroups.com >> Date: July 24, 2013, 5:48:01 AM CDT >> To: Up-Tight at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [Up-Tight] A Disease With A Long Incubation: Blue ?yster >> Cult?s Imaginos >> Reply-To: Up-Tight at yahoogroups.com >> >> "Joseph Stannard charts the protracted gestation of B?C's most fearless >> gesture, Imaginos, which turns 25 this month, and recalls the impact it >> had on him as a teenager." >> >> http://thequietus.com/articles/12881-blue-oyster-cult-imaginos-review-anniversary >> >> Al >> >> __._,_.___ >> Reply via web post Reply to >> sender Reply to group >> Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) >> RECENT ACTIVITY: >> Visit Your Group >> >> Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use ? Send >> us Feedback >> . >> >> __,_._,___ > -- ?Sometimes life is merely a matter of coffee and whatever intimacy a cup of coffee affords.? ?Richard Brautigan From martyn_white_2003 at YAHOO.COM Fri Jul 26 00:36:50 2013 From: martyn_white_2003 at YAHOO.COM (martyn white) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 21:36:50 -0700 Subject: Lemmy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I unearthed this great chat with Lemmy.? Its worth a read! http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue14/mothead1.html ________________________________ From: Carl Edlund Anderson To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Lemmy On 24 Jul 2013, at 22:39 , martyn white wrote: > > It was the biggest mistake ever by Hawkwind to dismiss this man! That might be true -- though, as Brock has (rather ruefully, methinks) observed, it worked out reasonably well for Lemmy in the end! ;) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From cea at CARLAZ.COM Fri Jul 26 09:27:22 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 08:27:22 -0500 Subject: Lemmy In-Reply-To: <1374813410.45436.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 25 Jul 2013, at 23:36 , martyn white wrote: > > I unearthed this great chat with Lemmy. Its worth a read! > http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue14/mothead1.html Of course it's good: Scott did it, and threw in my question about pickups -- clearly the most critical issue being discussed ... ;) Obviously Gibson _does_ make pickups for the current Thunderbird basses, but they're different than the ones in the early '70s. However you can, if so inclined, find people who custom make reproductions of the '70s Tbird pups. However, Lemmy is also perfectly right that Rickenbacker make quite good stock pickups these days. I recently put Rickenbacker HB1 pickups in my '70s 4001, and they're a big improvement over the old Seymour Duncan humbucker that had been in there previously. Lemmy's current custom 4004 models use stock Rick HB1 pickups, too (though I think he may only use the bridge pickup, with the rest just wired out!). Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From richard.lockwood at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 26 17:46:21 2013 From: richard.lockwood at GMAIL.COM (Richard Lockwood) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:46:21 +0100 Subject: Lemmy In-Reply-To: <36C15CCC-0CD3-4E19-91F2-31FFE442C222@carlaz.com> Message-ID: It's all a bit technical for me. I find that detuning your guitar and hitting it with a spanner works pretty well, whatever the pickups are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDipEjnD0F8 C'mon - you've missed me! Cheers, Rich. On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > On 25 Jul 2013, at 23:36 , martyn white > wrote: > > > > I unearthed this great chat with Lemmy. Its worth a read! > > http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue14/mothead1.html > > Of course it's good: Scott did it, and threw in my question about pickups > -- clearly the most critical issue being discussed ... ;) > > Obviously Gibson _does_ make pickups for the current Thunderbird basses, > but they're different than the ones in the early '70s. However you can, if > so inclined, find people who custom make reproductions of the '70s Tbird > pups. However, Lemmy is also perfectly right that Rickenbacker make quite > good stock pickups these days. I recently put Rickenbacker HB1 pickups in > my '70s 4001, and they're a big improvement over the old Seymour Duncan > humbucker that had been in there previously. Lemmy's current custom 4004 > models use stock Rick HB1 pickups, too (though I think he may only use the > bridge pickup, with the rest just wired out!). > > Cheers, > Carl > > -- > Carl