From cea at CARLAZ.COM Fri Apr 1 04:49:50 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:49:50 +0100 Subject: dr. who In-Reply-To: <005901c53641$091f5670$6565a8c0@sherlock> Message-ID: On 31-Mar-2005 23:28, Jill Strobridge wrote: > Alan Davies > >> eddie izzard Me! OK, I'm not English -- or any good -- but I promise to make lots of sly Hawkwind and BOC references whilst twirling my sonic screwdriver :) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From iainferguson at AOL.COM Fri Apr 1 04:57:02 2005 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:57:02 +0100 Subject: dr. who In-Reply-To: <424D193E.8030801@carlaz.com> Message-ID: well, I reacon that Dave Brock could be the Dr. And Lemmy his sidekick... and instead of a sonic screwdriver they could use their music to defend the galaxys.. ohhh hasn't that already been done iain bout time we heard about an outdoor hawkwind gig i reacon Carl Edlund Anderson wrote on 4/1/2005, 10:49 AM: > On 31-Mar-2005 23:28, Jill Strobridge wrote: > > Alan Davies > > > >> eddie izzard > > Me! OK, I'm not English -- or any good -- but I promise to make lots of > sly Hawkwind and BOC references whilst twirling my sonic screwdriver :) > > Cheers, > Carl > > -- > Carl Edlund Anderson > http://www.carlaz.com/ > From cea at CARLAZ.COM Fri Apr 1 05:40:57 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:40:57 +0100 Subject: OFF: Hibachi Dealers, Bishops Stortford UK, tonight (01 April 2005) Message-ID: It's like an April Fools joke, but real ;) The Hibachi Dealers (little band I play in) are performing their first "non-hometown" away gig at The Half Moon, 31 North Street, Bishop Stortford, UK tonight (01 April 2005). I think we're the second of three bands (still not sure how we're not bottom of the bill!) going on around 9.30pm, apparently. Tonight sees the debut of our new keyboard player and a dedicated backing vocalist. (Most bands try to keep membership down so as to split the proceeds fewer ways, but we try to boost membership so as to split the costs of renting rehearsal space more ways! :) There's a (short) schedule of futher upcoming Dealers gigs on my web site: Yeah, OK, I know there's not really any point in posting this to BOC-L, but I'll take the opportunity to encourage everyone to go out and support live'n'local music :) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Fri Apr 1 13:18:29 2005 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:18:29 +0200 Subject: NIK: Space Ritual added to Burg Herzberg lineup... Message-ID: Well, that's the whole message....except to say that they'll be playing Friday night, as the 'late night' act presumably. See you there. Grakkl (FAA) From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Fri Apr 1 13:25:13 2005 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:25:13 +0200 Subject: OFF: The previous message... Message-ID: was the truth (Nik really is playing at Burg Herzberg), But just to acknowledge today's date in some partly relevant way...I just had to forward this gem. Grakkl (FAA) P.S. Unfortunately, Dr. Marley wasn't born on Gallifrey and therefore cannot regenerate himself. BBC asks long-dead Bob Marley for interview LONDON (AFP) - A red-faced BBC apologised for requesting an interview with Bob Marley, the Jamaican reggae legend who died 24 years ago. BBC Three, one of the public broadcaster's digital TV channels, sent an e-mail to the Bob Marley Foundation saying it wanted to do a documentary about his hit song "No Woman No Cry". It said the project would involve Marley -- who died of cancer in May 1981 at the age of 36 -- "spending one or two days with us", and that "it would only work with some participation from Bob Marley himself". In a statement, the BBC said: "We are obviously very embarrassed that we didn't realise that the letter to the Marley Foundation did not acknowledge that Mr Marley is no longer with us." Marley would have been 60 last February 6, a date that was celebrated with great fanfare by his legion of fans worldwide. A BBC press officer, contacted by AFP in London on Friday, confirmed that the gaffe was not an April Fool's joke. From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Fri Apr 1 14:10:06 2005 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:10:06 +0200 Subject: HW: Tickets for the UK shows... Message-ID: Hey Folks... Um...previous tours I've been able to purchase tickets on the web and have them left for me at the venue (I *would* say 'will call' but my experience at the Astoria last year tells me that nobody in the UK knows what this expression means...don't know what you call the window where pre-purchased tickets are retrieved, but in the US, this is it). Anyway, it seems that for at least the Mi'ilsbro' Wolver'ampton and Nott'n'hm shows, according to the links given at hawkwind.com, I have only the option of having tickets sent by mail. Which is rather difficult at the moment for me, because I don't have an actual address anymore. As of today in fact, I'm effectively homeless and will remain so for the next four months. Ticketweb allowed me to choose the pick-up option, but they're only handling the Sheffield show. So...does anybody have any suggestions about how I could pre-order tickets for these three shows? I have no idea how large any of these halls are, so I have no idea to judge whether sell outs are possible/likely. Usually I like to have the tickets 'in hand' (even if only in a virtual sense, ie., at the venue) if I'm going to be traveling all that way for the shows. Is anybody else going to be ordering tickets for all of these shows by any chance, and could order an extra one (each) for me, and meet me at the first show (Middlesbrough)? Or does anybody actually live in the area around Newcastle (or points immediately south), and I could order them myself and use your address to have them mailed (as long as that doesn't invalidate my cc order, 'cause I don't actually live there...I'll have to see if that will even work). Anyway, thanks for any ideas. Grakkl (FAA) P.S. I'm learning that it's difficult to not 'live anywhere.' Every time you try to do *anything* (esp. get health insurance*), you have to give somebody your address, and not having one makes people look at you funny and then make you explain what the heck you're trying to pull. It was bad enough not having a phone... *finally made that happen! From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 1 14:34:41 2005 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:34:41 +0100 Subject: HW: Roadburn Festival Message-ID: We have just received confirmation that the Litmus set at the 10th Roadburn Festival on April 9th is going to be filmed for broadcast via VPRO 3voor12 WebTV. More details will be available from http://www.roadburn.com and http://3voor12.vpro.nl/3voor12/festivals/index/index.jsp?portal=2534202&even t=21711857 Both live and on-demand streams are planned of both audio and video. Litmus are on stage at 18:00 UK time. Colin From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Fri Apr 1 15:42:20 2005 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:42:20 +0200 Subject: OFF: Gigs by Spacious Mind, Hidria Spacefolk Message-ID: Hey... If anybody hears about gigs/tours by these two bands in the spring/summer, could somebody post them to the list? Thanks! I can't find any kind of official webpage for Spacious Mind, and Scott H. told me they are getting ready to play some shows somewhere. Plus, Hidria Spacefolk I've just heard might be playing in W?rzburg Germany this summer, and their webpage is not being updated at the moment 'cause they're webmaster is in Morocco, so we'll need some grassroots communication to succeed here in getting the word out, I guess. Sorry for so many off-topic posts today, but I think some of you might actually care about these bands, so... Grakkl (FAA) From chrisr at TIAC.NET Fri Apr 1 21:12:14 2005 From: chrisr at TIAC.NET (Chris Raymond) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:12:14 -0500 Subject: Off: Gigs by Spacious Mind, Hidria Spacefolk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try this for the Spacious Mind. A list member just pointed this to me yesterday. No mention of gigs yet though. http://www.countrymanrecords.com/ Chris R. -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Henderson Keith Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:42 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: OFF: Gigs by Spacious Mind, Hidria Spacefolk Hey... If anybody hears about gigs/tours by these two bands in the spring/summer, could somebody post them to the list? Thanks! I can't find any kind of official webpage for Spacious Mind, and Scott H. told me they are getting ready to play some shows somewhere. Plus, Hidria Spacefolk I've just heard might be playing in W?rzburg Germany this summer, and their webpage is not being updated at the moment 'cause they're webmaster is in Morocco, so we'll need some grassroots communication to succeed here in getting the word out, I guess. Sorry for so many off-topic posts today, but I think some of you might actually care about these bands, so... Grakkl (FAA) From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Sat Apr 2 12:32:32 2005 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:32:32 -0800 Subject: OFF: Testing... Message-ID: the 'new' account. Nothing else to see here. Grakkl (FAA) P.S. Oh wait...I bought the new Porcupine Tree CD yesterday. Not too bad...no real progress since the last one, rather similar in style/feel, but I like it well enough. Track One is another killer metal track, but Track Five is the real highlight. But I doubt there's a hit single here that's going to put PT over the top into worldwide stardom or anything. Which perhaps is a good thing? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/ From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Sat Apr 2 13:15:44 2005 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:15:44 -0800 Subject: OFF: Spacious Mind/Moonshake Festival Message-ID: Hej pa dig... By coincidence (searching for info on Avarus), I found out one place that Spacious Mind will be playing. It's way the hell up near their hometown, but I've decided to try to make the trip anyway (hell, I've got nothing else to do). It's the Moonshake Festival on May 7th in Umea, Sweden, and also features the bands Avarus (Finland) and the Magic Carpathians (Czech?). Unfortunately, the website seems to be all in Swedish. Can anybody tell me what it says about getting there, obtaining tickets, camping??? Here: www.popmanifest.net/moonshake So, Avarus is a band that people on the krautrock list are suggesting is really cool. I'm planning to pick up one of their CDs if I can find a way. Anybody here have anything to say about them? Anyway, that's it for now. (The HW show in Bergen, NO is just three days earlier, but I see on the map that Bergen and Umea are nowhere near each other. Oh, well, I'll see Hawkwind just a few weeks later.) Grakkl (FAA) P.S. private email is now khenders64 at yahoo.com for any nice Swedish person wanting to answer my questions above. :) Tack sa mycket. or something. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From greenhalgh.david at NTLWORLD.COM Sat Apr 2 13:58:00 2005 From: greenhalgh.david at NTLWORLD.COM (David and Manami Greenhalgh) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:58:00 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Message-ID: Does anyone know if there are still dates to be added to the tour? Nothing anywhere near me and now we have a Space Cadet (currently crying because he can't see his Mum) long hawktreks are a thing of the past. Dave PS - Must get me one of those Doctor Who iPods, so much cooler than the one I've got. I loved the idea of Cassandra being a transexual as well. From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Sat Apr 2 13:59:13 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:59:13 -0500 Subject: OFF: Spacious Mind/Moonshake Festival Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:15:44 -0800, Keith Henderson wrote: >Hej pa dig... > >By coincidence (searching for info on Avarus), I found >out one place that Spacious Mind will be playing. >It's way the hell up near their hometown, but I've >decided to try to make the trip anyway (hell, I've got >nothing else to do). It's the Moonshake Festival on >May 7th in Umea, Sweden, and also features the bands >Avarus (Finland) and the Magic Carpathians (Czech?). Poland (the northern side of the Carpathians) :^) They're well worth seeing IMHO. If you haven't gotten any information on the festival by monday, I have a Swedish co-worker who I can ask for assistance when I'm back in the office ... -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From groups at WHIRLIGIG.PLUS.COM Sat Apr 2 15:07:06 2005 From: groups at WHIRLIGIG.PLUS.COM (David Blair) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 21:07:06 +0100 Subject: HW: Tickets for the UK shows... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In article , Henderson Keith writes >Is anybody else going to be ordering tickets for all of these shows by any >chance, and could order an extra one (each) for me, and meet me at the first >show (Middlesbrough)? Or does anybody actually live in the area around >Newcastle (or points immediately south), and I could order them myself and >use your address to have them mailed (as long as that doesn't invalidate my >cc order, 'cause I don't actually live there...I'll have to see if that will >even work). > >Anyway, thanks for any ideas. I live about 10 miles North of Newcastle - I won't be seeing them on this tour, but you can have the tickets sent to my address if you want -- David Blair From stemfors at PIPELINE.COM Sat Apr 2 15:37:45 2005 From: stemfors at PIPELINE.COM (Stephan Forstner) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:37:45 -0500 Subject: OFF: Spacious Mind/Moonshake Festival Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:15:44 -0800, Keith Henderson wrote: >So, Avarus is a band that people on the krautrock list >are suggesting is really cool. I'm planning to pick >up one of their CDs if I can find a way. Anybody here >have anything to say about them? Most of their material is a loose, somewhat free-form, acousticky-sounding folk-shaman-noise type of thing, I would categorise it in with the likes of No Neck Blues Band and Sunburned Hand of the Man. All these guys can make Amon Duul I sound composed/structured/accessible, so tho I like em I'm not sure I would recommend them without a prior listen to test the waters. Avarus does have at least one release of electric space-rock which is really great, like an early Hawkwind repetitive jam. aquariusrecords.org has plenty of samples, enough to give a good idea. Stephan P.S. which krautrock list? From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Sat Apr 2 15:50:50 2005 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:50:50 -0800 Subject: OFF: Spacious Mind/Moonshake Festival In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: Stephan asked... > P.S. which krautrock list? krautrockII at yahoogroups.com Grakkl (FAA) P.S. Thanks for the comments. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/ From ketil.svendsen at FISKAREN.NHST.NO Sun Apr 3 05:10:29 2005 From: ketil.svendsen at FISKAREN.NHST.NO (Ketil Svendsen) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:10:29 +0200 Subject: Hawkwind in Bergen In-Reply-To: <200504021001.j32A02aM018022@www.ispnetinc.net> Message-ID: Coming to beautiful Bergen to see Hawkwind May the 4th? :-) Let me know if I can be of help (locating accomodation etc) This will get fun! :-) :-) :-) :-) best, Ketil Svendsen, Bergen, Norway ps. the Hawkwind site states the airport "appr. 15 minutes from downtown Bergen". Yeah, if you've got a bl**dy space craft ;-) From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Sun Apr 3 09:53:56 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:53:56 +0100 Subject: dr. who In-Reply-To: <008101c533a8$1ec13cf0$12274d51@SN037539420006> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Ian Abrahams wrote: > Yes, I saw that, maybe the Master but I suspect that Davros is now long > gone... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David and Manami Greenhalgh" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:05 PM > > I wouldn't be so sure. the Radio Times carries a teaser along the lines > > of in Episode (something - I forget) The Doctor meets someone he > > thought was long dead. Surely either Davros or The Master? Perhaps he could be due to run into a former incarnation of himself? That might have interesting possibilities... Yours, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sun Apr 3 10:09:47 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:09:47 +0100 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Jarrett" > > Perhaps he could be due to run into a former incarnation of > himself? That might have interesting possibilities... Yours, > Jon Oh God I hope not. That was done cleverly *once* and really should never have been done again. And another bit of nonsense was jettisoned last night from the programme! This new series is quickly finding its feet and its identity, very promising stuff. Ian From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Sun Apr 3 13:17:40 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:17:40 +0100 Subject: Blasphemy: which Nik? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Stephan Forstner wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 11:46:03 +0100, M Holmes wrote: > >Can someone in the know please tell us which of the recordings involving > >Nik and the sundry ex-members of Hawkwind are good ones involving a > >reasonable smattering of Hawkwind tracks? > > > >It might also be useful to list which ones to absolutely avoid. > > I'm not in the know, but I've got a handful of these - I assume you mean > just the recent post-2000 stuff, which has been primarily Hawkwind tracks. > I think that to date there have only been 2 official releases, both on > Ozit, the first being the '2001 A Space Odyssey Live' double silver-CD > release, and the second being the 'Live at Glastonbury and Guildford 2002' > CD-R. Space Odyssey was (rightly) raked over the coals for its sub-bootleg > quality sound so its probably not a good choice. I thought G&G was flawed > but worthy, so I lean toward a yes on that one, I liked it quite a bit at > the time. Apparently there is a 3rd release coming soon, another live disc > called Live at the Cygnian Electric Ballroom on Venus or something like > that which supposedly features the usual tracks but promises to be better > quality than either of the 2 preceding releases, AndyG might have more info > as I got the news via one of his mailings. Note also that Nik supports > trading and there have been several shows distributed on NeoQuark with > sound quality much better than Space Odyssey and almost as good or as good > as G&G. I have to admit I didn't think very much of the Glastonbury/Guildford one. Apart from the *lousy* editing, dropping you in and out of the middle of jams (in one case you get the `Thunder Rider Rap' which Nik usually precedes `Silver Machine' with, then what is plainly the break and outtro from that track, but the actual track is left out, I guess because it would have had to bear Brock's credit on it, and no attempt other than a two-second gap is made to cover the transition. The sound is rough live/good bootleg but no better. A couple of the tracks (the version of John Coltrane's `Blue Train' for instance) are interesting but mainly what you get is fairly monotonous blanga, and a couple of what look like new tracks are in fact just names for jams coming out of other well-known tracks. The credits are wrong too (there's more than one vocalist but no other than Nik is mentioned) but we kind of expect this. It gves an idea of why the band might be fun to see if you didn't have your expectations up, which I never do when I go and see Nik and I usually have a good time. But quality live album it isn't. I'm interested to know what the new live one will be like though, but mainly I'd like them to get their studio album out too, ideally the same day as Hawkwind's... Yours, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From senator at SENITI.UGCS.CALTECH.EDU Mon Apr 4 00:07:23 2005 From: senator at SENITI.UGCS.CALTECH.EDU (Bill Bradley) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 21:07:23 -0700 Subject: dr. who In-Reply-To: <001501c53590$f90fc450$7401a8c0@deepthought> from "Mike Montfort" at Mar 30, 2005 08:28:35 PM Message-ID: > > Would any AMERICAN Dr. Who fans please contact me offlist about an idea I > have regarding seeing the show. > > This will be the first and only message about this. > > Now returning you to your usual Hawkwind/BOC music discussions. > > Mike One word Mike, BitTorrent. Have enjoyed both episodes so far from the safety of LeftPondian. Even burned a coupla VCDs for the less computer equipped fans. Bill From shll at HAGEDORN.DK Mon Apr 4 05:05:40 2005 From: shll at HAGEDORN.DK (SHLL (Scott Heller)) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:05:40 +0200 Subject: HW: Cd news anyone?? Message-ID: Hej, IS there any news on Take me to your Leader? When I spoke to Dave Brock at Sweden Rock Festival last June, he said first single August 28th (Spirit of the Age with B-side Angela Android) and the full CD in September. Then we heard it would be Jan the single and March the full length... well.. I just finished my 4th article on hawkwind for the German magazine Moonhead and I was so disappointed that I could not include anything definitive on the new record. Management never responded to a request for just 5 answered questions from Dave on the new record to complete the article... Anyone out there????? scott www.oresundspacecollective.com From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Mon Apr 4 06:30:23 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:30:23 +0100 Subject: dr. who In-Reply-To: Ian Abrahams's message of Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:09:47 +0100 Message-ID: Ian Abrahams writes: > Oh God I hope not. That was done cleverly *once* and really should never > have been done again. And another bit of nonsense was jettisoned last night > from the programme! It's a good idea to dump the whole Gallifrey schtick as it gets back to the original Mysterious Doctor idea. Too many of the Timelord plots had the series basically crawling up its own arse. I dunno what it could really mean that the Timelords have all ben destroyed since as time-travellers, they could just go back to before the destruction and stop it. > This new series is quickly finding its feet and its identity, very > promising stuff. I liked the jukebox putting on the single. Surely an allusion to Doctor Who always following Juke Box Jury in the TV schedules back in the old days. FoFP From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Apr 4 09:10:04 2005 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Chris Allen) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:10:04 +0100 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: Actually, here's a thought - Eccleston announced publicly he was leaving, but I'm guessing he knew a long time beforehand that he didn't want to do more than one series, so if the "thought long dead" character *was* a previous incarnation of himself, would that not then open the way for Paul McGann to be positioned as the *next* regeneration? Or is that just too complex and unlikely for kids tv? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Abrahams" > > Perhaps he could be due to run into a former incarnation of > > himself? That might have interesting possibilities... Yours, > > Jon > > Oh God I hope not. That was done cleverly *once* and really should never > have been done again. And another bit of nonsense was jettisoned last night > from the programme! From akomins at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Apr 4 09:26:16 2005 From: akomins at UCHICAGO.EDU (Arin Komins) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:26:16 -0500 Subject: dr. who In-Reply-To: <200504041030.j34AUNRG026659@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, M Holmes wrote: :Subject: Re: dr. who :Ian Abrahams writes: : :> Oh God I hope not. That was done cleverly *once* and really should never :> have been done again. And another bit of nonsense was jettisoned last night :> from the programme! : :It's a good idea to dump the whole Gallifrey schtick as it gets back to :the original Mysterious Doctor idea. Too many of the Timelord plots had :the series basically crawling up its own arse. : :I dunno what it could really mean that the Timelords have all ben :destroyed since as time-travellers, they could just go back to before :the destruction and stop it. ahhh, but that violates the Laws of Time. (Of course, they've violated laws of time in the past, but eh, just being geeky.) As for me, I'll beg to differ. I *liked* Gallifrey and being able to see into the Doctor's past. I always thought it helped in Doctor character development to see the things that he was rebelling against. Made him...well, more understandable. ("mysterious doctor", notwithstanding ;-) ). Mainly, I think I'm a bit upset at the ....suddenness of it all. I would have liked to have seen the story showing Gallifrey's end. I thought the iPod ref is going to date the show very quickly. Good for some cheap laughs, but that's about it. ...and I'm still trying to get used to a whole story in a 45 minute block. No wonder everything seems so damn compressed. Arin (still adjusting) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Arin Komins akomins at uchicago.edu Assistant Director/ENSS University of Chicago/NSIT/ENSS tel: (773)834-4087 1155 E. 60th St. #418 Chicago, IL 60637 fax: (773)702-0559 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From akomins at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Apr 4 09:33:55 2005 From: akomins at UCHICAGO.EDU (Arin Komins) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:33:55 -0500 Subject: dr. who In-Reply-To: <200503311616.j2VGG2Qj024175@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, M Holmes wrote: :Subject: Re: dr. who : :Ian Abrahams writes: : :> How would Bill Nighy go down with the target audience though? : :He's the right age. He's eccentric. He's quintessentially British. He'd be a good alternate to Eccleston. imho, regenerations are best when the doctors in question are very different from each other, and Tenant is just too....young. :Good decision to keep the Tardis and the update to the internals is :fine. Reprising the Companion as a Buffy character is inevitable, and :will probably prove a hit with preteen girlies. I've been liking the very steampunk look to the new TARDIS console room. (BTW, for those of you going to Worldcon in Glasgow this year, they are supposed to have the old TARDIS console room on display.) :What they absolutely have to do is reprise UNIT as a modern :take-no-prisoners SAS squad with a bit of Spooks thrown in, though the :Leftbridge-Stewart replacement should probably have a bit of the :eccentric old Colonel in him. Yeah, that would rock. Plus, they still need to find an excuse to have Nicholas Courtney make a guest appearance, if only so that he can appear with all the doctors ;-) (He showed up with McGann in one of the BF audios) :All in all though, I'd rather have seen them do Jerry Cornelius instead. :He's a hip British time-traveller after all and the whole Sixties thing :could lend the appropriate level of humour. Trips out from Time Central :could easily lend itself to an episodic format. Mind you, they probably :couldn't have Bishop Beesely bugger anyone with a Mars Bar and hope to :air it before the kids went to bed. Now that would have been fun. Arin -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Arin Komins akomins at uchicago.edu Assistant Director/ENSS University of Chicago/NSIT/ENSS tel: (773)834-4087 1155 E. 60th St. #418 Chicago, IL 60637 fax: (773)702-0559 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Apr 4 13:07:32 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:07:32 +0100 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arin Komins" To: Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:33 PM Subject: Re: dr. who > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, M Holmes wrote: > > :Subject: Re: dr. who > : > :Ian Abrahams writes: > : > :> How would Bill Nighy go down with the target audience though? > : > :He's the right age. He's eccentric. He's quintessentially British. > > He'd be a good alternate to Eccleston. imho, regenerations are best when > the doctors in question are very different from each other, and Tenant is > just too....young. Yes, but how would he go down with the target audience - they are squarely aiming this (correctly) at a young audience not a sci-fi audience (heck, that's how we've had two weeks of excellent viewing figures and audience share). Tenant is four years older than Peter Davison was when he got the role. > Yeah, that would rock. Plus, they still need to find an excuse to have > Nicholas Courtney make a guest appearance, if only so that he can appear > with all the doctors ;-) > > (He showed up with McGann in one of the BF audios) Still hoping that all that continuity baggage gets left for BF and the series itself runs free of it! Ian From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Apr 4 13:09:48 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:09:48 +0100 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Allen" To: Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:10 PM Subject: Re: dr. who > Actually, here's a thought - Eccleston announced publicly he was leaving, > but I'm guessing he knew a long time beforehand that he didn't want to do > more than one series, so if the "thought long dead" character *was* a > previous incarnation of himself, would that not then open the way for Paul > McGann to be positioned as the *next* regeneration? > Or is that just too complex and unlikely for kids tv? Too complicated, too fanboy and unlikely that McGann would want to be involved again anyway I'd have thought. But yes, I think you're right abour Eccleston - I hear that he confirmed he'd not be coming back at least three months ago and its part of the season ending game plan. Remember, when he came onboard nobody knew there would be a second season, so they got the very best actor available without worrying what *might* happen in 2006. Ian From GutterCat at AOL.COM Mon Apr 4 14:37:11 2005 From: GutterCat at AOL.COM (GutterCat at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:37:11 EDT Subject: dr. who Message-ID: In a message dated 03/04/05 14:55:41 GMT Daylight Time, jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK writes: > Perhaps he could be due to run into a former incarnation of > himself? That might have interesting possibilities It would indeed. Hartnell, Troughton or Pertwee? I think it will be The Master though... however, he has used all his regenerations. So how do they get around that? I think that is something they are going to have to update if they are to carry on with the Doctor Who series with different actors playing the part. By the way... When were all the other Time Lords wiped out? I stopped watching when it got really stoopid, licquorice allsort aliens indeed! Steve. From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Apr 4 15:13:22 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 20:13:22 +0100 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: > > I think it will be The Master though... however, he has used all his > regenerations. So how do they get around that? I think that is something they are > going to have to update if they are to carry on with the Doctor Who series with > different actors playing the part. I'm sure somebody on the production team with a pen and a bit of paper will sort that one out ok :-) > > By the way... When were all the other Time Lords wiped out? > I stopped watching when it got really stoopid, licquorice allsort aliens > indeed! Not on TV - in the 8th Doctor books so it may be an allusion to that wiothout losing the audience or it may be inspired by that but for different reasons. I think its a good move personally, and one that doesn't really need too much backstory developed as its something that can be accepted by new viewers with minimum of fuss really. Abie From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Mon Apr 4 16:43:16 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:43:16 +0100 Subject: OFF: dr. who In-Reply-To: <200503301819.j2UIJW8g013469@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, M Holmes wrote: > Since I have a Ph.D student called Linda Hu working for me, I expect to > be attending a Doctor Hu party sooner or later... Dr what? -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Mon Apr 4 20:45:49 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 20:45:49 -0400 Subject: OFF: Curse of El Charro Message-ID: Unlike the rest of the list (it seems!), I haven't been watching the new Doctor Who (although my twelve-year-old self was extremely grateful to PBS for bringing most of the Tom Baker and, uh, the next guy, the one with the celery stalk, episodes over to the states). Instead, I went to a bunch of films at San Francisco's "Fearless Tales Genre Festival" this past week, including the one in the message subject, 'The Curse Of El Charro', mostly because of the cameo appearance by one "Lemmy Kilmeister" (that's how it's spelled in the credits). The bulk of the movie was really pretty boring, un-ironically (I didn't think that was possible in the post-'Scream' era) following the standard supernatural-slasher-kills-nubile-coeds plotline (which bores me, but it looked like one genre afficianados would appreciate). Of somewhat more interest were midget bartenders, a "lounge" singer (in a wheelchair with Cerebral Palsy) doing sort of a Tom Waits-meets-Laibach number, a couple well-done flashbacks-to-the-19th-century, Tabitha Soren (apparently she's the one who hooked up the director with Lemmy) in a lesbian shower scene (sorry...), and, of course, Lemmy's bit. He plays a priest (no indication if he's a rockin' vicar) who expounds on a bunch of metaphysical nonsense for a couple minutes in an insert scene (nothing to do with the rest of the movie!). The director explained that particular scene was inspired by early German film (Dr. Caligari, Nosferatu), and he was trying to get Lemmy to wear white face makeup for the scene. Lemmy wasn't having any of that, but did agree to wear dark makeup around the eyes to make him look more sinister ... apparently at that point, he told the director, "yeah, ok, we used to do that for shows back when I was in Hawkwind". film website: http://www.americanworldpictures.com/projects/elcharro.htm -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Mon Apr 4 23:39:03 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:39:03 -0400 Subject: dr. who In-Reply-To: <1e9.3953fa14.2f82e357@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2005-04-04 at 14:37 -0400, GutterCat at AOL.COM wrote: > I think it will be The Master though... however, he has used all his > regenerations. So how do they get around that? I think that is something they are > going to have to update if they are to carry on with the Doctor Who series with > different actors playing the part. There is a BBC Three series called "Doctor Who Confidential," which is a behind-the-scenes look at the new series. In the episode about bringing back Doctor Who, they basically said they did away with regenerations because it would confuse the kiddies (the target audience). The gist I got is that anything that relies on deep continuity would be conveniently ignored/glossed over, because the target audience would not have been alive when those episodes were made and so would lack the necessary background knowledge/appreciation. They also explained that they specifically didn't want a regeneration sequence for the new Doctor as a way of making a sort of break with the past and re-introducing things anew in a way. In other words, they would adhere more to the spirit than to the letter of what had gone before. Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From cea at CARLAZ.COM Tue Apr 5 09:40:21 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:40:21 +0100 Subject: BOC/BRAIN: more iCowbell Message-ID: I just noticed that an Apple iTunes blurb points out that you can "set the built-in equalizer to manual for more cowbell"! http://www.apple.com/uk/ipod/autosync.html Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 5 09:53:49 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:53:49 +0100 Subject: BOC/BRAIN: more iCowbell In-Reply-To: Carl Edlund Anderson's message of Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:40:21 +0100 Message-ID: Carl Edlund Anderson writes: > I just noticed that an Apple iTunes blurb points out that you can "set > the built-in equalizer to manual for more cowbell"! Does it go up to Eleven? FoFP From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Tue Apr 5 14:38:45 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:38:45 -0400 Subject: BOC/BRAIN: more iCowbell In-Reply-To: <200504051353.j35DrnRM025574@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 2005-04-05 at 14:53 +0100, M Holmes wrote: > Carl Edlund Anderson writes: > > > I just noticed that an Apple iTunes blurb points out that you can "set > > the built-in equalizer to manual for more cowbell"! > > Does it go up to Eleven? No, but it does have a setting where you can hear in crisp detail your fair use rights being throttled by Apple's DRM... >:-) Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From ir004728 at MINDSPRING.COM Tue Apr 5 18:14:36 2005 From: ir004728 at MINDSPRING.COM (Albert Bouchard) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:14:36 -0400 Subject: BRAIN: Is there a release date yet for the new album? In-Reply-To: <015101c52fec$25dd88f0$e8fa0750@ODLaptop> Message-ID: On Mar 23, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Chas wrote: > Aaaah - six months, I can see how this must be really frustrating for > musicians when they are already to go but the logistics are against > you - > it's bad enough for the fans. I don't suppose there will be a 'fan > club' > only release of a couple of tracks (or even demos), sampler on the web > site... :-))) We might contribute a track to a compilation album in July but details are still being worked out. We're planning to mix it in early May so really anything can happen after that. > Good luck with the record company situation, if the gig was anything > to go > by it will be worth the wait. > Is there any significance in the potential title? The title comes from a psychology book by Earnest Becker that won the Pulitzer prize in 1974. Al From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 6 09:29:50 2005 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:29:50 -0700 Subject: OFF: TanuTuva (Hungary) Message-ID: Hey folks... One really great band that I saw in Budapest last year is called TanuTuva, and I've finally discovered their webpage at soundfreedom.org It doesn't seem like they have any commercial CDs for sale yet (I just wrote them an email to ask), but they do have a few MP3's up there for people to check out. I don't have a computer with that capability (still), so I can't do this myself, but I urge you to. They were really good, Ozrics-type stuff. Enjoy....and post your opinions here if you like. Hopefully, this off-topic stuff won't bother all the people who come to this list to discuss its main topic, that being Dr. Who of course. :) Ciao...Grakkl (FAA) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From cea at CARLAZ.COM Wed Apr 6 09:46:01 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:46:01 +0100 Subject: HW/BRAIN: Is there a release date yet for the new album? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 05-Apr-2005 23:14, Albert Bouchard wrote: > We might contribute a track to a compilation album in July but details > are still being worked out. We're planning to mix it in early May so > really anything can happen after that. Bets, anyone, that tBS get a new album out before Hawkwind? :) Or BOC, for that matter .... Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From cea at CARLAZ.COM Wed Apr 6 10:01:54 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:01:54 +0100 Subject: BOC/BRAIN: more iCowbell In-Reply-To: <1112726325.70382.2.camel@zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org> Message-ID: On 05-Apr-2005 19:38, Paul Mather wrote: > No, but it does have a setting where you can hear in crisp detail your > fair use rights being throttled by Apple's DRM... >:-) I wondered over this until I remembered that iTunes is now a music store to most people, rather than just the default Mac audio-player :) I've never bought anything from the iTMS -- partially 'cause of the rights issues (when I buy it, it's _mine_ :) and partially 'cause I'm not interested in buying something that will sound worse than a CD and that, on a per song basis, costs about the same. I have bought FLACs from livephish and livebonnaroo, though, and I expect to buy a souvenier of the Mule's upcoming London gig from muletracks :) I guess the Dead are now offering Dick's Picks as FLACs, but they cost about as much as the CDs, so there's not much incentive there! Cheers, Carl ps - I hear there's a little workshop in the Bronx that makes excellent cowbells. I gotta check that out, if I can :) -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/ From merlinas at BTCONNECT.COM Wed Apr 6 13:17:13 2005 From: merlinas at BTCONNECT.COM (Dave Bottomley) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:17:13 +0100 Subject: HW: Mojo radio Message-ID: Hi folks Not only does this month's Mojo magazine include a 2-page 'How to buy Hawkwind' feature (wot, no Hall of the Mountain Grill???!), but also tells us of an immiment edition of their Mojo Rocks online radio programme that may be of interest due to the content & the guest presenter. On Friday April 22nd (9-11pm), we have (and I quote): "Space Is Deep: Cosmic adventures with ex-Hawkwind sax man Nik Turner". Wonder if he'll play any Dave Brock Trio material? Check out details at www.mojo4music.com/html/mojo_radio.shtml Dave From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Wed Apr 6 18:26:23 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:26:23 +0100 Subject: OFF: dr. who In-Reply-To: <200503311654.j2VGsakh003084@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, M Holmes wrote: > Chris Allen writes: > > > > All in all though, I'd rather have seen them do Jerry Cornelius instead. > > > He's a hip British time-traveller after all and the whole Sixties thing > > > could lend the appropriate level of humour. Trips out from Time Central > > > could easily lend itself to an episodic format. Mind you, they probably > > > couldn't have Bishop Beesely bugger anyone with a Mars Bar and hope to > > > air it before the kids went to bed. > > > Dammit we need a remake of The Time Tunnel for the new millennium. > > The trouble with TTT and to an extent Quantum Leap was that they tended > to be primers in "History of the US". It'd be nice to think that they > could do some sort of Jerry Cornelius series without resorting to that. It'd have to be a kind of primer in world history, all the same; there's such a strong colonial/Great Powers background to so much of the Cornelius stuff, and so much concentration on cities and their characteristics... You'd more or less have to just take the characters and the Multiverse, and some but not much of the deep background, and then write new material round them. Which'd be kind of a shame as it'd likely omit the incest, drug abuse, bisexuality and orbits round characters with prejudices you couldn't screen nowadays which make the whole thing, well, Jerry Cornelius. Contrast to _Distant Suns_ which doesn't have most of this stuff and really doesn't count as a Cornelius novel don't you think? Yours, Jon ObLP: Bevis Frond - _Son of Walter_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Apr 7 05:43:38 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:43:38 +0100 Subject: OFF: dr. who In-Reply-To: Jon Jarrett's message of Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:26:23 +0100 Message-ID: Jon Jarrett writes: [Jerry Cornelius on TV...] > It'd have to be a kind of primer in world history, all the > same; there's such a strong colonial/Great Powers background to so much of > the Cornelius stuff, and so much concentration on cities and their > characteristics... You'd more or less have to just take the characters and > the Multiverse, and some but not much of the deep background, and then > write new material round them. Sure, though it needn't be limited to world history specifically. The Multiverse would allow for alternate histories too, and that could make it fun. > Which'd be kind of a shame as it'd likely > omit the incest, drug abuse, bisexuality and orbits round characters with > prejudices you couldn't screen nowadays which make the whole thing, well, Bisexuality wouldn't be (heh) out. Hell, it's almost mandatory in TV soaps these days. Incest could probably only be implied, and drug use only if bad consequences are portrayed. With a little skillful writing I don't think the character needs to change hugely, though it certainly wouldn't be an exact copy from the books either. FoFP From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 7 07:11:12 2005 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 04:11:12 -0700 Subject: OFF: Sky Cries Mary In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: For those that don't already know, Sky Cries Mary recently reunited (nearly the same lineup from three-four years ago) and are doing a new album. In roughly four hours (if I have my time changes right), they'll be on the radio in Seattle (and online), if anyone wants to listen in as to what they're doing. ----------------------------------- We will be the featured North West band tomorrow, April 7th on KEXP! The special will air tomorrow morning at 8 a.m. PST. If you live in the Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia area you can check it out at 90.3 or 91.7 FM. If you live elsewhere be sure to listen online (www.kexp.org). If you miss the show it will be in their archive for the next two weeks. ----------------------------------- Grakkl (FAA) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU Thu Apr 7 09:10:07 2005 From: dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU (David Kuznick) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:10:07 -0400 Subject: OFF: Sky Cries Mary In-Reply-To: <20050407111112.3928.qmail@web51803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Quoting Keith Henderson : > For those that don't already know, Sky Cries Mary > recently reunited (nearly the same lineup from > three-four years ago) and are doing a new album. In > roughly four hours (if I have my time changes right), > they'll be on the radio in Seattle (and online), if > anyone wants to listen in as to what they're doing. I liked their earlier stuff, but I gave up after Moonbathing on Sleeping Leaves. I remember just being irritated by it, but I guess I should go back and give it another listen. -- David Kuznick dkuznickATalumni.brandeis.edu "You should have seen the curse that flew right by you Page of concrete, stained walks crutch in hobbled sway Auto-da-f?, a capillary hint of red. Only this manupod crescent in shape has escaped" Televators - THE MARS VOLTA From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 7 09:38:22 2005 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 06:38:22 -0700 Subject: OFF: Sky Cries Mary In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: --- David Kuznick wrote: > > I liked their earlier stuff, but I gave up after > Moonbathing on Sleeping Leaves. > I remember just being irritated by it, but I guess > I should go back and give it > another listen. True, it wasn't as good as the earlier stuff, or at least not as consistent. But 'An Ant, The Stars, an Owl and Its Prey" is my favorite SCM song of all. Brilliant dreamy space rock. And the 'Smoke Break/Want' sequence, from what I remember, is quite good too. The only thing they did after this album (apart from a compilation with some rarities) was a four-track CD-EP called Seeds, which was really very good IMHO. A very creative bohemian lot, that I feel privileged to have seen live, given that they hardly ever left the state of Washington to play live. (In fact, I had to go *to* Seattle to see them, at the Womad festival.) Grakkl (FAA) P.S. The second Hana CD (Alisa Romano & Jeff Greinke) entitled "Omen" I recommend too. I like her singing alone better than the duo style with her husband. Their voices don't match well IMHO, but separately they're both fine. The one problem with SCM that I always had. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jswartz at MITRE.ORG Thu Apr 7 10:16:09 2005 From: jswartz at MITRE.ORG (John Swartz) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:16:09 -0400 Subject: BOC/BRAIN: more iCowbell In-Reply-To: <200504070900.j37902IP012180@www.ispnetinc.net> Message-ID: >> No, but it does have a setting where you can hear in crisp detail your >> fair use rights being throttled by Apple's DRM... >:-) > > > I wondered over this until I remembered that iTunes is now a music store > to most people, rather than just the default Mac audio-player :) > > I've never bought anything from the iTMS -- partially 'cause of the > rights issues (when I buy it, it's _mine_ :) and partially 'cause I'm > not interested in buying something that will sound worse than a CD and > that, on a per song basis, costs about the same. I've bought a fair number of tracks and albums from iTMS and don't have a problem with the quality, but agree that cost-wise it's about the same as a CD and you will get the full quality there. As for the DRM, there's a fairly easy way to be able to address that - the AAC files you get from the iTMS can be burned to CD using iTunes as audio (AIFF) files. You can then do as you will with those files - including ripping them to MP3s (ironicly, also using iTunes). Case in point - I needed a "karaoke track" of Van Morrisson's "Brown Eyed Girl". I had the original from iTMS - I buned it (along with a number of other AAC files) to CD, then used a freeware cross-platform program called Audacity to import the audio, and filter out most of the vocals (using a plug-in that can remove vocals panned to the center). Then I Van Morrisson's band backing me up so I could serenade my wife. But I digress... John From cea at CARLAZ.COM Thu Apr 7 10:45:50 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:45:50 +0100 Subject: BOC/BRAIN: more iCowbell In-Reply-To: <425540A9.30007@mitre.org> Message-ID: On 07/04/2005 15:16, John Swartz wrote: > As for the DRM, there's a fairly easy way to be able to address that - > the AAC files you get from the iTMS can be burned to CD using iTunes as > audio (AIFF) files. You can then do as you will with those files - > including ripping them to MP3s (ironicly, also using iTunes). Yeah, but I really hate the idea of convert a lossy AAC to a WAV (on CD) and then back to a freshly lossy MP3! But hey -- I figure it's not like Apple would be tricking me if I bought iTMS downlaods. I mean, it's not a secret that what you can do with the files is limited, so if one doesn't like it, it's not like one is forced to buy it at gunpoint ;) I think, here, the market will ultimately prevail. If enough people get steamed over losing their rights to make backups and stuff of music they bought, then the labels will allow it. But eventually I think it will be up to the artist. I mean, iTMS could practically be a label. The artist would be like a reseller on Amazon: iTMS would be the point of contact between seller and buyer; they'd take a cut of any sale (or have some fee structure for bandwidth/discspace or whatever) and the artist would decide what to put there and what DRM restrictions it would have. Ta da. I mean, I'm sure there will always be "labels" doing heavy promotion of pap to the masses, but I've never been interested in those products anyway. iTMS should just tell artists "upload us your song in lossless and choose your DRM/pricing and download-format options". Like, if no one ever buys your song, you can still go try to prostitute yourself to a label an convince them to promote you, right? It's a free(ish) world, after all. Well, that's my uninformed pontification, anyway :) Cheers, Carl From bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 7 11:30:53 2005 From: bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM (gary shindler) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:30:53 -0700 Subject: OFF: Sky Cries Mary In-Reply-To: <20050407133822.95477.qmail@web51805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I thought of buying one of their CDs used but AMG doesn't give any of the reviews more than 3 stars. Any suggestions for a newbie? --- Keith Henderson wrote: > --- David Kuznick > wrote: > > > > I liked their earlier stuff, but I gave up after > > Moonbathing on Sleeping Leaves. > > I remember just being irritated by it, but I guess > > I should go back and give it > > another listen. > > True, it wasn't as good as the earlier stuff, or at > least not as consistent. But 'An Ant, The Stars, an > Owl and Its Prey" is my favorite SCM song of all. > Brilliant dreamy space rock. And the 'Smoke > Break/Want' sequence, from what I remember, is quite > good too. The only thing they did after this album > (apart from a compilation with some rarities) was a > four-track CD-EP called Seeds, which was really very > good IMHO. > > A very creative bohemian lot, that I feel privileged > to have seen live, given that they hardly ever left > the state of Washington to play live. (In fact, I > had > to go *to* Seattle to see them, at the Womad > festival.) > > Grakkl (FAA) > > P.S. The second Hana CD (Alisa Romano & Jeff > Greinke) > entitled "Omen" I recommend too. I like her singing > alone better than the duo style with her husband. > Their voices don't match well IMHO, but separately > they're both fine. The one problem with SCM that I > always had. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Apr 7 11:33:33 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:33:33 +0100 Subject: Festivals - info wanted Message-ID: Well, we tried and failed to get tickets for Glasters. We've pretty much written it off as a shambles. A shame after a quarter century of attendance but there it is. So where to go instead? We enjoyed the vibe of Burg herzberg last year but probably won't travel that far without Hawkwind/Nektar/Eloy or similar as a draw. Ideally we'd like a festival smaller than Glastonbury which has camping, market stalls/food/real ale, and has something else to do apart from just music - say comedy/crafts/wack stuff and if possible stalls like the politics/alternative energy ones at the Green Fields in Glastonbury. Preferably wherever we end up, it won't have a ban on campfires, or at least will offer large communal fires to warm the tootsies by. Musicwise it's preferably spacerock/progressive/hippie or electronic (though more Euro than dance). Folks or country definitely not preferred. A laiback vibe rather than a frantic one is a marked plus. A quick perusal of efestivals seems to mark out Guilfest and Wickerman. Has anyone been to either or knows anyone who has? Comments? Are there other festivals we ought to consider? No sign of Hawkwind at Pentrich? They usually do every second year don't they? FoFP From judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 7 12:00:31 2005 From: judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM (trev) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:00:31 +0100 Subject: Festivals - info wanted Message-ID: big green gathering, earthwise i think that nik/judge etc will be at these, maybe they are not til later in the year tho' glasters tickets sold out in 24 mins - all of them REAL FESTIVAL MUSIC - RFM http://www.realfestivalmusic.co.uk Festival Listings, Festival Reviews, CDs, Video Downloads, News, Forum, Chat, Healers ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" To: Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:33 PM Subject: Festivals - info wanted > Well, we tried and failed to get tickets for Glasters. We've pretty much > written it off as a shambles. A shame after a quarter century of > attendance but there it is. > > So where to go instead? We enjoyed the vibe of Burg herzberg last year > but probably won't travel that far without Hawkwind/Nektar/Eloy or > similar as a draw. Ideally we'd like a festival smaller than Glastonbury > which has camping, market stalls/food/real ale, and has something else > to do apart from just music - say comedy/crafts/wack stuff and if > possible stalls like the politics/alternative energy ones at the Green > Fields in Glastonbury. Preferably wherever we end up, it won't have a > ban on campfires, or at least will offer large communal fires to warm > the tootsies by. Musicwise it's preferably spacerock/progressive/hippie > or electronic (though more Euro than dance). Folks or country definitely > not preferred. A laiback vibe rather than a frantic one is a marked plus. > > A quick perusal of efestivals seems to mark out Guilfest and Wickerman. > Has anyone been to either or knows anyone who has? Comments? Are there > other festivals we ought to consider? > > No sign of Hawkwind at Pentrich? They usually do every second year don't > they? > > FoFP > From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Thu Apr 7 14:53:39 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:53:39 -0400 Subject: BOC/BRAIN: more iCowbell In-Reply-To: <425540A9.30007@mitre.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 10:16 -0400, John Swartz wrote: > >> No, but it does have a setting where you can hear in crisp detail your > >> fair use rights being throttled by Apple's DRM... >:-) > > > > > > I wondered over this until I remembered that iTunes is now a music store > > to most people, rather than just the default Mac audio-player :) > > > > I've never bought anything from the iTMS -- partially 'cause of the > > rights issues (when I buy it, it's _mine_ :) and partially 'cause I'm > > not interested in buying something that will sound worse than a CD and > > that, on a per song basis, costs about the same. > > I've bought a fair number of tracks and albums from iTMS and don't have > a problem with the quality, but agree that cost-wise it's about the same > as a CD and you will get the full quality there. I've never used iTMS because I can't: I use neither Windows nor MacOS, so I'm locked out of the shop. I have a friend with an iBook who uses iTMS and loves it, although she confesses its ease of use is a bit of a problem at times because it's easy to spend a lot of money buying tracks on impulse without realising it. :-) > As for the DRM, there's a fairly easy way to be able to address that - > the AAC files you get from the iTMS can be burned to CD using iTunes as > audio (AIFF) files. You can then do as you will with those files - > including ripping them to MP3s (ironicly, also using iTunes). As Carl pointed out, having to go from a lossy to a lossless back to another (possibly different) lossy format (involving a redundant piece of plastic as a temporary go-between) just so you can play your music on, say, your MP3 player not only risks audio quality degradation, but also involves jumping through hoops you shouldn't really have to (and didn't have to before) just to exercise your fair use rights. With DRM, the content provider holds all the cards. The ugly reality is that in a DRM universe you almost never own the content you buy: you pay to have access to it according to the whims of the content provider. The DRM conditions have changed over the current lifetime of iTunes, and there's a catch-all provision that the terms and conditions can be changed at any time. It's not just music, either. With Half-Life 2 creator Valve's Steam system, you can't be sure you won't be billed after the fact for continued play of a game you bought because you need Steam as a prerequisite to activate the game (and in some ways to play it), and by agreeing to Steam's EULA you agree to this possibility. You are held hostage to Valve's desires enforced through Steam DRM. > Case in point - I needed a "karaoke track" of Van Morrisson's "Brown > Eyed Girl". I had the original from iTMS - I buned it (along with a > number of other AAC files) to CD, then used a freeware cross-platform > program called Audacity to import the audio, and filter out most of the > vocals (using a plug-in that can remove vocals panned to the center). > Then I Van Morrisson's band backing me up so I could serenade my wife. That's neat (I hope your wife liked the serenade)! But, it's only made possible because Apple currently allow you to interface with the non-DRM universe, i.e., burn to CD-Audio. (That's one carrot to get you to become an iTMS customer.) In a totally DRM-aware universe (for which the content providers are pressing), DRM information would follow the original bought tune everywhere. Under that regime, Audacity could easily be blocked from being able to load the re-ripped file (or from being able to save the edited version). DRM provisions and proprietary formats allow content providers unfair leverage. For example, the iPod is a wildly popular portable music player/fashion accessory. Apple have faced charges that they are favouring iTMS by restricting the licensing of AAC. By not licensing ACC to rival online music stores, it favours iTMS by driving iPod users in iTMS's direction. (Sadly, people like me will always be squeezed out of the party because companies won't license DRM technology for Open Source operating systems. That's why we have to use illegal hacks like DeCSS to play our legitimately bought DVDs on those platforms. Unfortunately, DeCSS is only possible because DVD encryption is easy to break in real time. It's unlikely this mistake will be repeated when the standards for the next generation of DVD is written, rendering them unplayable by those of us in the Open Source ghetto.) Like killing a frog by slowly boiling it alive, people put up with DRM because its real effects only become apparent when its too late (and they've invested too much in DRM content to abandon it). Also, the concepts involved with DRM are somewhat abstract, because people don't have as good a handle on intellectual property as they do physical property. For example, if you told someone that if they bought, say, a Ford car that had the built-in restriction that Ford only allowed it to drive on certain roads at certain times of the day, or it would only work with petrol from certain companies, or could use only certain brands of tyres---and that these Ford restrictions could change arbitrarily sometime in the future, just when you'd got used to everything as it was---then those people might rightly say "stuff it!" If you want a view of what a ubiquitous DRM universe looks like, have a read of security researcher Ross Anderson's "Trustworthy Computing FAQ" at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/tcpa-faq.html "I think you will be very happy here. Nobody has complained... yet." Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 7 15:04:03 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:04:03 -0400 Subject: OFF: dr. who Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:43:38 +0100, M Holmes wrote: >Jon Jarrett writes: > >[Jerry Cornelius on TV...] > >> Which'd be kind of a shame as it'd likely >> omit the incest, drug abuse, bisexuality and orbits round characters >> with prejudices you couldn't screen nowadays which make the whole >> thing, well, The prejudice/rascism thing would probably be the most difficult thing to get on tv these days, I think (although I wonder if anyone in the US even knows that "wog" is a rascist term ... or what it originally stood for). >Bisexuality wouldn't be (heh) out. Hell, it's almost mandatory in TV >soaps these days. Yes, but only amongst attractive females. Definitely not fat men in mitres (which may be a good thing, come to think of it)! I'd love to see the outcry from offended catholics, though. >Incest could probably only be implied, Subtext is everything ... >and drug use only if bad consequences are portrayed. At least there ARE lots of bad consequences in the Cornelius stories, so that would probably be possible to work in. >With a little skillful writing I >don't think the character needs to change hugely, though it certainly >wouldn't be an exact copy from the books either. That would be great fun, although I can't possibly imagine it actually happening ... oh well ... -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Thu Apr 7 15:22:57 2005 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:22:57 -0400 Subject: OFF: dr. who Message-ID: >>> jasret at MINDSPRING.COM 4/7/2005 3:04:03 PM >>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:43:38 +0100, M Holmes wrote: >Jon Jarrett writes: > >[Jerry Cornelius on TV...] > >> Which'd be kind of a shame as it'd likely >> omit the incest, drug abuse, bisexuality and orbits round characters >> with prejudices you couldn't screen nowadays which make the whole >> thing, well, The prejudice/rascism thing would probably be the most difficult thing to get on tv these days, I think (although I wonder if anyone in the US even knows that "wog" is a rascist term ... or what it originally stood for). Uh, is it "Westernized 'Oriental' Gentleman?" I think there's an even more racist meaning for "wog," isn't there? theo From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 7 15:31:46 2005 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:31:46 -0700 Subject: OFF: Sky Cries Mary In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: --- gary shindler wrote: > I thought of buying one of their CDs used but AMG > doesn't give any of the reviews more than 3 stars. > Any suggestions for a newbie? "This Timeless Turning" is the best IMHO. The previous one "A Return to the Inner Experience" is also good. The debut "Until the Grinders Cease" is by (essentially) a completely different band, and is rather uninteresting industrial-type music. I've already talked about the 4th one (Moonbathing...hit and miss), and that one EP (Seeds...four songs, good). They had an earlier CD-EP called "Exit at the Axis" which is pretty good too. But "TTT" is not only good stuff, it's also very long, like 70 minutes, and has some extended jams that are really nice. "Fresh Fruits for the Liberation" is an OK compilation, and has their cover tunes "2000 light years from home" and "Wots...uh, the Deal". __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates. http://personals.yahoo.com From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 7 15:40:20 2005 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:40:20 -0700 Subject: HW: NIK: Festivals - info wanted In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: --- M Holmes wrote: > Well, we tried and failed to get tickets for > Glasters. Does anybody know the contact information (presumably someone that is likely to be booking the acts for whatever stage has the prog/space acts, if any) for bands looking to secure a playing spot at Glasters? I kinda figure the thing is already set for this year, but Emil of Korai Orom asked me about it. I guess they would like to play there soon/someday. > So where to go instead? We enjoyed the vibe of Burg > herzberg last year but probably won't travel that far > without Hawkwind/Nektar/Eloy or similar as a draw. Um....you *did* see my post about Nik & Space Ritual playing there this year, did you not? Is that not 'similar' enough to Hawkwind? :) Yeah, and Korai Orom is playing as well, and they're damn good. So is ColourHaze (Thursday night), though they're on the louder/fuzzier side of space. I asked the Herzberg folks to pick up Litmus, who were on the Kosmos bill (but it was cancelled), but I kinda doubt that will happen...the lineup is close to full now. :( I'd love to have Eloy come back and play at least a few more shows...I'm disappointed that Frank seems to be quietly disappearing from the scene. I'm on the yahoo list, so if they do announce any reunion dates, I'll post 'em. > Ideally we'd like a festival smaller than Glastonbury > which has camping, market stalls/food/real ale... Uh, Hawkfest? :) Grakkl (FAA) P.S. Mike, you gonna be at Middlesbrough? or any of the other 'northernish' gigs? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From Stewartbas at AOL.COM Thu Apr 7 15:51:31 2005 From: Stewartbas at AOL.COM (Stewartbas at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:51:31 EDT Subject: HW: NIK: Festivals - info wanted Message-ID: In a message dated 4/7/2005 3:41:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, khenders64 at YAHOO.COM writes: Excerpt from the Hawkwind group...one chap lamenting over the sell-out of Glasters in 40 min. > >So where to go instead? We enjoyed the vibe of Burg > >herzberg last year but probably won't travel that > >far >without Hawkwind/Nektar/Eloy or similar as a > >draw. The TRIBES from the hawkwind list have spoken...again bill stewart From tony.orourke at TALK21.COM Thu Apr 7 17:50:05 2005 From: tony.orourke at TALK21.COM (Tony) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:50:05 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <1112900020.23695.59.camel@zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org> Message-ID: What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent convert to them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend during their UK tour and they were magnificent. What's more Steven Wilson (songwriter, guitars, singer and all round genius) likes Hawkwind too. On his personal website he lists "In Search Of Space" on his March playlist. http://www.nomansland.demon.co.uk/playlist.html Cool! From judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 7 17:58:58 2005 From: judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM (trev) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:58:58 +0100 Subject: HW: NIK: Festivals - info wanted Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Henderson" To: Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: Re: HW: NIK: Festivals - info wanted > --- M Holmes wrote: >> Well, we tried and failed to get tickets for >> Glasters. > > Does anybody know the contact information (presumably > someone that is likely to be booking the acts for > whatever stage has the prog/space acts, if any) for > bands looking to secure a playing spot at Glasters? I > kinda figure the thing is already set for this year, > but Emil of Korai Orom asked me about it. I guess > they would like to play there soon/someday. > >> So where to go instead? We enjoyed the vibe of Burg >> herzberg last year but probably won't travel that > far > without Hawkwind/Nektar/Eloy or similar as a > draw. > > Um....you *did* see my post about Nik & Space Ritual > playing there this year, did you not? Is that not > 'similar' enough to Hawkwind? :) > > Yeah, and Korai Orom is playing as well, and they're > damn good. So is ColourHaze (Thursday night), though > they're on the louder/fuzzier side of space. I asked > the Herzberg folks to pick up Litmus, who were on the > Kosmos bill (but it was cancelled), but I kinda doubt > that will happen...the lineup is close to full now. :( > > I'd love to have Eloy come back and play at least a > few more shows...I'm disappointed that Frank seems to > be quietly disappearing from the scene. I'm on the > yahoo list, so if they do announce any reunion dates, > I'll post 'em. > >> Ideally we'd like a festival smaller than > Glastonbury >> which has camping, market stalls/food/real ale... > > Uh, Hawkfest? :) > > Grakkl (FAA) > > P.S. Mike, you gonna be at Middlesbrough? or any of > the other 'northernish' gigs? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 7 18:00:18 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:00:18 -0400 Subject: OFF: dr. who Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:22:57 -0400, Ted Jackson wrote: >>>> jasret at MINDSPRING.COM 4/7/2005 3:04:03 PM >>> >The prejudice/rascism thing would probably be the most difficult thing >to get on tv these days, I think (although I wonder if anyone in the US >even knows that "wog" is a rascist term ... or what it originally stood >for). > >Uh, is it "Westernized 'Oriental' Gentleman?" In my understanding, the W is for "worthy" (spoken obsequiesly). An example of that classic British deadpan sarcasm. >I think there's an even more racist meaning for "wog," isn't there? I think in general it's not a nice word to use in polite company ... -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 7 18:03:54 2005 From: judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM (trev) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:03:54 +0100 Subject: HW: NIK: Festivals - info wanted Message-ID: the only way to get a gig at glasters is to be a big name or to know a promoter personally. as far as i know prog/space music is no longer represented at glasters the avalon stage used to put on space/prog/rock bands but this year they are exclusively folk trev REAL FESTIVAL MUSIC - RFM http://www.realfestivalmusic.co.uk Festival Listings, Festival Reviews, CDs, Video Downloads, News, Forum, Chat, Healers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Henderson" To: Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: Re: HW: NIK: Festivals - info wanted > --- M Holmes wrote: >> Well, we tried and failed to get tickets for >> Glasters. > > Does anybody know the contact information (presumably > someone that is likely to be booking the acts for > whatever stage has the prog/space acts, if any) for > bands looking to secure a playing spot at Glasters? I > kinda figure the thing is already set for this year, > but Emil of Korai Orom asked me about it. I guess > they would like to play there soon/someday. > >> So where to go instead? We enjoyed the vibe of Burg >> herzberg last year but probably won't travel that > far > without Hawkwind/Nektar/Eloy or similar as a > draw. > > Um....you *did* see my post about Nik & Space Ritual > playing there this year, did you not? Is that not > 'similar' enough to Hawkwind? :) > > Yeah, and Korai Orom is playing as well, and they're > damn good. So is ColourHaze (Thursday night), though > they're on the louder/fuzzier side of space. I asked > the Herzberg folks to pick up Litmus, who were on the > Kosmos bill (but it was cancelled), but I kinda doubt > that will happen...the lineup is close to full now. :( > > I'd love to have Eloy come back and play at least a > few more shows...I'm disappointed that Frank seems to > be quietly disappearing from the scene. I'm on the > yahoo list, so if they do announce any reunion dates, > I'll post 'em. > >> Ideally we'd like a festival smaller than > Glastonbury >> which has camping, market stalls/food/real ale... > > Uh, Hawkfest? :) > > Grakkl (FAA) > > P.S. Mike, you gonna be at Middlesbrough? or any of > the other 'northernish' gigs? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > From dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU Thu Apr 7 19:14:24 2005 From: dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU (David Kuznick) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:14:24 -0400 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <000801c53bbb$c241c320$0a00000a@studybox> Message-ID: Quoting Tony : > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I think they're fantastic. In fact I first heard about them from BOC-L back in the Up The Downstairs era, picked that up, and have been a huge fan ever since. -- David Kuznick dkuznickATalumni.brandeis.edu "You should have seen the curse that flew right by you Page of concrete, stained walks crutch in hobbled sway Auto-da-f?, a capillary hint of red. Only this manupod crescent in shape has escaped" Televators - THE MARS VOLTA From chrisr at TIAC.NET Thu Apr 7 19:38:26 2005 From: chrisr at TIAC.NET (Chris Raymond) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:38:26 -0400 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <20050407191424.3lozomccks8sc04o@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: Porcupine Tree do a Magnu sounding called "Out" from the Love, Death & Mussolini cassette. Love Death and Mussolini 1990 (private cassette) deleted SIDE A Hymn (1:22) Footprints (5:56) Linton Samuel Dawson (3:04) And the Swallows Dance Above the Sun (4:12) Queen Quotes Crowley (4:40) SIDE B No Luck With Rabbits (0:47) Begonia Seduction Scene (2:34) Out (8:59) It Will Rain for a Million Years (4:05) I had thought that the track had been rereleased, but not sure of that. Chris R. -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of David Kuznick Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:14 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: Porcupine Tree Quoting Tony : > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I think they're fantastic. In fact I first heard about them from BOC-L back in the Up The Downstairs era, picked that up, and have been a huge fan ever since. -- David Kuznick dkuznickATalumni.brandeis.edu "You should have seen the curse that flew right by you Page of concrete, stained walks crutch in hobbled sway Auto-da-f?, a capillary hint of red. Only this manupod crescent in shape has escaped" Televators - THE MARS VOLTA From chrisr at TIAC.NET Thu Apr 7 19:41:22 2005 From: chrisr at TIAC.NET (Chris Raymond) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:41:22 -0400 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That should be Magnu sounding track called "Out" Chris R. -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Chris Raymond Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:38 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: Porcupine Tree Porcupine Tree do a Magnu sounding called "Out" from the Love, Death & Mussolini cassette. Love Death and Mussolini 1990 (private cassette) deleted SIDE A Hymn (1:22) Footprints (5:56) Linton Samuel Dawson (3:04) And the Swallows Dance Above the Sun (4:12) Queen Quotes Crowley (4:40) SIDE B No Luck With Rabbits (0:47) Begonia Seduction Scene (2:34) Out (8:59) It Will Rain for a Million Years (4:05) I had thought that the track had been rereleased, but not sure of that. Chris R. -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of David Kuznick Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:14 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: Porcupine Tree Quoting Tony : > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I think they're fantastic. In fact I first heard about them from BOC-L back in the Up The Downstairs era, picked that up, and have been a huge fan ever since. -- David Kuznick dkuznickATalumni.brandeis.edu "You should have seen the curse that flew right by you Page of concrete, stained walks crutch in hobbled sway Auto-da-f?, a capillary hint of red. Only this manupod crescent in shape has escaped" Televators - THE MARS VOLTA From ir004728 at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 7 21:00:01 2005 From: ir004728 at MINDSPRING.COM (Albert Bouchard) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:00:01 -0400 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <000801c53bbb$c241c320$0a00000a@studybox> Message-ID: On Apr 7, 2005, at 5:50 PM, Tony wrote: > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent > convert to > them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In > Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend > during I think I like them. I have one album (I think it's their first) that's mostly laid back instrumental prog stuff but the first day we were in the studio to record our new album Paul Special played the first cut from their new one and I was quite impressed. It sounded a bit like what we're trying to do with our new stuff. I'm tempted to download it from iTMS because I don't have the patience to get it from the store and maybe I only want that one cut anyway. I have bought many tunes from iTMS and the sound is really OK. Usually I burn it to CD and listen on my boom box or diskman. I got Frances the Mute and it has provided me with many hours of enjoyment. Al From dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU Thu Apr 7 21:44:00 2005 From: dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU (David Kuznick) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:44:00 -0400 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <3ec3a66f25b90a62358900dc065c4fa2@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Quoting Albert Bouchard : > On Apr 7, 2005, at 5:50 PM, Tony wrote: > > > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent > > convert to > > them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In > > Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend > > during > > I think I like them. I have one album (I think it's their first) that's > mostly laid back instrumental prog stuff Al, I doubt you have the first one if that's how you describe it. It's also tricky to define their "first" album; :-) there were some cassette-only releases, partially collected on Yellow Hedgerow Dreamscape - On the Sunday of Life is usually considered the first "proper" album, though it was very much a one-man-band then. The early stuff is a lot of psychedelia, with not a lot of "prog", though there is some. It's almost like Floyd's Piper at the Gates of Dawn, at times (Yellow Hedgrerow Dreamscape and On the Sunday of Life especially). But they (though for a long while it was really "he"; Steve Wilson) have changed styled a lot over the years, but I like all of it, though In Absentia didn't really grab me, and I probably listen to that one the least. It's funny because I saw the tour where they previewed much of it and it sounded GREAT. Something happened on the way to the studio... I am looking forward to the new one, Deadwing, though I know it's supposed to be a lot like In Absentia. But they are always fantastic live, and I'll be seeing them 2nd row center next month at the Somerville Theater here in the Boston area. And along with King Crimson, they are my wife's favorite prog band. :-) Though her favorite song is Radiactive Toy, and they never seem to play that anymore. -- David Kuznick dkuznickATalumni.brandeis.edu "You should have seen the curse that flew right by you Page of concrete, stained walks crutch in hobbled sway Auto-da-f?, a capillary hint of red. Only this manupod crescent in shape has escaped" Televators - THE MARS VOLTA From ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET Thu Apr 7 18:48:57 2005 From: ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET (Tim) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:48:57 -0400 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree Message-ID: Well, I have three of their cds; _Sky Moves Sideways_, _Staircase Infinities_, & _Signify_. Not really sure if I really like them, but haven't yet been able to part with them. It's been `well, 1 more listen and then i'll trade `em in'...3 times now; so I guess I like them more than i think i do(must be a subconcious thing). tim 8>)... Tony wrote: > > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent convert to > them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In > Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend during > their UK tour and they were magnificent. What's more Steven Wilson > (songwriter, guitars, singer and all round genius) likes Hawkwind too. On > his personal website he lists "In Search Of Space" on his March playlist. > http://www.nomansland.demon.co.uk/playlist.html > Cool! From gg at SIO4.COM Fri Apr 8 04:56:44 2005 From: gg at SIO4.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:56:44 +0200 Subject: Off: Underground Zero Message-ID: I've just received "The Elf And The Hawk" cd and I am very very impressed by this Underground Zero! I listened a song also from various "Friends & Relations" compilations, and I think they were (are??) great. Anyone knows something about them? They still exist today? Do you know where I could buy some cd? thanks! ciao!, gg From iainferguson at AOL.COM Fri Apr 8 05:44:47 2005 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:44:47 +0100 Subject: Elf & Hawk In-Reply-To: <291504624.20050408105644@manoweb.com> Message-ID: Hi folks, I don't have the Elf & hawk LP or CD. could someone explain what it is, and if its an official LP. Regards bristol iain hoping to attend an outdoor hawkwind gig this year Pierluigi Fumi wrote on 4/8/2005, 9:56 AM: > I've just received "The Elf And The Hawk" cd and I am very very > impressed by this Underground Zero! > > I listened a song also from various "Friends & Relations" > compilations, and I think they were (are??) great. Anyone knows something > about them? They still exist today? > Do you know where I could buy some cd? > > thanks! > > ciao!, gg > From cea at CARLAZ.COM Fri Apr 8 05:50:54 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:50:54 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree/iTMS In-Reply-To: <3ec3a66f25b90a62358900dc065c4fa2@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On 08/04/2005 02:00, Albert Bouchard wrote: > On Apr 7, 2005, at 5:50 PM, Tony wrote: >> What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? > I think I like them. I have one album (I think it's their first) that's > mostly laid back instrumental prog stuff but the first day we were in > the studio to record our new album Paul Special played the first cut > from their new one and I was quite impressed. It sounded a bit like > what we're trying to do with our new stuff. I'm tempted to download it > from iTMS because I don't have the patience to get it from the store > and maybe I only want that one cut anyway. > [...] > I have bought many tunes from iTMS and the sound is really OK. Usually > I burn it to CD and listen on my boom box or diskman. I got Frances the > Mute and it has provided me with many hours of enjoyment. In the interests of science, I checked iTMS UK, and found that they would indeed sell me Frances the Mute for 8 pounds. Then I checked Amazon.co.uk, and found that some US-based reseller would sell me the CD for GBP 6.20 inc. postage. Likewise for the new Porcupine Tree (_Deadwing_, no?) sells for 9 quid on iTMS, though a few pence less for a US-based reseller to send me the disc. So the physical media is still the winner for me (though I have to have the patience to wait a couple o' weeks for it to show up). Though the point about only wanting given tracks is well taken. I dig that Hendrix "Ezy Ryder" track from First Rays, but dunno if I'll dig the rest of the album (I like Hendrix well enough, but I'm not a crazed fan or anything). I'd pay 80p to get that track (though I haven't, yet), but I'd rather pay a pound for a CD-quality audio file (though, yeah, I listen to homemade 128kbps AACs all the time and they sound all right). BTW, the most downloaded tBS track on iTunes UK is "Bad Hair Day"! :) Cheers, Carl From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 8 06:18:34 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:18:34 +0100 Subject: HW: NIK: Festivals - info wanted In-Reply-To: Keith Henderson's message of Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:40:20 -0700 Message-ID: Keith Henderson writes: > P.S. Mike, you gonna be at Middlesbrough? or any of > the other 'northernish' gigs? The way it looks just now, Croydon is the only one I could make... Mike From gg at SIO4.COM Fri Apr 8 06:52:57 2005 From: gg at SIO4.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:52:57 +0200 Subject: Elf & Hawk In-Reply-To: <4256528F.6090807@aol.com> Message-ID: Iain Ferguson wrote: > Hi folks, > I don't have the Elf & hawk LP or CD. could someone explain what it is, > and if its an official LP. dunno if it's official or not. It is released by blackwidow (here's the link: ) It contains the remastering of the compilation of Hawkfan no. 12 and the first Alan Davey EP ("Alan (the elf) Davey Solo EP"), plus some bonus material (a cover of Spirit of the Age) From ivarsdoyle at YAHOO.IT Fri Apr 8 08:14:53 2005 From: ivarsdoyle at YAHOO.IT (Ivars Doyle) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:14:53 +0200 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <000801c53bbb$c241c320$0a00000a@studybox> Message-ID: On 07/04/2005 23.50, Tony wrote: > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I do like them. I think their live album - Coma Divine - is a must have. Favorite songs: Radioactive Toy and Not Beautiful Anymore. Cheers GM -- ID of Retribution "Like all good Dictators, I'm a sweetheart as long as you play by my rules..." (Asia Carrera) From youless at COX.NET Fri Apr 8 09:50:32 2005 From: youless at COX.NET (Steve Youles) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:50:32 -0400 Subject: Elf & Hawk Message-ID: Hi Iain I reviewed it here: http://www.starfarer.net/elfhawk.html Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:44:47 +0100, Iain Ferguson wrote: >Hi folks, > >I don't have the Elf & hawk LP or CD. could someone explain what it is, >and if its an official LP. > >Regards >bristol iain >hoping to attend an outdoor hawkwind gig this year From cea at CARLAZ.COM Fri Apr 8 10:00:22 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:00:22 +0100 Subject: Off: Underground Zero In-Reply-To: <291504624.20050408105644@manoweb.com> Message-ID: On 08/04/2005 09:56, Pierluigi Fumi wrote: > I've just received "The Elf And The Hawk" cd and I am very very > impressed by this Underground Zero! > I listened a song also from various "Friends & Relations" > compilations, and I think they were (are??) great. Anyone knows something > about them? They still exist today? There's a web page here: But it doesn't claim to have news more recent than 2002. There's an email address on the page, but I haven't tried it! Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson mailto:cea at carlaz.com http://www.carlaz.com/ From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 8 10:48:40 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:48:40 +0100 Subject: Pentrich festival Message-ID: I just had confirmation that Hawkwind won't play the Pentrich bikers festival this year. A shame really. Let's hope there's a Hawkfest... FoFP From khenders64 at YAHOO.COM Fri Apr 8 14:23:05 2005 From: khenders64 at YAHOO.COM (Keith Henderson) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:23:05 -0700 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: Chris said... --- Chris Raymond wrote: > That should be Magnu sounding track called "Out" > > I had thought that the track had been rereleased, > but not sure of that. Yeah, AFAIK, it was stuck onto the vinyl (reissue) version of 'Yellow Hedgerow Dreamscape' (was it?) by Mr. Ace of Discs, Mr. Piper, aka Gates of Dawn. In place of the Prince cover tune. Good choice, IMHO. It's a cool song, in any case, and goes into a version of It Will Rain in a Million Years that is completely different than the later version, such that this totally obscure cassette Life, Death and Mussolini is critical in some way to have access to. I got a CDR transfer in fact, from some guy named Chris Raymond I think. Thanks for that. Grakkl (FAA) P.S. Yeah, Porcupine Tree, good band. They used to be a psychedelic band. And nowadays are a prog-metal band, with a few pop songs here and there. No matter, still great stuff. And if you like krautrock, check out Steven Wilson's I.E.M. (Incredible Expanding Mindfuck)...at times, even better. Signify, and that live album Coma Divine (recommended here by someone else) are the best IMHO. Only Lightbulb Sun I don't much care for. The new one *is* very much like In Absentia (some will say *too* similar), but there are four tracks (or so) that are real winners irregardless. Um...is it not out worldwide yet? Here in central Europe, it's been out 10 days or more. Strange. In the liner notes, it says that Wilson and some other guy have built up some sort of screenplay or something on this 'Deadwing' story (?), so perhaps Mr. Wilson's interested in brancing out into some more multimedia related. I'm not sure...the lyrics are usually abstract (and limited) enough to give very little in terms of a coherent 'story' to any album. I never get the 'concept' feeling from any PTree project. And here it's the same. I should try to pay more attention, but the lyrics are not printed in the booklet, so it's difficult to follow along. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU Fri Apr 8 14:44:22 2005 From: dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU (David Kuznick) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:44:22 -0400 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <20050408182305.98077.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Quoting Keith Henderson : > Chris said... > > --- Chris Raymond wrote: > > That should be Magnu sounding track called "Out" > > > > I had thought that the track had been rereleased, > > but not sure of that. > > Yeah, AFAIK, it was stuck onto the vinyl (reissue) > version of 'Yellow Hedgerow Dreamscape' (was it?) That's correct. > by > Mr. Ace of Discs, Mr. Piper, aka Gates of Dawn. In > place of the Prince cover tune. Good choice, IMHO. I like The Cross on YHD. :-P But I'd like to hear Out someday too.. > P.S. Yeah, Porcupine Tree, good band. They used to > be a psychedelic band. And nowadays are a prog-metal > band, with a few pop songs here and there. I'm not sure I'd call them prog-metal, though they are a lot heavier recently. Probably Steve Wilson hanging out and producing Opeth influence... :-) > No matter, > still great stuff. And if you like krautrock, check > out Steven Wilson's I.E.M. (Incredible Expanding > Mindfuck)...at times, even better. Yes, that's very good stuff. As is Metanoia. > Signify, and that > live album Coma Divine (recommended here by someone > else) are the best IMHO. Only Lightbulb Sun I don't > much care for. Took a while to grow on me, but I really like it now. > The new one *is* very much like In > Absentia (some will say *too* similar), but there are > four tracks (or so) that are real winners > irregardless. Um...is it not out worldwide yet? No. US release is April 26th. > Here > in central Europe, it's been out 10 days or more. > Strange. In the liner notes, it says that Wilson and > some other guy have built up some sort of screenplay > or something on this 'Deadwing' story (?), so perhaps Video is on the website I think. > Mr. Wilson's interested in brancing out into some more > multimedia related. I'm not sure...the lyrics are > usually abstract (and limited) enough to give very > little in terms of a coherent 'story' to any album. I > never get the 'concept' feeling from any PTree > project. And here it's the same. I should try to pay > more attention, but the lyrics are not printed in the > booklet, so it's difficult to follow along. At least he doesn't simply mumble everything anymore. :-) I like his voice a lot. -- David Kuznick dkuznickATalumni.brandeis.edu "You should have seen the curse that flew right by you Page of concrete, stained walks crutch in hobbled sway Auto-da-f?, a capillary hint of red. Only this manupod crescent in shape has escaped" Televators - THE MARS VOLTA From tony.orourke at TALK21.COM Fri Apr 8 15:06:47 2005 From: tony.orourke at TALK21.COM (Tony) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:06:47 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <3ec3a66f25b90a62358900dc065c4fa2@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Frances The Mute is one of the albums of 2005, in my view. Delousing The Comatorium is also very cool. Tony -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Albert Bouchard Sent: 08 April 2005 02:00 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: Porcupine Tree On Apr 7, 2005, at 5:50 PM, Tony wrote: > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent > convert to > them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In > Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend > during I think I like them. I have one album (I think it's their first) that's mostly laid back instrumental prog stuff but the first day we were in the studio to record our new album Paul Special played the first cut from their new one and I was quite impressed. It sounded a bit like what we're trying to do with our new stuff. I'm tempted to download it from iTMS because I don't have the patience to get it from the store and maybe I only want that one cut anyway. I have bought many tunes from iTMS and the sound is really OK. Usually I burn it to CD and listen on my boom box or diskman. I got Frances the Mute and it has provided me with many hours of enjoyment. Al From tony.orourke at TALK21.COM Fri Apr 8 15:13:27 2005 From: tony.orourke at TALK21.COM (Tony) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:13:27 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <3ec3a66f25b90a62358900dc065c4fa2@mindspring.com> Message-ID: The new CD, "Deadwing" has a number of excellent tracks. "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here" is a fine driving rock song (12 mins long) and "Glass Arm Shattering" is a hybrid Radiohead/Pink Floyd song. The best song on the CD is probably the poppiest - "Lazarus". Outstanding. I've just ordered five of their CDs - you can get "Stars Die" on 101cd.com for GBP 5.99 and "In Absentia" (2 disc) for ?5.89 from Amazon.co.uk. I have still to order "Coma Divine" but will no doubt, very soon. Tony -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Albert Bouchard Sent: 08 April 2005 02:00 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: Porcupine Tree On Apr 7, 2005, at 5:50 PM, Tony wrote: > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent > convert to > them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In > Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend > during I think I like them. I have one album (I think it's their first) that's mostly laid back instrumental prog stuff but the first day we were in the studio to record our new album Paul Special played the first cut from their new one and I was quite impressed. It sounded a bit like what we're trying to do with our new stuff. I'm tempted to download it from iTMS because I don't have the patience to get it from the store and maybe I only want that one cut anyway. I have bought many tunes from iTMS and the sound is really OK. Usually I burn it to CD and listen on my boom box or diskman. I got Frances the Mute and it has provided me with many hours of enjoyment. Al From jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM Sat Apr 9 04:23:28 2005 From: jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM (Jerry Kranitz) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 04:23:28 -0400 Subject: OFF: Aural Innovations Radio: New Space Rock, Atomic Bongload, and Electronic Cottage shows Message-ID: http://Aural-Innovations.com April 9, 2005: NEW RADIO SHOWS We've just uploaded new shows from Aural Innovations Space Rock Radio (show #124), The Atomic Bongload (show #10), and The Electronic Cottage (show #12). You can go directly to the Radio shows page at: http://aural-innovations.com/radio/radio.html AURAL INNOVATIONS CD MAIL ORDER: I've got one more new goodie that just arrived. This will be it until the new mail order store is done, which is coming along nicely. But it's not ready yet so like last week I've NOT updated the old catalog. So if you're interested in this please email me at jkranitz at aural-innovations.com and I'll hook you up. V.A. - "Psytrax 1"... This is Andy G's new Space/Psych/Stoner Rock compilation, featuring tracks from Litmus, Space Mirrors, Jet Jaguar, Wall of Sleep, Voodoo Shock, Alien Dream, Melodic Energy Commission, Architectural Metaphor, Dr Hasbeen, Spaceseed, Quarkspace, Spacehead, Helios Creed, ST 37, and a track from ex-Hawkwind guitarist JERRY RICHARDS recorded EXCLUSIVELY for this compilation. Psytrax comes in very simple packaging to keep production costs to the bare minimum, and in that spirit I'm selling it for a mere $4 (shipping included for those in the US/Canada). That should encourage EVERYBODY to check it out. Aural Innovations Space Rock Radio (show #124) Nihil Project ? ?Samhain? (from Samhain) Guild Navigators ? ?Dy-Maxion? (from Phase 2) Scattered Planets ? ?New Age? (from You've Been Duplicated: Burning Chrome to Disc in the Cyberage) THTX ? ?Voyage Into Space? (from Ultimately) My Education ? ?Dirty Hands? (from Italian) Nifty Eagu + The Glo-Pilots ? ?Talking to the Sun #2? (from Glo-Balisation) Tom Mungenast ? ?Candles? (from The Un-Stable Boy) Meathawk & the Meathawks ? ?Meathawk vs. Babylon? (from Meathawk in Battle) Fighting Catz ? ?Chromatic Candlelight Opera? (from Fighting Catz) Systems Theory - "Green Miata Baja Bound" (from Soundtracks for Imaginary Movies) Radio Dystopia ? ?A Conversation With The Universe? (from Soundclick.com page) Neumeier-Genrich-Schmidt ? ?Electric Junk? (from Psychedelic Monsterjam) The Atomic Bongload (show #10) The Atomic Bongload was created to give an audio spotlight to the Stoner Rock and general HEAVY music we review at Aural Innovations. Listen to the show to find out how you can win a FREE CD from Small Stone label artists SASQUATCH or BOTTOM, or a Sasquatch T-Shirt. Sasquatch ? ?Chemical Lady? (from Sasquatch) Superheavygoatass ? ?MS? (from 60,000 Years) Blood Farmers ? ?Bullet In My Head? (from Permanent Brain Damage) RPG ? ?Paralyzed? (from Full Time) 25 Suaves ? ?Give It Up? (from I Want It Loud) Valis ? ?Voyager? (from Head Full of Pills) Bottom ? ?The Same? (from You?r Next) Porn ? ?Glory Will Be Mine? (from Wine, Women and Song) SubArachnoid Space ? ?Honorable Mention? (from The Red Veil) Low Ton ? ?Mouse? (from Dead Words) Shiver ? ?Tough As Nails? (from San Francisco?s Shiver) Rick Ray ? ?The Casualty Store? (from Night Of The Living Dedicated) Neurotic ? ?The Walrus? (from Mazy Craniacs) The Electronic Cottage (show #12) The Electronic Cottage was created to give an audio spotlight to the ambient, cosmic space, and general electronic sound explorations we receive at Aural Innovations. The show is named after Hal McGee's zine of the same name that published in the late 1980's and early 1990's. Alisa Corral?s Neutron Star ? ?PSR 0820 + 02? (from Alisa Corral?s Neutron Star) Phinney/McGee ? ?Incident On The Space Elevator? (from Escape From Earth) The New Digital Sound ? ?Real You (Retreating Again)? (from The Depressed American Dream) Kyron ? track 13 (from Whims V.2) Zavoloka ? ?Plavyna (Silt)? (from Plavyna) Mikhail Chekalin ? ?Green Symphony Part 4? (from Green Symphony / Borderline State) Mikhail Chekalin ? ?Ostinato-Asthenia? (from Meditative Music for a Prepared Organ Volume 2) Psychic Space Invasion ? track 1 (from And The Cows Go Mu) Eluvium ? ?One? (from Talk Amongst The Trees) The Moglass ? ?Untitled (Tawny Owl)? (from Snake-Tongued Swallow-Tailed) http://Aural-Innovations.com From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Apr 9 15:09:33 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:09:33 +0100 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: "The Unquiet Dead" - the Top 10 Doctor Who story to be sure! Nobody does Victoriana like the BBC and this was Top Draw material, absolutely fantastic! Abie From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Apr 9 16:01:01 2005 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:01:01 -0400 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:09:33 +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: >"The Unquiet Dead" - the Top 10 Doctor Who story to be sure! Nobody does >Victoriana like the BBC and this was Top Draw material, absolutely >fantastic! It was ludicrous... utterly preposterous. I really enjoyed it :-) But there was one thing I strongly disliked- Christopher Ecclestone. The goofy smile and air of forced flippancy aren't working IMHO. It's surprising that such a fine actor has gone for such a two-dimensional portrayal. The trailer for next week's episode looked great though. Nick From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Apr 9 16:43:55 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:43:55 +0100 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Medford" > > But there was one thing I strongly disliked- Christopher Ecclestone. Christopher Eccleston, on the other hand, was superb ;-) Abie From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Apr 9 16:56:12 2005 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:56:12 -0400 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:43:55 +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Nick Medford" >> >> But there was one thing I strongly disliked- Christopher Ecclestone. > >Christopher Eccleston, on the other hand, was superb ;-) Quite right on the spelling, I am indebted. But did you really think he was superb? Nick From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Apr 9 18:15:56 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:15:56 +0100 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Medford" > >> But there was one thing I strongly disliked- Christopher Ecclestone. > > > >Christopher Eccleston, on the other hand, was superb ;-) > > Quite right on the spelling, I am indebted. But did you really think he was > superb? Yeah, I think he's very good indeed - on a par with the first five. Abie From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Apr 9 18:39:31 2005 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:39:31 -0400 Subject: dr. who Message-ID: >Yeah, I think he's very good indeed - on a par with the first five. Hmmm... there were certain points in tonight's episode where I found myself imagining how Tom Baker would have delivered the line, and I thought Tom sounded so much better... While watching the show I enjoyed a bowl of Angel Delight, a packet of Spangles, and a couple of Ski yoghurts, and as soon as it was over I took out a load of old photos from my childhood and gazed at them through a specially constructed rose-tinted viewer while riding my Chopper bike. ;-) Nick From GutterCat at AOL.COM Sat Apr 9 20:12:20 2005 From: GutterCat at AOL.COM (GutterCat at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:12:20 EDT Subject: dr. who Message-ID: In a message dated 09/04/05 23:40:10 GMT Daylight Time, nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > While watching the show I enjoyed a bowl of Angel Delight, a packet of > Spangles, and a couple of Ski yoghurts, and as soon as it was over I took > out a load of old photos from my childhood and gazed at them through a > specially constructed rose-tinted viewer while riding my Chopper bike. > All whilst listening to Hawkwind of course. Thoroughly enjoyed tonights Dr Who. Can't wait for next weeks. Have a look at this site: http://www.pne-online.co.uk/timemeddlers/ Earlier. Steve. From gg at SIO4.COM Sun Apr 10 05:00:21 2005 From: gg at SIO4.