From eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 1 02:41:14 2004 From: eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM (eddie jobson) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:41:14 +0000 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: Good idea think I will pre-order mine. What are the saga of HW and the complete set all about? Apart from mags all I have is This is Hawkwind Do Not Panic, maybe someone can advise me if these others are worth buying? Thanks, Eddie. >From: M Holmes >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:24:52 +0100 > >Ian Abrahams writes: > > > With apologies for those getting this message more than once, here's > > an update on the Hawkwind biography that I've been working on: > > > Title is Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins, publisher SAF Publishing Ltd, > > release date 31st July 2004, UK ?25, US $40, hardcover. > > > Amazon are now listing the book on their UK site (I understand it will > > be on their US site really soon) with a pretty generous > > pre-publication discount offer running. > >Ordered mine and looking forward to it... > >Maybe the author will sign it soon... > >FoFP _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Apr 1 05:11:04 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:11:04 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: eddie jobson's message of Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:41:14 +0000 Message-ID: eddie jobson writes: > Good idea think I will pre-order mine. What are the saga of HW and the > complete set all about? Apart from mags all I have is This is Hawkwind Do > Not Panic, maybe someone can advise me if these others are worth buying? Dave Watson's "Born To Go" book is well worth having. I'll review Ian's once I've received it. Anyone know anything about the other book? FoFP From eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 1 05:22:24 2004 From: eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM (eddie jobson) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:22:24 +0000 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: I ordered the complete set book from amazon as it was only ?12 so worth a try, but the saga one which I am sure was discussed a while back? is on pre-order like the sonic assasins one. >From: M Holmes >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins >Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:11:04 +0100 > >eddie jobson writes: > > > Good idea think I will pre-order mine. What are the saga of HW and the > > complete set all about? Apart from mags all I have is This is Hawkwind >Do > > Not Panic, maybe someone can advise me if these others are worth buying? > >Dave Watson's "Born To Go" book is well worth having. > >I'll review Ian's once I've received it. > >Anyone know anything about the other book? > >FoFP _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Apr 1 05:25:15 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:25:15 +0100 Subject: Hawkwind subject of Fatwa Message-ID: BBC News Today. The pop band "Hawkwind" were today condemned by the British Muslim Council for their song "Assassins of Allah". The song, which features such lyrics as "Death unto all infidels" is claimed to be clearly based on Al Queda and and supports the stereotyping of muslims as terrorists. "I'm shocked that someone is making profits by painting Al Queda as heroes" said Muhhamad Quatari of the BMC. It has been suggested that muslims will picket concerts by the band whose albums also feature songs such as "Aerospaceage Inferno" and "Space is Their Palestine", also written to exploit the political situation. The Home Secretary has announced that the band will be investigated to see whether any racial hatred laws have been broken and that although he doesn't condone censorship, he would be consulting with executives from the music industry to see what could be done. He also stated that the Foreign Secretary had been in touch with the American government had made clear that Britain is willing to deport members of the band in response to concerns about their support of terrorism. A spokesman for the band would say only that "Hey, if President Bush wants us over there for a command performance, then of course we'll be happy to go". From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Apr 1 05:28:31 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:28:31 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: eddie jobson's message of Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:22:24 +0000 Message-ID: eddie jobson writes: > I ordered the complete set book from amazon as it was only ?12 so worth a > try, but the saga one which I am sure was discussed a while back? is on > pre-order like the sonic assasins one. Nope, Never heard of the Complete Set one nor the saga one. I'd appreciate it if someone would fill me in. Are these confirmed to be something to do with the band rather than some sort of fantasy novels? FoFP From chrisr at TIAC.NET Thu Apr 1 05:36:13 2004 From: chrisr at TIAC.NET (Chris Raymond) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 05:36:13 -0500 Subject: Hawkwind subject of Fatwa In-Reply-To: <200404011025.i31APFQr011310@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: It is April Fools Day. (I hope) Chris R -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of M Holmes Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 5:25 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Hawkwind subject of Fatwa BBC News Today. The pop band "Hawkwind" were today condemned by the British Muslim Council for their song "Assassins of Allah". The song, which features such lyrics as "Death unto all infidels" is claimed to be clearly based on Al Queda and and supports the stereotyping of muslims as terrorists. "I'm shocked that someone is making profits by painting Al Queda as heroes" said Muhhamad Quatari of the BMC. It has been suggested that muslims will picket concerts by the band whose albums also feature songs such as "Aerospaceage Inferno" and "Space is Their Palestine", also written to exploit the political situation. The Home Secretary has announced that the band will be investigated to see whether any racial hatred laws have been broken and that although he doesn't condone censorship, he would be consulting with executives from the music industry to see what could be done. He also stated that the Foreign Secretary had been in touch with the American government had made clear that Britain is willing to deport members of the band in response to concerns about their support of terrorism. A spokesman for the band would say only that "Hey, if President Bush wants us over there for a command performance, then of course we'll be happy to go". From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Thu Apr 1 05:41:17 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:41:17 +0200 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: No idea what the "Complete Set" thing is. "Saga of Hawkwind" by Carol Clerk is certainly a Hawkwind biography, perhaps a little less in-depth than "Sonic Assassins" from the chat I've had with Carol - less wordcount etc. Carol wrote a book on The Damned many years back (allegedly Dave Vanian thought it focused too much on the drinking and not enough on the music!) and recently one on Hughie Green and Paula Yates! Carol's a longtime music journalist so I'm sure it'll be well written. In the meantime, pre-orders on "Sonic Assassins" are doing very well (thanks folks!), yesterday we were in the Top 20 Amazon pre-orders, just ahead of Julie Andrews and her autobiography! Bestselling book on Amazon with "Hawkwind" in the title at the moment! Ian > Message date : Apr 01 2004, 11:31 AM > From : "M Holmes" > To : BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Copy to : > Subject : Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > eddie jobson writes: > > > I ordered the complete set book from amazon as it was only ?12 so worth a > > try, but the saga one which I am sure was discussed a while back? is on > > pre-order like the sonic assasins one. > > Nope, Never heard of the Complete Set one nor the saga one. I'd > appreciate it if someone would fill me in. Are these confirmed to be > something to do with the band rather than some sort of fantasy novels? > > FoFP > Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Thu Apr 1 12:59:34 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (js3619 at ACMENET.NET) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:59:34 -0500 Subject: OFF: Wayne Kramers's reasons for the hoohah... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://www.dkt-mc5.com/index.cfm?pg=FNOpenLetter Since a bunch like the 5, might as well keep the story flowin' to the list. J From paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK Thu Apr 1 13:06:43 2004 From: paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK (pauleatonjones) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:06:43 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IF, if, you can still get hold of it, I thoroughly recommend Dave Watson's 'Born To Go: Hawkwind In The Seventies'. Absolutely brilliant. Paul. On Thursday, Apr 1, 2004, at 08:41 Europe/London, eddie jobson wrote: > Good idea think I will pre-order mine. What are the saga of HW and the > complete set all about? Apart from mags all I have is This is Hawkwind > Do > Not Panic, maybe someone can advise me if these others are worth > buying? > > Thanks, > > Eddie. > > >> From: M Holmes >> Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >> To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >> Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins >> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:24:52 +0100 >> >> Ian Abrahams writes: >> >> > With apologies for those getting this message more than once, here's >> > an update on the Hawkwind biography that I've been working on: >> >> > Title is Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins, publisher SAF Publishing Ltd, >> > release date 31st July 2004, UK ?25, US $40, hardcover. >> >> > Amazon are now listing the book on their UK site (I understand it >> will >> > be on their US site really soon) with a pretty generous >> > pre-publication discount offer running. >> >> Ordered mine and looking forward to it... >> >> Maybe the author will sign it soon... >> >> FoFP > > _________________________________________________________________ > It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Thu Apr 1 15:42:41 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:42:41 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:41 AM Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins >In the meantime, pre-orders on "Sonic Assassins" are doing very well (thanks folks!), yesterday we were in the Top 20 >Amazon pre-orders, just ahead of Julie Andrews and her autobiography! Bestselling book on Amazon with "Hawkwind" in >the title at the moment! And now No. 29 in the Amazon "hot-50-prerelease" chart! A quite chuffed Ian. From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Thu Apr 1 17:16:37 2004 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:16:37 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: <00ca01c41829$e102cf40$fa23fea9@r1e1j2> Message-ID: Unfortunately you've dropped to #31, despite there being at least one more order ;-) While browsing through the main top 100 on Amazon I did notice Dr. Ali's Nutritional Bible, is that anything to do with a certain bass player, one wonders? Nick > -----Original Message----- > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Ian Abrahams > Sent: 01 April 2004 21:43 > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:41 AM > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > >In the meantime, pre-orders on "Sonic Assassins" are doing very well > (thanks folks!), yesterday we were in the Top 20 >Amazon > pre-orders, just > ahead of Julie Andrews and her autobiography! Bestselling > book on Amazon > with "Hawkwind" in >the title at the moment! > > And now No. 29 in the Amazon "hot-50-prerelease" chart! > > A quite chuffed Ian. > From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 1 19:21:46 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:21:46 -0500 Subject: Shocking news reaches Museum HQ Message-ID: Didn't Kraftwerk already to this 25 years ago ... ? ;^) -Doug jasret at mindspring.com On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:42:41 -0500, Dave Law wrote: >News has just reached Museum HQ of some frankly shocking news regarding >Hawkwinds future plans for touring and the accompanying line up, for more >information click on the following link >http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/newpage45.htm >I think once you see it you'll realise the significance! >Appreciate your thoughts on this either on the list or direct to me at >dl006a5789 at blueyonder.co.uk >regards >Dave > >Apologies for those who've had news of this from other sources! From ir004728 at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 1 18:47:07 2004 From: ir004728 at MINDSPRING.COM (Albert Bouchard) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:47:07 -0500 Subject: OFF: Wayne Kramers's reasons for the hoohah... In-Reply-To: <1080842374.406c58865a564@www.webmail.acmenet.net> Message-ID: On Apr 1, 2004, at 12:59 PM, js3619 at ACMENET.NET wrote: > Since a bunch like the 5, might as well keep the story flowin' to the > list. Ouch! Seems like brother Wayne has been taking it up the bee-hind lately. I think he waited too long to pull the plug on these schysters. Makes me feel like a truly luck man. Al PS Was not Wayne Kramer really the driving force behind MC5? We played with Rob Tyner and his band towards the end. He was a great guy but it was pretty sad. From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Thu Apr 1 20:06:59 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:06:59 -0500 Subject: OFF: Wayne Kramers's reasons for the hoohah... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >PS Was not Wayne Kramer really the driving force behind MC5? We played >with Rob Tyner and his band towards the end. He was a great guy but it >was pretty sad. > i recall reading that there's a CD of the latter-day Tyner band out there, called Motor City people, orck n roll people or something like that. Wayne definitely provided drive. I felt that near the end of the 5, Fred Smith was finally coming into his own on the axe and songwriter- he's all over the credits to Hig Time. Still hard to believe that Fred married Patti S...its as close to a proto-punk King and Queen as you'll get. I learned that the Total Energy archive series of MC5 records - Teen Age Lust, Ice Pick Slim, Starship, Power Trip, American Ruse, (forgettin'some others) - has been deleted from the catalog. The curious thing abotu those is they were usually compiled/produced by john Sinclair (67 breakout (or 66) was done by kramer,though). WK,DT,and MD must be trying to regain control over their legacy,... as well they should. J From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 1 20:12:18 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:12:18 -0500 Subject: OFF: Wayne Kramers's reasons for the hoohah... Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:47:07 -0500, Albert Bouchard wrote: >On Apr 1, 2004, at 12:59 PM, js3619 at ACMENET.NET wrote: > >> Since a bunch like the 5, might as well keep the story flowin' to the >> list. > >Ouch! Seems like brother Wayne has been taking it up the bee-hind >lately. I think he waited too long to pull the plug on these schysters. >Makes me feel like a truly luck man. >Al Thanks for posting that, Jason! Yeah, what a fucked-up situation. A shame, because the movie really is great. It truly sucks that the only way this is likely to be resolved is in the courts (which usually means that *everyone* loses) ... I suspect that there will soon be an injunction against showing the documentary. >PS Was not Wayne Kramer really the driving force behind MC5? We played >with Rob Tyner and his band towards the end. He was a great guy but it >was pretty sad. He definitely appears to be the driving force in the documentary! And at one point, he says that there was something along the lines of a "coup" in the band where Fred Smith was made "co-leader" along with him (Wayne), since Fred's songwriting was becoming much stronger, and Wayne was starting his decline into addiction. But yeah, that indicates that Wayne was the bandleader for the formative years of their career (and he's certainly had more of a "solo" career than any of the other '5, although Fred's Sonic Rendezvous Band might have been the best MC5 spinoff IMHO). -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Thu Apr 1 20:14:54 2004 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:14:54 EST Subject: OFF: Wayne Kramers's reasons for the hoohah... Message-ID: In a message dated 4/1/2004 8:12:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, jasret at MINDSPRING.COM writes: > I suspect that there will soon be an injunction > against showing the documentary. > Since this means I may never get to see it, may I take this WAY off-topic and ask if Cheap Trick do indeed make an appearance, and if someone could give me a summary of their input? thanks BobM From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Thu Apr 1 20:16:05 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:16:05 -0500 Subject: OFF: Wayne Kramer & CHeap Trick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Since this means I may never get to see it, may I take this WAY off-topic and >ask if Cheap Trick do indeed make an appearance, and if someone could give me >a summary of their input? >thanks >BobM > I know there have been fairly positive reviews of the Cheap Trick/Wayne Kramer tour from a fwe months back. Even a few songs where both rock n roll together. Posting like a mofo (for now), Jason From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Apr 1 20:37:47 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:37:47 -0500 Subject: OFF: Wayne Kramer & CHeap Trick Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 Bob Mayo wrote: >Since this means I may never get to see it, may I take this WAY >off-topic and ask if Cheap Trick do indeed make an appearance, and >if someone could give me a summary of their input? >thanks >BobM The name "Cheap Trick" appears in the closing-credits list of bands/musicians who helped finance/support the project (the one I mentioned that included the Damned, Monster Magnet, etc,). That's all. I forgot to include them since they're not as commonly discussed here on boc- l as the ones I did mention ... -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From erics at TELEPRES.COM Thu Apr 1 21:08:58 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:08:58 -0500 Subject: Kraftwerk (was Re: Shocking news reaches Museum HQ) In-Reply-To: ; from jasret@MINDSPRING.COM on Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 07:21:46PM -0500 Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 07:21:46PM -0500, Doug Pearson wrote: > Didn't Kraftwerk already to this 25 years ago ... ? ;^) My thought exactly! As I recall reading, they tried, but it didn't work too well. I guess the tech's a bit better now :-) So there I am, driving home late one night last week, along the Gardiner Expressway, an elevated highway that's a couple of miles of lakefront-to-horizon pixelboards [*] that I usually tune out without even thinking about it. But then one impinges on my consciousness. I do a double-take, and yes, it really does say what I think it says: KRAFTWERK Now there's a word I never *ever* dreamed I'd see in such, uh, mainstream circumstances. Then it goes on to give the date for the Toronto gig. Ok, so it's the venue's pixelboard, but still... Big smile at that -- nice reminder that in a few weeks I'll be seeing them for the first time. This I have been waiting for for 30 years. Woo hoo! (I'm sure it'll be mostly Computer World and TEE -- by far my two least favourite KW albums -- but with luck they'll do The Model or something else from Man Machine. And if I'm really lucky they'll play Autobahn and I'll be one happy camper! Any more of the stuff I like, i.e. from Radioactivity or before, is way too much to hope for ... so if it does happen it'll be sheer bonus.) [*] When I was a kid in the 60s, that strip of the Gardiner was all neon -- endless nifty neon animations, all different. Gaudy as hell, I'm sure my folks thought it, but being 8, I thought the drive along there after dark, as we were setting out for home, was one of the best parts of a trip to Toronto (we lived about 70 miles away, and such a trip was a Big Event in any case). Pixelboards are very samey in comparison -- sometimes technology is not an improvement. (Like, a couple of years later we had a big fat book called "The Way Things Work", that told about the inner secrets of everything from washing machines to jukeboxes to ballpoint pens. If there were a 2004 edition, most of the entries would be a single sentence: "It has a microprocessor in it." How much fun is that?) -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 2 00:48:47 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:48:47 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: Yeah, but No. 11 this morning. This sales ranking watching is so addictive! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Lee" To: Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:16 PM Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > Unfortunately you've dropped to #31, despite there being at least one > more order ;-) > While browsing through the main top 100 on Amazon I did notice Dr. Ali's > Nutritional Bible, is that anything to do with a certain bass player, > one wonders? > > Nick > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Ian Abrahams > > Sent: 01 April 2004 21:43 > > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:41 AM > > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > > > > >In the meantime, pre-orders on "Sonic Assassins" are doing very well > > (thanks folks!), yesterday we were in the Top 20 >Amazon > > pre-orders, just > > ahead of Julie Andrews and her autobiography! Bestselling > > book on Amazon > > with "Hawkwind" in >the title at the moment! > > > > And now No. 29 in the Amazon "hot-50-prerelease" chart! > > > > A quite chuffed Ian. > > > From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 2 01:00:49 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:00:49 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: Ah, belay that one, just moved up to number ten. Err, I'll shut-up now.... Ian :-))) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Abrahams" To: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:48 AM Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > Yeah, but No. 11 this morning. This sales ranking watching is so addictive! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nick Lee" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:16 PM > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > > Unfortunately you've dropped to #31, despite there being at least one > > more order ;-) > > While browsing through the main top 100 on Amazon I did notice Dr. Ali's > > Nutritional Bible, is that anything to do with a certain bass player, > > one wonders? > > > > Nick > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > > > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Ian Abrahams > > > Sent: 01 April 2004 21:43 > > > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > > > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:41 AM > > > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > > > > > > > >In the meantime, pre-orders on "Sonic Assassins" are doing very well > > > (thanks folks!), yesterday we were in the Top 20 >Amazon > > > pre-orders, just > > > ahead of Julie Andrews and her autobiography! Bestselling > > > book on Amazon > > > with "Hawkwind" in >the title at the moment! > > > > > > And now No. 29 in the Amazon "hot-50-prerelease" chart! > > > > > > A quite chuffed Ian. > > > > > > From erics at TELEPRES.COM Fri Apr 2 01:41:26 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:41:26 -0500 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: <010201c41877$d954ba80$fa23fea9@r1e1j2>; from mail@ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK on Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:00:49AM +0100 Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:00:49AM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: > Ah, belay that one, just moved up to number ten. Only two behind Harry Potter. Impressive ... most impressive. -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 2 01:51:16 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:51:16 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Siegerman" > On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:00:49AM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: > > Ah, belay that one, just moved up to number ten. > > Only two behind Harry Potter. Impressive ... most impressive. Probably tells you that these rankings are a bit hypothetical really, I'm not sure how they are worked out or what they mean. But now we are number 9.... Ian From bart at B-MOVIES.NL Fri Apr 2 03:15:52 2004 From: bart at B-MOVIES.NL (Bart Brugmans) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:15:52 +0200 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: <013201c4187e$e56eb440$fa23fea9@r1e1j2> Message-ID: I just ordered the book, and you're now an #8 ;-) Bart On 2 Apr 2004 at 7:51, Ian Abrahams wrote: Date sent: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:51:16 +0100 Send reply to: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List From: Ian Abrahams Subject: Re: [BOC-L] HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Siegerman" > > > > On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:00:49AM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: > > > Ah, belay that one, just moved up to number ten. > > > > Only two behind Harry Potter. Impressive ... most impressive. > > Probably tells you that these rankings are a bit hypothetical really, > I'm not sure how they are worked out or what they mean. But now we are > number 9.... > > Ian | Prive | Werk | Bart Brugmans | WISE Amsterdam | Willem van Abcoudeplein 13-I | Postbus 59636 | 3515 BX Utrecht | 1040 LC Amsterdam | 030-2763499 | 020-6126368 | bart at b-movies.nl | wiseamster at antenna.nl From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 2 10:17:05 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:17:05 +0100 Subject: Hawkwind in Germany In-Reply-To: bernhard.pospiech's message of Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:47:31 +0100 Message-ID: Bernhard, Any chance of an English traslation of the info for this event? Where is it? How might I fly to and travel to te event from Scotland? Are Hawkwind still playing it? Cheers Mike bernhard.pospiech writes: > Hi folks > > Here are some good news for the German Hawkwind fans > > BURG HERZBERG FESTIVAL, 15.07. - 18.07.2004 > > > With the following bands: > > Anekdoten, Anne Haigis, Birth Control, Farfarello & Nippi Noya, Guru > Guru, Hawkwind, Helmut Hattler, Karthago, Mark Gillespie, Mister > Quimby`s Beard, Nova Drive, Pothead, Ramses, Randy Hansen, Ronnie > Taheny, Sunya Beat, Sky`s Shadow, Trigon, Verspielte Zeit > > > http://www.burgherzberg-festival.de/Seiten/info.html > > > > > Cheers > Bernhard > From bernhard.pospiech at T-ONLINE.DE Fri Apr 2 10:28:26 2004 From: bernhard.pospiech at T-ONLINE.DE (bernhard.pospiech) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:28:26 +0200 Subject: Hawkwind in Germany In-Reply-To: <200404021517.i32FH5GS028142@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mike www.burgherzberg-festival.de You can find here an English page >Where is it? Its about 100 miles from Frankfurt (airport) Not easy to find >How might I fly to and travel to te event from Scotland? Best is to fly to Frankfurt and then travel by car >Are Hawkwind still playing it? They are still on the bill Would be great to meet some of you here Cheers Bernhard From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Fri Apr 2 10:32:31 2004 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:32:31 +0100 Subject: Hawkwind in Germany In-Reply-To: <200404021517.i32FH5GS028142@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: I'm strongly considering going to this one too. Gotta use up my Lufthansa Air Miles somehow! Nick > -----Original Message----- > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of M Holmes > Sent: 02 April 2004 16:17 > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: Hawkwind in Germany > > > Bernhard, > > Any chance of an English traslation of the info for this event? > > Where is it? How might I fly to and travel to te event from Scotland? > > Are Hawkwind still playing it? > > Cheers > > Mike > > > > bernhard.pospiech writes: > > > Hi folks > > > > Here are some good news for the German Hawkwind fans > > > > BURG HERZBERG FESTIVAL, 15.07. - 18.07.2004 > > > > > > With the following bands: > > > > Anekdoten, Anne Haigis, Birth Control, Farfarello & Nippi > Noya, Guru > > Guru, Hawkwind, Helmut Hattler, Karthago, Mark Gillespie, Mister > > Quimby`s Beard, Nova Drive, Pothead, Ramses, Randy Hansen, Ronnie > > Taheny, Sunya Beat, Sky`s Shadow, Trigon, Verspielte Zeit > > > > > > http://www.burgherzberg-festival.de/Seiten/info.html > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > Bernhard > > > From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 2 10:48:20 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:48:20 +0100 Subject: Hawkwind in Germany In-Reply-To: bernhard.pospiech's message of Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:28:26 +0200 Message-ID: bernhard.pospiech writes: > Hi Mike > > > > www.burgherzberg-festival.de > > You can find here an English page > > > > >Where is it? > Its about 100 miles from Frankfurt (airport) > Not easy to find > > > >How might I fly to and travel to te event from Scotland? > Best is to