Edlund Anderson > http://www.carlaz.com/ > From martyn_white_2003 at YAHOO.COM Fri Jul 26 23:45:54 2013 From: martyn_white_2003 at YAHOO.COM (martyn white) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 20:45:54 -0700 Subject: Lemmy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Excellent! ________________________________ From: Richard Lockwood To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Lemmy It's all a bit technical for me. I find that detuning your guitar and hitting it with a spanner works pretty well, whatever the pickups are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDipEjnD0F8 C'mon - you've missed me! Cheers, Rich. On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > On 25 Jul 2013, at 23:36 , martyn white > wrote: > > > > I unearthed this great chat with Lemmy.? Its worth a read! > > http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue14/mothead1.html > > Of course it's good: Scott did it, and threw in my question about pickups > -- clearly the most critical issue being discussed ... ;) > > Obviously Gibson _does_ make pickups for the current Thunderbird basses, > but they're different than the ones in the early '70s. However you can, if > so inclined, find people who custom make reproductions of the '70s Tbird > pups.? However, Lemmy is also perfectly right that Rickenbacker make quite > good stock pickups these days.? I recently put Rickenbacker HB1 pickups in > my '70s 4001, and they're a big improvement over the old Seymour Duncan > humbucker that had been in there previously.? Lemmy's current custom 4004 > models use stock Rick HB1 pickups, too (though I think he may only use the > bridge pickup, with the rest just wired out!). > > Cheers, > Carl > > -- > Carl Edlund Anderson > http://www.carlaz.com/ > From cea at CARLAZ.COM Fri Jul 26 23:56:53 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:56:53 -0500 Subject: Lemmy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 26 Jul 2013, at 16:46 , Richard Lockwood wrote: > > I find that detuning your guitar and hitting it with a spanner works pretty > well, whatever the pickups are. Shhhhhh! Yer giving away ALL the secrets! ;) -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From jguizar at STNY.RR.COM Sat Jul 27 17:01:14 2013 From: jguizar at STNY.RR.COM (Jerry G) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:01:14 -0400 Subject: OFF: Bandcamp In-Reply-To: <51EF0408.2060700@kalyr.com> Message-ID: I see Oresund Space Collective has been putting a lot of their older concerts up on bandcamp lately (6 Euros). I'm not sure how many are also on archive.org, but I had some extra cash and figured why not support the band. http://oresundspacecollective.bandcamp.com/ Don't know how many know Nick Toone - he got some airplay on Alchemical Radio (2003/2004). He has a new album on bandcamp. Heavy instrumental psych. http://heavyrelic.bandcamp.com/album/heavy-relic Jerry From pamwheaton at CABLEONE.NET Sat Jul 27 17:04:25 2013 From: pamwheaton at CABLEONE.NET (Cliff) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 15:04:25 -0600 Subject: OFF: Bandcamp In-Reply-To: <51F4351A.9050808@stny.rr.com> Message-ID: the Legendary Pink Dots have alot up there as well :) Pam On 7/27/2013 3:01 PM, Jerry G wrote: > I see Oresund Space Collective has been putting a lot of their > older concerts up on bandcamp lately (6 Euros). I'm not sure > how many are also on archive.org, but I had some extra cash and > figured why not support the band. > > http://oresundspacecollective.bandcamp.com/ > > Don't know how many know Nick Toone - he got some airplay on > Alchemical Radio (2003/2004). He has a new album on bandcamp. > Heavy instrumental psych. > > http://heavyrelic.bandcamp.com/album/heavy-relic > > Jerry From jguizar at STNY.RR.COM Sat Jul 27 17:54:48 2013 From: jguizar at STNY.RR.COM (Jerry G) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:54:48 -0400 Subject: OFF: Bandcamp In-Reply-To: <51F435D9.8070105@cableone.net> Message-ID: Saw them when I checked out Christians' collection a while back. Lamp Of The Universe is there (already have all the CD's but bought one just to put it on my list). Bevis Frond is also there - waiting for their new one to show up. R.A.I.G. has a few albums including the latest Vespero and Re-Stoned. I've seen a few smaller labels putting content up as well. It looks like more people are starting to explore other avenues for revenue. Re-Stoned and Vespero http://raig.bandcamp.com/album/the-re-stoned-re-session-v-2 http://raig.bandcamp.com/album/vespero-droga