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:00:21 +0200 Subject: Elf & Hawk In-Reply-To: <1452146465.20050408125257@manoweb.com> Message-ID: Pierluigi Fumi wrote: > dunno if it's official or not. It is released by blackwidow (here's > the link: ) uhmm... someone eat the link... here it is: http://www.blackwidow.it/catalog-query.php?ID=26 From starfield at SUPANET.COM Sun Apr 10 13:50:42 2005 From: starfield at SUPANET.COM (Captain Bl@ck) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:50:42 +0100 Subject: HW: Collectors item! Message-ID: Anybody interested in a REAL piece of Hawkwind memorabilia should check out www.vemia.co.uk and go to the auction rooms, lot number 4372....it's not cheap but it sure is interesting. Keith LucidSounDs. From youless at COX.NET Sun Apr 10 14:31:38 2005 From: youless at COX.NET (Steve Youles) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:31:38 -0400 Subject: HW: Collectors item! Message-ID: http://www.spheremusic.com/Bargaindtl.asp?Item=4372 takes you straight to it -------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:50:42 +0100, Captain Bl at ck wrote: >Anybody interested in a REAL piece of Hawkwind memorabilia should check out >www.vemia.co.uk and go to the auction rooms, lot number 4372....it's not >cheap but it sure is interesting. > >Keith >LucidSounDs. From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Sun Apr 10 15:45:37 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:45:37 -0400 Subject: HW: Collectors item! Message-ID: Unfortunately, www.spheremusic.com is riddled with more javascript errors than Mission Control, so I can't get there, but I assume that this is the HW -> Nik/ICU -> N.F. (purchased after the final ICU gig) (and fixed-up by capt. Bl at ck) Synthi? If I didn't already own the Wiard modular (http://www.wiard.com), I would have been bombarding the owner with offers before he had a chance to put it up on Vemia ... (Steve Pond, speak up if you're in the house!) -Doug jasret at mindspring.com On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:31:38 -0400, Steve Youles wrote: >http://www.spheremusic.com/Bargaindtl.asp?Item=4372 takes you straight >to it > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:50:42 +0100, Captain Bl at ck wrote: > >>Anybody interested in a REAL piece of Hawkwind memorabilia should check >>out www.vemia.co.uk and go to the auction rooms, lot number 4372....it's >>not cheap but it sure is interesting. >> >>Keith >>LucidSounDs. From jmajk at INDY.RR.COM Sun Apr 10 20:44:56 2005 From: jmajk at INDY.RR.COM (John Majka) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:44:56 -0500 Subject: Collectors item! Message-ID: hmmm.... if this webpage only worked, I'd be able to have a look! John Majka > Anybody interested in a REAL piece of Hawkwind memorabilia should check > out > www.vemia.co.uk and go to the auction rooms, lot number 4372....it's not > cheap but it sure is interesting. > > Keith > LucidSounDs. From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Mon Apr 11 08:55:47 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:55:47 +0100 Subject: OFF: Jerry Cornelius and TV racism (was: dr. who) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Ted Jackson wrote: > >>> jasret at MINDSPRING.COM 4/7/2005 3:04:03 PM >>> > > The prejudice/rascism thing would probably be the most difficult thing > to > get on tv these days, I think (although I wonder if anyone in the US > even > knows that "wog" is a rascist term ... or what it originally stood > for). > > Uh, is it "Westernized 'Oriental' Gentleman?" "Wily", originally, I think, but I get all this second-hand. > I think there's an even more racist meaning for "wog," isn't there? Oh probably. I mean you could easily update the Cornelius stuff with the terms used then that have survived, but the closest I've ever seen anyone get to this stuff on TV was a Fawlty Towers episode where the retired General tells of being horrified to hear someone describing the Indian cricket team as niggers, on the grounds that "these people are wogs!", and that was in the 80s originally, and even lampooning racism has become a lot more dicey since then. The trouble is that it's not not done just because no-one cares any more, in the way that for most English- speakers Victorian frothing about "Popery" is just inaccessible and pointless, but because it's felt to be too dangerous to discuss, and I'm not sure that confining racists or portrayals of racism to the leaflets of pressure groups and the wrong side of discrimination suits doesn't just offer us a way of pretending the problem isn't real any more. The Cornelius stuff is interesting in this respect, and not alone in Moorcock's writing in doing it, because it comes out of and catches the point where you have the old and new worlds colliding, in fact I think that's the main reason Professor Hira, wherever he crops up, is who he is, it's so that Moorcock has a vehicle to illustrate how some of his characters are prejudiced in terms of racism, sexuality, patriotism and religion and others just don't care and are moving easily through the disintegrating ethics. Of course it's two-edged because Cornelius, at least in the books where he's most developed and not just a cut-out hero, doesn't care a great deal too much and lots of people are always trying to get him to care about what they do. Anyway. Too much tea today perhaps, sorry, yours, Jon ObCD: Motorhead - _Bomber_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Mon Apr 11 09:44:41 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:44:41 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <000801c53bbb$c241c320$0a00000a@studybox> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Tony wrote: > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent convert to > them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In > Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend during > their UK tour and they were magnificent. What's more Steven Wilson > (songwriter, guitars, singer and all round genius) likes Hawkwind too. On > his personal website he lists "In Search Of Space" on his March playlist. > http://www.nomansland.demon.co.uk/playlist.html > Cool! I'm kind of ambivalent about Porcupine Tree these days, which is sad because they're the band I own most records by after Hawkwind by a pretty clear margin. The trouble is partly that a lot of that material is duplicated because they went through a period between record deals when they were really milking the fanbsase with re-release stuff with only a few new tracks on it, and I got sufficiently fed up of this that when _In Absentia_ came out in the US and was only available here on import I didn't get it because by then was sure that the eventual European release would have bonus tracks on it. The other reason is that I got into the band just after they released _The Sky Moves Sideways_ which point Steven Wilson played guitar like Dave Gilmour, they were doing huge long atmospheric prog pieces and tended to play fairly small spaces with Fruit Salad Lights who have also got less interesting since then, not tailoring their illuminations to the material and so on. The gig of theirs I saw in the late lamented Boat Race in Cambridge, which held about 200 people if you packed them in like sardines, and they were, with full light show, has got to be one of the most intense gig experiences I've ever had. And _Signify_ and so on held out the promise at this was going to be the band that did something new with the whole English psychedelic progressive crossover field that no-one's otherwise got over early Floyd in. Then everything went quiet except for re-release rarities and so on, they left their label (which died) and when they finally re-emerged it was with what I felt was a terribly uneasy attempt to mix the old lengthy prog with a new set of poppy singles which all sounded alike (this was _Stupid Dream_--unlike Keith H. I think this easily their worst album and is far worse than _Lightbulb Sun_ which actually managed to blend the styles convincingly) and from then on it just never got as interesting again. I do like _In Absentia_, and there's no doubt that Steven Wilson is developing all the time as a songwriter, but there's something distinctively his about PT material, and indeed the stuff he's written with Opeth, which these days I find dampens any excitement. The I. E. M. stuff and Bass Communion stuff also have their distinctive flavours but I haven't yet got bored of those; I imagine I easily could though. The early stuff, where each album was effectively by a different band, and that `voice' wasn't as set, still interests me much more. I play all the albums except _Stupid Dream_ now and again, and I'd hold up _Signify_ as one of the best albums Delerium ever released. The triple LP _Coma Divine_ is a gorgeous thing to own, and _Stars Die_ is a proper obsessive's box-set at bargain price for what you get. But, I am no longer very fanatic. Haven't seen them in ages because I don't expect to be surprised any more. I really should, but it seems difficult to believe it's going to be worth the effort because they won't do what I associate with the name. When I finally get round to getting the new one I may change my mind, but reviews so far don't make it seem likely. Let me see if I can frame this simply. When _Signify_ came out, there was nothing else around which did that and this was a band at the top of its game. When _Stupid Dream_ came out I got it at roughly the same time as Blur's self-titled, and the Britpop darlings had the supposed champions of the British underground out-psychdelicked in the first fifteen minutes. (That Blur album I would still say is really a great little pysch album, especially once you get the earphones on and start listening to what the guitar parts actually *are*.) Likewise, when _In Absentia_ came out it was more or less at the same point as Queens of the Stone Age's _Songs for the Deaf_, both bands with a mixed history going determinedly for the MTV2 jugular without compromising their actual quality of material as I saw it, and _Songs for the Deaf_ is by far the better album for me. These days PT are no longer the biggest and shiniest fish in a small pool but averagely remarkable fish in a much bigger sea, and they're not doing what made them stand out any more. So it seems to me, anyway, yours, Jon ObCD: Farflung - _Nine Pin Body_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Mon Apr 11 10:01:10 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:01:10 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree/iTMS In-Reply-To: <425653FE.6090405@carlaz.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > Though the point about only wanting given tracks is well taken. I dig > that Hendrix "Ezy Ryder" track from First Rays, but dunno if I'll dig > the rest of the album (I like Hendrix well enough, but I'm not a crazed > fan or anything). I'd pay 80p to get that track (though I haven't, > yet), but I'd rather pay a pound for a CD-quality audio file (though, > yeah, I listen to homemade 128kbps AACs all the time and they sound all > right). Speaking as a crazed fan, I think you should definitely get the whole album because it's got some great stuff on it, most especially the title track but a bunch of others too. It's very much as if the Hendrix family gathered up all the posthumous releases, put the best stuff onto that disc (_First Rays of the New Rising Sun_) and then piled the rest onto _South Saturn Delta_ for the hardcore fans only. There is some interesting stuff on the latter, but it's in no way the coherent album it sort of looks like, and a significant portion of it is variant versions of stuff on other discs. _New Rising Sun_ however is probably a fair attempt at putting together the _Electric Ladyland_ follow-up it was supposed to be. But you as I recall don't have _Axis_ and that's something you should really sort out first! :-) Yours, Jon ObCD: Farflung - _Nine Pin Body_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From jmajk at INDY.RR.COM Mon Apr 11 10:33:57 2005 From: jmajk at INDY.RR.COM (John Majka) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:33:57 -0500 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree Message-ID: I do enjoy Porcupine Tree quite a bit, but In Absentia left me cold. To my ears, it sounds rather derivative of the then-current metal fashion (which is, thankfully, already fading). I am extremely disappointed to hear that Deadwing is supposedly in a similar metal-ish vein. All of that sort of faux-gothic imagery and lyrical content is... funny! It seems there is quite a bit of criticism of Lightbulb Sun, but I still think that album is their most fully realized one, in that it successfully blends their rambling psychedelic tendencies with song structures and very solid lyrics. Stupid Dream is a close second. John Majka > On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Tony wrote: > >> What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent convert >> to >> them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In >> Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend >> during >> their UK tour and they were magnificent. What's more Steven Wilson >> (songwriter, guitars, singer and all round genius) likes Hawkwind too. >> On >> his personal website he lists "In Search Of Space" on his March playlist. >> http://www.nomansland.demon.co.uk/playlist.html >> Cool! > > I'm kind of ambivalent about Porcupine Tree these days, which is > sad because they're the band I own most records by after Hawkwind by a > pretty clear margin. The trouble is partly that a lot of that material is > duplicated because they went through a period between record deals when > they were really milking the fanbsase with re-release stuff with only a > few new tracks on it, and I got sufficiently fed up of this that when _In > Absentia_ came out in the US and was only available here on import I > didn't get it because by then was sure that the eventual European release > would have bonus tracks on it. > > The other reason is that I got into the band just after they > released _The Sky Moves Sideways_ which point Steven Wilson played guitar > like Dave Gilmour, they were doing huge long atmospheric prog pieces and > tended to play fairly small spaces with Fruit Salad Lights who have also > got less interesting since then, not tailoring their illuminations to the > material and so on. The gig of theirs I saw in the late lamented Boat > Race in Cambridge, which held about 200 people if you packed them in like > sardines, and they were, with full light show, has got to be one of the > most intense gig experiences I've ever had. And _Signify_ and so on held > out the promise at this was going to be the band that did something new > with the whole English psychedelic progressive crossover field that > no-one's otherwise got over early Floyd in. Then everything went quiet > except for re-release rarities and so on, they left their label (which > died) and when they finally re-emerged it was with what I felt was a > terribly uneasy attempt to mix the old lengthy prog with a new set of > poppy singles which all sounded alike (this was _Stupid Dream_--unlike > Keith H. I think this easily their worst album and is far worse than > _Lightbulb Sun_ which actually managed to blend the styles > convincingly) and from then on it just never got as interesting again. > > I do like _In Absentia_, and there's no doubt that Steven Wilson > is developing all the time as a songwriter, but there's something > distinctively his about PT material, and indeed the stuff he's written > with Opeth, which these days I find dampens any excitement. The > I. E. M. stuff and Bass Communion stuff also have their distinctive > flavours but I haven't yet got bored of those; I imagine I easily could > though. The early stuff, where each album was effectively by a different > band, and that `voice' wasn't as set, still interests me much more. I play > all the albums except _Stupid Dream_ now and again, and I'd hold up > _Signify_ as one of the best albums Delerium ever released. The triple LP > _Coma Divine_ is a gorgeous thing to own, and _Stars Die_ is a proper > obsessive's box-set at bargain price for what you get. But, I am no longer > very fanatic. Haven't seen them in ages because I don't expect to be > surprised any more. I really should, but it seems difficult to believe > it's going to be worth the effort because they won't do what I associate > with the name. > > When I finally get round to getting the new one I may change my > mind, but reviews so far don't make it seem likely. Let me see if I can > frame this simply. When _Signify_ came out, there was nothing else around > which did that and this was a band at the top of its game. When _Stupid > Dream_ came out I got it at roughly the same time as Blur's self-titled, > and the Britpop darlings had the supposed champions of the British > underground out-psychdelicked in the first fifteen minutes. (That Blur > album I would still say is really a great little pysch album, especially > once you get the earphones on and start listening to what the guitar parts > actually *are*.) Likewise, when _In Absentia_ came out it was more or less > at the same point as Queens of the Stone Age's _Songs for the Deaf_, both > bands with a mixed history going determinedly for the MTV2 jugular without > compromising their actual quality of material as I saw it, and _Songs for > the Deaf_ is by far the better album for me. These days PT are no longer > the biggest and shiniest fish in a small pool but averagely remarkable > fish in a much bigger sea, and they're not doing what made them stand out > any more. So it seems to me, anyway, yours, > Jon > > ObCD: Farflung - _Nine Pin Body_ > -- > Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London > jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk > "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, > So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." > (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From cea at CARLAZ.COM Mon Apr 11 10:50:56 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:50:56 +0100 Subject: OFF: Hendrixy things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 11/04/2005 15:01, Jon Jarrett wrote re Hendrix's _First Rays_: > Speaking as a crazed fan, I think you should definitely get the > whole album because it's got some great stuff on it, most especially the > title track but a bunch of others too. It's very much as if the Hendrix > family gathered up all the posthumous releases, put the best stuff onto > that disc (_First Rays of the New Rising Sun_) and then piled the rest > onto _South Saturn Delta_ for the hardcore fans only. > But you as I recall don't have _Axis_ and that's something you > should really sort out first! :-) Yeah, I'm still not sure which Axis is the right Axis. What are the details for the most recent UK (Experience Hendrix?) reissues? Well, in any case, both can be had pretty cheaply on Amazon.co.uk, so I'll have to add them to the list of "stuff to get" when I have the cash, Marshall buoys, and Fender controls .... Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson mailto:cea at carlaz.com http://www.carlaz.com/ From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Apr 11 15:29:58 2005 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:29:58 +0100 Subject: HW: Festivals - info wanted Message-ID: Come and see Litmus at the Doghouse in Dundee on April 23rd:) ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" To: Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:18 AM Subject: Re: HW: NIK: Festivals - info wanted > Keith Henderson writes: > > > P.S. Mike, you gonna be at Middlesbrough? or any of > > the other 'northernish' gigs? > > The way it looks just now, Croydon is the only one I could make... > > Mike > From greenhalgh.david at NTLWORLD.COM Mon Apr 11 15:39:13 2005 From: greenhalgh.david at NTLWORLD.COM (David Greenhalgh) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:39:13 +0100 Subject: Collectors item! In-Reply-To: <000e01c53e2f$aec0e7b0$6701a8c0@MAJKA> Message-ID: Worked for me. Here is the item description for any who can't read it. A wonderful Synthi AKS, in perfect playing condition, with some excellent mods, and a fascinating history. The EMS is originally thought to have belonged to Tim Blake, who sold it to Nik Turner (they shared a flat in London in 1973). Nik used it with Hawkwind, as did Simon House apparently, and Nik took it with him when he left in 1976. It was then used with his successive band, Inner City Unit, and sold after their last gig. It has the following modifications: 1. Oscillator temperature stabilisation on VCO's 1 & 2. 2. A 3.5mm Gate Input socket, which accepts positive triggers (ie Roland, Kenton Midi/CV etc). 3. Oscillator sync on VCO2. The source can be either VCO's 1 or 3. 4. Oscillator shape modulation, via the 2mm connector near the patchboard. A lead is included so that any source can be used via the patchboard. 5. Input Channel 2 keyboard disable switch. Useful if you want to process external signals whilst the sequencer is connected. 6. Sequencer transpose switch. Normal position is to the left. Once a sequence is running, move the switch to the right and the keyboard can be used to transpose the sequence to any key. It suffered one or two little accidents in the heat of the moment live, including apparently once being thrown right across the stage during one particularly good argument. But it has been superbly restored by Lucid Sound, with the invaluable help of Robin at EMS - who reconditioned the reverb, supplied replacement parts and offered great advice. The outside of the case has the Inner City Unit logo sprayed on it in a cavalier fashion, and the metalwork of the case is tarnished. All knobs and pins are excellent; the surface has some wear, but everything with the exception of a few numbers round the left output knob is easily readable. In certain lights you can see the remains of some felt-tip crosses showing a favourite patch on the matrix. The sequencer overlay is new old stock. This is a truly great instrument. The sync is stunning, picking out beautiful harmonic arpeggios that sound like a brilliant sequence; and the sequence transpose itself is something that every AKS should have - excellent. On 11 Apr 2005, at 01:44, John Majka wrote: > hmmm.... if this webpage only worked, I'd be able to have a look! > John Majka > > >> Anybody interested in a REAL piece of Hawkwind memorabilia should >> check >> out >> www.vemia.co.uk and go to the auction rooms, lot number 4372....it's >> not >> cheap but it sure is interesting. >> >> Keith >> LucidSounDs. > From chrisr at TIAC.NET Mon Apr 11 19:25:03 2005 From: chrisr at TIAC.NET (Chris Raymond) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:25:03 -0400 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- I was ambivalent about PT for about a year. I snapped out of it when I saw Blackfield in Boston a few weeks ago. The Blackfield album, although short in length and has short songs is a very nice CD. I think Deadwing is an amazing album. When I first heard it, I thought it was okay, I didn't play again for a few days, but now I think it is stunning. PT is on tour in Europe right now and longtime fans as well as newer fans are reporting the PT List that these gigs are fantastic. Today, Deadwing is my favorite album although my usual favorite is On The Sunday of Life. I will be seeing them in Boston when they swing through on May 18. I am very excited!!!!! Sorry for the continued off topic discussion, but there is no new Hawkwind CD to talk about. Maybe Take Me To Your Leader should be renamed Distant Horizons II Chris R. I'm kind of ambivalent about Porcupine Tree these days, which is sad because they're the band I own most records by after Hawkwind by a pretty clear margin. The trouble is partly that a lot of that material is duplicated because they went through a period between record deals when they were really milking the fanbsase with re-release stuff with only a few new tracks on it, and I got sufficiently fed up of this that when _In Absentia_ came out in the US and was only available here on import I didn't get it because by then was sure that the eventual European release would have bonus tracks on it. The other reason is that I got into the band just after they released _The Sky Moves Sideways_ which point Steven Wilson played guitar like Dave Gilmour, they were doing huge long atmospheric prog pieces and tended to play fairly small spaces with Fruit Salad Lights who have also got less interesting since then, not tailoring their illuminations to the material and so on. The gig of theirs I saw in the late lamented Boat Race in Cambridge, which held about 200 people if you packed them in like sardines, and they were, with full light show, has got to be one of the most intense gig experiences I've ever had. And _Signify_ and so on held out the promise at this was going to be the band that did something new with the whole English psychedelic progressive crossover field that no-one's otherwise got over early Floyd in. Then everything went quiet except for re-release rarities and so on, they left their label (which died) and when they finally re-emerged it was with what I felt was a terribly uneasy attempt to mix the old lengthy prog with a new set of poppy singles which all sounded alike (this was _Stupid Dream_--unlike Keith H. I think this easily their worst album and is far worse than _Lightbulb Sun_ which actually managed to blend the styles convincingly) and from then on it just never got as interesting again. I do like _In Absentia_, and there's no doubt that Steven Wilson is developing all the time as a songwriter, but there's something distinctively his about PT material, and indeed the stuff he's written with Opeth, which these days I find dampens any excitement. The I. E. M. stuff and Bass Communion stuff also have their distinctive flavours but I haven't yet got bored of those; I imagine I easily could though. The early stuff, where each album was effectively by a different band, and that `voice' wasn't as set, still interests me much more. I play all the albums except _Stupid Dream_ now and again, and I'd hold up _Signify_ as one of the best albums Delerium ever released. The triple LP _Coma Divine_ is a gorgeous thing to own, and _Stars Die_ is a proper obsessive's box-set at bargain price for what you get. But, I am no longer very fanatic. Haven't seen them in ages because I don't expect to be surprised any more. I really should, but it seems difficult to believe it's going to be worth the effort because they won't do what I associate with the name. When I finally get round to getting the new one I may change my mind, but reviews so far don't make it seem likely. Let me see if I can frame this simply. When _Signify_ came out, there was nothing else around which did that and this was a band at the top of its game. When _Stupid Dream_ came out I got it at roughly the same time as Blur's self-titled, and the Britpop darlings had the supposed champions of the British underground out-psychdelicked in the first fifteen minutes. (That Blur album I would still say is really a great little pysch album, especially once you get the earphones on and start listening to what the guitar parts actually *are*.) Likewise, when _In Absentia_ came out it was more or less at the same point as Queens of the Stone Age's _Songs for the Deaf_, both bands with a mixed history going determinedly for the MTV2 jugular without compromising their actual quality of material as I saw it, and _Songs for the Deaf_ is by far the better album for me. These days PT are no longer the biggest and shiniest fish in a small pool but averagely remarkable fish in a much bigger sea, and they're not doing what made them stand out any more. So it seems to me, anyway, yours, Jon ObCD: Farflung - _Nine Pin Body_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Tue Apr 12 19:35:16 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:35:16 -0400 Subject: OFF: multiverse.org ? Message-ID: The Michael Moorcock website seems to be down at the moment ... does anyone know whether this is a temporary or permanent condition? (Reason for checking: one of his favorite social theorists/authors died yesterday and I was wondering if he had any comment yet.) -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM Tue Apr 12 19:53:09 2005 From: JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM (JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:53:09 EDT Subject: OFF: multiverse.org ? Message-ID: In a message dated 4/12/2005 6:40:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time, jasret at MINDSPRING.COM writes: The Michael Moorcock website seems to be down at the moment ... does anyone know whether this is a temporary or permanent condition? I just checked. Seems to be working fine. If you're referring to Andrea Dworkin, yes, there's a thread in the 'Q&A' Forum. Joe From tony.orourke at TALK21.COM Wed Apr 13 05:17:36 2005 From: tony.orourke at TALK21.COM (Tony) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:17:36 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jon When did the Boatrace in Cambridge close? I used to go there a fair bit when I lived in Cambridge! Didn't PT just play The Junction? Tony -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Jon Jarrett Sent: 11 April 2005 14:45 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: Porcupine Tree On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Tony wrote: > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent convert to > them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In > Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend during > their UK tour and they were magnificent. What's more Steven Wilson > (songwriter, guitars, singer and all round genius) likes Hawkwind too. On > his personal website he lists "In Search Of Space" on his March playlist. > http://www.nomansland.demon.co.uk/playlist.html > Cool! I'm kind of ambivalent about Porcupine Tree these days, which is sad because they're the band I own most records by after Hawkwind by a pretty clear margin. The trouble is partly that a lot of that material is duplicated because they went through a period between record deals when they were really milking the fanbsase with re-release stuff with only a few new tracks on it, and I got sufficiently fed up of this that when _In Absentia_ came out in the US and was only available here on import I didn't get it because by then was sure that the eventual European release would have bonus tracks on it. The other reason is that I got into the band just after they released _The Sky Moves Sideways_ which point Steven Wilson played guitar like Dave Gilmour, they were doing huge long atmospheric prog pieces and tended to play fairly small spaces with Fruit Salad Lights who have also got less interesting since then, not tailoring their illuminations to the material and so on. The gig of theirs I saw in the late lamented Boat Race in Cambridge, which held about 200 people if you packed them in like sardines, and they were, with full light show, has got to be one of the most intense gig experiences I've ever had. And _Signify_ and so on held out the promise at this was going to be the band that did something new with the whole English psychedelic progressive crossover field that no-one's otherwise got over early Floyd in. Then everything went quiet except for re-release rarities and so on, they left their label (which died) and when they finally re-emerged it was with what I felt was a terribly uneasy attempt to mix the old lengthy prog with a new set of poppy singles which all sounded alike (this was _Stupid Dream_--unlike Keith H. I think this easily their worst album and is far worse than _Lightbulb Sun_ which actually managed to blend the styles convincingly) and from then on it just never got as interesting again. I do like _In Absentia_, and there's no doubt that Steven Wilson is developing all the time as a songwriter, but there's something distinctively his about PT material, and indeed the stuff he's written with Opeth, which these days I find dampens any excitement. The I. E. M. stuff and Bass Communion stuff also have their distinctive flavours but I haven't yet got bored of those; I imagine I easily could though. The early stuff, where each album was effectively by a different band, and that `voice' wasn't as set, still interests me much more. I play all the albums except _Stupid Dream_ now and again, and I'd hold up _Signify_ as one of the best albums Delerium ever released. The triple LP _Coma Divine_ is a gorgeous thing to own, and _Stars Die_ is a proper obsessive's box-set at bargain price for what you get. But, I am no longer very fanatic. Haven't seen them in ages because I don't expect to be surprised any more. I really should, but it seems difficult to believe it's going to be worth the effort because they won't do what I associate with the name. When I finally get round to getting the new one I may change my mind, but reviews so far don't make it seem likely. Let me see if I can frame this simply. When _Signify_ came out, there was nothing else around which did that and this was a band at the top of its game. When _Stupid Dream_ came out I got it at roughly the same time as Blur's self-titled, and the Britpop darlings had the supposed champions of the British underground out-psychdelicked in the first fifteen minutes. (That Blur album I would still say is really a great little pysch album, especially once you get the earphones on and start listening to what the guitar parts actually *are*.) Likewise, when _In Absentia_ came out it was more or less at the same point as Queens of the Stone Age's _Songs for the Deaf_, both bands with a mixed history going determinedly for the MTV2 jugular without compromising their actual quality of material as I saw it, and _Songs for the Deaf_ is by far the better album for me. These days PT are no longer the biggest and shiniest fish in a small pool but averagely remarkable fish in a much bigger sea, and they're not doing what made them stand out any more. So it seems to me, anyway, yours, Jon ObCD: Farflung - _Nine Pin Body_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From cea at CARLAZ.COM Wed Apr 13 05:43:56 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:43:56 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <000001c54009$a2347f80$0a00000a@studybox> Message-ID: On 13/04/2005 10:17, Tony wrote: > When did the Boatrace in Cambridge close? I used to go there a fair bit > when I lived in Cambridge! In the last year or so -- it's now a trendy looking bistro-ish place. Rumour has it that the people who run the Junction have applied to open/build a new place of the same size as the Boat Race (since it's license is free) but I don't know a) that this is true b) whether any progress has been made if it is. Cambridge is now equipped with the barn-like Corn Exchange (where HW played last year), the Junction (decent but not an ideal location at present), and then a couple of "pubs with little stages" like the Portland Arms and Man on the Moon. The Boat Race is sorely missed! Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson mailto:cea at carlaz.com http://www.carlaz.com/ From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Apr 13 06:33:34 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:33:34 +0100 Subject: OFF: multiverse.org ? In-Reply-To: Doug Pearson's message of Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:35:16 -0400 Message-ID: Doug Pearson writes: > The Michael Moorcock website seems to be down at the moment ... does > anyone know whether this is a temporary or permanent condition? > > (Reason for checking: one of his favorite social theorists/authors died > yesterday and I was wondering if he had any comment yet.) Dworkin The Censor? Yeah, what's with that? FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Apr 13 09:32:50 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:32:50 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: Looks like there's some German source offering the rare CD's on Ebay. Warrior and 25 Years On at least come with extra tracks. Presumably these aren't official? Also noticed in te shops the CD's "On Sundown" and "Codename Hawkwind". I dunno if the latter is one of the two previously released under that name but On Sundown looks like it could be Space Ritual Volume Two. FoFP From cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET Wed Apr 13 10:10:03 2005 From: cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET (Rich) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:10:03 -0500 Subject: OFF: multiverse.org ? In-Reply-To: <200504131033.j3DAXYI7004348@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Yes he had a bunch of comment, since she was one of his close personal friends. Rich -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of M Holmes Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:34 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: multiverse.org ? Doug Pearson writes: > The Michael Moorcock website seems to be down at the moment ... does > anyone know whether this is a temporary or permanent condition? > > (Reason for checking: one of his favorite social theorists/authors died > yesterday and I was wondering if he had any comment yet.) Dworkin The Censor? Yeah, what's with that? FoFP From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Wed Apr 13 16:08:30 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:08:30 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <000001c54009$a2347f80$0a00000a@studybox> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Tony wrote: > When did the Boatrace in Cambridge close? I used to go there a fair bit > when I lived in Cambridge! January, sad sad tale. The brewery decided they were going to refurbish it, and the landlord, who'd been behind its music scene for the last few years, asked them to confirm they'd be reopening it as a venue. They wouldn't, so he decided the gig was up, quite literally, and emigrated to see if he and his girlfriend in California actually could make a go of it. That may be the only good thing that's come out of the whole shebang. It's now a "bar & kitchen" called The Vine. There's light in it, it's all wrong. > Didn't PT just play The Junction? Damn, yes, it looks as if they did. Oh well, serve me right for being ignorant and them for not postering anywhere. Actually that should have been on the regular posters where I'd see it. How odd. Oh well. Yours, Jon ObCD: Satellite Circle - _Satellite Circle_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Wed Apr 13 20:25:03 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:25:03 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:32:50 +0100, M Holmes wrote: >Looks like there's some German source offering the rare CD's on Ebay. >Warrior and 25 Years On at least come with extra tracks. Yeah, these have been mentioned a few times. Has anyone actually bought one of them, or do I have to be the first one? (I could really use a CD copy of 25 Years On.) Does anyone know what the bonus tracks are? >Presumably these aren't official? That would be the logical assumption :^). Although if it was members of the band serruptitiously bootlegging themselves behind the label's back, it wouldn't be the first time. And given the band in question, it certainly wouldn't surprise me ... -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From cea at CARLAZ.COM Thu Apr 14 04:59:35 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:59:35 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 13/04/2005 21:08, Jon Jarrett wrote: > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Tony wrote: >> Didn't PT just play The Junction? > > Damn, yes, it looks as if they did. Oh well, serve me right for > being ignorant and them for not postering anywhere. Actually that should > have been on the regular posters where I'd see it. How odd. Oh > well. Scott Heller spotted on a poster on Parker's Piece as we were strolling along over the weekend, but that was after it'd happened! Ah well, I don't think I could have made it anyway .... Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson mailto:cea at carlaz.com http://www.carlaz.com/ From m.j.crook at TALK21.COM Thu Apr 14 15:01:10 2005 From: m.j.crook at TALK21.COM (Michael Crook) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:01:10 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: --- Doug Pearson wrote: > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:32:50 +0100, M Holmes > > wrote: > > >Looks like there's some German source offering the > rare CD's on Ebay. > >Warrior and 25 Years On at least come with extra > tracks. > > Yeah, these have been mentioned a few times. Has > anyone actually bought > one of them, or do I have to be the first one? (I > could really use a CD > copy of 25 Years On.) Does anyone know what the > bonus tracks are? > > >Presumably these aren't official? > > That would be the logical assumption :^). > > Although if it was members of the band > serruptitiously bootlegging > themselves behind the label's back, it wouldn't be > the first time. And > given the band in question, it certainly wouldn't > surprise me ... > > -Doug > jasret at mindspring.com The live bonus tracks on the dodgy "new" Hawklords CDs on EBay are live versions of "Who's Gonna Win the War" and "Drug Cabinet Key" which is of course "Flying Doctor". There are loads of these on Ebay - very naughty!! Mick > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Thu Apr 14 16:02:42 2005 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:02:42 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: and, unfortunately, nobody appears to be policing it. Makes you wonder. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Crook" To: Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:01 PM Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > --- Doug Pearson wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:32:50 +0100, M Holmes > > > > wrote: > > > > >Looks like there's some German source offering the > > rare CD's on Ebay. > > >Warrior and 25 Years On at least come with extra > > tracks. > > > > Yeah, these have been mentioned a few times. Has > > anyone actually bought > > one of them, or do I have to be the first one? (I > > could really use a CD > > copy of 25 Years On.) Does anyone know what the > > bonus tracks are? > > > > >Presumably these aren't official? > > > > That would be the logical assumption :^). > > > > Although if it was members of the band > > serruptitiously bootlegging > > themselves behind the label's back, it wouldn't be > > the first time. And > > given the band in question, it certainly wouldn't > > surprise me ... > > > > -Doug > > jasret at mindspring.com > > > The live bonus tracks on the dodgy "new" Hawklords > CDs on EBay are live versions of "Who's Gonna Win the > War" and "Drug Cabinet Key" which is of course "Flying > Doctor". There are loads of these on Ebay - very > naughty!! > > Mick > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > From chrizdove at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK Thu Apr 14 16:32:31 2005 From: chrizdove at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK (Chris Dove) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:32:31 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: ahhh but someone is making money from it ..... who? lol... From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Thu Apr 14 16:32:39 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:32:39 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: <002c01c5412c$eaf63e60$6cd1fea9@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Thu, 2005-04-14 at 21:02 +0100, Colin J Allen wrote: > and, unfortunately, nobody appears to be policing it. Makes you wonder. Do you mean the current VeRO representative for Hawkwind is not contacting eBay to have the auctions removed, or that the VeRO representative is oblivious to the existence of the dodgy CDs? I know that, in a sense, we on here partially police the situation inasmuch as we tend to discover and mention on BOC-L when dodgy auctions related to the band crop up on eBay. (This happens a lot on other music mailing lists.) But, I guess, that doesn't necessarily mean the information gets to someone who can do something about it. Is there a "report a dodgy eBay auction" link on the official Hawkwind Web site, should someone feel inclined to do their Hawkwind civic duty? Do the band even want such reports? Makes you wonder. Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 14 16:37:34 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:37:34 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:01:10 +0100, Michael Crook wrote: >The live bonus tracks on the dodgy "new" Hawklords >CDs on EBay are live versions of "Who's Gonna Win the >War" and "Drug Cabinet Key" which is of course "Flying >Doctor". There are loads of these on Ebay - very >naughty!! Interesting (good) picks, since "Drug Cabinet Key" has never been released on CD, nor has the single edit version of "Who's Gonna Win The War" (Hawklords version on Flicknife, not the Hawkwind version on Bronze). I wonder if one can tell whether those two tracks were mastered from vinyl (given the quality of Flicknife vinyl pressings, it would be *very* difficult, if not impossible, to clean up such a track enough to make it unrecognizably vinyl-sourced) ... or not (which would definitely be interesting) ... -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From bartbrugmans at PLANET.NL Fri Apr 15 03:51:52 2005 From: bartbrugmans at PLANET.NL (Bart Brugmans) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:51:52 +0200 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: <20050414190110.74946.qmail@web86211.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > The live bonus tracks on the dodgy "new" Hawklords > CDs on EBay are live versions of "Who's Gonna Win the > War" and "Drug Cabinet Key" which is of course "Flying > Doctor". There are loads of these on Ebay - very > naughty!! If you search for german record stores on the net, you can find a lot of them selling the cd's for 12 to 15 euro's. And it is tempting, as the official cd's sell for a lot more (for wich the band doesn't make any money either....) Bart From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 15 05:01:48 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:01:48 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: Colin J Allen's message of Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:02:42 +0100 Message-ID: Colin J Allen writes: > and, unfortunately, nobody appears to be policing it. Makes you wonder. Ah, it's not the same as The Colin Era when Ebay bandits were scared to come into town... FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 15 05:03:11 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:03:11 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: Paul Mather's message of Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:32:39 -0400 Message-ID: Paul Mather writes: > I know that, in a sense, we on here partially police the situation > inasmuch as we tend to discover and mention on BOC-L when dodgy auctions > related to the band crop up on eBay. (This happens a lot on other music > mailing lists.) But, I guess, that doesn't necessarily mean the > information gets to someone who can do something about it. Is there a > "report a dodgy eBay auction" link on the official Hawkwind Web site, > should someone feel inclined to do their Hawkwind civic duty? Do the > band even want such reports? What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright holder to make Ebay jump? FoFP From bartbrugmans at PLANET.NL Fri Apr 15 05:17:52 2005 From: bartbrugmans at PLANET.NL (Bart Brugmans) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:17:52 +0200 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: <200504150903.j3F93BKD009752@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 15 Apr 2005 at 10:03, M Holmes wrote: > What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright > holder to make Ebay jump? i think that's the case. It is not a live-recording and/or cd-r, which anyone can report. It looks legitimed to ebay. So I think the copyright owner has to complain about this. Bart From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Apr 15 08:17:44 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:17:44 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: <200504150903.j3F93BKD009752@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 2005-04-15 at 10:03 +0100, M Holmes wrote: > Paul Mather writes: > > > I know that, in a sense, we on here partially police the situation > > inasmuch as we tend to discover and mention on BOC-L when dodgy auctions > > related to the band crop up on eBay. (This happens a lot on other music > > mailing lists.) But, I guess, that doesn't necessarily mean the > > information gets to someone who can do something about it. Is there a > > "report a dodgy eBay auction" link on the official Hawkwind Web site, > > should someone feel inclined to do their Hawkwind civic duty? Do the > > band even want such reports? > > What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright holder > to make Ebay jump? It has been my experience that they'll e-mail you back some standard boilerplate reply about how only the VeRO representative can ask for infringing auctions to be removed. If you are lucky and the auction text happens to define the item as being illegitimate for listing (e.g., a CD-R) they might take it down. So, unless you're the VeRO, you're unlikely to get far. That probably accounts for a lot of the vigilante bidding sabotage that people engage in to try and wreck auctions for dodgy items. I know on the Gov't Mule list that a favourite tactic is to contact the current bidders and offer a B&P copy of the live show being auctioned if the lister won't take down the auction voluntarily. Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU Fri Apr 15 09:20:10 2005 From: dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU (David Kuznick) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:20:10 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: <1113567464.81261.13.camel@zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org> Message-ID: Quoting Paul Mather : > On Fri, 2005-04-15 at 10:03 +0100, M Holmes wrote: > > Paul Mather writes: > > > > > I know that, in a sense, we on here partially police the situation > > > inasmuch as we tend to discover and mention on BOC-L when dodgy auctions > > > related to the band crop up on eBay. (This happens a lot on other music > > > mailing lists.) But, I guess, that doesn't necessarily mean the > > > information gets to someone who can do something about it. Is there a > > > "report a dodgy eBay auction" link on the official Hawkwind Web site, > > > should someone feel inclined to do their Hawkwind civic duty? Do the > > > band even want such reports? > > > > What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright holder > > to make Ebay jump? > > It has been my experience that they'll e-mail you back some standard > boilerplate reply about how only the VeRO representative can ask for > infringing auctions to be removed. If you are lucky and the auction > text happens to define the item as being illegitimate for listing (e.g., > a CD-R) they might take it down. I once reported a Russian posting of an obviously pirated copy of the Marillion "Marbles" album because the tracklisting was different and it was taken down. It can't hurt to try. -- David Kuznick dkuznickATalumni.brandeis.edu "You should have seen the curse that flew right by you Page of concrete, stained walks crutch in hobbled sway Auto-da-f?, a capillary hint of red. Only this manupod crescent in shape has escaped" Televators - THE MARS VOLTA From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 15 13:46:04 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:46:04 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" > > What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright holder > to make Ebay jump? There was a good police force for this in addition to Colin's sterling work - it was called "neo-quark" .. whatever happened to that? Oh yeah .... Abie From cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET Fri Apr 15 16:23:06 2005 From: cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET (Rich) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:23:06 -0500 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: <004901c541e2$ff517530$69044054@SN037539420006> Message-ID: While Neo-Quark did have it's merits in the days of old before the taping ban. I did start seeing dealers selling the neo-quark recordings at U.K. record fairs which was well out of order. EVEN at one of the fairs where Dave was signing stuff which was just taking the piss. So not really a great police force. Rich -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Ian Abrahams Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:46 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" > > What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright holder > to make Ebay jump? There was a good police force for this in addition to Colin's sterling work - it was called "neo-quark" .. whatever happened to that? Oh yeah .... Abie From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 15 17:06:23 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:06:23 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: Rich, Bootlegs were sold at fairs long before neo-quark (and Camden used to be full of them on a Saturday morning) - it wasn't any reflection on the internet trading - these shows would be have been around anyway., Neo-Quark had a passion for the music equalled by its passion for ensuring the band didn't get ripped off - that isn't diminished by not being able to police every music fair stall. Hawkwind, for no tangible gain, decided that unlike a lot of bands of their level they would be anti-trading but IMHO they haven't gained anything (where is that elusive deal?) but they've lost some goodwill. Perfecty within their rights, quite a proper thing to do if they so desire - but at the stage in the game that they are at, somewhat hard to reconcile really with the good efforts made on the band's behalf. Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:23 PM Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > While Neo-Quark did have it's merits in the days of old before the taping > ban. > > I did start seeing dealers selling the neo-quark recordings at U.K. record > fairs which was well out of order. EVEN at one of the fairs where Dave was > signing stuff which was just taking the piss. > > So not really a great police force. > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Ian Abrahams > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:46 PM > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "M Holmes" > > > > What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright holder > > to make Ebay jump? > > There was a good police force for this in addition to Colin's sterling > work - it was called "neo-quark" .. whatever happened to that? > > Oh yeah .... > > Abie > From cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET Fri Apr 15 17:48:44 2005 From: cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET (Rich) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:48:44 -0500 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: <008101c541fe$faee3160$69044054@SN037539420006> Message-ID: I'm sure I didn't mean to diminish Neo-Quarks efforts/passion. Just that the police force comment was a bit strong ;-)in the original post. Rich -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Ian Abrahams Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 4:06 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? Rich, Bootlegs were sold at fairs long before neo-quark (and Camden used to be full of them on a Saturday morning) - it wasn't any reflection on the internet trading - these shows would be have been around anyway., Neo-Quark had a passion for the music equalled by its passion for ensuring the band didn't get ripped off - that isn't diminished by not being able to police every music fair stall. Hawkwind, for no tangible gain, decided that unlike a lot of bands of their level they would be anti-trading but IMHO they haven't gained anything (where is that elusive deal?) but they've lost some goodwill. Perfecty within their rights, quite a proper thing to do if they so desire - but at the stage in the game that they are at, somewhat hard to reconcile really with the good efforts made on the band's behalf. Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:23 PM Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > While Neo-Quark did have it's merits in the days of old before the taping > ban. > > I did start seeing dealers selling the neo-quark recordings at U.K. record > fairs which was well out of order. EVEN at one of the fairs where Dave was > signing stuff which was just taking the piss. > > So not really a great police force. > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Ian Abrahams > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:46 PM > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "M Holmes" > > > > What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright holder > > to make Ebay jump? > > There was a good police force for this in addition to Colin's sterling > work - it was called "neo-quark" .. whatever happened to that? > > Oh yeah .... > > Abie > From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Apr 15 18:10:32 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:10:32 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 2005-04-15 at 15:23 -0500, Rich wrote: > While Neo-Quark did have it's merits in the days of old before the taping > ban. > > I did start seeing dealers selling the neo-quark recordings at U.K. record > fairs which was well out of order. EVEN at one of the fairs where Dave was > signing stuff which was just taking the piss. If you look back at the early history of neo-quark, a lot of the recordings spread via trees, B&P offers, and the likes were liberated bootlegs (e.g., The Hawk Logs Master Series). So, it's not surprising you saw "neo-quark" recordings at record fairs, because a lot of them came from there in the first place (though often "cleaned up" and improved by neo-quarkers). :-) Later on, there were more "original releases" of old stealth recordings lying around on cassette. There were even some stealth recordings of contemporary gigs, or of things like interviews taped off the radio, etc. All this stuff had and would have circulated around the Hawkwind fanbase. Whereas it might have been easier for bootleggers to get ahold of these recordings via neo-quark, it's unrealistic to think that they wouldn't have percolated through to the bootleggers anyway through natural osmosis from the collective fanbase (or through direct involvement of the bootleggers). Neo-quark never sold anything, nor did it force any dealers to sell any of its output. (In fact, neo-quark were always at pains to point out they were for trade only and not for sale.) Those dealers made up their own minds to rip off the band---as had been the case before neo-quark existed, and is the case now that neo-quark no longer actively trades Hawkwind material. If anything, neo-quark was competition for the bootleggers: it provided equivalent "product" for next to nothing. It lessened the chance that a fan would be disappointed at being ripped off having paid a lot for a "rare Hawkwind release." Ripped-off Hawkwind fans have less money to spend on legitimate Hawkwind releases (assuming such things exist still these days:). They're also more likely to become disenchanted and drift away from buying Hawkwind output. Unfortunately, neo-quark can no longer act as competition for the bootleggers, so it's business as usual for them once again. My experience of neo-quark was that it promoted an interest and excitement for Hawkwind. People felt energised about kollecting the back catalogue and going to see them live. That's not a bad thing in my book. > So not really a great police force. It's not realistic to expect an online group to "police" the offline world, at least not in my opinion. I never saw neo-quark as "policing" anything. They'd report illegal eBay auctions when they found them, because it was felt that selling bootlegs was bad for the band and the fans. They never saw it as some "holy mission" though. I could be wrong. Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 15 18:11:19 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:11:19 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: Maybe... I just felt there were people who were doing their best to keep within the spirit of the band and perhaps the concept deserved something a little better than the way the trading ban was approached - but its water under the bridge really. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > I'm sure I didn't mean to diminish Neo-Quarks efforts/passion. > > Just that the police force comment was a bit strong ;-)in the original post. > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Ian Abrahams > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 4:06 PM > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > > > Rich, > > Bootlegs were sold at fairs long before neo-quark (and Camden used to be > full of them on a Saturday morning) - it wasn't any reflection on the > internet trading - these shows would be have been around anyway., Neo-Quark > had a passion for the music equalled by its passion for ensuring the band > didn't get ripped off - that isn't diminished by not being able to police > every music fair stall. Hawkwind, for no tangible gain, decided that unlike > a lot of bands of their level they would be anti-trading but IMHO they > haven't gained anything (where is that elusive deal?) but they've lost some > goodwill. Perfecty within their rights, quite a proper thing to do if they > so desire - but at the stage in the game that they are at, somewhat hard to > reconcile really with the good efforts made on the band's behalf. > > Ian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:23 PM > Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > > > > While Neo-Quark did have it's merits in the days of old before the taping > > ban. > > > > I did start seeing dealers selling the neo-quark recordings at U.K. record > > fairs which was well out of order. EVEN at one of the fairs where Dave > was > > signing stuff which was just taking the piss. > > > > So not really a great police force. > > > > Rich > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Ian Abrahams > > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:46 PM > > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > > Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "M Holmes" > > > > > > What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright holder > > > to make Ebay jump? > > > > There was a good police force for this in addition to Colin's sterling > > work - it was called "neo-quark" .. whatever happened to that? > > > > Oh yeah .... > > > > Abie > > > From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Fri Apr 15 19:43:42 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:43:42 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:10:32 -0400, Paul Mather wrote: >If anything, neo-quark was competition for the >bootleggers: it provided equivalent "product" for next to nothing. It >lessened the chance that a fan would be disappointed at being ripped off >having paid a lot for a "rare Hawkwind release." Remember the cassete-skull-and-crossbones logo "Home taping is killing the music industry" public service adverts? I want to see one with a CD-skull- and-crossbones logo that says, "Home CD recording is killing the bootleg industry". Certainly they're the ones who stand to lose the most from the free exchange of non-officially-released audience recordings. -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From tony.orourke at TALK21.COM Fri Apr 15 20:33:46 2005 From: tony.orourke at TALK21.COM (Tony) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:33:46 +0100 Subject: OFF: Porcupine Tree In-Reply-To: <000001c54009$a2347f80$0a00000a@studybox> Message-ID: Can I just say, as a relative newcomer to the wonders of Porcupine Tree, that "Radioactive Toy" rocks! Surely the best Pink Floyd song they never wrote. -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: 13 April 2005 10:18 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: Porcupine Tree Jon When did the Boatrace in Cambridge close? I used to go there a fair bit when I lived in Cambridge! Didn't PT just play The Junction? Tony -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Jon Jarrett Sent: 11 April 2005 14:45 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: Porcupine Tree On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Tony wrote: > What does this list think of Porcupine Tree? I'm only a recent convert to > them, only having heard a couple of tracks from their last album - In > Absentia. But I have to say I'm now a fan! I saw them last weekend during > their UK tour and they were magnificent. What's more Steven Wilson > (songwriter, guitars, singer and all round genius) likes Hawkwind too. On > his personal website he lists "In Search Of Space" on his March playlist. > http://www.nomansland.demon.co.uk/playlist.html > Cool! I'm kind of ambivalent about Porcupine Tree these days, which is sad because they're the band I own most records by after Hawkwind by a pretty clear margin. The trouble is partly that a lot of that material is duplicated because they went through a period between record deals when they were really milking the fanbsase with re-release stuff with only a few new tracks on it, and I got sufficiently fed up of this that when _In Absentia_ came out in the US and was only available here on import I didn't get it because by then was sure that the eventual European release would have bonus tracks on it. The other reason is that I got into the band just after they released _The Sky Moves Sideways_ which point Steven Wilson played guitar like Dave Gilmour, they were doing huge long atmospheric prog pieces and tended to play fairly small spaces with Fruit Salad Lights who have also got less interesting since then, not tailoring their illuminations to the material and so on. The gig of theirs I saw in the late lamented Boat Race in Cambridge, which held about 200 people if you packed them in like sardines, and they were, with full light show, has got to be one of the most intense gig experiences I've ever had. And _Signify_ and so on held out the promise at this was going to be the band that did something new with the whole English psychedelic progressive crossover field that no-one's otherwise got over early Floyd in. Then everything went quiet except for re-release rarities and so on, they left their label (which died) and when they finally re-emerged it was with what I felt was a terribly uneasy attempt to mix the old lengthy prog with a new set of poppy singles which all sounded alike (this was _Stupid Dream_--unlike Keith H. I think this easily their worst album and is far worse than _Lightbulb Sun_ which actually managed to blend the styles convincingly) and from then on it just never got as interesting again. I do like _In Absentia_, and there's no doubt that Steven Wilson is developing all the time as a songwriter, but there's something distinctively his about PT material, and indeed the stuff he's written with Opeth, which these days I find dampens any excitement. The I. E. M. stuff and Bass Communion stuff also have their distinctive flavours but I haven't yet got bored of those; I imagine I easily could though. The early stuff, where each album was effectively by a different band, and that `voice' wasn't as set, still interests me much more. I play all the albums except _Stupid Dream_ now and again, and I'd hold up _Signify_ as one of the best albums Delerium ever released. The triple LP _Coma Divine_ is a gorgeous thing to own, and _Stars Die_ is a proper obsessive's box-set at bargain price for what you get. But, I am no longer very fanatic. Haven't seen them in ages because I don't expect to be surprised any more. I really should, but it seems difficult to believe it's going to be worth the effort because they won't do what I associate with the name. When I finally get round to getting the new one I may change my mind, but reviews so far don't make it seem likely. Let me see if I can frame this simply. When _Signify_ came out, there was nothing else around which did that and this was a band at the top of its game. When _Stupid Dream_ came out I got it at roughly the same time as Blur's self-titled, and the Britpop darlings had the supposed champions of the British underground out-psychdelicked in the first fifteen minutes. (That Blur album I would still say is really a great little pysch album, especially once you get the earphones on and start listening to what the guitar parts actually *are*.) Likewise, when _In Absentia_ came out it was more or less at the same point as Queens of the Stone Age's _Songs for the Deaf_, both bands with a mixed history going determinedly for the MTV2 jugular without compromising their actual quality of material as I saw it, and _Songs for the Deaf_ is by far the better album for me. These days PT are no longer the biggest and shiniest fish in a small pool but averagely remarkable fish in a much bigger sea, and they're not doing what made them stand out any more. So it seems to me, anyway, yours, Jon ObCD: Farflung - _Nine Pin Body_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Apr 15 20:38:34 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:38:34 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 2005-04-15 at 19:43 -0400, Doug Pearson wrote: > Remember the cassete-skull-and-crossbones logo "Home taping is killing the > music industry" public service adverts? I remember having a Venom LP with that cassette skull-and-crossbones logo on the sleeve with "Home taping is killing music" on it, underneath which was appended "...and so are Venom!" You've got to admire their sense of humour. Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Fri Apr 15 21:03:37 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:03:37 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:38:34 -0400, Paul Mather wrote: >I remember having a Venom LP with that cassette skull-and-crossbones >logo on the sleeve with "Home taping is killing music" on it, underneath >which was appended "...and so are Venom!" You've got to admire their >sense of humour. I certainly do! My favorite Venom record is the spoken-word 7". The one that splices all the between-song banter together from a show they did in New Jersey (with all the music cut out). Sort of like that track on 'Undisclosed Files' that splices all of Nik Turner's dedications together (I wasn't going to bother posting this to the list until I remembered that similarity!). -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Apr 16 05:44:40 2005 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:44:40 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? Message-ID: Yes; unfortunately. Despite all of their "commitment" to stopping illegitimate sales, e-bay are not really very interested. Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:03 AM Subject: Re: more dodgy CD's? > Paul Mather writes: > > > I know that, in a sense, we on here partially police the situation > > inasmuch as we tend to discover and mention on BOC-L when dodgy auctions > > related to the band crop up on eBay. (This happens a lot on other music > > mailing lists.) But, I guess, that doesn't necessarily mean the > > information gets to someone who can do something about it. Is there a > > "report a dodgy eBay auction" link on the official Hawkwind Web site, > > should someone feel inclined to do their Hawkwind civic duty? Do the > > band even want such reports? > > What happens if we report to Ebay? Does it have to be a copyright holder > to make Ebay jump? > > FoFP > From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Apr 16 05:52:55 2005 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:52:55 +0100 Subject: HW: Litmus Gig Message-ID: Just a reminder that Litmus are playing at the Standard Music Venue in Walthamstow tomorrow (Sunday) night as support to the David Cross band, who are using the gig as a warm-up before embarking on a Japanese tour. Litmus are due on stage about 20:00. A cracking night last night at the Celtic Warriors' Birthday Bash - a stunningly well-organised event. Colin From jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM Sun Apr 17 07:01:17 2005 From: jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM (Jerry Kranitz) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:01:17 -0400 Subject: OFF: Aural Innovations Radio: New Kozmik Ken Experience and Alchemical Radio shows Message-ID: http://Aural-Innovations.com April 17, 2005: NEW RADIO SHOWS We've just uploaded new shows from The Kozmik Ken Experience (April 2005), and Alchemical Radio (show #84). You can go directly to the Radio shows page at: http://aural-innovations.com/radio/radio.html The Kozmik Ken Experience (April 2005) (Space Rock & Psychedelia) Hidria Spacefolk - "Modus Operand Hermetik" (from Balansia) Cosmic Jokers - "Im Reich der Magier" (from Sci-Fi Party) Gong - "Supercotton" (from Acid Motherhood) Soundtrack of our Lives - "Bigtime" (from Bigtime) Endino's Earthworm - "Fried, Baked or Scrambled" (from Succour) Vibrasonic - "Kingsley J" (from Vibrasonic) Magic Mushroom Band - "Tomorrow Never Knows" (from Process of Illumination) Nosound - "The Moment She Knew" (from Sol 29) Melting Euphoria - "Surrounding Yesterday" (from Over The Edge Of The World) Body - "The Sun Will Never Shine On" (from The Body Album... Plus) Violeta de Outonu - "Scinbras Flutuantes" (from Rio Art Rock) Alchemical Radio (show #84) Alchemical Radio is produced by our friends Terri~B and The Reverend Rabbit from the Stone Premonitions label, and features some of the best Psychedelia, Progressive Rock, Metal, and adventurous Pop that the underground has to offer. Visit the Stone Premonitions web site at http://aural-innovations.com/stonepremonitions Soniq Theater ? "The Anger Of Zeus" Symphony In Demeanor ? "Another Birthday" Terri Hendrix ? "It?s About Time" Twisterbait ? "Bombs" 4QUA ? "Angel Of My Heart" After Dark ? "Never Know Why" Anton Barbeau - "Mahjong Dijon" The Baghdaddies ? "6.8 We?ll Be Late" First Band From Outer Space ? "Sannraijz" The Bevis Frond ? "Dragons" Bob Seawick ? "Train To Limon" The Buzzrats ? "Fireproof Box" Cafebar 401 ? "Many Left Here Long Ago" Camilla Ringquist ? "Drummer Boy" Cheese ? "Fallen From The Sun" Deb Sandland ? "The Scarecrow" David Eggar & Thomas Simon ? "Foehn" http://Aural-Innovations.com From novadrive at COMCAST.NET Mon Apr 18 04:27:58 2005 From: novadrive at COMCAST.NET (Kevin Sommers) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 01:27:58 -0700 Subject: HW: A few more photos added to KMSommers.com Message-ID: I've added a few more shots to the Hawkwind page of my website, including a couple of the 90 LA sound check: http://www.kmsommers.com/Hawkwind.htm I'm also slowly rewriting all the pages by hand, after growing frustrated by using Word as HTML editor and having it force certain things on me (or at least I couldn't figure a way around) and not letting me do others (that I could figure out, that is). Eventually, in the hopefully not too distant future, it'll be my online portfolio.... Kevin M Sommers http://www.kmsommers.com From neil.shilladay at MICROLISE.COM Mon Apr 18 10:36:14 2005 From: neil.shilladay at MICROLISE.COM (Neil Shilladay) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:36:14 +0100 Subject: HW: Spring Tour support Message-ID: Has any support been announced for the spring tour ? (Sorry if this has allready been announced - I seem to be getting very intermittent email from the group at the moment) Cheers Neil. -- Any views or opinions presented in this Email message are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Microlise Group unless otherwise specifically stated. Email communications are not necessarily secure and therefore the Microlise Group does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, please notify Microlise immediately. Microlise Group Limited +44(0)1773 537000 From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Mon Apr 18 21:13:16 2005 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:13:16 -0400 Subject: BRAIN/BOC: Helen Wheels news on Cellsum! Message-ID: To Helen With Love: The Concert The long awaited Helen Wheels Tribute concert video has finally been completed. It will not be available for sale until early May but you can see the trailer by clicking here. The concert, which took place in New York City on December 4th, 2001, features performances by Buck Dharma, Manitoba's Wild Kingdom, the Brain Surgeons, Bouchard, Dunaway and Smith, Static Cling, Tish and Snooky, Crispin Cioe and many different combinations of musicians. It also