fly to Frankfurt and then travel by car car parking is OK at the event? No hassles such as at Glastonbury? FoFP From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 2 11:37:06 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:37:06 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Brugmans" To: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:15 AM Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > I just ordered the book, and you're now an #8 > ;-) > > Bart Thanks, Bart! Spent most of the day at number two, between Terry Prachett and Stephen King. I'm not sure it means too much, as I don't know how the rankings work, but isn't it fantastic that there is still so much enthusiasm out there for this great band! Ian From bernhard.pospiech at T-ONLINE.DE Fri Apr 2 11:49:50 2004 From: bernhard.pospiech at T-ONLINE.DE (bernhard.pospiech) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:49:50 +0200 Subject: Hawkwind in Germany In-Reply-To: <200404021548.i32FmKmw013019@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: >car parking is OK at the event? No hassles such as at Glastonbury? Absolutely no problem here Bernhard From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Fri Apr 2 11:54:43 2004 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:54:43 +0200 Subject: HW: Hawkwind in Germany Message-ID: Mike queries... >>How might I fly to and travel to te event from Scotland? >>Best is to fly to Frankfurt and then travel by car > >car parking is OK at the event? No hassles such as at Glastonbury? Here is an accounting of my experience at last year's event... http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue24/burgherz.html which should give some basic info. about how it works there. Not having ever been to Glasters, I can't say exactly how the two might compare, but maybe you can sense to 'mood' from my words. There are a couple inaccuracies in my review (which don't refer to any of these issues)...actually, they are that the Fudge *wasn't* the original, but 50:50 (which means their official website was lacking this basic sort of info., 'cause I specifically *looked* to confirm), and that Mick Brockett (while there and contributing some things), was *not* running the lightshow, which was (IIRC) the "Jen & Pogle" team (?). But I wasn't even bothered enough to even send in these corrections to Jerry...(journalistic) integrity-schmegrity. (Oh, and of course, my statement that this was the very last Herzberg event was a bit premature. But from what it looks, Kalle Becker , is (as reported last year) no longer running the festival himself, but rather it seems some guy named Andi (Schnell?) has taken over to 'save the day.' Any specific questions about the location/protocol/etc., feel free to ask. Grakkl (FAA) P.S. Should we try to put together our own little boc-l community camping zone at the fest? It seemed pretty much a free-for-all, but then those that arrive 'late' (Sat. noon), end up way-the-hell over the hill. Maybe if an early arriver or two staked out a bit of space near the center of activity, all of us to gravitate there and fill in the gaps? Just a thought. P.P.S Ole Lukkoye will play too...cool. I passed on seeing them earlier this year in southern Germany. P.P.P.S. The fact that the grounds were really dirty last year I think was inevitable given how miserable last summer was in this part of the world. Even if we're stuck again in the same corn field, it can't possibly be as dusty as last year...some people probably couldn't even recognize their cars afterwards! From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Fri Apr 2 11:59:28 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:59:28 -0500 Subject: OFF: Further details on the '5' v. future/now In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From his news list. It's good to see he's at least jazzed about touring. the DVD itself sounds rather exciting, too. Has an appearance by Lemmy (there, slight BOC-L related content!:) ) J ----- Sonic Revolution is a concert DVD with a pile of bonus materials. One of the bonus parts happens to be a 30-minute documentary that was created solely for television broadcast and has since been hailed as a nice piece of work, which we're glad about. There's also behind-the-scenes and home movie footage with commentary from Dennis, Michael and me. And a few choice pieces of archival footage, some of which appears in edits in ATT, and, which has not been seen before in its entirety. When we signed on with our distributor, we had no knowledge of the pending Future/Now Films release date. Although we requested time and again to be kept in the loop, they refused to tell us if and when their movie was going to be released. As I've said, we wanted Future/Now to include our concert as a complement to theirs. The assumption that we have timed our concert DVD to somehow conflict with theirs is just incorrect. It is also quite an opportunistic position for Future/Now and Becky Tyner to take in order to undermine what could have been a happy day for us all. It's left me and my band mates to respond defensively. What happened in London last year was a ball. We're looking forward to doing it again all over the world this summer on tour. Wayne From chrizdove at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK Fri Apr 2 12:16:13 2004 From: chrizdove at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK (Chris Dove) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:16:13 -0500 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: I have ordered the book and checked Amazon Number TWO!!!! From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 2 12:27:15 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:27:15 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Dove" To: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:16 PM Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > I have ordered the book and checked Amazon Number TWO!!!! > Don't forget, thats No.2 in "Pre-Releases" only, but still most encouraging I'd say! Thanks for the order, Chris. Ian From erics at TELEPRES.COM Fri Apr 2 14:51:59 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:51:59 -0500 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: <013201c4187e$e56eb440$fa23fea9@r1e1j2>; from mail@ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK on Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:51:16AM +0100 Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:51:16AM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: > Probably tells you that these rankings are a bit hypothetical really, I'm > not sure how they are worked out or what they mean. But now we are number > 9.... On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 10:15:52AM +0200, Bart Brugmans wrote: > I just ordered the book, and you're now an #8 I suspect what it means is that not very many people in the UK are preordering books this week :-/ (I could find no such page on amazon.com, only on .co.uk; so I'm guessing that only the latter site's stats are considered.) -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 2 15:34:10 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 21:34:10 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Siegerman" To: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:51:16AM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: > > Probably tells you that these rankings are a bit hypothetical really, I'm > > not sure how they are worked out or what they mean. But now we are number > > 9.... > > On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 10:15:52AM +0200, Bart Brugmans wrote: > > I just ordered the book, and you're now an #8 > > I suspect what it means is that not very many people in the UK > are preordering books this week :-/ (I could find no such page > on amazon.com, only on .co.uk; so I'm guessing that only the > latter site's stats are considered.) Perhaps, but its probably a concentrated burst of orders that have created a "spike", but very useful in marketing terms so Im pretty chuffed - ought to be in PR! Ian From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Fri Apr 2 18:52:29 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:52:29 -0500 Subject: Hawkwind in Germany Message-ID: Me, too ... if I can convince my better half that she won't mind listening to a bunch of hippie bands (she was surprised to find out that "oh, they're the band that does THAT song" when I played "Silver Machine" ... but she has 4 or 5 albums in her collection featuring ex-Hawkwind members [Motorhead of course, New Model Army, a Philip Boa album produced by Dave Anderson, Portishead, etc.], so go figure). If Monster Magnet were going to be there, I'd have no problem at all convincing her to go ... -Doug jasret at mindspring.com P.S. Is Randy Hansen the same Hendrix-wannabe of "Champagne and Cocaine" fame?!? On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:32:31 +0100, Nick Lee wrote: >I'm strongly considering going to this one too. >Gotta use up my Lufthansa Air Miles somehow! > >Nick > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >> [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of M Holmes >> Sent: 02 April 2004 16:17 >> To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >> Subject: Re: Hawkwind in Germany >> >> >> Bernhard, >> >> Any chance of an English traslation of the info for this event? >> >> Where is it? How might I fly to and travel to te event from Scotland? >> >> Are Hawkwind still playing it? >> >> Cheers >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> bernhard.pospiech writes: >> >> > Hi folks >> > >> > Here are some good news for the German Hawkwind fans >> > >> > BURG HERZBERG FESTIVAL, 15.07. - 18.07.2004 >> > >> > >> > With the following bands: >> > >> > Anekdoten, Anne Haigis, Birth Control, Farfarello & Nippi >> Noya, Guru >> > Guru, Hawkwind, Helmut Hattler, Karthago, Mark Gillespie, Mister >> > Quimby`s Beard, Nova Drive, Pothead, Ramses, Randy Hansen, Ronnie >> > Taheny, Sunya Beat, Sky`s Shadow, Trigon, Verspielte Zeit >> > >> > >> > http://www.burgherzberg-festival.de/Seiten/info.html >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Cheers >> > Bernhard >> > >> From michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU Fri Apr 2 20:04:37 2004 From: michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU (dont be a sheep) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:34:37 +0930 Subject: Hawkwind in Germany Message-ID: ahhhh if she needs convincing then leave her at home to clean the dishes and wash your jox. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Pearson" To: Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Hawkwind in Germany > Me, too ... if I can convince my better half that she won't mind listening > to a bunch of hippie bands (she was surprised to find out that "oh, > they're the band that does THAT song" when I played "Silver Machine" ... > but she has 4 or 5 albums in her collection featuring ex-Hawkwind members > [Motorhead of course, New Model Army, a Philip Boa album produced by Dave > Anderson, Portishead, etc.], so go figure). If Monster Magnet were going > to be there, I'd have no problem at all convincing her to go ... > > -Doug > jasret at mindspring.com > > P.S. Is Randy Hansen the same Hendrix-wannabe of "Champagne and Cocaine" > fame?!? > > On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:32:31 +0100, Nick Lee wrote: > >I'm strongly considering going to this one too. > >Gotta use up my Lufthansa Air Miles somehow! > > > >Nick > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > >> [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of M Holmes > >> Sent: 02 April 2004 16:17 > >> To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > >> Subject: Re: Hawkwind in Germany > >> > >> > >> Bernhard, > >> > >> Any chance of an English traslation of the info for this event? > >> > >> Where is it? How might I fly to and travel to te event from Scotland? > >> > >> Are Hawkwind still playing it? > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> > >> > >> bernhard.pospiech writes: > >> > >> > Hi folks > >> > > >> > Here are some good news for the German Hawkwind fans > >> > > >> > BURG HERZBERG FESTIVAL, 15.07. - 18.07.2004 > >> > > >> > > >> > With the following bands: > >> > > >> > Anekdoten, Anne Haigis, Birth Control, Farfarello & Nippi > >> Noya, Guru > >> > Guru, Hawkwind, Helmut Hattler, Karthago, Mark Gillespie, Mister > >> > Quimby`s Beard, Nova Drive, Pothead, Ramses, Randy Hansen, Ronnie > >> > Taheny, Sunya Beat, Sky`s Shadow, Trigon, Verspielte Zeit > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.burgherzberg-festival.de/Seiten/info.html > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Cheers > >> > Bernhard > >> > > >> > From erics at TELEPRES.COM Fri Apr 2 20:42:16 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:42:16 -0500 Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? In-Reply-To: ; from jasret@MINDSPRING.COM on Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 06:28:53PM -0500 Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 06:28:53PM -0500, Doug Pearson wrote: > The '5 > smoked like no others (as I mentioned in the previous email). So, for someone whose total knowledge of the MC5 comes from this thread ... where should I start? -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From Andreas.Stuewe at T-ONLINE.DE Sat Apr 3 03:37:02 2004 From: Andreas.Stuewe at T-ONLINE.DE (Andreas Stuewe) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:37:02 +0200 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: Hi Ian, just ordered the book from Amazon.de (German version) as a "Pre-release". I?m looking VERY MUCH forward to it. The passages of the book which you gave me to read last December during our breakfast I think were amazing. If the rest of the book is only half as good it will be the definitive book about Hawkwind. Andreas > > Don't forget, thats No.2 in "Pre-Releases" only, but still most encouraging > I'd say! Thanks for the order, Chris. > > Ian From hawkswede at TELIA.COM Sat Apr 3 09:15:33 2004 From: hawkswede at TELIA.COM (Hawkswede) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 16:15:33 +0200 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: Hi there! Just found the book on Amazon.co.uk as well. Is there any info available? There?s also another new book" Saga of "Hawkwind", The ~ Carol Clerk -- (Hardcover - September 13, 2004)". What do we know about this book? All the best from Sweden Hawkswede > Hi Ian, > > just ordered the book from Amazon.de (German version) as a "Pre-release". I?m > looking VERY MUCH forward to it. The passages of the book which you gave me to > read last December during our breakfast I think were amazing. If the rest of > the book is only half as good it will be the definitive book about Hawkwind. > > Andreas > > > > > Don't forget, thats No.2 in "Pre-Releases" only, but still most encouraging > > I'd say! Thanks for the order, Chris. > > > > Ian > From jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM Sat Apr 3 09:32:32 