Jerry On 7/27/2013 5:04 PM, Cliff wrote: > the Legendary Pink Dots have alot up there as well :) > Pam > > On 7/27/2013 3:01 PM, Jerry G wrote: >> I see Oresund Space Collective has been putting a lot of their >> older concerts up on bandcamp lately (6 Euros). I'm not sure >> how many are also on archive.org, but I had some extra cash and >> figured why not support the band. >> >> http://oresundspacecollective.bandcamp.com/ >> >> Don't know how many know Nick Toone - he got some airplay on >> Alchemical Radio (2003/2004). He has a new album on bandcamp. >> Heavy instrumental psych. >> >> http://heavyrelic.bandcamp.com/album/heavy-relic >> >> Jerry From anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM Sat Jul 27 18:45:24 2013 From: anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM (Abra Cadabra) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 00:45:24 +0200 Subject: CD shelves. better be better, it is much better now, the best. Message-ID: I ahve 6 massive CD shelves on my living room wall containing between 3-4 000 CDs. So i was going over it, first is the Hawkwind & spinoffs and relations, all the Prog, Floyd, Krautrock, Eat Static & Ozrics, YaHoWha 13, Zolar X, The Legendary Pink Dots & Relations, Christian Death, ASF, US Christimas, Savage Republic and Vas Deferens Organisation and Mooseheart Faith, The Smell Of Incense, Tangled Edge, the scandinavia section as it were, also having ?resund Space Collective, on top Deviants/Fairies+solo (Wallis, Farren, Colquohon). Going farther, Paul Roland, Zodiac Mindwarp, Deep Freeze Mice, Jad Wio up on the top right. How nice, i love just LOOKING at my awesome CD shelves. Farther down, Bevis Frond, Porcupine Tree+Wilson solo, Marillion, Chameleons, Magic Muscle and Radiohead. The Neo prog selection below with complete Twelfth Night, Pallas, some IQ remasters, sandwiched between Dead Can Dance remasters, Candlemass remasters, complete Cradle of Filth, Mayhem and Burzum, skip on over to the huge Stranglers section, my complete Damned collection and THEN suddenly.. 9 Skrewdriver CDs. I thought well, it IS OI! punk but does it have a place here? I looked at my growing pile of Steve Hillage remasters and thought of my Gong / Canterbury collection being so vastly unrepresented on these shelves. So i went to the boxes by my balcony where all the discs i could not fit on my shelves were full of the second rate collection, and there i dug out all my Here & Now CDs. So, H&N and Hillage took the place sandwiched between The Damned and The Flamin Groovies where the Skrewdriver CDs once stood. Good riddance to Ian Stuart Donaldsons merry men of the Swastika for a different way with such symbols in a more peaceful arrangement on my shelf. All this is above my complete Monster Magnet, Spiritual Beggars, Orange Goblin, Elevators/Roky, Cathedral, Fu Manchu, Fuzztones, Spacemen 3/Spiritualized/Sonic Boom sections, next to my Manilla Road, Pentagram, Astra, Witchcraft, Iced Earth and Bolt Thrower section on the bottom right. This is a fantastic CD collection and just half of what i have in my punk and classic rock and indie shelves and boxes. I still listen to Skrewdriver when the beer is flowing and i feel rowdy, but Here & Now and Steve Hillage, just had to go in there, even if separate from all teh Gong, Allen, PMG, Gongzilla et. al in the back room. I love myself and my shelf, and my lovely CD collection. I also have abit of vinyl and just yesterday played Mayhem "Live In Marseille 2000" 2LP ltd. to 500 copies only, my FAVORITE blackmetal album bar none. Imagine Mayhems usually shitty albums recorded to kick ass with stellar production, a blast! Fantastic lab of vinyl i treasure the most. Just today i got the RSD 2013 "KoS/MH" 7" and its nice though just abit spartan in packaging, just a PS and the record, no inner. Oh well. ONWARD I MARCH TO SKINHEAD POWER HERE AND NOW! Regards a Hairy / Fairy Krisna From jjarrett at CORIOLIS.GREENEND.ORG.UK Mon Jul 29 09:48:24 2013 From: jjarrett at CORIOLIS.