features interviews with performers and audience members and behind the scenes peeks of this special night. From blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM Tue Apr 19 13:46:09 2005 From: blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM (blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:46:09 -0400 Subject: BRAIN/BOC: Helen Wheels news on Cellsum! Message-ID: Hey J, When this comes out, I think it would be cool if you re-posted the original review you wrote of the Helen Wheels tribute show. It would be interesting to see how watching it on DVD meshes with the experience of actually being there. Brian NP> Sasquatch, _Sasquatch_ Jason Scruton wrote: > The long awaited Helen Wheels Tribute concert video has finally been > completed. It will not be available for sale until early May but you can > see the trailer by clicking > here. From swann at CUGC.ORG Tue Apr 19 22:28:09 2005 From: swann at CUGC.ORG (Stephen Swann) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:28:09 -0400 Subject: paging Mister Swann In-Reply-To: <200502181608.j1IG8wBq011833@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>; from fofp@HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK on Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 04:08:58PM +0000 Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 04:08:58PM +0000, M Holmes wrote: > Dunno if that message also got lost in the hiatus, but it might be worth > getting word to Steve Swann that two originals of that USA Tour 89 VHS > tape he was after are being sold on Ebay. > > FoFP Shit! That's what I get for not reading the list lately. Thanks for the attempted heads-up, anyway, Mike... I'll repeat my offer to buy an original VHS of that, in good condition, at a silly price. Where by silly price I mean, you'll hear what I'm willing to pay and you'll think, "He's gone silly". -- Steve Swann | Speak to me in many voices, make swann at cugc.org | them all sound like one From swann at CUGC.ORG Tue Apr 19 23:32:22 2005 From: swann at CUGC.ORG (Stephen Swann) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:32:22 -0400 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay In-Reply-To: <200502181544.j1IFi9Ze000789@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>; from fofp@HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK on Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 03:44:09PM +0000 Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 03:44:09PM +0000, M Holmes wrote: > Seems my last post didn't get through? > > There have been some astonishing prices for Warrior, Quark and PXR5 on > Ebay. Are these normal or is it some sort of hype? This reminds me, I recently picked up a strange, possibly bootleggy thing which is the Hawklords "25 Years On" album, plus a couple of live tracks. It's not a CD-R, it's a commercially pressed CD, with copyright info that looks a little odd to me: (P) 1978 Charisma Records (C) 2001 Rock Fever RFM 014 Made under license from Ridgetop Music This compilation (P) & (C) Rock Fever Music, Baumstrabe 10, 21175 Hamburg, Germany It has the 8 tracks of the original release, plus these two live tracks: 9. Who's Gonna Win The War 5:54 (Brock) 10. Drug Cabinet Key 6:06 (Brock/Calvert) I was actually a little irritated when I received it, since I *thought* I had scored a copy of the ultra-rare Virgin/Charisma disc. I just didn't read the fine print when I bought it... :-P -- Steve Swann | Speak to me in many voices, make swann at cugc.org | them all sound like one From bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM Tue Apr 19 23:40:50 2005 From: bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM (gary shindler) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:40:50 -0700 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay In-Reply-To: <20050419233222.B26320@cugc.org> Message-ID: Somebody just asked about that one the other day. --- Stephen Swann wrote: > On Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 03:44:09PM +0000, M Holmes > wrote: > > Seems my last post didn't get through? > > > > There have been some astonishing prices for > Warrior, Quark and PXR5 on > > Ebay. Are these normal or is it some sort of hype? > > This reminds me, I recently picked up a strange, > possibly bootleggy thing which is the Hawklords "25 > Years On" album, plus a couple of live tracks. It's > not a CD-R, it's a commercially pressed CD, with > copyright info that looks a little odd to me: > (P) 1978 Charisma Records > (C) 2001 Rock Fever > RFM 014 > > Made under license from Ridgetop Music > This compilation (P) & (C) Rock Fever Music, > Baumstrabe 10, 21175 Hamburg, Germany > > It has the 8 tracks of the original release, > plus these two live tracks: > 9. Who's Gonna Win The War 5:54 > (Brock) > 10. Drug Cabinet Key 6:06 > (Brock/Calvert) > > I was actually a little irritated when I received > it, > since I *thought* I had scored a copy of the > ultra-rare > Virgin/Charisma disc. I just didn't read the fine > print when I bought it... :-P > > -- > Steve Swann | Speak to me in many voices, make > swann at cugc.org | them all sound like one > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Apr 20 06:30:37 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:30:37 +0100 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay In-Reply-To: Stephen Swann's message of Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:32:22 -0400 Message-ID: Stephen Swann writes: > This reminds me, I recently picked up a strange, > possibly bootleggy thing which is the Hawklords "25 > Years On" album, plus a couple of live tracks. It's > not a CD-R, it's a commercially pressed CD, with > copyright info that looks a little odd to me: > (P) 1978 Charisma Records > (C) 2001 Rock Fever > RFM 014 > > Made under license from Ridgetop Music > This compilation (P) & (C) Rock Fever Music, > Baumstrabe 10, 21175 Hamburg, Germany > > It has the 8 tracks of the original release, > plus these two live tracks: > 9. Who's Gonna Win The War 5:54 > (Brock) > 10. Drug Cabinet Key 6:06 > (Brock/Calvert) Any idea which tracks from the Codex these are? Is there a source I can find the Rock Fever stuff without bidding on Ebay? FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Apr 20 06:42:41 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:42:41 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: Seems Benedict once said that rock music is a vehicle of anti-religion. FoFP From iainferguson at AOL.COM Wed Apr 20 06:46:10 2005 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:46:10 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <200504201042.j3KAgf3n010963@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Seems he was in the Nazi youth also... So all looking good for a moderate , well balanced pontiff, who's open to the full facets of live on Earth. M Holmes wrote on 4/20/2005, 11:42 AM: > Seems Benedict once said that rock music is a vehicle of anti-religion. > > FoFP > From Chaosillumi at CHAOSILLUMI.F9.CO.UK Wed Apr 20 06:52:22 2005 From: Chaosillumi at CHAOSILLUMI.F9.CO.UK (Chaosillumination) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:52:22 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: Glad I learned to drive then... Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:42 AM Subject: New Pope don't rock > Seems Benedict once said that rock music is a vehicle of anti-religion. > > FoFP From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Wed Apr 20 07:15:56 2005 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (nick.lee2@virgin.net) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:15:56 +0000 Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: But I do believe Pope Benedict the Sixteenth will enter the lexicon of dope use. As in: "I can't afford a Henry can you do me a Pope instead?" Nick > ----Original Message---- > From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK > Date: Apr 20, 2005 10:42:41 AM > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subj: New Pope don't rock > > Seems Benedict once said that rock music is a vehicle of anti-religion. > > FoFP From swann at CUGC.ORG Wed Apr 20 07:46:42 2005 From: swann at CUGC.ORG (Stephen Swann) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 07:46:42 -0400 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay In-Reply-To: <200504201030.j3KAUb2I002590@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>; from fofp@HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK on Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 11:30:37AM +0100 Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 11:30:37AM +0100, M Holmes wrote: > > It has the 8 tracks of the original release, > > plus these two live tracks: > > 9. Who's Gonna Win The War 5:54 > > (Brock) > > 10. Drug Cabinet Key 6:06 > > (Brock/Calvert) > > Any idea which tracks from the Codex these are? Not yet, it just arrived the other day and I haven't really listened to anything but The Only Ones (just to verify that it was commercial quality sound as well, and not "ripped from vinyl" or what have you... > Is there a source I can find the Rock Fever stuff without bidding on > Ebay? Their website www.rock-fever.de (misprinted on the label as w.w.w.rock-fever.de) doesn't exist. http://rock-fever.de redirects to this non-existant web site. They have a contact address mail at rock-fever.de which may or may not work, I haven't attempted to contact it. -- Steve Swann | Speak to me in many voices, make swann at cugc.org | them all sound like one From blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM Wed Apr 20 08:09:17 2005 From: blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM (blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:09:17 -0400 Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: FoFP wrote: > Seems Benedict once said that rock music is a vehicle of anti-religion. I hope he mentions BOC. They could use more publicity. :-) Brian "I'm your vehicle darlin', and by now I'm sure you know [...] great God in Heaven you know I love you." -Ides of March From coral at APORT.RU Wed Apr 20 11:14:46 2005 From: coral at APORT.RU (Alisa) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:14:46 +0400 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay Message-ID: One question - how is the sound quality? Is it a copy from cd version or from vinyl? cheers, Alisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:30 PM Subject: Re: Hakwind prices on Ebay > Stephen Swann writes: > > This reminds me, I recently picked up a strange, > > possibly bootleggy thing which is the Hawklords "25 > > Years On" album, plus a couple of live tracks. It's > > not a CD-R, it's a commercially pressed CD, with > > copyright info that looks a little odd to me: > > (P) 1978 Charisma Records > > (C) 2001 Rock Fever > > RFM 014 > > > > Made under license from Ridgetop Music > > This compilation (P) & (C) Rock Fever Music, > > Baumstrabe 10, 21175 Hamburg, Germany > > > > It has the 8 tracks of the original release, > > plus these two live tracks: > > 9. Who's Gonna Win The War 5:54 > > (Brock) > > 10. Drug Cabinet Key 6:06 > > (Brock/Calvert) > > Any idea which tracks from the Codex these are? > > Is there a source I can find the Rock Fever stuff without bidding on > Ebay? > > FoFP > From iainferguson at AOL.COM Wed Apr 20 12:18:58 2005 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:18:58 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <1114011895.47135.11.camel@zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org> Message-ID: Oh I do agree Paul, it would have been extremely difficult to avoid being conscripted. At the end of the day, he's an irrelavance to me, Its a bloody big shame that he is relevant to to many people on this planet with such a negative, blinkered view of the world. I'd love for him to make me eat my words, but somehow I doubt the man has the sight to liberalise. Not from what he's said.. iain Paul Mather wrote on 4/20/2005, 4:44 PM: > To be fair, it was hard not to be in the Hitler Youth, because > membership became compulsory for youths some time during WWII. Also, > late in the war, every eligible male between the ages of 16 and 60 was > conscripted into the Volksturm (the German "Home Guard"), as a > last-ditch effort to stem the tide of defeat. > > Still, conscientious objectors did resist being drafted, and were > usually sent to concentration camps as a result. I guess Mr. Ratzinger > chose a path of least resistance... From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Wed Apr 20 14:21:54 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:21:54 -0400 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:30:37 +0100, M Holmes wrote: >Stephen Swann writes: >> This reminds me, I recently picked up a strange, >> possibly bootleggy thing which is the Hawklords "25 >> Years On" album, plus a couple of live tracks ... >> >> It has the 8 tracks of the original release, >> plus these two live tracks: >> 9. Who's Gonna Win The War 5:54 >> (Brock) >> 10. Drug Cabinet Key 6:06 >> (Brock/Calvert) > >Any idea which tracks from the Codex these are? I'd have to believe that "Drug Cabinet Key" is the same version as on the withdrawn Weird Tape and F&R vol.3. Which has never been released on CD, so if *that* track does not sound ripped-from-vinyl, then there's something fishy going on ... And it would make the most sense that "Who's Gonna Win The War" is version 1 in the Codex, and definitely not 1c (the Flicknife single edit, which is less than 5 minutes long). It could have easily been taken from the Flicknife F&R or Independent Daze CD's, or from the Weird CD's on Voiceprint. >Is there a source I can find the Rock Fever stuff without bidding on >Ebay? With most eBay auctions, isn't there a contact-the-seller feature? I'm sure that whoever is auctioning them has a reasonable stock. And for that matter, are there any German Hawkfans on the list near Hamburg? (I think Bernhard is the closest I know of, and he's not that close.) -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From atnr63 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Wed Apr 20 14:23:54 2005 From: atnr63 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (mark von bargen) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:23:54 +0100 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay In-Reply-To: <200504201030.j3KAUb2I002590@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: My brother is currently living in Hamburg. Any use him looking up the address that is quoted for Rock Fever? Mark -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of M Holmes Sent: 20 April 2005 11:31 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: Hakwind prices on Ebay Stephen Swann writes: > This reminds me, I recently picked up a strange, > possibly bootleggy thing which is the Hawklords "25 > Years On" album, plus a couple of live tracks. It's > not a CD-R, it's a commercially pressed CD, with > copyright info that looks a little odd to me: > (P) 1978 Charisma Records > (C) 2001 Rock Fever > RFM 014 > > Made under license from Ridgetop Music > This compilation (P) & (C) Rock Fever Music, > Baumstrabe 10, 21175 Hamburg, Germany > > It has the 8 tracks of the original release, > plus these two live tracks: > 9. Who's Gonna Win The War 5:54 > (Brock) > 10. Drug Cabinet Key 6:06 > (Brock/Calvert) Any idea which tracks from the Codex these are? Is there a source I can find the Rock Fever stuff without bidding on Ebay? FoFP From bernhard.pospiech at T-ONLINE.DE Wed Apr 20 15:32:26 2005 From: bernhard.pospiech at T-ONLINE.DE (bernhard.pospiech) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:32:26 +0200 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Doug >And for that matter, are there any German Hawkfans on the list near Hamburg? (I think Bernhard is the closest I know >of, and he's not that close.) Well, it is about 350 KM (= 220 Miles) from my hometown to Hamburg I really do not know who these bastards are Maybe Hamburg is just a fake-address ? These guys are selling bootlegs and therefore it is not very intelligent to offer the real address to the world Cheers Bernhard From JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM Wed Apr 20 21:06:16 2005 From: JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM (JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:06:16 EDT Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: In a message dated 4/20/2005 5:47:52 AM US Eastern Standard Time, iainferguson at AOL.COM writes: Seems he was in the Nazi youth also... So all looking good for a moderate , well balanced pontiff, who's open to the full facets of live on Earth. To paraphrase The Who : "Meet the new Pope; same as the old Pope!" Joe From bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 20 21:59:02 2005 From: bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM (gary shindler) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:59:02 -0700 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <1ee.3a1b459d.2f985688@aol.com> Message-ID: When are you going to find a religious leader that embraces rock and roll anyway? That is unless you listen to some of Jimmy Swaggart's records that are just like his cousin Jerry Lee Lewis'. --- JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 4/20/2005 5:47:52 AM US Eastern > Standard Time, > iainferguson at AOL.COM writes: > > Seems he was in the Nazi youth also... > > So all looking good for a moderate , well balanced > pontiff, who's open > to the full facets of live on Earth. > > > > To paraphrase The Who : > "Meet the new Pope; same as the old Pope!" > > Joe > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK Thu Apr 21 09:13:09 2005 From: maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK (Maxine Wesley) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:13:09 +0100 Subject: Off....New Pope don't rock Message-ID: From: Iain Ferguson >Seems he was in the Nazi youth also... >So all looking good for a moderate , well balanced pontiff, who's open >to the full facets of live on Earth. On the other hand he shows more diversity than those who havn't contemplated anything quite so radical? M Holmes wrote on 4/20/2005, 11:42 AM: >> Seems Benedict once said that rock music is a vehicle of anti-religion. Is Cliff Richard a catholic? regards Maxine From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Apr 21 09:19:10 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:19:10 +0100 Subject: Off....New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: Maxine Wesley's message of Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:13:09 +0100 Message-ID: Maxine Wesley writes: > Is Cliff Richard a catholic? Does the Pope shit in the woods? FoFP From gingoblin at EASYNET.CO.UK Thu Apr 21 09:47:58 2005 From: gingoblin at EASYNET.CO.UK (gingoblin at EASYNET.CO.UK) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:47:58 +0100 Subject: HW : Croydon In-Reply-To: <200504071533.j37FXXHd029898@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sitting here trying to work out what HW dates I'm seeing... can someone tell me, is the Croydon gig a seated affair or is there standing too? cheers, Dave From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Thu Apr 21 12:38:46 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:38:46 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Doug Pearson wrote: > On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:01:10 +0100, Michael Crook > wrote: > > >The live bonus tracks on the dodgy "new" Hawklords > >CDs on EBay are live versions of "Who's Gonna Win the > >War" and "Drug Cabinet Key" which is of course "Flying > >Doctor". There are loads of these on Ebay - very > >naughty!! > > Interesting (good) picks, since "Drug Cabinet Key" has never been released > on CD, nor has the single edit version of "Who's Gonna Win The War" > (Hawklords version on Flicknife, not the Hawkwind version on Bronze). > > I wonder if one can tell whether those two tracks were mastered from vinyl > (given the quality of Flicknife vinyl pressings, it would be *very* > difficult, if not impossible, to clean up such a track enough to make it > unrecognizably vinyl-sourced) ... or not (which would definitely be > interesting) ... There is, almost predictably, no mention one way or the other on the "only official source of Hawkwind information", Mission Control, or if there is it's not anywhere in the still maze-like structure where I could find it. I wonder if the line-up page still mentions Ron, I forgot to check.[1] But anyway. I have to say I'm tempted to nab one of these things if they ever come out somewhere other than Ebay. But by then perhaps the miracle deal will have come together, the back catalogue will be scheduled for rerelease and all will be right with the world. Right now I can well understand why someone who'd otherwise be prowling Ebay *anyway* for a second-hand original, that passes no money to the band this sale round, would grab one of these instead. Better quality than the relatively cheaper vinyl, bonus tracks... and of course most people won't expect this to be a bootleg anyway any more than the various Friends & Relations compilations on the ever-changing label which was Emporio when I got mine and seemed to be licensing the material from Charly somehow. Can we be sure in fact that these disks aren't at least that legitimate, in as much as someone may have been able to license the rights from someone who has a dubious claim to own them that no-one's yet challenged? This is why some responses from the band about such things would sometimes be useful. I'm sure there's lots of people here who would prefer not to buy these things if they're not actually contributing to the band and there's a version that will in the works; likewise, if they are straight bootlegs we would probably all avoid them. But it's possible that they could be somewhere in the legal mess in the middle in which case I think it's fair enough that the fans get them and the band recover their earnings from "Rock Fever" whoever they may be. Or is that too mercenary? Yours, Jon ObCD: University of Errors - _Jet-Propelled Photographs_ [1] Hallelujah, my faith is rewarded: go to the oldest of the photo- galleries, click on the link back to Master Gallery and you don't actually go to the current Master Gallery page, but the old one, which was of course for no intuitive reason headed with the "Crew Data" section, and it's still there: direct link http://www.hawkwind.com/pf.htm No wonder the update on hawkwind.com is taking so long. Parts of it are still in 1998. Anyway. -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From cea at CARLAZ.COM Thu Apr 21 12:57:05 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:57:05 +0100 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 21/04/2005 17:38, Jon Jarrett wrote: > But by then perhaps the > miracle deal will have come together, the back catalogue will be scheduled > for rerelease and all will be right with the world. Also, monkeys will depart my nether regions for the skies on silver machines ;) > This is why some responses from the band about such things would > sometimes be useful. I'm sure there's lots of people here who would prefer > not to buy these things if they're not actually contributing to the band > and there's a version that will in the works; likewise, if they are > straight bootlegs we would probably all avoid them. But it's possible that > they could be somewhere in the legal mess in the middle in which case I > think it's fair enough that the fans get them and the band recover their > earnings from "Rock Fever" whoever they may be. Or is that too > mercenary? Personally, if it were my band, I would say: "Hell, why pay money for stuff that is not only illegit but doesn't even support the band, past or present. Given the legal complications the gods alone know whether this will get sorted properly, so why not just burn free copies for your friends." That's what I would say, if it were my band. Which it isn't :) Honestly, it'd be nice to see the people who worked on soemthing get paid for their work, and it'd be nice to see people able to buy things they want in a legit way. But as is well known, if people can't buy things properly, they'll sure as hell find a way to buy them improperly! IMO, the best that one could do in the meantime is undercut the bootleggers with free stuff. IMO. Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson mailto:cea at carlaz.com http://www.carlaz.com/ From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Thu Apr 21 13:17:14 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:17:14 -0400 Subject: more dodgy CD's? In-Reply-To: <4267DB61.5070104@carlaz.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 17:57 +0100, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote: > Personally, if it were my band, I would say: "Hell, why pay money for > stuff that is not only illegit but doesn't even support the band, past > or present. Given the legal complications the gods alone know whether > this will get sorted properly, so why not just burn free copies for your > friends." That's what I would say, if it were my band. Which it isn't :) > IMO, the best that one could do in the meantime is undercut the > bootleggers with free stuff. IMO. That's what neo-quark were doing and the band's response was an enigmatic "stop doing that." So I guess we know what Hawkwind's position is on this. Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Thu Apr 21 13:36:38 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:36:38 -0400 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <426680F2.9050604@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2005-04-20 at 17:18 +0100, Iain Ferguson wrote: > Oh I do agree Paul, it would have been extremely difficult to avoid > being conscripted. > > At the end of the day, he's an irrelavance to me, Its a bloody big shame > that he is relevant to to many people on this planet with such a > negative, blinkered view of the world. > > I'd love for him to make me eat my words, but somehow I doubt the man > has the sight to liberalise. Not from what he's said.. It's a crying shame that large numbers of people will die in Africa and Latin America because Ratzinger will continue (and perhaps intensify) Pope John Paul II's hard line dogma against condom use, thus exacerbating the spread of HIV. It is indeed a bloody big shame. :-( I just read yesterday on the Grauniad that the US (at the urging of Bush) has blocked the addition of certain abortion pills from the UN list of "essential medicines." It's estimated that this will sentence approximately 68,000 women in poor countries to die every year from complications of having surgical abortions in poor operating conditions or using unsafe practices. That must be Bush's way of promoting the "culture of life" he keeps going on about. Sounds like he and Ratzinger will get along famously... Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Apr 21 13:44:51 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:44:51 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: Paul Mather's message of Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:36:38 -0400 Message-ID: Paul Mather writes: > I just read yesterday on the Grauniad that the US (at the urging of > Bush) has blocked the addition of certain abortion pills from the UN > list of "essential medicines." It's estimated that this will sentence > approximately 68,000 women in poor countries to die every year from > complications of having surgical abortions in poor operating conditions > or using unsafe practices. Oh come on. It won't sentence anyone to anything. They could respond by just not having an abortion. Unless "sentence" is used in the context of "We made car protection a priority, thus sentencing erstwhile car thieves to the more dangerous pursuit of robbery". There are arguments both pro and anti abortion. The above isn't one of them. FoFP From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Thu Apr 21 14:48:40 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:48:40 -0400 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <200504211744.j3LHipd1007613@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 18:44 +0100, M Holmes wrote: > Paul Mather writes: > > > I just read yesterday on the Grauniad that the US (at the urging of > > Bush) has blocked the addition of certain abortion pills from the UN > > list of "essential medicines." It's estimated that this will sentence > > approximately 68,000 women in poor countries to die every year from > > complications of having surgical abortions in poor operating conditions > > or using unsafe practices. > > Oh come on. It won't sentence anyone to anything. They could respond by > just not having an abortion. Unless "sentence" is used in the context of > "We made car protection a priority, thus sentencing erstwhile car > thieves to the more dangerous pursuit of robbery". > > There are arguments both pro and anti abortion. The above isn't one of > them. First of all, my apologies. I didn't realise that message was going to the list; I thought it was going just to Iain Ferguson. My original message had been a private response to him, and I didn't realise until it was too late that his response to that one had been on-list and my reply was going there. Secondly, stop talking such utter rubbish, Mike. It gets tiresome. I know you like to play dress-up iconoclast and be deliberately contentious, but this is wearing a bit thin. I'm surprised you didn't trot out the old line of "well, if they hadn't got knocked up in the first place..." Pretty easy for a bloke to come out with "they could respond by just not having an abortion." If only all of our problems could have such neat, easy solutions. The fact is that denying a safer medical treatment will knowingly put patients using the more dangerous one at greater risk (possibly unbeknownst to the patient). If you don't like the word "sentence," then substitute whatever you like in the statement "Restricting or prohibiting the use of abortion pills will _____ approximately 68,000 women in poor countries to die unnecessarily every year." Then, you will be happy. (Some suggested words to get you started: "oblige," "cause," "facilitate," etc. Make up some of your own.) I'm not going to get into one of your debates on BOC-L. Before I know it, you'll be saying something along the lines of "if people in poor countries really wanted abortions and abortion pills, it'd be reflected in their spending patterns, etc." boilerplate that often results. Been there, done that. :-) Looking back at the genesis of this entire thread, I suddenly feel the victim of an elaborate troll. Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 21 14:59:09 2005 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:59:09 -0400 Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:44:51 +0100, M Holmes wrote: >Paul Mather writes: > >> I just read yesterday on the Grauniad that the US (at the urging of >> Bush) has blocked the addition of certain abortion pills from the UN >> list of "essential medicines." It's estimated that this will sentence >> approximately 68,000 women in poor countries to die every year from >> complications of having surgical abortions in poor operating conditions >> or using unsafe practices. > >Oh come on. It won't sentence anyone to anything. They could respond by >just not having an abortion. Yes, it's so simple, isn't it? In fact one of the major uses of the "abortion pill" in southern Africa (and probably other places as well, I just know more about SA) is to induce termination of pregnancy in girls who have become pregnant as a result of rape, something which is horrfiyingly common in many areas. The withdrawal of this option will indeed be sentencing these girls to either a) dodgy "bush medicine" surgery as Paul outlined, or b) becoming the mother of a "rape baby". Quite a choice. Nick From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Thu Apr 21 15:21:00 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:21:00 +0100 Subject: HW: Litmus Gig In-Reply-To: <005101c5426a$106a5da0$6cd1fea9@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, Colin J Allen wrote: > Just a reminder that Litmus are playing at the Standard Music Venue in > Walthamstow tomorrow (Sunday) night as support to the David Cross band, who > are using the gig as a warm-up before embarking on a Japanese tour. Litmus > are due on stage about 20:00. And I was there, not at my sharpest either after a week of insufficient sleep and various griefs, but I had a thoroughly good time. Some hastily-typed up thoughts: After getting some food, I still had twenty minutes or so to wait for the doors to open, this eventually happening fifteen minutes or so after Litmus's advertised start time. Hmph. Eventually however, they opened up and in I went to find Litmus, setting up. They were as it turned out bloody ace, "making even the shattered and moody me dance as best I could (which was really not very well, as in I kept nearly falling over), but the set was quite short. I had a long chat with Martin afterwards in which I only very narrowly escaped telling him far more about me than he probably wants to know, and learnt a lot of things I didn't believe about Electric Wizard. I also bought a Litmus t-shirt so that's OK. Simon seems to have added a load of extra tricks to his guitar repertoire. Some reminded me lots of Ed Wynne, some vaguely of Dave Brock, but many seemed original. Impressive and noisy stuff. He gets better all the time. He and Martin were a bit ragged of voice I thought, or perhaps the mix was unkind to them; Martin thought it was probably actually being kind as he wasn't on form. But he also thought that it wasn't very tight, but that what they might have lacked in tightness they made up in brutality; I really only noticed the upside of that particular exchange if so, good to see them so full-on after so long being unable to make the gigs. Lots of applause: Martin saying `Bloody hell, anyone'd think you came to see us' getting even more as I'm sure he expected. "They were supporting the David Cross Band, which on due inspection appears to be a young band gathered around the man who played violin on King Crimson's _Larks Tongues in Aspic_. He himself was very good, if somewhat damaged in my estimation by the same thing that every rock violinist except Simon House is, to wit that he wasn't Simon House, but you could usually hardly hear him when the band was going, and they had a fat widdly guitarist who thought too much of himself, a drummer who was a fabulous timekeeper, in as much as he could keep times I couldn't count and still make it sound like he was really playing uninteresting 4:4 (I couldn't figure out how he did this) and a bass-player who was very good but again, just not on fire. Also a mostly redundant keyboardist and a singer whose bottom range was shaky but who was otherwise very good, Unfortunately the words of their own stuff were lousy, and by far the best thing they did, I think not just because I knew it, was a very long and feeling-shot dual cover of Crimson's `Exiles' and `Talking Drum'. I felt rather hypocritical, because I'd assumed they'd be little more than a tribute act and here they were doing for the most part their own new stuff, but I was rather wishing they wouldn't. In `Talking Drum' the drummer managed to break his snare, and they did a three-piece song while he wandered around back-stage plainly having a fag instead of fixing the one that Litmus's drummer went and got out of the van for him. As they finished that I wandered away, wishing that my bed wasn't still an hour plus's journey away." Litmus set-list was: Intro [somewhere between `Erpriff' and `Stonehenge Decoded' I thought] Infinity Drive Dreams of Space Destroy the Mothership Tempest [I think; I never really got to grips with this number but I'm sure it had developed some new bits since last I saw it, new vocal sections in the break mainly--I'm still not sure this is as successful as some other new or indeed some old stuff] Under the Sign * Twinstar Yours, Jonathan -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU Thu Apr 21 15:44:54 2005 From: dkuznick at ALUMNI.BRANDEIS.EDU (David Kuznick) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:44:54 -0400 Subject: HW: Litmus Gig In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quoting Jon Jarrett : > "They were supporting the David Cross Band, which on due > inspection appears to be a young band gathered around the man who played > violin on King Crimson's _Larks Tongues in Aspic_. He himself was very > good, if somewhat damaged in my estimation by the same thing that every > rock violinist except Simon House is, to wit that he wasn't Simon House, > but you could usually hardly hear him when the band was going, Ironically enough, that's pretty much why he and King Crimson parted ways in the first place; he was