2004 From: jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM (Jerry Kranitz) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:32:32 -0500 Subject: OFF: Aural Innovations Radio: New Space Rock & Drool Trough shows Message-ID: http://Aural-Innovations.com Announcements (April 3, 2004): We've just uploaded new shows from Aural Innovations Space Rock Radio (show #102) and Drool Trough (show #7). Our shows broadcast in RealAudio and can be streamed or downloaded. You can go directly to the Radio Shows page at http://aural-innovations.com/radio/radio.html. See the playlist below. [Almost] New in the Aural Innovations Mail Order Catalog: Space Mirrors - "The Darker Side of Art" Monstrous cosmic Space Rock on this brand new co-release from Andy G's Dead Earnest label and Atomic Age Records. I don't have them in hand yet but the CD's are in route from Space Mirrors honcho Alisa Coral from Russia. So drop me a note at jkranitz at aural-innovations.com to reserve a copy and I'll let you know when they arrive. Check out the Space Mirrors web site at www.spacemirrors.com Aural Innovations Space Rock Radio (show #102) Space Mirrors - "Pale Ghosts" (from The Darker Side Of Art) Jet Jaguar - "Future Martyr On Supersonic Waves" (from Billion Year Spree) Greg Segal - "Black Cavern River" (from An Awareness Of Frameworks) The Urania News - "Grip" (from Reform) Kurt Michaels - "You Don't Say" (from Inner Worlds - part one) DOUG WALKER TESTIMONIAL SPACE ROCK FESTIVAL SET Alien Planetscapes - "Radiation King" (from Life On Earth) Architectural Metaphor - "The Maker" (from Not Of This Earth: Sci-Fi Movies Tribute) Scattered Planets - "Das Andere Idyl" (from Andromeda Keg Party) Church of Hed - "Rock & Roll Song" (from Church of Hed) Ozric Tentacles - "Toka Tola" (from Spirals In Hyperspace) The Pyramids Of SNAFU - "Beyond Belief" (from Alternative Present) Moon Violet - "The Sun The Moon And 11 Stars" (from The Moon Drips Into A Clock) Points Of Friction - "In The Realm Of Nothing Whatever" (from Sackcloth and Ashes) Magnasparagus - "Turtle Stew" (from One More Frog) Drool Trough (show #7) Drool Trough is an all genres show featuring cool music from the underground. We created Drool Trough for two reasons. First, we receive far more submissions at Aural Innovations than we can reasonably have time to review. And, second, we get a lot of cool music that doesn't fit neatly into our more theme oriented radio shows. Anything is game for Drool Trough, and from one track to the next you will hear completely different sounds and styles, all from homemade musicians and teeny weeny but ultra fiesty labels. Hands Of Time - "The Fish Song" (from I Am A Hideous Monster) Arms Of Kismet - "Karma Never Forgets" (from Eponymous) Greg Segal - "Moist Earth" (from An Awareness Of Frameworks) The Floydian Propulsion Project - "Two Suns In The Sunset (Electropsychedeliatric Blitzkrieg) Mix" (from The Floydian Propulsion Project) Romislokus - "Being In A Plastic Box" (from Trans Aviation Pilots) Thraft King - "Space Stoned Thing" (from The Rockypee) NYC Reggae Collective - "Nuclear War" (from AlieNation) The Stoneage Hearts - "Kimberly" (from Turn On With The Stoneage Hearts) Ground Level Organization - "Flying Pasty" (from The Ample Sampler) Powerflow - "Memories Of You" (from Six Tracks Of Headfoam) Art Of Burning Water - "The Well (because we are)" (from The Combined Stupidity Of Spiteful Men) Chris Snidow - "Orleans" (from ?Daughter Of God' Joan Of Arc) Kim Fowley - "The Dog Next Door" (from Adventures In Dreamland) Green Circles - "Knee Jerk Reaction" (from Brass Knobs, Bevelled Edges (And In 23 Different Positions) Joshua Charles - "Bees ?n Chocolate" (from Being In The Energy Funnel) Madeline Minx - "Unleash" (from Unleash Your Soul) Dreadnaught - "Fanfare For A Losing Team" (from Musica en Flagrante) The Flexible Flyers - "Church Of Dreams" (from Church Of Dreams) Anthony Marcus - "Vertigo" (from Distant Lands) Sven & Karen - "Take Me There PT.II" (from Here We Are, There We Were) http://Aural-Innovations.com From chrisr at TIAC.NET Sat Apr 3 09:55:44 2004 From: chrisr at TIAC.NET (Chris Raymond) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:55:44 -0500 Subject: Off: Hillage In-Reply-To: <003a01c418f1$dad51880$fa23fea9@r1e1j2> Message-ID: Off topic post: I just noticed that Steve Hillage and Miquette Giraudy play on one track off of the Ozric CD that was just released. Chris R. From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Sat Apr 3 10:07:09 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:07:09 -0500 Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? In-Reply-To: <20040402204216.B19611@telepres.com> Message-ID: >So, for someone whose total knowledge of the MC5 comes from this >thread ... where should I start? www.mc5.org is a link gateway to a buncha good pieces, particularly the series of articles done by Perfect Sound Forever (www.furious.com/perfect). also, if you go to alive-total energy's website, there's a page about the MC5 archive series they were doing, the liner notes by former manager/guru John Sinclair are up there (as well as one by Wayne). There are several interviews at i94bar.com with dennis thomspon, wayne kramer and michael davis. Hope that helps. Jason From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Apr 3 10:21:33 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 16:21:33 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: Amazon have, I'm told, been supplied with cover jpeg and blurb, so that should be updated quite soon now. Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hawkswede" To: Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 3:15 PM Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > Hi there! > > Just found the book on Amazon.co.uk as well. Is there any info available? > > There?s also another new book" Saga of "Hawkwind", The ~ Carol Clerk -- > (Hardcover - September 13, 2004)". > > What do we know about this book? > > All the best from Sweden > > Hawkswede > > > > > > Hi Ian, > > > > just ordered the book from Amazon.de (German version) as a "Pre-release". > I?m > > looking VERY MUCH forward to it. The passages of the book which you gave > me to > > read last December during our breakfast I think were amazing. If the rest > of > > the book is only half as good it will be the definitive book about > Hawkwind. > > > > Andreas > > > > > > > > Don't forget, thats No.2 in "Pre-Releases" only, but still most > encouraging > > > I'd say! Thanks for the order, Chris. > > > > > > Ian > > > From mcintyre at PA.MSU.EDU Sat Apr 3 17:01:30 2004 From: mcintyre at PA.MSU.EDU (John McIntyre) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:01:30 -0500 Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? In-Reply-To: <20040402204216.B19611@telepres.com> Message-ID: Eric Siegerman wrote: >So, for someone whose total knowledge of the MC5 comes from this >thread ... where should I start? > > Kick Out The Jams. If you don't like that, there's no need in going any further. Absolutely, positively, do not start with Back In The USA. That album is a textbook example of the difference a producer can make, in this case for the worse. John McIntyre mcintyre at pa.msu.edu From GHawkwind63 at AOL.COM Sat Apr 3 17:14:27 2004 From: GHawkwind63 at AOL.COM (Michael Gee) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:14:27 EST Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? Message-ID: What are the Jams? From paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK Sat Apr 3 17:35:21 2004 From: paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK (pauleatonjones) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:35:21 +0100 Subject: Fwd: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: Have a look at the Illuminatus trilogy!!!! Paul > From: Michael Gee > Date: Sat Apr 3, 2004 23:14:27 Europe/London > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? > Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > > What are the Jams? > From paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK Sat Apr 3 17:46:09 2004 From: paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK (pauleatonjones) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:46:09 +0100 Subject: Fwd: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: Addendum: The Illuminati refer to them as The JUSTIFIED ANCIENTS of MU. Mu being a mythical island chain lying to the east of eurasia. The 'polar' opposite being the equally mythical atlantis. Yet more hippie/new-age/crystal, tree-hugging nonsense. > From: Michael Gee > Date: Sat Apr 3, 2004 23:14:27 Europe/London > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? > Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > > What are the Jams? > From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Sat Apr 3 17:58:53 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:58:53 -0500 Subject: BOC/OFF: the Jams,. kicked out or otherwise In-Reply-To: <406F343A.8010609@pa.msu.edu> Message-ID: >Kick Out The Jams. If you don't like that, there's no need in going any >further. Absolutely, positively, do not start with Back In The USA. >That album is a textbook example of the difference a producer can make, >in this case for the worse. I second that. And if you're totalllllly taken by the 5's brand of attack, the alive-total energy archive series next. Though the "Human Being Lawnmower: the maddest and the baddest of the MC5" is a good comp of that material -- with neat liner-note, describing the difference between punks and the MC5 (or at least John Sinclair's understanding of it). The jams, for the 5, -- I'd say be 'props'. in the context of The original phrase, "Kick out the jams or get off the stage", i'd say they're equal to lettin' everything go, do IT full throttle or not at all. j From horse at DARKSTAR.UK.NET Sat Apr 3 18:25:58 2004 From: horse at DARKSTAR.UK.NET (Horse) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:25:58 +0100 Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? In-Reply-To: <1a5.217be0b8.2da09143@aol.com> Message-ID: On 3 Apr 2004 at 17:14, Michael Gee wrote: > What are the Jams? Justified Ancients of Mu-Mu :) Horse From soltanic at YAHOO.COM Sat Apr 3 20:19:46 2004 From: soltanic at YAHOO.COM (Allen Shaw) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:19:46 -0800 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: <00f001c4198f$58f845a0$fa23fea9@r1e1j2> Message-ID: It would be nice if Brian Tawn would mention the book in a newsletter or something. That would also spread the word. --- Ian Abrahams wrote: > Amazon have, I'm told, been supplied with cover jpeg > and blurb, so that > should be updated quite soon now. > > Ian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hawkswede" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 3:15 PM > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > > Hi there! > > > > Just found the book on Amazon.co.uk as well. Is > there any info available? > > > > There?s also another new book" Saga of > "Hawkwind", The ~ Carol Clerk -- > > (Hardcover - September 13, 2004)". > > > > What do we know about this book? > > > > All the best from Sweden > > > > Hawkswede > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ian, > > > > > > just ordered the book from Amazon.de (German > version) as a > "Pre-release". > > I?m > > > looking VERY MUCH forward to it. The passages of > the book which you gave > > me to > > > read last December during our breakfast I think > were amazing. If the > rest > > of > > > the book is only half as good it will be the > definitive book about > > Hawkwind. > > > > > > Andreas > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget, thats No.2 in "Pre-Releases" > only, but still most > > encouraging > > > > I'd say! Thanks for the order, Chris. > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sun Apr 4 12:15:48 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:15:48 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: Thats a good point - I kept away from contacting Brian, Trevor Hughes and Adrian Parr simply because they are the definitive voices of Hawkwind historians and I wanted to go my own way and form my own views on things - for the same reason I didn't seek out and read "Born to Go", though I've read Kris' book many times in the past. But Brian, Trevor and Adrian are properly acknowledged in the text for the immense work they've done over the years in maintaing an archive of HW writings. Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Shaw" To: Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 2:19 AM Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > It would be nice if Brian Tawn would mention > the book in a newsletter or something. That > would also spread the word. > > --- Ian Abrahams > wrote: > > Amazon have, I'm told, been supplied with cover jpeg > > and blurb, so that > > should be updated quite soon now. > > > > Ian > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hawkswede" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 3:15 PM > > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > > > > > Hi there! > > > > > > Just found the book on Amazon.co.uk as well. Is > > there any info available? > > > > > > There?s also another new book" Saga of > > "Hawkwind", The ~ Carol Clerk -- > > > (Hardcover - September 13, 2004)". > > > > > > What do we know about this book? > > > > > > All the best from Sweden > > > > > > Hawkswede > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ian, > > > > > > > > just ordered the book from Amazon.de (German > > version) as a > > "Pre-release". > > > I?m > > > > looking VERY MUCH forward to it. The passages of > > the book which you gave > > > me to > > > > read last December during our breakfast I think > > were amazing. If the > > rest > > > of > > > > the book is only half as good it will be the > > definitive book about > > > Hawkwind. > > > > > > > > Andreas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget, thats No.2 in "Pre-Releases" > > only, but still most > > > encouraging > > > > > I'd say! Thanks for the order, Chris. > > > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > From deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Sun Apr 4 18:23:19 2004 From: deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (deadearnest) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:23:19 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: I'll sell it at CD Services if someone will contact me to tell me where I can get it from!!! Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Shaw To: Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 2:19 AM Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > It would be nice if Brian Tawn would mention > the book in a newsletter or something. That > would also spread the word. > > --- Ian Abrahams > wrote: > > Amazon have, I'm told, been supplied with cover jpeg > > and blurb, so that > > should be updated quite soon now. > > > > Ian > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hawkswede" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 3:15 PM > > Subject: Re: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins > > > > > > > Hi there! > > > > > > Just found the book on Amazon.co.uk as well. Is > > there any info available? > > > > > > There?s also another new book" Saga of > > "Hawkwind", The ~ Carol Clerk -- > > > (Hardcover - September 13, 2004)". > > > > > > What do we know about this book? > > > > > > All the best from Sweden > > > > > > Hawkswede > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ian, > > > > > > > > just ordered the book from Amazon.de (German > > version) as a > > "Pre-release". > > > I?m > > > > looking VERY MUCH forward to it. The passages of > > the book which you gave > > > me to > > > > read last December during our breakfast I think > > were amazing. If the > > rest > > > of > > > > the book is only half as good it will be the > > definitive book about > > > Hawkwind. > > > > > > > > Andreas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget, thats No.2 in "Pre-Releases" > > only, but still most > > > encouraging > > > > > I'd say! Thanks for the order, Chris. > > > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Sun Apr 4 18:30:30 2004 From: deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (deadearnest) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:30:30 +0100 Subject: Hillage Message-ID: yes - and it's both a stunning track and album -already selling rather well. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Raymond To: Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 3:55 PM Subject: Off: Hillage > Off topic post: > > I just noticed that Steve Hillage and Miquette Giraudy play on one track off > of the Ozric CD that was just released. > Chris R. From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Mon Apr 5 06:18:20 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:18:20 +0100 Subject: Hawkwind in Germany In-Reply-To: Doug Pearson's message of Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:52:29 -0500 Message-ID: Doug Pearson writes: > Me, too ... if I can convince my better half that she won't mind listening > to a bunch of hippie bands After ten hours pressing the friggin' redial button trying to get Glastonbury tickets, we failed. What a bloody shambles. Eavis was trying to cut out the touts by using just one company, but they had no phone queueing system in place and their web site constantly fell over. All he's achieved is to convince me that the touts get paid for doing a professional job. Eavis should either contract the work to them; charge the price at which the demand equals supply (I'd guess around 200 quid but that'd raise about 10 times as much for charity); or just take everyone's name over a month and then do a lottery. Anyway, looks like for the first time in a couple of decades I'll be missing a Glastonbury. With no Hawkfest and Hawkwind presumably not doing the Derby Bikers fest, it seems we should look elsewhere. There's a direct flight to Frankfurt from Edinburgh and so this one does look very feasible. Are there still tickets left? Do we need to get special tickets for bringing a car? What's the cost of car hire in Germany? If we can get a bunch of list Hawkfans there, we should try to get an encampment going... FoFP From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Mon Apr 5 08:19:19 2004 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:19:19 +0200 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: Andreas offers... >just ordered the book from Amazon.de (German version) as a "Pre-release". >I?m looking VERY MUCH forward to it. The passages of the book which you >gave me to read last December during our breakfast I think were amazing. >If the rest of the book is only half as good it will be the definitive >book about Hawkwind. German version?? Really, was this somehow part of the 'deal' that you got, Ian? BTW, *did* you have some sort of deal (i.e., advance and the like) to write such a book? How does that even work? No need to publicly divulge anything you feel isn't anyone's else (darn) business. (I just ask 'cause my sister-in-law gets contracts to write 'small-run' books and was wondering how it works, though from what I'm reading yours isn't so 'small-run' if it's so high on the preorder rankings!... and I thought maybe someday I could do a 'reference' book on global space-rock, in the vein of the Freeman's krautrock guide and Chris Williams' excellent UK-Psych book, so just a one-stop-shopping alternative to their works, but was never sure anyone would ever care enough to have one (in print), given what one can now learn online, e.g. in the virtual pages of A-I.com and the like.) Anyway, this Saf Publishing...they are 'part of the system' (global distribution, connected to some sort of major company?) or are they like a true 'indie label' (to use that analogy...does it work for publishing?)? A lot (or heaps?!) of indie music goes through Amazon these days, yeah, so not so sure how to tell. But anyway, German version? Who did the translation? And how much does the Sanskrit version cost? Any plans to have it translated into Semiphore? Morse Code? Aldis Lamp? :) OK, maybe not, but how 'bout an 'audio book' version for those with failing eyesight (some of us aren't so young any more) - maybe that Matthew Wright dude could do the reading? Crikey...now which version do I buy? How many pages is it? Grakkl (FAA)...who might possibly be looking for something to 'do' in year 2005, sadly back in the US*, while waiting for Germany to finally push through the new Zuwanderungsgesetz that would allow scientists to have immediate rights to unconditional residency, which is now seemingly held up in the Bundestag by issues related to tracking the movement of terrorists, made even more urgent by incidents like the Madrid bombing ...sigh. (But at least they're considering something of the sort, which is more than I can say for Switzerland, who have the opinion that I am not even physically *here* right now from an 'immigration' perspective.) *unless I go to Canada, who is the only country right now *lowering* their standards for getting in, from what I can tell... From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Mon Apr 5 09:21:50 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:21:50 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind in Germany In-Reply-To: Henderson Keith's message of Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:54:43 +0200 Message-ID: Henderson Keith writes: > Here is an accounting of my experience at last year's event... > http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue24/burgherz.html > which should give some basic info. about how it works there. Very useful. Thanks Keith, and you've made me very jealous through your description of Nektar's set. > Not having ever been to Glasters, I can't say exactly how the two might > compare, but maybe you can sense to 'mood' from my words. Smaller I'd guess, and a tad less commercial. At Glastonbury, you pack for the day when you leave your tent. From parts of the site, you couldn't even see it with a telescope. > Any specific questions about the location/protocol/etc., feel free to ask. What's the deal on camping? Are cars separate or parked next to tents as at Hawkfest? Are fires permitted in the evenings? Are there larger communal fires? > P.S. Should we try to put together our own little boc-l community camping > zone at the fest? It seemed pretty much a free-for-all, but then those that > arrive 'late' (Sat. noon), end up way-the-hell over the hill. Maybe if an > early arriver or two staked out a bit of space near the center of activity, > all of us to gravitate there and fill in the gaps? Just a thought. Sounds like a good plan, though attempts at landlording generally fail when the space gets limited - at Glastonbury someone camped on the ash of our fireplace and then someone camped such that contortionism talent was required to get out of the tent. Experience says that attempts to stake out sites mean moving farther away to start with, but I haven't been to this festie and will bow to greater wisdom. I'm generally in favour of trying to camp together. It does mean that we'll likely need a flag or some identifying marker for the rest of us to find the site. FoFP From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Mon Apr 5 10:39:55 2004 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:55 +0200 Subject: HW: Monster Magnet, other rubbish, usw... Message-ID: OK, here's a 'catch-all' post, which I prefer for some cruel 'thread-busting' reason, because (I guess) I'm too lazy to call up the 'reply' or 'compose new message' screen five times in one day. And I'm x-posting here between boc-l and Hawkwind-Yahoo, which may very well be a violation of netiquette, but I can't even remember who was asking about what in which list, so, maybe enough my post here is of sufficient interest to all parties who frequent them separately, and not so much an annoyance to those to frequent *both.* And I apologize for writing such a long introduction with no actual content...the person who suggested I do this in advance has just been sacked. And now the person who did the sacking himself has just been sacked. So...anyway, where was I? Oh, yeah, on Saturday, I saw Monster Magnet in Fribourg, Switzerland, which I write in the "French" way in order to avoid confusion with the larger town of Freiburg, Germany, which is also not so far away from here. And plus, the signs there have French given first, and German below, which would seem to indicate that it's a Francophone city first and foremost, but really it lies exactly on the so-called Roeschtigraben that separates the two languages/cultures (ignoring the Italian part south of the Alps for the moment). The club (Fri-Son) I had never been to before...it was your standard old converted-warehouse, a completely featureless rectangular box of a place, where one feels perfectly free to dump their used beer cups (and the beer too, if they've had one too many already) on the floor, as well as lit cigarettes, etc. Or fling the occasion thing (or person) toward the stage during the performance (Dave nearly got clubbed by a plastic water bottle...must have been a Cleveland Browns fan). Anyway, Monster Magnet rocked...this was my third MM concert, the first being as warmup for (the f*cking awful) Korn (we left after two songs), and then as headliners in Columbus, where the sound was terrible IIRC (the Newport is awfully echo-y) but the band was solid. Scott H. has already posted reviews (and interesting backstage commentary) on A-I.com about shows earlier in the tour, so I can say that the set *still* seems to be largely unchanged (Evil (is Going On) still not thrown in, sadly). But no matter how tiresome it must be to play the same songs every night ad infinitum, Dave and crew don't seem to be losing any enthusiasm, that's for sure. And the crowd was really pretty crazy...about as 'energetic' as those days in the late 80s when moshing was still sorta new and I was seeing bands like Jane's Addiction, Danzig, and Slayer (with Motorhead in the middle slot of a triple bill). European crowds are more 'knowledgable' fans (and with longer memories) it seems to me...I wonder if MM is already half-forgotten in the states (since their last MTV showing was how many years ago now?)? I mean, when they launched into "Supercruel," the crowd went half-nuts and knew the song intimately like it was their biggest hit from past years...and the album's like a grand total of six weeks old. And I doubt that song has even been on the radio here (but then I've never even turned on the radio since I moved here, so I have no idea really), because I assume the "Unbroken" (Hotel Baby) song would have been the obvious first choice for air-time. So obviously, (nearly) everyone there had the new album already and 'learned' all the new stuff...impressive. For myself, this album continues to grow on me, with the huge "Radiation Day" being really one of their best moments ever. It worked great live as well, as you might imagine. The encore was (happily) still made up of Calvert's "The Right Stuff" and a 20-minute "Spine of God." Hmmmm... while it was nice to hear this oldie (SoG) featured so prominently, it was a little odd for them to 'drag' it out soooo long, and esp. as a final encore. For 70 minutes, they'd blasted non-stop through all their best-known high-energy stuff from Dopes to present. Everybody was totally drained, since they hadn't given anyone much of a 'break' throughout...and then they do this thing where Dave rants on and on about something (I forget what) with just 15 seconds here and there of the heavy riff thrown in. Might have worked nicely at 12 minutes thrown into the middle of the set for a 'rest,' but it kinda made for an anticlimactic finish ('denouement' I suppose I should say!). Oh well, if they'd left the stage after The Right Stuff, I woulda been completely happy, so I won't complain. That said, the only jamming they'd done thus far had been "Dinosaur Vacume" so to warrant any thought of 'space-rock-ness' they needed to go on a bit at least once. Now...um...the idea of Hawkwind touring with some other as-yet-unidentified band (whether MM or not...and I assume *not*)...when I posted about this idea last year following Hawkfest, I said that the suggestion made to me involved only bands of similarly 'advanced' age, which immediately made 'newbies' like MM invalid (though they have a 'Best of...' collection out already...but still). I guess since there's still no announcement of such a 'double' headlining tour and now we have 'solo' minitours of the UK and two festival performances on the bill for summer, then maybe this whole plan has followed by the wayside (?). Which if so, it would *still* be interesting to hear who it was *supposed* to be, if Colin (or whoever) was willing to now divulge that info. But, of course (!) (in contrast to the suggestion I made above) MM is a far bigger name in America than Hawkwind has been in at least 25 years (and maybe ever?). But it (a support slot by HW, I mean) would be helpful to HW's bottom line I think, as there are certainly quite a number of younger folks that either have no clue about HW, or maybe just know the name from either Brainstorm or Right Stuff, and if just a few of them 'caught onto' HW by actually seeing them live to finalize that connection, then you might have a bunch of people that end up snatching up an entire catalog of old HW works (that is, the ones that actually exist in the marketplace and can be found in shops or online dealers of any note). But I wonder if it might not just be too much touring/travel to go out with MM, who would play *many* cities in a short time, and of course, the US and Canada are big freaking countries (esp. from a European/UK perspective). For that reason, I think it would have to be maybe just a limited no. of dates over maybe a two week period or something, to really work. On the new Ozrics disc...again, Scott H. has a nice detailed review up on A-I.com. And I saw Andy Gee posted his favorable reponse here. I'm