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jonathan Jarrett) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 14:48:24 +0100 Subject: OFF: Mick Farren's last stand Message-ID: Dear all, I hate to be the one to announce this, and maybe you already heard, but the arch-Deviant has breathed his last: http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/71701 It may not have been the way he'd have most liked to go, but surely in his top three at least? Small comfort for a counter-culture that still needed him, though. I managed to see him with the Deviants earlier this year or late last year, with Scott Heller and Andy Gilham, and he wasn't at all well then, but about the last thing he said to that crowd was, "Let's do this again real soon" and I'm glad he acted on that, I guess, but if he hadn't, maybe he'd still be alive... Food for thought, sorry for bad news, yours all, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett "There is scarce any tradition or popular error Medievalist historian but stands also delivered by some good author." Oxford (Sir Thomas Browne, "Pseudodoxia Epidemica", 1646) From cea at CARLAZ.COM Mon Jul 29 12:09:35 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 11:09:35 -0500 Subject: OFF: Mick Farren's last stand In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 29 Jul 2013, at 08:48 , Jonathan Jarrett wrote: > > I hate to be the one to announce this, and maybe you already heard, but the arch-Deviant has breathed his last: > http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/71701 > It may not have been the way he'd have most liked to go, but surely in his top three at least? Small comfort for a counter-culture that still needed him, though. I managed to see him with the Deviants earlier this year or late last year, with Scott Heller and Andy Gilham, and he wasn't at all well then, but about the last thing he said to that crowd was, "Let's do this again real soon" and I'm glad he acted on that, I guess, but if he hadn't, maybe he'd still be alive... Food for thought, sorry for bad news Yes, I saw this in multiple palces on FB the other day. Sad to loose such a great guy -- but, _respect_: Whatta way to go! Literally died with his boots on, rocking to the end. A larger than life figure and, in that sense, still with us: a poet, a gentleman, a rocker. Thanks for everything, Mick, and catch ya later! Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Mon Jul 29 15:12:01 2013 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:12:01 -0700 Subject: OFF: Music player advice, Return of... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Folks... As you might remember, I'm in the process of going to some sort of digital music playback for routine listening in our house, including (or even primarily) for my Mom's music collection.? I've got (the ripping of) her collection virtually done now, about 600 discs, plus or minus, plus some rare LP and cassette stuff that I converted to AAC with Audacity some months/years ago.? Her collection is roughly 52 GB, give or take. So now I'm ready for serious shopping opportunities, as all her CDs are packed now for the move, and not intended to be unpacked on the other end (until/unless needed).? After giving up on the idea of an actual stereo component-style digital player (the one we discussed not being AAC-compliant, I've already forgotten its name), I've focussed on tablets or iTouches as an option.? The iTouch itself has the negatives of being rather small (4" display), and an Apple product (iTunes) (although I guess XBMC could potentially operate it??), and is rather expensive ($400) for the necessary memory (64GB).? That said, it offers that much internal storage, unlike most tablets with flash-only memory. The Nexus7 seems like a decent option, as they are being sold at a discount ($180 or so) due to the new version coming out soon.? However, their maximum storage seems to be 32GB (even for the next rollout?), and they don't have expandable storage via SD-micro from what I can tell. So now I'm looking at the Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0, which is being offered for $200.? It's only 8 GB internal storage, but has a SD-micro drive that can offer a lot more effective storage.? And here's the rub....Wikipedia and Amazon insist that it takes a 64 GB micro SD card, but Samsung's own specs page (including the official PDF manual) for the device insists its compatible only with a 32GB card.? What's the deal here?? How can it be both?? Or what could cause the discrepancy?? This is rather important of course.? I gather it's a software thing, the card is the same size after all.? I need to figure this out before I order/buy one. Like the Nexus7, it seems to dock landscape-style, and the docks are ridiculously cheap (like $3) - how can that be?? I would of course have to spend $50 on a 64GB SD card, and then also get some kind of USB adapter (they seem cheap too...less than $10).? SD chips I think of a camera battery cards, and I've only ever used them in a "one-way reader", but I imagine that the new adapters are two-way things that allow for writing onto the card, which is of course what I'll need to do.? Plus, I have to figure out how to get the formatting right (FAT instead of, what is it...NFTC or something?).? The manual also suggests it is compatible with AAC (MP4) audio, but then it says it depends on the op software, which is Android "4.1.2 Jelly Bean."