fighting to be heard over the other guys, who were getting heavier and heavier and louder and louder, especially John Wetton's bass. Robert Fripp details this in the booklet that accompanies the Great Deceiver boxset and I think there's also info in The Nightwatch booklet, IIRC. -- David Kuznick dkuznickATalumni.brandeis.edu "You should have seen the curse that flew right by you Page of concrete, stained walks crutch in hobbled sway Auto-da-f?, a capillary hint of red. Only this manupod crescent in shape has escaped" Televators - THE MARS VOLTA From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 21 15:58:48 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:58:48 -0400 Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:42:41 +0100, M Holmes wrote: >Seems Benedict once said that rock music is a vehicle of anti-religion. Here's his quote about rock music: "... the expression of elemental passions which, in the big musical festivals, have taken on a cultural character, that is to say, [the character] of a counter-cult, opposed to Christian worship" see: http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,12272,1463902,00.html I'm just disappointed that after two "John Paul"s, he isn't taking the name "George Ringo I" ... -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From atnr63 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Thu Apr 21 16:29:15 2005 From: atnr63 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (mark von bargen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:29:15 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <1114104998.43365.38.camel@zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org> Message-ID: Paul Mather wrote: It's a crying shame that large numbers of people will die in Africa and Latin America because Ratzinger will continue (and perhaps intensify)Pope John Paul II's hard line dogma against condom use, thus exacerbating the spread of HIV. It is indeed a bloody big shame. :-( Agreed, the Catholic church needs to change its stance on condom usage quickly I just read yesterday on the Grauniad that the US (at the urging of Bush) has blocked the addition of certain abortion pills from the UN list of "essential medicines." It's estimated that this will sentence approximately 68,000 women in poor countries to die every year from complications of having surgical abortions in poor operating conditions or using unsafe practices. That must be Bush's way of promoting the "culture of life" he keeps going on about. Sounds like he and Ratzinger will get along famously... Shocking. Perhaps we really need to understand why so many abortions are being carried out around the world. Maybe the Catholic church changing its stance on condoms may have a positive effect - perhaps Benedict XVI and co need to be educated. So, we can kill a kid with a pill these days - so cool, NOT. Mark From m.j.crook at TALK21.COM Thu Apr 21 17:22:06 2005 From: m.j.crook at TALK21.COM (Michael Crook) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:22:06 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: Interesting choice of favourite book this new pope has - http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=631614 Mick Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 21 17:42:17 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:42:17 -0400 Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:22:06 +0100, Michael Crook wrote: >Interesting choice of favourite book this new pope has > >http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=631614 Hey! That's on-topic! What's up with that? (Maybe he could do a guest recitation of the German part onstage with Hawkwind.) -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From Stewartbas at AOL.COM Thu Apr 21 18:45:52 2005 From: Stewartbas at AOL.COM (Stewartbas at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:45:52 EDT Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: In a message dated 4/21/2005 5:43:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jasret at MINDSPRING.COM writes: > < < > 'G' for Germany! From erics at TELEPRES.COM Thu Apr 21 20:04:20 2005 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:04:20 -0400 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <200504201042.j3KAgf3n010963@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 11:42:41AM +0100, M Holmes wrote: > Seems Benedict once said that rock music is a vehicle of anti-religion. Well he's right, isn't he? The only problem is, he thinks that's a *bad* thing. -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. eric_97 at pobox.com | | / Rock'n'roll music has taken his soul Possesses his mind, your baby it stole - RC From erics at TELEPRES.COM Thu Apr 21 20:13:01 2005 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:13:01 -0400 Subject: Off....New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <200504211319.j3LDJAlH010009@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 02:19:10PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: > Does the Pope shit in the woods? The old one must have done, being the outdoorsman he was in his early life. Maybe not as Pope though :-) -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. eric_97 at pobox.com | | / The animal that coils in a circle is the serpent; that's why so many cults and myths of the serpent exist, because it's hard to represent the return of the sun by the coiling of a hippopotamus. - Umberto Eco, "Foucault's Pendulum" From JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM Thu Apr 21 22:29:44 2005 From: JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM (JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:29:44 EDT Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: In a message dated 4/20/2005 8:59:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time, bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM writes: When are you going to find a religious leader that embraces rock and roll anyway? Pope Lemmy I?? I'd vote for him! Joe From bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 21 22:35:33 2005 From: bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM (gary shindler) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:35:33 -0700 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <20050421212206.45773.qmail@web86210.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sent that to my Catholic, Hawkwind-hating wife. Maybe she'll see the light. Of course Calvert's infidelities won't help. --- Michael Crook wrote: > Interesting choice of favourite book this new pope > has > - > > > http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=631614 > > Mick > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Stewartbas at AOL.COM Thu Apr 21 22:42:02 2005 From: Stewartbas at AOL.COM (Stewartbas at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:42:02 EDT Subject: New Pope don't rock Message-ID: In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:35:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bewlay68 at YAHOO.COM writes: > < Message-ID: Hi, > Paul Mather wrote on 4/20/2005, 4:44 PM: > >> To be fair, it was hard not to be in the Hitler Youth, because >> membership became compulsory for youths some time during WWII. Also, >> late in the war, every eligible male between the ages of 16 and 60 was >> conscripted into the Volksturm (the German "Home Guard"), as a >> last-ditch effort to stem the tide of defeat. >> >> Still, conscientious objectors did resist being drafted, and were >> usually sent to concentration camps as a result. I guess Mr. >> Ratzinger >> chose a path of least resistance... He didn't chose "the path of least resistance". Sometimes during the last months of the war, when he was serving as a "Flak-Helfer" he deserted. He was just lucky to get caught by some disillusioned Wehrmacht-soldiers (who just let him go!) instead of some SS guys, who would, without a doubt, had him shot or hanged at once. That of course doesn't suit the picture the British yellow press wants to create in their typical psychotic "always mention the war"-tick. On Apr 20, 2005, at 18:18 Uhr, Iain Ferguson wrote: > I'd love for him to make me eat my words, but somehow I doubt the man > has the sight to liberalise. Not from what he's said. An acquaintance of mine went to the same priest seminar as Mr. Ratzinger. He once told me that some of the writings by R. from before his time as a member of the curia isn't exactly the ultra-conservative stuff you would expect, but that there's a lot of liberalism in it. He never told any details though... Of course one also has to consider the position Ratzinger held for the last twenty years. He was Prefect of the Congregation of Faith, more or less the modern-day Grand Inquisitor. You _have_ (or seem...) to be very conservative for that position, it's practically nr.1 in the job description. But regardless if someone else had become pope (Martini or some of the Latin-American cardinals) I don't think that anyone would have "legalised" the use of condoms or the pill, at least not at once. (IMO the ban on contraceptives is one of the great idiocies of the Catholic Church, together with priest-celibacy and the exclusion of women to act as priests) just my 0.02? D+R np: Philip Glass, "Akhnaten" From denis at PTI-INC.DE Fri Apr 22 07:19:45 2005 From: denis at PTI-INC.DE (Denis Regenbrecht) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:19:45 +0200 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <20050421015902.20742.qmail@web53910.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Apr 21, 2005, at 03:59 Uhr, gary shindler wrote: > When are you going to find a religious leader that > embraces rock and roll anyway? The "abbot primas" (i.e. chief abbot of the whole order) of the Benedictine Order plays e-guitar in a rock band. (c)IAO D+R From swann at CUGC.ORG Fri Apr 22 09:12:48 2005 From: swann at CUGC.ORG (Stephen Swann) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:12:48 -0400 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay In-Reply-To: <000e01c545bb$b04c04a0$2efdfea9@ghostwheel3>; from coral@APORT.RU on Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 07:14:46PM +0400 Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 07:14:46PM +0400, Alisa wrote: > One question - how is the sound quality? Is it a copy from cd version or > from vinyl? > > cheers, > Alisa Sound quality is very good to excellent on the main album. It sounds like a professionally mastered CD. On the bonus tracks, the sound quality is "pretty good"; heck, better than many of the more commonly available Hawkwind albums. Couldn't swear that they weren't ripped from vinyl, because the occasional distortion could be from a badly aligned needle or it could be an artifact of the original cheapo recording. I haven't gone through it with headphones, but I didn't notice any telltale needle hiss or dusk clicks. -- Steve Swann | Speak to me in many voices, make swann at cugc.org | them all sound like one > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "M Holmes" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:30 PM > Subject: Re: Hakwind prices on Ebay > > > > Stephen Swann writes: > > > This reminds me, I recently picked up a strange, > > > possibly bootleggy thing which is the Hawklords "25 > > > Years On" album, plus a couple of live tracks. It's > > > not a CD-R, it's a commercially pressed CD, with > > > copyright info that looks a little odd to me: > > > (P) 1978 Charisma Records > > > (C) 2001 Rock Fever > > > RFM 014 > > > > > > Made under license from Ridgetop Music > > > This compilation (P) & (C) Rock Fever Music, > > > Baumstrabe 10, 21175 Hamburg, Germany > > > > > > It has the 8 tracks of the original release, > > > plus these two live tracks: > > > 9. Who's Gonna Win The War 5:54 > > > (Brock) > > > 10. Drug Cabinet Key 6:06 > > > (Brock/Calvert) > > > > Any idea which tracks from the Codex these are? > > > > Is there a source I can find the Rock Fever stuff without bidding on > > Ebay? > > > > FoFP > > From swann at CUGC.ORG Fri Apr 22 09:23:46 2005 From: swann at CUGC.ORG (Stephen Swann) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:23:46 -0400 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay In-Reply-To: <20050422091248.A23217@cugc.org>; from swann@CUGC.ORG on Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 09:12:48AM -0400 Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 09:12:48AM -0400, Stephen Swann wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 07:14:46PM +0400, Alisa wrote: > > One question - how is the sound quality? Is it a copy from cd version or > > from vinyl? > > > > cheers, > > Alisa > > Sound quality is very good to excellent on the main > album. It sounds like a professionally mastered CD. > > On the bonus tracks, the sound quality is "pretty > good"; heck, better than many of the more commonly > available Hawkwind albums. Couldn't swear that they > weren't ripped from vinyl, because the occasional > distortion could be from a badly aligned needle or it > could be an artifact of the original cheapo recording. > I haven't gone through it with headphones, but I didn't > notice any telltale needle hiss or dusk clicks. And just to clarify yet further, when I talk about distortion and cheapo recording, it's really not that bad, and I'm really only referring to Drug Cabinet Key (which is pretty cool song, too - reminds me vaguely of the driving, relentless rythm of Valium 10). Who's Gonna Win the War doesn't quite match Palace Springs or The Business Trip for clarity, but it's pretty damn good. Overall, I'm really getting over my disappointment with not getting a "real" Charisma copy of Hawklords... :) -- Steve Swann | Speak to me in many voices, make swann at cugc.org | them all sound like one From cea at CARLAZ.COM Fri Apr 22 09:30:33 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:30:33 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <5f4d50bd8518b7838f9033693bd6fb2b@pti-inc.de> Message-ID: On 22/04/2005 12:19, Denis Regenbrecht wrote: > The "abbot primas" (i.e. chief abbot of the whole order) of the > Benedictine Order plays e-guitar in a rock band. Far out! Do they have MP3s online? :) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson mailto:cea at carlaz.com http://www.carlaz.com/ From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Apr 22 10:56:24 2005 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:56:24 -0400 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: <1e20aee0eb4701ef9bb4d73977083bb7@pti-inc.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 2005-04-22 at 13:08 +0200, Denis Regenbrecht wrote: > >> Still, conscientious objectors did resist being drafted, and were > >> usually sent to concentration camps as a result. I guess Mr. > >> Ratzinger > >> chose a path of least resistance... > > He didn't chose "the path of least resistance". Sometimes during the > last months of the war, when he was serving as a "Flak-Helfer" he > deserted. He was just lucky to get caught by some disillusioned > Wehrmacht-soldiers (who just let him go!) instead of some SS guys, who > would, without a doubt, had him shot or hanged at once. > That of course doesn't suit the picture the British yellow press wants > to create in their typical psychotic "always mention the war"-tick. FWIW, the "path of least resistance" was actually from a German contemporary of Ratzinger who grew up in the same town, contrasting it with the fate of someone who *did* elect to act as a conscientious objector. Ratzinger just behaved as an average person would. But, as someone pointed out in another article, the Pope is not supposed to be "an average person." :-) Just in case the tone of my original message has been obfuscated, I'll make it clearer: I didn't see anything "sinister" in Ratzinger having joined the Hitler Youth when he did (the implication seeming to be "Hitler Youth member = Nazi supporter"). But, by the same token, I don't think he acted out of true conscience when there were others that did, even though by his own admission he felt opposed to the Nazi regime at the time. (His anti-aircraft battery was attached to a BMW factory whose workforce included slave labour from Dachau, and he was later sent to the Austro-Hungarian border region where he saw Jews deported to death camps.) Germans did resist the Nazi regime; Ratzinger chose not to because he felt to do so would be "futile." He made a different choice. Perhaps the hard-line dogmatic approach now attributed to him crystallised after WWII, and that's when his own moral compass became strongly aligned. I've heard that the events of the late 60s were a major influence. > just my 0.02? Mine, too. Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Don't mention the war!" --- Basil Fawlty From ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 22 13:28:43 2005 From: ian at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:28:43 +0100 Subject: Arthur Brown Biography Message-ID: No, not one of mine this time! (Turns attention away from space rock to other music forms right now!), but my great friends at SAF Publishing have a biography of Arthur Brown, written by journalist Polly Marshall, about to arrive. Pre-order discount from the publishers (www.safpublishing.com) is ?3.00 off the RRP (order direct and tell them 'em I sent you!). I know Arthur has a lot of fans round these lists and being SAF it'll be a really well put together book. Here's the spiel: "I don't remember the Floyd as vividly as I remember Arthur Brown, 'cos I mean Arthur Brown, at that time, used to just stand there and insult the members of the audience in much the same way as people like Johnny Rotten." John Peel "We saw Arthur Brown and his Crazy World and the whole thing was just an eye-opener to me. He used to sing 'I am the God of hellfire' and then he'd set fire to his fuckin' head. That told me a lot. I knew where I was heading from then on." George Clinton In 1968, wearing a flaming helmet and sacrilegious robes, Arthur Brown hit the number-one slot worldwide with his hit single "Fire." The English singer has rained a volcano of influence on pop culture ever since. The original shocker has influenced everyone from Jimi Hendrix to Marilyn Manson, stopping off at Prodigy, Peter Gabriel and Alice Cooper en route. Polly Marshall has produced an in-depth biography that probes every facet of Arthur Brown's complex personality. What emerges is not only a portrait of a counter culture icon and sixties pop star, but also spiritualist, free thinker, painter and decorator, as well as notorious outlaw arrested for firearms offences and public nakedness. Arthur Brown is one of England's true eccentrics. ? Polly Marshall and Arthur Brown will be undertaking a major publicity tour to coincide with the book's publication including national TV, press and radio. ISBN: 0-946719-77-2 Publication date: June 2005 A Hardback original 50 B&W illustrations and photographs 156 x 234mm, 256 pp UK ?18.99 US $30.00 From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Fri Apr 22 13:43:11 2005 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:43:11 -0400 Subject: Hakwind prices on Ebay Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:23:46 -0400, Stephen Swann wrote: >And just to clarify yet further, when I talk about >distortion and cheapo recording, it's really not that >bad, and I'm really only referring to Drug Cabinet Key >(which is pretty cool song, too - reminds me vaguely of >the driving, relentless rythm of Valium 10). But doesn't it remind you a bit more of "Flying Doctor"? ;^) Yes, the sound quality of the version on F&R vol.3 is pretty lo-fi to begin with, so even if this track came from the original source tape, I'd expect it to be a bit muffled & distorted. -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 22 14:08:07 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:08:07 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: Paul Mather's message of Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:48:40 -0400 Message-ID: Paul Mather writes: > On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 18:44 +0100, M Holmes wrote: > > Paul Mather writes: > > > > > I just read yesterday on the Grauniad that the US (at the urging of > > > Bush) has blocked the addition of certain abortion pills from the UN > > > list of "essential medicines." It's estimated that this will sentence > > > approximately 68,000 women in poor countries to die every year from > > > complications of having surgical abortions in poor operating conditions > > > or using unsafe practices. > > > > Oh come on. It won't sentence anyone to anything. They could respond by > > just not having an abortion. Unless "sentence" is used in the context of > > "We made car protection a priority, thus sentencing erstwhile car > > thieves to the more dangerous pursuit of robbery". > > > > There are arguments both pro and anti abortion. The above isn't one of > > them. [stuff bordering on insult elided...] > The fact is that denying a safer medical treatment will knowingly put > patients using the more dangerous one at greater risk Nobody is denying the treatment. What's been proposed is simply that it isn't provided on the taxpayer's dime. Since many taxpayers have great ethical objections (I'm not particularly one of them) to abortion, I think that's entirely reasonable. > I'm not going to get into one of your debates on BOC-L. Fairy Nuff. Let's drop it then. > Looking back at the genesis of this entire thread, I suddenly feel the > victim of an elaborate troll. Not by me. I just said that the Pope don't rock. The last thing I'd have brought into it is abortion. I don't like either side of that argument. FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 22 14:13:38 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:13:38 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: Nick Medford's message of Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:59:09 -0400 Message-ID: Nick Medford writes: > On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:44:51 +0100, M Holmes wrote: > > >Paul Mather writes: > > > >> I just read yesterday on the Grauniad that the US (at the urging of > >> Bush) has blocked the addition of certain abortion pills from the UN > >> list of "essential medicines." It's estimated that this will sentence > >> approximately 68,000 women in poor countries to die every year from > >> complications of having surgical abortions in poor operating conditions > >> or using unsafe practices. > > > >Oh come on. It won't sentence anyone to anything. They could respond by > >just not having an abortion. > > Yes, it's so simple, isn't it? The abortion debate? Nope, it's horrendously complicated, which is why I don't think dumb logic like: "X won't pay for Y's abortion pill" implies "X wants to force Y to have a backstreet abortion" are a useful contribution either to that debate, or a list about rock music. Call me fussy, but sometimes I can't let dumb logic pass without letting off a shot. > In fact one of the major uses of the "abortion pill" in southern Africa (and > probably other places as well, I just know more about SA) is to induce > termination of pregnancy in girls who have become pregnant as a result of > rape Which is IMHO a Good Thing, but a lot of people do think that abortion is a Bad Thing and I see no good reason to force them to pay for abortions. > something which is horrfiyingly common in many areas. The withdrawal > of this option will indeed be sentencing these girls to either a) dodgy > "bush medicine" surgery as Paul outlined, or b) becoming the mother of a > "rape baby". Quite a choice. It's a horrible world indeed, but consider whether it would be improved by forcing people to pay for something they abhor. FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 22 14:20:48 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:20:48 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: mark von bargen's message of Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:29:15 +0100 Message-ID: mark von bargen writes: > Maybe the Catholic church changing its > stance on condoms may have a positive effect That'd be great, but under Ratzinger, I suspect it would also be a genuine miracle. FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 22 14:22:29 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:22:29 +0100 Subject: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: Michael Crook's message of Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:22:06 +0100 Message-ID: Michael Crook writes: > Interesting choice of favourite book this new pope has [Steppenwolf] Hey, let's send him a copy of the song... FoFP From capcloud at HAWKLORD.COM Sat Apr 23 13:43:30 2005 From: capcloud at HAWKLORD.COM (Captain Cloud) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:43:30 -0400 Subject: new releases from The Spacious Mind Message-ID: Just received an email from The Spacious Mind about the following new releases, available now: A new studio cd from Swedens finest. "Rotv?lta" is 55.59 minutes with some of the best stuff ever from Space Your Face Studios. Order it from us or from any of our friends: clearspot, ace of discs, freak emporium, among others, should have it available next week or so. from us: 140 SEK, paypal payment: henrik at countrymanrecords.com And also the two first releases in our cdr series is here to be ordered: CCDR001 - The Spacious Mind, Live 030228, Skellefte? CCDR002 - R?d Kjetil And The Loving Eye Of God, Title Unknown Each release is limited to 50 copies, numbered and in a nice paper packing. Price: 80 SEK. And yes, the website will be updated soon. The web site for The Spacious Mind is at http://www.countrymanrecords.com Note that R?d Kjetil is not part of TSM, rather this is a different group (no TSM members) on the private label that TSM runs. And, this release is not the official release that came out just a few months ago, but rather a new release by R?d Kjetil and co. Note also that my Paypal account is not set up for Swedish Kronors, so I used http://www.xe.com to convert the SEK amount into USD and transferred that amount (rounded up) as my payment. Cheers, Captain Cloud capcloud at hawklord.com From chrisr at TIAC.NET Sat Apr 23 15:22:27 2005 From: chrisr at TIAC.NET (Chris Raymond) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:22:27 -0400 Subject: Off: new releases from The Spacious Mind In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Captain!! I will get them all as soon as the funds I just transferred into the paypal account clear. If Ace of Discs does not have them next week, I will order direct. Hopefully the http://www.countrymanrecords.com will be updated by then. This will help ease the pain while waiting for Take Me To Your Leader. Chris R. -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Captain Cloud Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:44 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: new releases from The Spacious Mind Just received an email from The Spacious Mind about the following new releases, available now: A new studio cd from Swedens finest. "Rotv?lta" is 55.59 minutes with some of the best stuff ever from Space Your Face Studios. Order it from us or from any of our friends: clearspot, ace of discs, freak emporium, among others, should have it available next week or so. from us: 140 SEK, paypal payment: henrik at countrymanrecords.com And also the two first releases in our cdr series is here to be ordered: CCDR001 - The Spacious Mind, Live 030228, Skellefte? CCDR002 - R?d Kjetil And The Loving Eye Of God, Title Unknown Each release is limited to 50 copies, numbered and in a nice paper packing. Price: 80 SEK. And yes, the website will be updated soon. The web site for The Spacious Mind is at http://www.countrymanrecords.com Note that R?d Kjetil is not part of TSM, rather this is a different group (no TSM members) on the private label that TSM runs. And, this release is not the official release that came out just a few months ago, but rather a new release by R?d Kjetil and co. Note also that my Paypal account is not set up for Swedish Kronors, so I used http://www.xe.com to convert the SEK amount into USD and transferred that amount (rounded up) as my payment. Cheers, Captain Cloud capcloud at hawklord.com From jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM Sat Apr 23 15:41:02 2005 From: jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM (Jerry Kranitz) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:41:02 -0400 Subject: OFF: Aural Innovations Radio: New Space Rock, Alchemical Radio, and Drool Trough shows Message-ID: http://Aural-Innovations.com April 23, 2005: NEW RADIO SHOWS We've just uploaded new shows from Aural Innovations Space Rock Radio (show #125), Drool Trough (show #29), and Alchemical Radio (show #85). You can go directly to the Radio shows page at: http://aural-innovations.com/radio/radio.html MAIL ORDER NEWS: The new store is completed and I?ll unveil it once the first batch of new stock arrives. I?ve got the entire God Damn I?m A Countryman label catalog coming, including their just released new Spacious Mind CD, several titles from the Black Widow label, Stone Premonitions, CD?s from THTX, Alien Dream and more. I?m going to do this in waves so I don?t get hit all at once, but be assured I?ll have quite a bit more than in the past. And as of now I accept credit cards so you can pay for your orders with VISA or MASTERCARD. Aural Innovations Space Rock Radio (show #125) Floorian ? ?Descend? (from What The Buzzing) Farflung ? ?These Clouds Are Solid? (from Hall of Mirrors) Abunai! ? ?Our Wayward Fuel? (from Hall of Mirrors) Earthling Society - "Black Witch" (from Albion) Weltraumstaunen ? ?Black Dove Part II? (from Weltraumwelt) Shiver ? ?Interstellar Vision? (from San Francisco?s Shiver) Michael J. Bowman ? ?Jet Black Joy Stick? (from Joy Rocket Terminal) Vocokesh ? ?Suddenly A Bright Light? (from Upon Further Examination) Depressive Art ? ?Psychedelic Ghostride? (from The Ghostride Experience) Mandragora ? ?Around The World (Live)? (from Earthdance) The Cydonia Region ? ?Imagination Transmission #1? (from Space Aged) Comets On Fire ? ?The Bee and the Cracking Egg? (from Blue Cathedral) Zolar X ? ?The Horizon Suite: Overture On Air/Tomorrow?s Sunrise/Inside The Outside/Sound? (from Timeless) Alchemical Radio (show #85) Alchemical Radio is produced by our friends Terri~B and The Reverend Rabbit from the Stone Premonitions label, and features some of the best Psychedelia, Progressive Rock, Metal, and adventurous Pop that the underground has to offer. Visit the Stone Premonitions web site at http://aural-innovations.com/stonepremonitions Eric Anders ? "A Man For No Season" Flyboy & The Rhythm Bandits ? "Fly In The Ointment" Geoff Oelsner ? "Geoff Oelsner, LCSW?s Dream" Geoff Oelsner ? "Geoff Oelsner, LCSW?s Dream" Greg Segal ? "Calling 1" Homeland Security ? "Walk For Peace" Jelinek Horst Attila ? "Pearl" H.R. Funk N? Puff ? "The Incantation" The Insane Picnic ? "In The Summer Rain" Jim Couchenour ? "Living Colour" Joann Wisniewska ? "A Place Of Eternal Spring" Joe Freeman ? "I?m Free Gonna Take My Time" John Pinamonti ? "Back In The Old Days" Lope ? "Panik" Mr Love & Justice ? "Tumbleweed" Madmen & Dreamers ? "Retreat" Mark Van Overmeire ? "Patagonia" Drool Trough (show #29) Drool Trough is an all genres show featuring cool music from the underground. Anything is game for Drool Trough, and from one track to the next you will hear completely different sounds and styles, all from homemade musicians and teeny weeny but ultra fiesty labels. LISTEN TO THIS WEEK?S SHOW TO HEAR HOW YOU CAN WIN A CD BY THE NEW DIGITAL SOUND. Don Campau & Charles Rice Goff III ? ?How To Cut Kabocha? (from Pen Pals 3) Don Campau & Amy Denio ? ?Viaggatore Bella? (from Pen Pals 3) San Francisco Blue ? ?Listen To The Voice? (from Hurting For People) Mental Anguish ? ?Telemarketers Always Call At Dinnertime? (from Open Loops Vol. 1) The Dickies ? ?Rosemary? (from Stukas Over Disneyland) Cornelius Cardew Choir ? ?Political Composition #1? (from Dissenting Soundscapes and Songs of G.W.'s America) David Slusser ? ?Thug? (from Dissenting Soundscapes and Songs of G.W.'s America) The New Digital Sound ? ?Smile? (from The Depressed American Dream) Dino DeMuro ? ?Highway Patrolled By Aircraft? (from Sleeping Highway) Patrick Porter ? ?Window Seat? (from Lisha Kill) Poor Luther?s Bones ? ?Devil?s Broth? (from Next to Nowhere) Depressive Art ? ?So Much Left To Say? (from The Ghostride Experience) Coltrane Motion - ?Supersexy ?67? (from No Well Ok Maybe Just A Little) Strangers On A Train ? ?Out Of The Rain? (from Strangers On A Train) Islaja ? ?Uni P?ll?n? Olemisesta? (from Palaa Aurinkoon) Metamorphosis ? ?Confinement? (from Then All Was Silent) Channing Cope ? ?Next Year? (from Sugar In Our Blood) Non Finire Mai ? ?Dinner Party Mafia? (from Katzenjammer) Fake Ray ? ?I Was Already Dead? (from The Fumes Are Deadly EP) Giles ? ?Keep On Dancin?? (from Blue Funk) http://Aural-Innovations.com From Chuckrecs at AOL.COM Sat Apr 23 21:45:03 2005 From: Chuckrecs at AOL.COM (Chuck Rosenberg) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:45:03 EDT Subject: HW: "Daze of the Underground" Rev. just for fun Disc I Message-ID: uhh...to sharpen up my not-so-honed review-chops and also just for fun (so used to having had at least a few before i even start), thought i'd put down my comments on this release, old hat for most maybe, but i just picked it up a coupla months ago (haven't listened to it in a while actually). (Curious to see others' comments/faves, or should i just go look in the Archives?) sorta im promptu...culled from amidst pages of rambling boring peronal-journal and notes on the "A.A." book and what-not...starfarer feel free to do a piss-take if any of it's overly-sentimental or pretentious... generall speaking, i guess you could say this is more from the metal/doom angle (w/many current and classic space-rock bands that fall somewhere in between) than either the indie/crust/post-punk-ish "Assassins of Silence" or the techno-remix "Ritual of the Solstice"...anyway, the three together indicate quite a span of influence, though all these tributes may be a bit indulgent. what the smeg, here it goes... Time Blake "Spirit of the Age" There truly are several great distinctive re-constructions of this tune, this one naturally adhering more to the '79 era, which Tim co-arranged, i guess...just love that crisp, bright, tight synth-driven sound...that lead is fantastic!...is that guit or some kind of synth?? super-human realms of texture and dexterity...sounds like Huw possessed by Hendrix... tim's vocal is nasally and properly low-mixed, but perfect. Litmus "Paradox" faithful to the orig. even to the point of reproducing the melotron, but heavier metallic power-chords for the juiced-up bit and plenty of attack-fx, two voices to address the Lemmy and Brock tones, good energy, anachronistic Huw-style leads Amorphis "levitation" one of the first high-profile metal acts to release a HW cover, I was so psyched when this came out 'cause i'd been telling my old metal friends that they should all dig on HW...but less stoked now...those chunky sterile, compressed, claustrophobic power chords cannot breath into space... Spacehead "Right Stuff" These guys blew me away when they released "In Space We Trust", seemed like they wanted to throw some balls-out thrashing metal and british tribal music together and take it for a ride. this is a good version, more of a swift stomp than incessant thrash-snare; but there've been so many, HW and otherwise, and only seems a good excuse to bring attention to a truly classic cover-version, and definitive reinterpretation of the original, Pressurehed's - featured on the Sudden Vertigo album, recalls the original's chords and words but takes to a parallel universe of rhythmic, noisy, menacing, industrial, totally-inspired space-rock! wow, i'm getting excited... (but listening to Vocokesh now, which is good...) Back to the death-metal scene, we have Meads of Asphodel - "Utopia" the vox of course are pure death shite-style, everything else pretty standard besides the "bored shitless" bit, some new fx, alan on bass, huw on guit. not bad, but basically expendable...which maybe makes it bad...considering the oversaturation of covers in the midst... A basically unrecognizable "Song of the Swords" by Enchanted sped up to thrash -tempo, i kinda like this interpretation and the tight death-style drum-fills and the guit that recalls the orig. keyboard riff in the chorus - vox are death-growl and black-screech respectively, but once again basically shite, as have been most since about '91/'92. I like Alan's increasingly-harsh vocal style as here on Bedouin's "Sword of the East", becoming gradually more like #1. Silver Machine does itself and tries to recreate the original feel i suppose, but why bother? i think my favorite cover (piss-take really) is Sore Throat's "Silver Kerching". The original (or should we say HW's own original remix) simply has a sense of "moment" inherently born of a time and place and space (even if it's not truly live) not reproducable, a freaky space-pop fluke not even the group themselves have ever recaptured, or even tried. Murkins redo "Psi Power", overly faithful to the original "armchair" Hawklords version right down to texture and tuning, expendable. Quarkspace does QS&C natch, an entirely silly rendition w/Paul Williams' obnoxious ever-present "Bop!"-snare, and sloppy live faux-brit dual-vox, bright cheery piano stomps, some fuzz guitar - appropriate! Still, recalls its far-surperior "Assassins" counterpart - the disturbingly-whacked version by Puff Tube, as unlikely an event as even HW's own "Silver Machine". Overmars - takes on the godly "Magnu" and succeeds! suitably heavy and stomping job, ups the menace a bit with a modern doom-metal rhythm guitar while the keys remain lofty, spacy, inspired. Alpha Omega does a decent "Refer Madness" here, w/some good '70s-style keys, plenty of fx, but misses the satirical inflection of Uncle Bob's original vocal. ST 37 "Orgone Accumulator" might have been curious to hear something more recent from ST, but this is sort of a classic itself, typically noisy fuzzed-out stomp, scott's whiny punk-yodel nearly drowned out by the storm of guitar, fx and tronics, throws in some additional reflections on Reich later on in the whigged-out boogie. We get another "Magnu" from History of Guns. i've always been partial to this tune, far more so than many others' faves (like "paradox", for one), so i hafta love it, esp. the techno/electro-style percussives, but it's meant more as a reprise and end to disc I, thus truncated... Disc II comin' soon, i guess... NP: "Silver Machine" by Namesake (you've got your own, but it's not as good as the orig. model) NE: Nature Valley oats 'n' honey granola-bar NQ: Screwdriver, hold the Rotka From jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM Sun Apr 24 07:27:37 2005 From: jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM (Jerry Kranitz) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:27:37 -0400 Subject: Off: new releases from The Spacious Mind Message-ID: All God Damn I'm A Countryman releases will be stock at Aural Innovations. They were mailed from Sweden this week. Drop me a note to reserve. Jerry From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Mon Apr 25 10:52:11 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:52:11 +0100 Subject: OFF: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Doug Pearson wrote: > On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:42:41 +0100, M Holmes > wrote: > >Seems Benedict once said that rock music is a vehicle of anti-religion. > > Here's his quote about rock music: > "... the expression of elemental passions which, in the big musical > festivals, have taken on a cultural character, that is to say, [the > character] of a counter-cult, opposed to Christian worship" > > see: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,12272,1463902,00.html The thing is, factually I don't think this is controversial. A left-wing moderate Christian could safely say this of almost any heavy metal gig, where throwing of horns and songs about Satan are, let's face it, not rare. And while it's not terribly significant in theological terms characterising such things as a `counter-cult' is probably fair enough. If that was as far as he went I don't think we'd have much to worry about. I don't think we *do* have much to worry about, I should say, but all the same the true depth of the problem is that we are talking here about the man who came up with rubbish like this: http://listserv.ispnetinc.net/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9611D&L=BOC-L&D=0&I=-3&P=10604 Which as we said at the time, is mighty unfair to bands like Sabbath given how many more bands there are would kill to be on that list, if indeed (Mayhem spring to mind) they haven't already... > I'm just disappointed that after two "John Paul"s, he isn't taking the > name "George Ringo I" ... Perhaps papal nomenclature reflects the writing credits... But seriously, I imagine given the above he'd be keen to avoid their `subliminal Satanic influence'... Yours, Jon ObCD: Hawkwind - _Love In Space_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Mon Apr 25 12:25:47 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:25:47 +0100 Subject: OFF: New Pope don't rock In-Reply-To: Jon Jarrett's message of Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:52:11 +0100 Message-ID: Jon Jarrett writes: > http://listserv.ispnetinc.net/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9611D&L=BOC-L&D=0&I=-3&P=10604 Y'know, I'd utterly forgotten I'd written that. Damned if I didn't prophesy the next Pope huh? FoFP From shll at HAGEDORN.DK Tue Apr 26 02:51:45 2005 From: shll at HAGEDORN.DK (SHLL (Scott Heller)) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:51:45 +0200 Subject: HW: Bergen! Message-ID: Hello! I just wanted to tell everyone on the list that I will be attending the Hawkwind concert in Bergen Norway on Weds May 4th. It was a last minute decisions but I had to go..... crazy Hawkwind fans. I will also talk to the band and get the final word, if they even know about Take me to your Leader! I promise! later, scott ObCD- Brant Bjork and the Bros with Ed Mundell Live at Roadburn 2005 From shll at HAGEDORN.DK Tue Apr 26 07:32:47 2005 From: shll at HAGEDORN.DK (SHLL (Scott Heller)) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:32:47 +0200 Subject: HW in Bergen Update Message-ID: Hej, I just spoke to Thomas the Singer in WE and he has been corresponding with the band and they are bringing the full psychedelic lightshow including Dancers to Bergen for this show. WE will also jam with Hawkwind as well so it is going to be an amazing show. If you don't know the Norwegian band, WE, you should really check them out. The best band in Norway and playing one part heavy, one part psych and one part space but all ROCK.. www.werock.org anyone else flying to Bergen????? scott From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Tue Apr 26 08:44:27 2005 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:44:27 -0400 Subject: HW: Litmus gigs Message-ID: A reminder of 2 gigs and an announcement of a new one: May 19th: The Underworld Camden, supporting The Atomic Bitchwax (Litmus onstage 19:30) June 19th: the Tackeroo, Hednesford June 30th: The Man on the Moon, Cambridge Hopefully, we will see you at one (or more) of these. Colin From cea at CARLAZ.COM Tue Apr 26 09:17:18 2005 From: cea at CARLAZ.COM (Carl Edlund Anderson) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:17:18 +0100 Subject: HW: Litmus gigs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 26/04/2005 13:44, Colin J Allen wrote: > June 30th: The Man on the Moon, Cambridge Cool! I think I can make that at last :) My own band has a couple of upcoming gigs at the Man on the Moon :) Space rock on! Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson mailto:cea at carlaz.com http://www.carlaz.com/ From coral at APORT.RU Wed Apr 27 04:48:30 2005 From: coral at APORT.RU (Alisa) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:48:30 +0400 Subject: new releases from The Spacious Mind Message-ID: Hi, some time ago in one interview with Vintersorg founder Andreas Hedlund I've read that he is going to work on some projects with musicians from Spacious Mind, is this true?.. cheers, Alisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Captain Cloud" To: Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:43 PM Subject: new releases from The Spacious Mind > > > Just received an email from The Spacious Mind about the following new > releases, available now: > > > A new studio cd from Swedens finest. > "Rotv?lta" is 55.59 minutes with some of the best stuff ever from Space Your > Face Studios. > > Order it from us or from any of our friends: > clearspot, ace of discs, freak emporium, among others, should have it > available next week or so. > > from us: > 140 SEK, paypal payment: > henrik at countrymanrecords.com > > And also the two first releases in our cdr series is here to be ordered: > CCDR001 - The Spacious Mind, Live 030228, Skellefte? > CCDR002 - R?d Kjetil And The Loving Eye Of God, Title Unknown > > Each release is limited to 50 copies, numbered and in a nice paper > packing. > Price: 80 SEK. > > And yes, the website will be updated soon. > > > > The web site for The Spacious Mind is at http://www.countrymanrecords.com > > Note that R?d Kjetil is not part of TSM, rather this is a different group > (no TSM members) on the private label that TSM runs. And, this release is > not the official release that came out just a few months ago, but rather a > new release by R?d Kjetil and co. > > Note also that my Paypal account is not set up for Swedish Kronors, so I > used http://www.xe.com to convert the SEK amount into USD and transferred > that amount (rounded up) as my payment. > > Cheers, > > > Captain Cloud > capcloud at hawklord.com > > > From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Thu Apr 28 13:55:49 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 18:55:49 +0100 Subject: NIK: Space Ritual @ The 100 Club, London, 22nd April 2005 Message-ID: Dear All, I went to a show and wrote one of me reviews, like. Forgive the explanations for non-fans :-) "It'd been a while since I'd caught up with ex-Hawkwind saxophonist Nik Turner's attempt to keep the old hippy fires burning, partly because they tend to stay well west of London and partly because they've never been more than a fun amateur retread act in my experience, all right but never earth-shattering. You go with low expectations, you come home happy, on a good night they might have had time to rehearse beforehand, that sort of thing. Continual promises of an imminent new album and a setlist consisting mainly of songs that were new before I was born rather fail to shake the impression that at best this is a Hawkwind tribute band, however many original members they may have. "Let me say to start off, they seem to be suddenly, after years of playing this part, out to change something of it. But it took me a while to adjust. Having been bombarded with a slowly-increasing number of promised original members which finally reached seven (the first Hawkwind was a six-piece) but which included their later Canadian synth player who these days plays a strung wood-axe through a VCS3 synthi, and a two-and-a-half hour show, I was expecting something unusual, but the kit on the stage did not include Del's axe and VCS3, and while it did include two drum kits, one was very cut-down and there were some DJ decks in front of it, and an electric organ next to it. I was suspicious. Especially when, at nine-thirty, the two-and-a-half hour show hadn't yet started, and no-one I'd expected to come and see it had done so (one had, but I hadn't found her yet). The house DJ was playing a variety of old blues and rock and roll, but not with any apparent attempt to make it coherent or attention-grabbing, and I was feeling restive. "At about that point, however, young Sam Ollis, son of the original Hawkwind drummer, made an appearance on stage, behind the decks, and it became clear after a few minutes that the `show' was going to include a set from him. He began with various bits of B-movie sample over the last track of the house DJ's, and then expanded into old dub and after a little while in that theme finally let a few beats into things. I've not seen this being done up close before, so I couldn't really tell you how good he was at it, but he was managing to build up some excitement and adding more and more space noise into it from somewhere, quite possibly the records as at least one of them was later exposed by Space Ritual's dancer to be a samples compilation. Well, whatever, sounded good to me. And after he'd been going about a quarter of an hour, a saxophonist we all knew took position on stage beside him followed by the rest of the band and began to make noises around him. And thus I could discover that tonight's line-up was, left to right, Thomas Crimble (Hawkwind 1971) on organ, vocals and guitar, also with beard suitable for playing Father Chistmas in, Sam Ollis, decks and minimalist drums, Dave Anderson (Hawkwind 1971-1972) on bass and vocals, Nik Turner Esq (Hawkwind 1970-1976, 1982-1985, 1997-1998, now legally forbidden to use the name) on vocals, sax, flute, and cowbell, Terry Ollis (Hawkwind 1970-1972) on drums, Mick Slattery (Hawkwind 1970) on lead guitar and "John the Ghost" on synth. So there you go. "Now, young Master Ollis did not leave the decks. Instead he used them as a source of extra weird noise and scratching and as Nik intoned `Welcome to the Future' (which Hawkwind always used to do at the *end* of their sets) and Crimble sat down at the organ what emerged was a dub version of `Ghost Dance'. By the look of the live album they were selling I should call this `Cosmic Chant' and since all that was really retained was the chanted vocals, which originally came off an Inner City Unit song anyway, maybe that's fair enough. But it was actually quite good, which is more than one could ever say for `Ghost Dance'. I was already settling into this. Lots of red and yellow lights, Space Ritual's usual and excellent dancer, fairly gentle dub and scratching, was, as this faded gently out, the equally dub version of Robert Calvert's `The Right Stuff' from _Captain Lockheed_. I'm not sure that really got over the intense lyrics about a high-speed fighter pilot, but it was still quite pleasant, and I've seen an *awful* lot of versions of this since Monster Magnet added it to their set not so long ago, and I was very glad of any that didn't just bore me by now and this didn't. So far so good. "I should say that for this one Sam Ollis had left the decks and gone back to his kit, but he played it standing up, one foot on kick-drum pedal and the rest done by lightly-held sticks. I remember the first time I saw the father-and-son drum partnership and they were rock-solid but very very difficult to stop or move. Someone seems to have thought about how to change that, and now young Master Ollis is leaving the heavy rhythm to his dad, who is good at it, not quite as good as he was in 1971 in the patch when the drugs were working and before he was fired for falling off his stool stoned too much during gigs but hey, is Clapton any good now? No, so. Sam was instead dancing new patterns round his dad's rhythm, adding a distinctly drum'n'bass kind of accent to the percussion which again, went down pretty well as far as I was concerned. All through the gig, while the stringsmen might have been a bit plodding and basic, especially Mr Crimble who just isn't continuous enough to be playing space-rock dammit, the Ollis pair made sure that for those with ears to hear, there was something interesting going on with the rhythms and several different things at once to dance too. "`Right Stuff' finished with a second break by Slattery absolutely dripping with wah, anyway, and next came `Born To Go'. Crimble still at the organ meant that this too emerged as a slight dub, which was a gimmick I was maybe adjusting to by now but it was played up to quite well and again I saw no reason to be disappointed. Ollis Jr returned to the decks for the tone poem `Sonic Attack', and I have to say this was one of the better versions I've seen, genuinely unsettling not least because of young Ollis's DJing additions, and certainly the shortest version I've ever seen Nik do which has to be good. "It took me a while to recognise what they played next, partly because it's ridiculously obscure, coming off the bootleg out-takes album from an Egyptian concept album Nik did in 1978 under the name Sphynx with various people who would these days prefer to think they knew better than that, and partly because they'd left out all the musical complexity and just gone for a simple chord sequence as backing, but it was nonetheless `Chronological Crime' or whatever its name really is, and I was so delighted to see it done at all that I was almost ready to forgive their complete ducking of the challenge of actually playing the thing. Almost. Nik did get all the words right though, which is not easy to do. Ollis on the kit for this one, needlessly as it just wasn't very exciting. He moved back to the decks for an equally lacklustre version of `Orgone accumulator', however, and it didn't make it any more exciting so perhaps he was not the limiting factor. Restricted to cheesy blues by what was becoming a monotonously fixed pace and the organ, I can't say this was my favourite version even though I've only seen it done two or three times. This will probably always come bottom of that pile. "Now however things took a turn for the better. Nik read a poem I'd not heard before, the refrain being along the pattern if "all our hearts are frozen now", the noun changing each verse, and that wasn't actually bad, and they went from there into `D-Rider', which is always slow and suits it and was as it usually is quite beautiful in a simple heavy way. and Crimble finally picked up his guitar, which added to the weight, while Sam Ollis went back to his drums, and so the flavour of the act had now changed rather, a lumbering prog monster lurching forth from the cheery dub ruins and this was the form they took for the rest of the set. "Perhaps it was inevitable then that they now went into Nik's best ever song, `Brainstorm'. It was still a little tame, but I can at least say that I've now seen a version of `Brainstorm' with cowbell, because that's what Nik was doing for those bits of it which he wasn't covering in blarty saxophone or actually occasionally singing. "Following that came the group's actually-new number, `Sonic Savages', which is simple as you'd expect but not bad, and during it Angie the dancer, who having appeared in various costumes throughout (including a French maid outfit I really couldn't see the relevance of) was now attired as musketeer and dubbed Dave Anderson with her foil as she passed along the stage, which amused me. By the time they wound that up and went into a reasonable version of Calvert's `Ejection', she was a PVC-habited nun blessing everyone and it actually had something to do with the whole thing. She can actually dance which always helps. Not a great `Ejection', and followed by a similarly not-excellent `Watching the Grass Grow', but all was atoned for by a solid and brutal `Master of the Universe'. Mind you I've never seen a bad version, I'm not sure if one's possible, but I did enjoy this. "Last number was `Silver Machine', of course, preceded with Nik's `Thunder Rider Rap' and accompanied with a silver-clad Angie (who had had two other dancers passing through the crowd and getting people dancing with them to add to the party mood, but they seemed to get tired of this after half an hour and just wandered round looking stroppy instead), and that was, well, I've heard better but hey. And after the band had cleared the stage Nik stayed on and played `The Pink Panther Theme' on sax and then led the crowd in an acapella version of `Bones of Elvis' so you'd have to say he was trying to give us our money's worth. "All in all this band is limited. They're most limited of all by Thomas Crimble's basic rhythm style which never allows them any real ferocity or attack, though I get the sense also that Terry Ollis has a favourite speed which it's very difficult to shake him out of. The pace was always the same except during `D-Rider' when it slowed down. I think they did attempt to speed `Watching the Grass Grow' up a bit but it didn't really work. On the other hand, it's quite fun, and they (perhaps in fact just Sam Ollis, but everyone has clearly decided to run with it) seem to be trying to do something fairly major to reinvent the old material. There is, in short, something going on here still, though sometimes it really has to work to make its way out. Will it ever make it, I have to wonder? But at least it wasn't what I'd been expecting." Yours, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Thu Apr 28 21:15:45 2005 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:15:45 -0400 Subject: Space Ritual @ The 100 Club, London, 22nd April 2005 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As you all know Nik allows his shows to be traded. With that in mind I do have a good copy of the show and am creating a "tree" under the auspices of the NeoQuark Yahoo Group. Email me offlist if you want to be a part of this. Mike -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Jon Jarrett Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:56 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: NIK: Space Ritual @ The 100 Club, London, 22nd April 2005 Dear All, I went to a show and wrote one of me reviews, like. Forgive the explanations for non-fans :-) "It'd been a while since I'd caught up with ex-Hawkwind saxophonist Nik Turner's attempt to keep the old hippy fires burning, partly because they tend to stay well west of London and partly because they've never been more than a fun amateur retread act in my experience, all right but never earth-shattering. You go with low expectations, you come home happy, on a good night they might have had time to rehearse beforehand, that sort of thing. Continual promises of an imminent new album and a setlist consisting mainly of songs that were new before I was born rather fail to shake the impression that at best this is a Hawkwind tribute band, however many original members they may have. "Let me say to start off, they seem to be suddenly, after years of playing this part, out to change something of it. But it took me a while to adjust. Having been bombarded with a slowly-increasing number of promised original members which finally reached seven (the first Hawkwind was a six-piece) but which included their later Canadian synth player who these days plays a strung wood-axe through a VCS3 synthi, and a two-and-a-half hour show, I was expecting something unusual, but the kit on the stage did not include Del's axe and VCS3, and while it did include two drum kits, one was very cut-down and there were some DJ decks in front of it, and an electric organ next to it. I was suspicious. Especially when, at nine-thirty, the two-and-a-half hour show hadn't yet started, and no-one I'd expected to come and see it had done so (one had, but I hadn't found her yet). The house DJ was playing a variety of old blues and rock and roll, but not with any apparent attempt to make it coherent or attention-grabbing, and I was feeling restive. "At about that point, however, young Sam Ollis, son of the original Hawkwind drummer, made an appearance on stage, behind the decks, and it became clear after a few minutes that the `show' was going to include a set from him. He began with various bits of B-movie sample over the last track of the house DJ's, and then expanded into old dub and after a little while in that theme finally let a few beats into things. I've not seen this being done up close before, so I couldn't really tell you how good he was at it, but he was managing to build up some excitement and adding more and more space noise into it from somewhere, quite possibly the records as at least one of them was later exposed by Space Ritual's dancer to be a samples compilation. Well, whatever, sounded good to me. And after he'd been going about a quarter of an hour, a saxophonist we all knew took position on stage beside him followed by the rest of the band and began to make noises around him. And thus I could discover that tonight's line-up was, left to right, Thomas Crimble (Hawkwind 1971) on organ, vocals and guitar, also with beard suitable for playing Father Chistmas in, Sam Ollis, decks and minimalist drums, Dave Anderson (Hawkwind 1971-1972) on bass and vocals, Nik Turner Esq (Hawkwind 1970-1976, 1982-1985, 1997-1998, now legally forbidden to use the name) on vocals, sax, flute, and cowbell, Terry Ollis (Hawkwind 1970-1972) on drums, Mick Slattery (Hawkwind 1970) on lead guitar and "John the Ghost" on synth. So there you go. "Now, young Master Ollis did not leave the decks. Instead he used them as a source of extra weird noise and scratching and as Nik intoned `Welcome to the Future' (which Hawkwind always used to do at the *end* of their sets) and Crimble sat down at the organ what emerged was a dub version of `Ghost Dance'. By the look of the live album they were selling I should call this `Cosmic Chant' and since all that was really retained was the chanted vocals, which originally came off an Inner City Unit song anyway, maybe that's fair enough. But it was actually quite good, which is more than one could ever say for `Ghost Dance'. I was already settling into this. Lots of red and yellow lights, Space Ritual's usual and excellent dancer, fairly gentle dub and scratching, was, as this faded gently out, the equally dub version of Robert Calvert's `The Right Stuff' from _Captain Lockheed_. I'm not sure that really got over the intense lyrics about a high-speed fighter pilot, but it was still quite pleasant, and I've seen an *awful* lot of versions of this since Monster Magnet added it to their set not so long ago, and I was very glad of any that didn't just bore me by now and this didn't. So far so good. "I should say that for this one Sam Ollis had left the decks and gone back to his kit, but he played it standing up, one foot on kick-drum pedal and the rest done by lightly-held sticks. I remember the first time I saw the father-and-son drum partnership and they were rock-solid but very very difficult to stop or move. Someone seems to have thought about how to change that, and now young Master Ollis is leaving the heavy rhythm to his dad, who is good at it, not quite as good as he was in 1971 in the patch when the drugs were working and before he was fired for falling off his stool stoned too much during gigs but hey, is Clapton any good now? No, so. Sam was instead dancing new patterns round his dad's rhythm, adding a distinctly drum'n'bass kind of accent to the percussion which again, went down pretty well as far as I was concerned. All through the gig, while the stringsmen might have been a bit plodding and basic, especially Mr Crimble who just isn't continuous enough to be playing space-rock dammit, the Ollis pair made sure that for those with ears to hear, there was something interesting going on with the rhythms and several different things at once to dance too. "`Right Stuff' finished with a second break by Slattery absolutely dripping with wah, anyway, and next came `Born To Go'. Crimble still at the organ meant that this too emerged as a slight dub, which was a gimmick I was maybe adjusting to by now but it was played up to quite well and again I saw no reason to be disappointed. Ollis Jr returned to the decks for the tone poem `Sonic Attack', and I have to say this was one of the better versions I've seen, genuinely unsettling not least because of young Ollis's DJing additions, and certainly the shortest version I've ever seen Nik do which has to be good. "It took me a while to recognise what they played next, partly because it's ridiculously obscure, coming off the bootleg out-takes album from an Egyptian concept album Nik did in 1978 under the name Sphynx with various people who would these days prefer to think they knew better than that, and partly because they'd left out all the musical complexity and just gone for a simple chord sequence as backing, but it was nonetheless `Chronological Crime' or whatever its name really is, and I was so delighted to see it done at all that I was almost ready to forgive their complete ducking of the challenge of actually playing the thing. Almost. Nik did get all the words right though, which is not easy to do. Ollis on the kit for this one, needlessly as it just wasn't very exciting. He moved back to the decks for an equally lacklustre version of `Orgone accumulator', however, and it didn't make it any more exciting so perhaps he was not the limiting factor. Restricted to cheesy blues by what was becoming a monotonously fixed pace and the organ, I can't say this was my favourite version even though I've only seen it done two or three times. This will probably always come bottom of that pile. "Now however things took a turn for the better. Nik read a poem I'd not heard before, the refrain being along the pattern if "all our hearts are frozen now", the noun changing each verse, and that wasn't actually bad, and they went from there into `D-Rider', which is always slow and suits it and was as it usually is quite beautiful in a simple heavy way. and Crimble finally picked up his guitar, which added to the weight, while Sam Ollis went back to his drums, and so the flavour of the act had now changed rather, a lumbering prog monster lurching forth from the cheery dub ruins and this was the form they took for the rest of the set. "Perhaps it was inevitable then that they now went into Nik's best ever song, `Brainstorm'. It was still a little tame, but I can at least say that I've now seen a version of `Brainstorm' with cowbell, because that's what Nik was doing for those bits of it which he wasn't covering in blarty saxophone or actually occasionally singing. "Following that came the group's actually-new number, `Sonic Savages', which is simple as you'd expect but not bad, and during it Angie the dancer, who having appeared in various costumes throughout (including a French maid outfit I really couldn't see the relevance of) was now attired as musketeer and dubbed Dave Anderson with her foil as she passed along the stage, which amused me. By the time they wound that up and went into a reasonable version of Calvert's `Ejection', she was a PVC-habited nun blessing everyone and it actually had something to do with the whole thing. She can actually dance which always helps. Not a great `Ejection', and followed by a similarly not-excellent `Watching the Grass Grow', but all was atoned for by a solid and brutal `Master of the Universe'. Mind you I've never seen a bad version, I'm not sure if one's possible, but I did enjoy this. "Last number was `Silver Machine', of course, preceded with Nik's `Thunder Rider Rap' and accompanied with a silver-clad Angie (who had had two other dancers passing through the crowd and getting people dancing with them to add to the party mood, but they seemed to get tired of this after half an hour and just wandered round looking stroppy instead), and that was, well, I've heard better but hey. And after the band had cleared the stage Nik stayed on and played `The Pink Panther Theme' on sax and then led the crowd in an acapella version of `Bones of Elvis' so you'd have to say he was trying to give us our money's worth. "All in all this band is limited. They're most limited of all by Thomas Crimble's basic rhythm style which never allows them any real ferocity or attack, though I get the sense also that Terry Ollis has a favourite speed which it's very difficult to shake him out of. The pace was always the same except during `D-Rider' when it slowed down. I think they did attempt to speed `Watching the Grass Grow' up a bit but it didn't really work. On the other hand, it's quite fun, and they (perhaps in fact just Sam Ollis, but everyone has clearly decided to run with it) seem to be trying to do something fairly major to reinvent the old material. There is, in short, something going on here still, though sometimes it really has to work to make its way out. Will it ever make it, I have to wonder? But at least it wasn't what I'd been expecting." Yours, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From ketil.svendsen at FISKAREN.NHST.NO Fri Apr 29 03:22:03 2005 From: ketil.svendsen at FISKAREN.NHST.NO (Ketil Svendsen) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:22:03 +0200 Subject: HW: Bergen DVD in the making? Message-ID: Hmm.... seems my original post was rejected ... third try now :-) Had an email from Bergenfest (the festival Hawkwind/We/Enslaved will share stage on in Bergen) stating that they weren't sure if I could get a photo pass for the concert because - and here is the REAL interesting part - there was "a chance the concert would be recorded for DVD" .... (!) Ma-aaan, Ketil Svendsen, Bergen P? 27. apr. 2005 kl. 11.00 skrev Automatic digest processor: Fra: "SHLL (Scott Heller)" I just spoke to Thomas the Singer in WE and he has been corresponding with the band and they are bringing the full psychedelic lightshow including Dancers to Bergen for this show. From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 29 06:37:22 2005 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:37:22 +0100 Subject: NIK: Space Ritual @ The 100 Club, London, 22nd April 2005 In-Reply-To: Jon Jarrett's message of Thu, 28 Apr 2005 18:55:49 +0100 Message-ID: Jon Jarrett writes: > "Now however things took a turn for the better. Nik read a poem > I'd not heard before, the refrain being along the pattern if "all our > hearts are frozen now" Moorcock's "Note From a Cold Planet"? FoFP From hw at CY-B.ORG Fri Apr 29 13:29:55 2005 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:29:55 -0400 Subject: HW: Album Release Dates + Gigs Message-ID: + ++ ++ +++STAR WARRIORS + ++ ++ + Always make Mission Control and BOC-L Your first point of call for the LATEST Hawkwind information........... We are pleased to announce the release dates for our new studio album and single: Single - 'Spirit of the Age' - 30th August Album - 'Take Me To Your Leader' 12th Sept We also have two more confirmed Scandinavian dates: 26.05.05 Helsinki, Tavastia www.tavastiaklubi.fi 27.05.05 Tampere, Klubi http://www.klubi.net/tre/html/eng_index.html More gigs being arranged (dates for the diary): London Astoria 21st Dec Birkenhead 15th Dec Manchester 14th or 16th TBA More detail on MISSION CONTROL asap !....... + ++ ++ +++STAR WARRIORS + ++ ++ + www.hawkwind.com From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Fri Apr 29 13:53:45 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:53:45 +0100 Subject: NIK: Space Ritual @ The 100 Club, London, 22nd April 2005 In-Reply-To: <200504291037.j3TAbMJH010075@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005, M Holmes wrote: > Jon Jarrett writes: > > > "Now however things took a turn for the better. Nik read a poem > > I'd not heard before, the refrain being along the pattern if "all our > > hearts are frozen now" > > Moorcock's "Note From a Cold Planet"? Yes, that's it. Yours, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Fri Apr 29 15:24:09 2005 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:24:09 +0100 Subject: HW: Album Release Dates + Gigs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005, Rik Rx wrote: > Always make Mission Control and BOC-L Your first point of call > for the LATEST Hawkwind information........... http://www.hawkwind.com/pf.htm :-P > More detail on MISSION CONTROL asap !....... It's quite ironic you should say that, really, as http://www.hawkwind.com/up_.htm says: "WE WILL BE ANNOUNCING FURTHER DETAILS asap ON BOC-L" Ah, recursion, two-headed hawk thou never wert. Or something. Yours, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM Fri Apr 29 18:39:09 2005 From: JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM (JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:39:09 EDT Subject: HW: Album Release Dates + Gigs Message-ID: In a message dated 4/29/2005 12:32:02 PM US Eastern Standard Time, hw at CY-B.ORG writes: We are pleased to announce the release dates for our new studio album and single: Single - 'Spirit of the Age' - 30th August Album - 'Take Me To Your Leader' 12th Sept Yeah, I'll believe it when it happens! Joe From mjec.storer at NTLWORLD.COM Fri Apr 29 19:07:38 2005 From: mjec.storer at NTLWORLD.COM (Mark Storer) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 00:07:38 +0100 Subject: HW: Album Release Dates + Gigs Message-ID: ("Tongue in cheek" mode) Notice how you don't say which year!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Rx" To: Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Re: HW: Album Release Dates + Gigs >+ ++ ++ +++STAR WARRIORS + ++ ++ + > > Always make Mission Control and BOC-L Your first point of call > for the LATEST Hawkwind information........... > > We are pleased to announce the release dates > for our new studio album and single: > > Single - 'Spirit of the Age' - 30th August > Album - 'Take Me To Your Leader' 12th Sept > > We also have two more confirmed Scandinavian dates: > 26.05.05 Helsinki, Tavastia www.tavastiaklubi.fi > 27.05.05 Tampere, Klubi http://www.klubi.net/tre/html/eng_index.html > > More gigs being arranged (dates for the diary): > > London Astoria 21st Dec > Birkenhead 15th Dec > Manchester 14th or 16th TBA > > More detail on MISSION CONTROL asap !....... > > + ++ ++ +++STAR WARRIORS + ++ ++ + > > www.hawkwind.com