? Anybody know if that is indeed the case?? Again, I intend to download XBMC and try that out as a player, but I won't bother until I get the device in my hand and get all this physical work done on the house. So, I'm leaning towards this device at the moment, unless someone tells me that it would be a disaster for any reason.? (The HP Slate 7 is also on sale here, but it seems definitely limited to 32 GB cards, so I want to hold out for the true 64 GB capability.) The wifi aspect I need to figure out at some point, but I am so ignorant about what to do/how it works, that I'll hold off on that at the moment.? It looks like a router is in the $50-$80 range...is that all I need?? The fact that a tablet (and our TV and my Mom's Kindle) has internal wifi capability just means that it will pick up signals either near of far of a certain strength.? I need the home router to put my external drive(s) on this desktop computer into use elsewhere in the house obviously...don't know how simple (and troublefree) that is until I try it. Anyway, it looks like I can get it done for the less-than-$400 I was budgeting for the project....that's good news. Thanks for any more advice...Keith H. From cea at CARLAZ.COM Mon Jul 29 15:42:23 2013 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 14:42:23 -0500 Subject: OFF: Music player advice, Return of... In-Reply-To: <1375125121.6743.YahooMailNeo@web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 29 Jul 2013, at 14:12 , Keith Henderson wrote: > > iTouches as an option. The iTouch itself has the negatives of being rather small (4" display), and an Apple product (iTunes) (although I guess XBMC could potentially operate it??), and is rather expensive ($400) for the necessary memory (64GB). That said, it offers that much internal storage, unlike most tablets with flash-only memory. I fear I-m fairly ignorant about the Samsung devices, but what the heck is an "iTouch"? Do you mean an Apple "iPod Touch"? Or are they marketing that as an "iTouch" now? If that _is_ what you are talking about, isn't that device basically an iPhone without the phone? IMO, a phone-sized screen is handy for the pocket, but a bit small for something you plan to use as a control surface and that never leaves the house. Equally, surely it can't hold more than about 64GB, which would be a bit low for a lossless music collection of any size (though if you're compressing, then there's room for a good number of songs, I suspect). Course, if this is just for your mom's 52GB collection, then no problem. Anyway, I had sort of had it in my head that you were looking to _store_ audio files on some relatively hefty storage device (basically a big HD) and then get some kind of system that would allow you to play them, probably with some kind of separate touch-screen device as a UI. Seems like are actually looking for an all-in-one storage + play-back thing ... though that essentially streams over wifi from the device to external receiver/speakers? Honestly, if you are just focused on letting your mom playback a 52GB collection, buy her an G4GB iPod touch (while they still make them!) and whatever random compatible speaker-dock the shop likewise has. Then she can listen on headphones or through the dock's speakers, and that may well be sufficient for her. (It's sufficient for me, most of the time! :) ) Just keep a backup of her music in case she loses the iPod, or its gets corrupted for some reason, or whatever. On the other hand, if you are looking for playing back a larger collection based on lossless files in the house .... well, that's probably a different story that wants a different conclusion! Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From maryann.sullivan1 at VERIZON.NET Mon Jul 29 19:30:28 2013 From: maryann.sullivan1 at VERIZON.NET (mary ann sullivan) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:30:28 -0400 Subject: Boston show Message-ID: Anyone who wants to get in touch for the show here contact us off list? Thanks, and I've been off line because of this temperamental computer. I'm back for now. Mary From fofp at STAFFMAIL.ED.AC.UK Tue Jul 30 06:46:50 2013 From: fofp at STAFFMAIL.ED.AC.UK (Mike Holmes) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:46:50 +0100 Subject: OFF: Music player advice, Return of... In-Reply-To: <1375125121.6743.YahooMailNeo@web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 29/07/2013 20:12, Keith Henderson wrote: > Hey Folks... Hey, I can answer some of this. I broke my Galazy tab 7 inch (version 1) and borrowed a Galaxy Tab 7 inch (version 3) while I was fixing it. > So now I'm looking at the Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0, which is being offered for $200. It's only 8 GB internal > storage, but has a SD-micro drive that can offer a lot more effective storage. And here's the rub....Wikipedia > and Amazon insist that it takes a 64 GB micro SD card, but Samsung's own specs page (including the official PDF > manual) for the device insists its compatible only with a 32GB card. What's the deal here? How can it be both? I used a 32Gb card with both. Never tried a 64Gb. > Or what could cause the discrepancy? This is rather important of course. I gather it's a software thing, the > card is the same size after all. I need to figure this out before I order/buy one. Yes, it will be a hardware or software constraint on the tab side. > Like the Nexus7, it seems to dock landscape-style, and the docks are ridiculously cheap (like $3) - how can > that be? Mass manufacturing? The thing that annoyed me about version 3 was that it didn't have an HDMI output on the dock such as version 1 did. It's basically why I repaired the version 1 screen rather than move to the new version. It won't affect the music side of things though. > I would of course have to spend $50 on a 64GB SD card, and then also get some kind of USB adapter (they > seem cheap too...less than $10). I'd have thought so. I bought a few for bedroom/office/car so that I don't have to carry them around much. > SD chips I think of a camera battery cards, and I've only ever used them in a > "one-way reader", but I imagine that the new adapters are two-way things that allow for writing onto the card, Connect your tab to a 'puter via USD and you can read/write as if it's an external drive. The SD card shows as a separate external drive to the tab main memory. Samsung has a special proggy called Kies to do all this, but I find it twiddly and annoying and just use the Win 7 interface. > which is of course what I'll need to do. Plus, I have to figure out how to get the formatting right (FAT instead > of, what is it...NFTC or something?). NTFS? If you just copy the files over to the SD card, the system will take care of all that. > The manual also suggests it is compatible with AAC (MP4) audio, but then > it says it depends on the op software, which is Android "4.1.2 Jelly Bean." Anybody know if that is indeed the > case? I believe that even on the version 1 tab that I've been playing MP4 movies. Does that mean that MP4 audio works? I know that it's fairly fussy about movie formats though and I have to get the settings dead right when copying them onto the tab. > So, I'm leaning towards this device at the moment, unless someone tells me that it would be a disaster for any > reason. I like both Galaxy tabs, though my uses for the device possibly differ from yours: * Reading the web on the move. * Downloading web pages to read when I'm not able to get to the interwebs (using Pocket). * Listening to those web pages while walking using bluetooth headphones and the text-to-speech widget. * Getting stock prices. * Getting the weather. * Linking to hotel TVs to watch movies while travelling. * Watching movies on the train * Playing Backgammon/Scrabble/Go * Downloading PDFs to read * Reading e-books * Monitoring my sleep patterns * Making phone calls * Sending text messages * Updating my office diary * Reading/sending emails Oh yeah and: * Listening to music through headphones or hifi. To be honest, I wonder how I ever lived without it. > (The HP Slate 7 is also on sale here, but it seems definitely limited to 32 GB cards, so I want to hold out > for the true 64 GB capability.) If the tab is going to stay in the house, the music doesn't actually have to be on the tab. It could be on another device in the house which is accessed by wifi through the tab and then send through the hifi. > The wifi aspect I need to figure out at some point, but I am so ignorant about what to do/how it works, that I'll > hold off on that at the moment. It looks like a router is in the $50-$80 range...is that all I need? Pretty much. Plus a phone line of course if you want to reach out to that interweb thing. > The fact that > a tablet (and our TV and my Mom's Kindle) has internal wifi capability just means that it will pick up signals either > near of far of a certain strength. Yup. Placement of the router is important. Mine is too far from the TV to be useful and so I have another pair of widgets which send the wifi through the electricity lines to the TV (bit of handwaving here but that's what it amounts to). > I need the home router to put my external drive(s) on this desktop computer into > use elsewhere in the house obviously...don't know how simple (and troublefree) that is until I try it. I'd look at connecting the 'puter to the router via an ethernet cable (better connectivity). > Anyway, it looks like I can get it done for the less-than-$400 I was budgeting for the project....that's good news. Stuff like this is getting much cheaper. The Chromecast device: http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromecast/#netflix is going to be 35 Dollars. The idea there is that the music and video is on the web and the phone/tab is used via wifi simply to tell the Chromecast where to get a signal from on the web. Once that's done, the phone/tab can be used for other things until it's time to change movie/track. This one is so far limited as to source. It still looks like a winner because it's easy though (it'll plug into a TV HDMI socket and take power from the mains, or a USB socket on the TV). That means that other companies will bring out improved versions and pretty wuickly folks will be able to access their own movie/music collections whether they're stored on the web, or on the computer in the bedroom. FoFP -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 31 05:02:34 2013 From: anacondaconan at GMAIL.COM (Abra Cadabra) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:02:34 +0200 Subject: Helios Creed "Planet X" Message-ID: HC of Chrome and Nik's US outfit. 1994 album ... his best since "Lactating Purple" and never truly topped since. "First Encounter" / "Next Encounter" and the "Ascent" with the smoking telephone lines frying the babbling Televangelist in mass call ins with Fire and Brimstone, its like a concept album. He ascends as a Spirit into the Telephone networks to be Gone, HC used to play with Nik's USA outfit with Genesis P. Orridge and the Pressurehed guys and Del and Simon House. HC is running rampant with his post-Damon Edge band, abit depressing really, but i liked "Tidal Forces: No Humans Allowed Part 2" from the late 90s. "Retro Transmission" and "Ghost Machine" albums are pretty much something to miss....... C. From jguizar at STNY.RR.COM Wed Jul 31 17:23:39 2013 From: jguizar at STNY.RR.COM (Jerry G) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 17:23:39 -0400 Subject: OFF: Music player advice, Return of... In-Reply-To: <51F7999A.30204@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 7/30/2013 6:46 AM, Mike Holmes wrote: > On 29/07/2013 20:12, Keith Henderson wrote: > >> which is of course what I'll need to do. Plus, I have to figure out >> how to get the formatting right (FAT instead >> of, what is it...NFTC or something?). > > NTFS? If you just copy the files over to the SD card, the system will > take care of all that. I came across this when looking at formatting cards for my Pi: https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/ I haven't used it yet - just make sure you (or the program) have chosen an SD card instead of a hard drive. Jerry From jguizar at STNY.RR.COM Wed Jul 31 17:30:17 2013 From: jguizar at STNY.RR.COM (Jerry G) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 17:30:17 -0400 Subject: OFF: Music player advice, Return of... In-Reply-To: <51F9805B.8040200@stny.rr.com> Message-ID: Wanted to add, I've run the program but didn't format. It chose my device by default, but I could change it to the card. On 7/31/2013 5:23 PM, Jerry G wrote: > On 7/30/2013 6:46 AM, Mike Holmes wrote: >> On 29/07/2013 20:12, Keith Henderson wrote: >> >>> which is of course what I'll need to do. Plus, I have to figure out >>> how to get the formatting right (FAT instead >>> of, what is it...NFTC or something?). >> >> NTFS? If you just copy the files over to the SD card, the system will >> take care of all that. > > I came across this when looking at formatting cards for my Pi: > > https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/ > > I haven't used it yet - just make sure you (or the program) have > chosen an SD card instead of a hard drive. > > Jerry >