still pondering whether I can deal with the lack of real drums on many of the tracks. I guess it was made kinda like Church of HW in a way, if Eddie did much of it by himself at home (?). It reminded me a little of "Curious Corn" (was it?) in that some techno-ish elements from their alter-ego Eat Static were feeding back into the parent band. But anyway, yeah, Hillage and Giraudy appear briefly (track 7)...it seems that Hillage (from 'sound' alone) add in the textural "whale-sound" delay-guitar bits, whereas the solo at the end was probably still Eddie. But actually, there are other tracks here that sound like Hillage's influence is there in the studio somewhere. I was surprised when I finally looked closer at the liner notes that I hadn't already heard him on earlier songs. They're touring now, but not down this far south (in the list of dates that I saw. Interesting that they're on Magna Carta now...a label known only for 'cookie-cutter' prog-metal bands as far as I know. BTW, has a label been anounced for 'Take me to your Leader' yet? And a release date? There were ideas/rumors put forth recently I think, but nothing official? I know, I know...when it's official it will appear on www.hawkwind.com. If everything we *wanted* know was put up there, then lists such as these wouldn't exist. :) In case anybody gives a crap...I went to visit the HR Giger Museum in Gruyeres, which is not far from Fribourg, and is more famous for cheese than for one man's crazed imagination. It's a cool place, as is the old castle just a short walk away (and you can visit both for 14 CHF, which is a pretty good deal in this terribly expensive country), though they don't let you take photos/video inside. For krautrock aficionadoes, there was a few pieces credited (or co-credited) to Walter Wegmueller (including some Tarot designs, that WW was famous for, along with his double LP of the same name). And HRGiger was also apparently involved with another "Cosmick Courier" veteran Sergius Golowin back in those days. I'll have to read more into that in the biog. book I bought there, to see how much he was involved in that old movement...I think Golowin worked on the soundtrack to a Giger film (that I was unfamiliar with) Necromonicon. Anybody heard/seen that? (I assume this is not-at-all related to the krautrock band Necronomicon that released "Tips zum Selbstmord" (Tips for Suicide).) The funniest thing about the Giger museum is the Giger-Bar next door, which is designed like the inside of the Alien spacecraft and has chairs that fit the 'pattern' (though they are proportioned for humans to sit in). And I won't go into much detail about the personal drawings inside the 'adult' room...interesting things going inside that man's mind! Funny that he did some things that juxtaposed Swiss iconic imagery (apparently during the 700th anniversary of the country in 1991) with crazy alien-pseudo-sexual creatures. I didn't see any original album artwork though, which was rather odd...some things that looked quite a lot (stylistically) like ELP's Brain Salad Surgery, and those warty dudes that were on that one Magma cover, but the 'rock' element wasn't really obvious when touring the museum. Mostly sci-fi movie stuff. Well, I guess that's not surprising. BTW, despite Gruyeres being 'fully' inside the French part of CH, all Giger's writing was in German FWIW. I was going to say a bit about the Burg Herzberg fest too, but now I see that Mike H. has advanced that thread some more, so I'll end this diatribe now, and respond to that over there at some point when I get around to it. Grakkl (FAA) P.S. Note to those on Yahoo list that may not know already...in Europe, there is available a ltd. edition version of Monolithic Baby with a video version (no region encoding, but it is PAL video) of "The Right Stuff" that is about two minutes longer than the album version...so it has extra 'jamming' towards the end, for those that like such things. Plus, it has a 'explicit' video for "Unbroken" (for those that like such things!), a 12-minute interview with (mainly) Dave, and also two live tracks (both from this album, obviously before it was released) from a concert at London-Astoria. In total, about 35 minutes of stuff. P.P.S. The 25...Tab album from early MM days is definitely space-rock derived in character. Doug P. I think is the MM historian of note, so best ask him about the early daze. Wasn't there other cassette/vinyl or even pre-MM stuff done back then? ObCD: Anekdoten - Gravity (tomorrow night live in Basel) From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Apr 5 13:13:02 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:13:02 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henderson Keith" > Andreas offers... > > >just ordered the book from Amazon.de (German version) as a "Pre-release". > >I?m looking VERY MUCH forward to it. The passages of the book which you > >gave me to read last December during our breakfast I think were amazing. > >If the rest of the book is only half as good it will be the definitive > >book about Hawkwind. > > German version?? Really, was this somehow part of the 'deal' that you > got, Ian? All publishing contracts include a translated edition clause, though sadly in this instance I think Andreas ordered it from the German version of Amazon, not a German edition itself :-) >BTW, *did* you have some sort of deal (i.e., advance and > the like) to write such a book? How does that even work? No need to > publicly divulge anything you feel isn't anyone's else (darn) business. > (I just ask 'cause my sister-in-law gets contracts to write 'small-run' > books and was wondering how it works, though from what I'm reading > yours isn't so 'small-run' if it's so high on the preorder rankings!... > and I thought maybe someday I could do a 'reference' book on global > space-rock, in the vein of the Freeman's krautrock guide and Chris > Williams' excellent UK-Psych book, so just a one-stop-shopping > alternative to their works, but was never sure anyone would ever care > enough to have one (in print), given what one can now learn online, > e.g. in the virtual pages of A-I.com and the like.) Yes, there is a deal, and a contract, and an advance. Generally advances against royalties are either as a percentage of cover price or as a percentage of the price received from the distributors. The later is a higher percentage, but it pretty much evens itself out - there is only so much cake whichever way you try to cut it. Particularly thank goodness for the advance. My petrol bill is sky high and the quarter in which I was most intensive on interviews saw my telephone bill triple! Mind you, surprisingly good value for fifty minutes telephone time from Cornwall to British Columbia ;-) > Anyway, this Saf > Publishing...they are 'part of the system' (global distribution, > connected to some sort of major company?) or are they like a true 'indie > label' (to use that analogy...does it work for publishing?)? A lot > (or heaps?!) of indie music goes through Amazon these days, yeah, so > not so sure how to tell. Well, they are a sort of indie label in a way - to pick-up on the analogy - a small operation being distributed through a major. They actually like to draw the comparision with indie record labels, finding talent (and me!) and sending it off into the big world. Aside from Amazon (and Student World!) it should be in Borders, Waterstones and Ottakars in the UK - and there is American distribution also. > > Crikey...now which version do I buy? How many pages is it? See above - sadly there is only the one edition to choose from! The publishing blurb says 224 pages, but thats less important than word count, which is around 114,000 - 115,000 as it stands. Ian From Andreas.Stuewe at T-ONLINE.DE Mon Apr 5 13:25:13 2004 From: Andreas.Stuewe at T-ONLINE.DE (Andreas Stuewe) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:25:13 +0200 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: Henderson Keith schrieb: > Andreas offers... > > >just ordered the book from Amazon.de (German version) as a "Pre-release". > >I?m looking VERY MUCH forward to it. The passages of the book which you > >gave me to read last December during our breakfast I think were amazing. > >If the rest of the book is only half as good it will be the definitive > >book about Hawkwind. > > German version?? No! I meant it?s the German site of Amazon. Sorry to disappoint you. But since your German is pretty good maybe you can translate the book... Andreas From DDUCTOR at NEUUS.JNJ.COM Mon Apr 5 13:25:49 2004 From: DDUCTOR at NEUUS.JNJ.COM (Ductor, Dan [NEUUS]) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:25:49 -0400 Subject: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band Message-ID: Hey, has anyone on the list seen these guys? I love old King Crimson and was delighted to see that 21st SB are touring the U.S. Any info that can be shared is most appreciated! Dan PS: Totally off, but I just picked up a copy of An Animated Life by Ray Harryhausen. Excellent book if you're a fan of his films. From erics at TELEPRES.COM Mon Apr 5 13:26:16 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:26:16 -0400 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: <00c701c41b31$40e95f00$fa23fea9@r1e1j2>; from mail@ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK on Mon, Apr 05, 2004 at 06:13:02PM +0100 Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 05, 2004 at 06:13:02PM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: > Yes, there is a deal, and a contract, and an advance. Generally advances > against royalties are either as a percentage of cover price or as a > percentage of the price received from the distributors. Based on the publisher's estimate of how many copies they'll sell? First printing only? (Is that the same question asked two ways?) > Mind you, surprisingly good value for fifty minutes telephone time from > Cornwall to British Columbia ;-) Ooo, tasty! > [...] word count, > which is around 114,000 - 115,000 as it stands. "As it stands" meaning that it's still in the editing stage? I'd have thought that they couldn't give a firm page count until the copy had been finalized... -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Mon Apr 5 13:31:54 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:31:54 -0400 Subject: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band In-Reply-To: <4327A1883D21D311AC9400508B0A1B9E1222D7AB@ntguslaexs1.neuus .na.jnj.com> Message-ID: >Hey, has anyone on the list seen these guys? I love old King Crimson and >was delighted to see that 21st SB are touring the U.S. Any info that >can be shared is most appreciated! They're touring the states!? That'll be a neat show indeed. I've read gig reviews of some of their EU shows on the king crimson news website. The guitarist seems to havea a good handle on the early fripp style, from what i've read. Good year for history in performance so far! this band, DKTMC5, Cellsum's 10th Ann. From GHawkwind63 at AOL.COM Mon Apr 5 14:17:33 2004 From: GHawkwind63 at AOL.COM (Michael Gee) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:17:33 EDT Subject: HW: Monster Magnet, other rubbish, usw... Message-ID: In a message dated 05/04/04 15:40:57 GMT Daylight Time, keith.henderson at PSI.CH writes: > . And plus, > the signs there have French given first, and German below, which would seem > to indicate that it's a Francophone city first and foremost, but really it > lies exactly on the so-called Roeschtigraben that separates the two > languages/cultures (ignoring the Italian part south of the Alps for the > moment). Is the Roeschtigraben a metaphorical divide or a real one? Sorry to ask but being married to a Swiss i have never heard of it. Thanks Gee... From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Apr 5 15:14:46 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:14:46 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Siegerman" > On Mon, Apr 05, 2004 at 06:13:02PM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: > > Yes, there is a deal, and a contract, and an advance. Generally advances > > against royalties are either as a percentage of cover price or as a > > percentage of the price received from the distributors. > > Based on the publisher's estimate of how many copies they'll > sell? First printing only? (Is that the same question asked two > ways?) Yes, there is a formula, generally, as to how much an advance should calculate out to be, based on expected sales - but I don't know what it is and am very happy with the deal I did. > > [...] word count, > > which is around 114,000 - 115,000 as it stands. > > "As it stands" meaning that it's still in the editing stage? I'd > have thought that they couldn't give a firm page count until the > copy had been finalized... > Well, technically I guess you are right, though they have to commit information to distributors catalogues etc. I don't think there is much to come out of the 115,000 word text as submitted - the weekend before it went off, it was at 124,000 and I thought it was really tight, until I got down to serious editing :-) Ian From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Mon Apr 5 16:09:35 2004 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:09:35 -0400 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins In-Reply-To: <017101c41685$1be6f9c0$fa23fea9@r1e1j2> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 07:30:42PM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: => Title is Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins, publisher SAF Publishing Ltd, => release date 31st July 2004, UK ?25, US $40, hardcover. [[...]] => Amazon are now listing the book on their UK site (I understand it => will be on their US site really soon) with a pretty generous => pre-publication discount offer running. Any chance of prodding SAF to prod Amazon to list it for pre-order on their US site? I'd like to pre-order it, but from amazon.com, not amazon.co.uk. Judging by the above list price, it should qualify for free shipping to US addresses if ordered from amazon.com. (There is free shipping on orders over $25.) (I've done the reverse before, ordering from amazon.co.uk from the USA to save on shipping when buying things destined for family in the UK, so it's not like I have anything against amazon.co.uk. I just like to avoid needless postage.;) Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From erics at TELEPRES.COM Mon Apr 5 16:16:46 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:16:46 -0400 Subject: Fwd: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? In-Reply-To: ; from paul@IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK on Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 11:46:09PM +0100 Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 11:46:09PM +0100, pauleatonjones wrote: > The Illuminati refer to them as The > JUSTIFIED ANCIENTS of MU. "Mummu", wasn't it? > Mu being a mythical island chain lying to the > east of eurasia. The 'polar' opposite being the equally mythical > atlantis. Yet more hippie/new-age/crystal, tree-hugging nonsense. Oh is that what Mu was all about? At the time, I knew someone who was into those books, but never paid much attention myself. -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Apr 5 17:38:29 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:38:29 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mather" > > Any chance of prodding SAF to prod Amazon to list it for pre-order on > their US site? I'd like to pre-order it, but from amazon.com, not > amazon.co.uk. Judging by the above list price, it should qualify for > free shipping to US addresses if ordered from amazon.com. (There > is free shipping on orders over $25.) > > (I've done the reverse before, ordering from amazon.co.uk from the USA > to save on shipping when buying things destined for family in the UK, > so it's not like I have anything against amazon.co.uk. I just like to > avoid needless postage.;) I'm told that it will be on Amazon.com, but I'm not sure of the timings - I'll ask next time I talk to the publishers. Ian From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Mon Apr 5 17:58:35 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:58:35 -0400 Subject: OFF: Monster Magnet, other rubbish, usw... Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:55 +0200, Henderson Keith wrote: >The funniest thing about the Giger museum is the Giger-Bar next door, >which is designed like the inside of the Alien spacecraft and has chairs >that fit the 'pattern' (though they are proportioned for humans to sit >in). And I won't go into much detail about the personal drawings inside >the 'adult' room...interesting things going inside that man's mind! Well ... there was the Dead Kennedy's album insert poster that Giger did, which earned Jello Biafra an obscenity trial (and eventual acquittal, thank you First Ammendment). >P.P.S. The 25...Tab album from early MM days is definitely space-rock >derived in character. Doug P. I think is the MM historian of note, so >best ask him about the early daze. Wasn't there other cassette/vinyl or >even pre-MM stuff done back then? - "Lizard Johnny" / "Freak Shop USA" 7" on Circuit Records - demo cassette from the Circuit era (containing one of the 2 tracks, the first MM version of "Brainstorm", and an early version of "TAB") - "Murder" / "Tractor" 7" on Primo Scree/Caroline - 12"/CD on Glitterhouse containing one track from the above 7" (both tracks on the CD, I think), *remakes* of the two songs from the first 7", plus an early version of "Nod Scene" (and one other 'Spine of God' track, perhaps?) - 'TAB ... 25' CD on Glitterhouse There was also a second demo cassette (I believe it contained Glitterhouse- era recordings of several 'Spine of God' tracks), but I don't have that one ... BTW one source of the rumor that Hawkwind will open for Monster Magnet in the USA this fall can be found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/entertainment/music/hawkwind.shtml -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Mon Apr 5 18:08:05 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:08:05 -0400 Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:01:30 -0500, John McIntyre wrote: >Eric Siegerman wrote: > >>So, for someone whose total knowledge of the MC5 comes from this >>thread ... where should I start? >> >> >Kick Out The Jams. If you don't like that, there's no need in going any >further. Absolutely, positively, do not start with Back In The USA. >That album is a textbook example of the difference a producer can make, >in this case for the worse. Opinion strongly seconded. The third album, 'High Time' is great, but not really the best place to start. Actually, the BEST place to start with the MC5 would be their second (indie-released) 7", "Looking At You", which has been reissued in a bunch of formats, so you don't need to pay $150 for an original copy. However, there is an awful remake of the song on 'Back In The USA', so be careful! (Not an entirely dissimilar situation to certain Hawkwind releases.) -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From stemfors at PIPELINE.COM Mon Apr 5 18:11:21 2004 From: stemfors at PIPELINE.COM (Stephan Forstner) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:11:21 -0400 Subject: HW: Monster Magnet, other rubbish, usw... Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:55 +0200, Henderson Keith wrote: >In case anybody gives a crap...I went to visit the HR Giger Museum in >Gruyeres, which is not far from Fribourg, and is more famous for cheese >than for one man's crazed imagination. It's a cool place, Beautiful medieval town and castle. >as is the old castle just a short walk away (and you can visit both for >14 CHF, which is a pretty good deal in this terribly expensive country), >though they don't let you take photos/video inside. I visited there in the early 90s, and didn't see the Giger museum, but when I was there the castle was hosting an exhibition of Patrick Woodroffe's art, which can sometimes give Giger's a run for the money! Odd that such a 'quaint'-seeming place has such an affinity for the bizarre. Stephan From stemfors at PIPELINE.COM Mon Apr 5 18:12:06 2004 From: stemfors at PIPELINE.COM (MrPotatoHead) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:12:06 -0400 Subject: HW: Monster Magnet, other rubbish, usw... Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:17:33 EDT, Michael Gee wrote: >In a message dated 05/04/04 15:40:57 GMT Daylight Time, >keith.henderson at PSI.CH writes: > > >> . And plus, the signs there have French given first, and German below, >> which would seem to indicate that it's a Francophone city first and >> foremost, but really it lies exactly on the so-called Roeschtigraben >> that separates the two languages/cultures (ignoring the Italian part >> south of the Alps for the moment). > >Is the Roeschtigraben a metaphorical divide or a real one? Sorry to ask >but being married to a Swiss i have never heard of it. Thanks Gee... Roeschtigraben = Potato-dish-ditch I think its usually regarded as being on the Saane River, but its basically metaphorical and represents the gap between the French-Swiss and German- Swiss in political and social matters. On one side (German-Swiss) the national potato dish is called Roesti, while on the other side its French Fries. Actually its not French Fries, I just made that up, its a different kind of potato stew which I don't remember the name of, but French Fries has French in it and so... Sorry about that, Stephan From stemfors at PIPELINE.COM Mon Apr 5 18:13:39 2004 From: stemfors at PIPELINE.COM (Fernando) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:13:39 -0400 Subject: BOC/HW: Chill out, Doods and Doodettes Message-ID: This is sort of funny: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/prozak Dripping with sarcasm and dusted with irony it may be, but they really do play it a bit too straight - still, its got Don't Fear the Reaper AND Aqualung AND London Calling AND I Wanna be Sedated AND Folsom Prison Blues so they have some sort of taste. And I guess they don't need to get copyright permission as they can claim its a parody. Possibly also of interest: http://www.punk77.co.uk/punkhistory/punkhistinto.htm particularly http://www.punk77.co.uk/punkhistory/thesoundofladbrokegrove.htm and many other artists known and loved by denizens of this list. Note that the MC5 don't get an unqualified endorsement, and its mostly fairly superficial, but still some interesting opinions on there. Stephan From stemfors at PIPELINE.COM Mon Apr 5 18:17:24 2004 From: stemfors at PIPELINE.COM (21st Century Schizoid Fan) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:17:24 -0400 Subject: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:31:54 -0400, Jason Scruton wrote: >>Hey, has anyone on the list seen these guys? I love old King Crimson >>and was delighted to see that 21st SB are touring the U.S. Any info >>that can be shared is most appreciated! Haven't seen them, but have heard an audience recording of one of their gigs. Rather excellent, possibly tending a bit toward the more laid-back style of the McDonald and Giles album, some material from which they perform - but with eruptions of power. Very good stuff. (Eruptions of Power, sounds like a new hair metal band braving the contempt of the music press after The Darkness have paved the way). >The guitarist seems to havea a good handle >on the early fripp style, from what i've read. Jakko Jakszyk, formerly of Level 42 (a band I've never heard and know nothing about). He sounded quite good on the recording I heard, and he didn't try to hog the spotlight. Stephan From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Mon Apr 5 18:57:53 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:57:53 -0400 Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >really the best place to start. Actually, the BEST place to start with >the MC5 would be their second (indie-released) 7", "Looking At You", which >has been reissued in a bunch of formats, so you don't need to pay $150 for >an original copy. However, there is an awful remake of the song on 'Back >In The USA', so be careful! (Not an entirely dissimilar situation to >certain Hawkwind releases.) Yeah, that single's great --- as raw as (or more than) the really loud Raveup by lemmy and co on Doremi's Brainstorm. There's a far different, earlier version on the TotalEnergy release 66 Breakout (i think that's the name...im bad with numbers and I dont have it with me at the moment) -- it's live. much slower groove, builds nicely and has an extra verse. From deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Mon Apr 5 18:58:44 2004 From: deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (deadearnest) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:58:44 +0100 Subject: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band Message-ID: Not sen them but the two latest live CD's are quite stunning. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ductor, Dan [NEUUS] To: Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band > Hey, has anyone on the list seen these guys? I love old King Crimson and > was delighted to see that 21st SB are touring the U.S. Any info that > can be shared is most appreciated! > > Dan > > PS: Totally off, but I just picked up a copy of An Animated Life by Ray > Harryhausen. Excellent book if you're a fan of his films. From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Mon Apr 5 19:30:28 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:30:28 -0400 Subject: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band In-Reply-To: <00ef01c41b64$1ea313e0$70258751@andy> Message-ID: At 11:58 PM 4/5/04 +0100, you wrote: >Not sen them but the two latest live CD's are quite stunning. >Andy G. Is CD services carrying 'em? If so, how much? :) Jason From youless at COX.NET Mon Apr 5 22:17:59 2004 From: youless at COX.NET (Steve Youles) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:17:59 -0400 Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? Message-ID: A huge gulf production wise between Kick Out The Jams and Back In The USA, certainly, but the songs on the latter are excellent. I wonder if it's one of those albums that could be 'fixed' by playing it through a multi-band graphic equaliser? Another one I have is 'Babes In Arms' which is a retrospective round-up of oddities, including different versions of Shaking Street, American Ruse, Tonite and Looking At You. Best of all though, is the track Sister Anne. Steve --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eric Siegerman wrote: >>Kick Out The Jams. If you don't like that, there's no need in going any >>further. Absolutely, positively, do not start with Back In The USA. >>That album is a textbook example of the difference a producer can make, >>in this case for the worse. On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:08:05 -0400, Doug Pearson wrote: >Opinion strongly seconded. The third album, 'High Time' is great, but not >really the best place to start. Actually, the BEST place to start with >the MC5 would be their second (indie-released) 7", "Looking At You", which >has been reissued in a bunch of formats, so you don't need to pay $150 for >an original copy. However, there is an awful remake of the song on 'Back >In The USA', so be careful! (Not an entirely dissimilar situation to >certain Hawkwind releases.) > -Doug > jasret at mindspring.com From artshop at ARTIST-SHOP.COM Tue Apr 6 07:37:31 2004 From: artshop at ARTIST-SHOP.COM (Gary Davis) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:37:31 -0400 Subject: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band Message-ID: At 05:00 AM 4/6/04 -0400, Jason wrote: >At 11:58 PM 4/5/04 +0100, you wrote: >>Not sen them but the two latest live CD's are quite stunning. >>Andy G. >Is CD services carrying 'em? If so, how much? :) > >Jason And for those in the US (or anywhere really) you'll find all three 21st Century Schizoid Band CD's at The Artist Shop on our Burning Shed page . Of the three releases, particularly noteworthy is 'Live in Italy' as it includes a brand new studio track called 'Catleys Ashes.' I thought it was quite good and if it's indicative of what new material can come from this band, then I'm all for it!!! Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop.com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Tue Apr 6 18:23:09 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:23:09 -0700 Subject: HW: Ron Tree related album In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 15:09 19.03.04 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:36:16 -0500, Doug Pearson >wrote: > > >I have both Captain Jesus albums (the other one is 'All Thanks To Lord > >Jesus Christ Amen'). Ron plays bass, and a bit of keyboard, but does not > >sing at all. I love both of the albums, and think they're great examples > >of psychedelic punk (they cover the Sex Pistols and MC5). If you like > >that sort of music > >And you know I do! > >Thanks for the info, much appreciated. > >Nick Doug Pearson made me a cassette of both Captain Jesus & The Sunray Dream LPs and the tape is one of my fave Hawkwind spinoffs. Chr. From david.dobbie at BT.COM Tue Apr 6 11:16:44 2004 From: david.dobbie at BT.COM (David Dobbie) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:16:44 +0100 Subject: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of 21st Century Schizoid Fan Sent: 05 April 2004 23:17 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band >>>Jakko Jakszyk, formerly of Level 42 (a band I've never heard and know nothing about) you are soo lucky these were a pet hate of any rock / indie / punk / psychobillie / goth that was around it the 80's I am so jealous the bassist from that band just brings me out in anger you are so so luck Love and Pax Dobbie On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:31:54 -0400, Jason Scruton wrote: >>Hey, has anyone on the list seen these guys? I love old King Crimson >>and was delighted to see that 21st SB are touring the U.S. Any info >>that can be shared is most appreciated! Haven't seen them, but have heard an audience recording of one of their gigs. Rather excellent, possibly tending a bit toward the more laid-back style of the McDonald and Giles album, some material from which they perform - but with eruptions of power. Very good stuff. (Eruptions of Power, sounds like a new hair metal band braving the contempt of the music press after The Darkness have paved the way). >The guitarist seems to havea a good handle >on the early fripp style, from what i've read. Jakko Jakszyk, formerly of Level 42 (a band I've never heard and know nothing about). He sounded quite good on the recording I heard, and he didn't try to hog the spotlight. Stephan From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Tue Apr 6 11:47:16 2004 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:47:16 +0200 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now Schwiizertuutsch Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:17:33 EDT, Michael Gee wrote: >In a message dated 05/04/04 15:40:57 GMT Daylight Time, >keith.henderson at PSI.CH writes: > > >> . And plus, the signs there have French given first, and German below, >> which would seem to indicate that it's a Francophone city first and >> foremost, but really it lies exactly on the so-called Roeschtigraben >> that separates the two languages/cultures (ignoring the Italian part >> south of the Alps for the moment). > >Is the Roeschtigraben a metaphorical divide or a real one? Sorry to ask >but being married to a Swiss i have never heard of it. Thanks Gee... Stephan's reply... >Roeschtigraben = Potato-dish-ditch > >I think its usually regarded as being on the Saane River, but its basically >metaphorical and represents the gap between the French-Swiss and German- >Swiss in political and social matters. Ja, stimmt...hier gibt es noch mehr. http://www.about.ch/culture/languages/words_n_phrases.html and as it suggests below the map, it is true that one cannot really say that they speak 'German' here in this part of CH. 'Cause it truly is completely unrecognizable as German. Native Germans (and we have a lot here at my work) say it takes between 6 mos.-1 year for *them* to have any idea what the Swiss are saying. And the Swiss themselves can distinguish accents from people that live on *one* side of a particular city from those who live on the opposite side, perhaps 5-10 km away. I guess when the population is consistently entrenched in their own little corner of the country, separated by great topographic features, coupled with the very traditional and conservative ways (esp. in earlier centuries), such a rich language variety is possible. To me, they all sound like the Swedish Chef from the muppets, and it's hard not to laugh when listening to a Swiss conversation. Lucky for me that their spoken dialect is only that, as they read/write in high German. Though kids these days are 'teaching' themselves how to write Swiss-German, with whatever spelling they care to use. Given that there is no correct/false way to spell any 'Swiss' words, except those really common ones, e.g. 'mangisch' (=manchmal, sometimes). So, they have 'chat' boards on the Tele-Text pages on various TV channels (something that doesn't exist in the US) that people access via Handy/SMS. So I occasionally try to decipher their nonsensical conversations when I'm bored. E schoeni Ziit & gueta Abig! Ciao zame...Grakkl (FAA) P.S. Duh! I had my calendar set on the wrong week! Anekdoten concert is *next* Tuesday in Basel...good thing I figured that out before I got on the train tonight. It's been that kind of a week, and it's only half over. (Karfreitag is a holiday here! And Easter Monday too, whatever that is?!) From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Tue Apr 6 12:10:33 2004 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:10:33 +0200 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger Message-ID: I said... >In case anybody gives a crap...I went to visit the HR Giger Museum >in Gruyeres > >For krautrock aficionadoes, >And HRGiger was also apparently involved with another "Cosmick Courier" >veteran Sergius Golowin back in those days. I'll have to read more >into that in the biog. book I bought there, to see how much he was >involved in that old movement...I think Golowin worked on the soundtrack >to a Giger film (that I was unfamiliar with) Necromonicon. I did look at it more closely last night. And it was actuall Joel Vandroogenbroeck, the Belgian (?) dude who founded the nomadic group Brainticket. So while he was in Switzerland, apparently Giger got him involved in this soundtrack, but it's not clear who the actual full lineup of musicians was...I'll look into that now, as maybe if the thing's out on DVD, I might track it down. And it's actually spelled Necronomicon, which helps to actually get some hits when using a search engine. :) And it's some strange old mythical writing from some Arabic land...sort of the Mid-east Book of the Dead or something? And according to Giger's book, one recounting of the essence of the original was done by JP Lovecraft. Is that the same person as HP Lovecraft, but with a "German" form of his first name, or a relative, or what? Don't know anything much about Lovecraft, to be honest. Not even the band. BTW, HR is for Hansruedi, which can (sometimes I guess?) be written as two names, and is quite common here in these parts. And yes, in fact, Giger grew up in Graubunden, the southeast canton famous for resorts like Davos and St. Moritz. I guess the museum is in Gruyeres just because tourists go there anyway, and because the building was for sale. ? Grakkl (FAA) P.S. And now a further websearch brings me to this interesting item, that I *should* have known about already, since I've long been in regular contact with the GoD label, but yet oddly being so close to the label's headquaters has actually made me of little use to them. So I'm not up on every new issue of theirs... >Drum Circus - Magic Theater >CD, Garden Of Delights label remaster of Swiss act's unreleased '72 >recording, featuring Joel Vandroogenbroeck (pre-Brainticket) & Peter >Giger, very psychedelic like Brainticket, but more jazzy... *Peter* Giger...hmmm...didn't seem like he would have had a son old enough to be doing this. His first wife/SO shot herself before they had children, I think I read. But maybe he just didn't mention the son, I dunno. Anyway, this is also with Vand...so can't be a total coincidence. P.P.S. The one tower of the Gruyeres castle still *does* have a large exhibit of very cool modern abstract art, though I think maybe it's from a different guy. I took some photos of some of his work, and was going to buy a poster, but they didn't have the particular one that I liked best, which is always a bit disappointing. P.P.P.S. I don't understand why sometimes 'umlauts' don't come through the e-mailing process (as in my very last post), even when I change over to "Rich Text" format (which often works, but why not always?). Komisch. From deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Tue Apr 6 04:11:03 2004 From: deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (deadearnest) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:11:03 +0100 Subject: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band Message-ID: Yes - but sadly ?16.99 each (ouch!!!). it's because of what we're being charged for them - not a lot one can do about that. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Scruton To: Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:30 AM Subject: Re: Off- 21st Century Schizoid Band > At 11:58 PM 4/5/04 +0100, you wrote: > >Not sen them but the two latest live CD's are quite stunning. > >Andy G. > Is CD services carrying 'em? If so, how much? :) > > Jason From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Apr 6 14:21:21 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:21:21 -0400 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:10:33 +0200, Henderson Keith wrote: >And it's actually spelled Necronomicon, which helps to actually get >some hits when using a search engine. :) And it's some strange old >mythical writing from some Arabic land...sort of the Mid-east Book >of the Dead or something? And according to Giger's book, one >recounting of the essence of the original was done by JP Lovecraft. >Is that the same person as HP Lovecraft, but with a "German" form >of his first name, or a relative, or what? The Necronomicon (book of dead names) is a fictitious "ancient manuscript" dreamed up by HP Lovecraft and often mentioned in his overheated purple prose short stories (there's a few stories by him I really like, but generally there's just too much of the Terrible Old Ones waving their Hideous Slimy Tentacles around, usually under the light of a Gibbous Moon during a Night of Sickening Dread.. you get the picture). I have no idea who JP Lovecraft is/was and suspect that was a misprint or other error. The kind of people that have difficulty distinguishing fantasy and reality often have a particular enthusiasm for Lovecraft, and may claim that his stories were based on another plane of reality that revealed itself to him in his dreams, and that the Necronomicon really exists, and sundry other foolish things. Nick From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Apr 6 14:38:38 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:38:38 -0400 Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:01:30 -0500, John McIntyre wrote: >Eric Siegerman wrote: > >>So, for someone whose total knowledge of the MC5 comes from this >>thread ... where should I start? >> >> >Kick Out The Jams. If you don't like that, there's no need in going any >further. Absolutely! It's only one of the greatest live albums ever made, so if you don't like it, you can safely assume you don't like the MC5. There's a bewildering array of archive/unreleased/live MC5 stuff out there- this thread has helped me make sense of some of it, but there's still a ton of albums that *might* be worth hearing, but on the other hand might be awful bootleg-quality rip-offs. Any comments on "Thunder Road"? Or "Greatest Hits Live"? (not a title that inspires confidence, that last one). One I do have is: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00002MPKH/qid=1081276335/sr=1- 13/ref=sr_1_2_13/026-1786550-7358069 "Motor City is Burning"- a mixed bag, some of it has terrible sound quality, but a few tracks are essential- the spinechilling version of the title track for example. Is there any comprehensive online guide to all these releases? Nick From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Tue Apr 6 15:57:57 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:57:57 -0400 Subject: BOC/OFF: Jams kicked out, and the sky is falling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thunder Express, perhaps? If so, it's worh getting... fairly clear sound from a french TV broadcast, but without MicaelDavis on Bass (bass sound is very non-existent throughout the release though). Has a few rarities, Thunder Express, for one. Very Chuck Berry. and Their cover "Empty Hearts" by the Stones, garnished with lovely guitar jamming (ditto for the 5 staple, rama lama fa fa fa). Its also nice becuause you can understand all the words to motor city's burning. Yes, there is an good online guide. Don't have a usable netbrowser right now to find it, but look for "MC5 Gateway" go to albums, and there's an article by i94 bar mainstay Ken Shimamoto which tries to sepearte the wheat from the chaff, live release-wise. I have a bunch (all but one, technically) of the Alive/Total-Energy series of discs of the 5's live and "other" work. Sound quality on those range from subterranean murk to not too shabby. IN order of my preference of the discs, "Power Trip" (for a 25 minute band/guitar jam), Maddest Baddest (a best of) (has "I believe to my soul" and selects judiciously from the other totalE releases), TeenAge Lust, then Starship -- two live relases with some really bad soundquality more fost of the discs, but a lot of enthusiasm in playing. Hope that helps! Jason >"Motor City is Burning"- a mixed bag, some of it has terrible sound >quality, but a few tracks are essential- the spinechilling version of the >title track for example. Is there any comprehensive online guide to all >these releases? > >Nick > > From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Tue Apr 6 16:45:16 2004 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:45:16 -0400 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 02:21:21PM -0400, Nick Medford wrote: => The kind of people that have difficulty distinguishing fantasy and reality => often have a particular enthusiasm for Lovecraft, and may claim that his => stories were based on another plane of reality that revealed itself to him => in his dreams, and that the Necronomicon really exists, and sundry other => foolish things. Hey! The _Necronomicon_ *does* exist! Avon put out a mass-mark paperback edition of it years ago! :-) On a tangential BOC-L-related note, I have a dim recollection that Lovecraft's _Necronomicon_ was inspired by the fictional book _The King in Yellow_, mentioned in R.W. Chambers' short story _The Yellow Sign_. Like the _Necronomicon_, reading _The Yellow Sign_--especially the forbidden second part---destined the reader for certain madness due to the Hideous Truths[tm] contained therein. So it goes. Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Apr 6 19:16:04 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:16:04 -0400 Subject: BOC/OFF: why were the Jams kicked out? Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:38:38 -0400, Nick Medford wrote: >Any comments on "Thunder Road"? oops, make that "Thunder Express". NM From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 7 00:32:00 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:32:00 -0700 Subject: OFF: Someone who died in the paper.... Message-ID: an awesome album from 2001. abit of Armored Saint/Christian Mumford worship: Entombed "Morning Star" (October 2001) about... Someone who died in the paper.... ...or a Saint in Russian Church. ...spot the centerfold of a rallycross stock car labelled "666". "Is this the truth of your image... You're in love with a dream of an image not given" that is abit Hilary Stench or Andrew Eldritch..... or quite Alla in all of Buddism.. ...abit of Punisher in LA maybe a crazy Hawkwind fan who got a little abit of revenge "I take the bricks out of the briefcase... set this whole thing free" ...and was an insane person never said he was a kid in a hippie band after all... and was a hero in "Hellblazer" comics.... or something or other with women. -Chr. From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 7 06:52:54 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:52:54 -0700 Subject: CD's I bought today Message-ID: * Monster Magnet - "Monolithic Baby" I thought this was a real dud- except for the Hawkwind cover "The Right Stuff" and a few bits here and there but mostly uninspired and homogenous IMHO- I didn't get their last one "God Says No", but plan to get it, for some reason it passed me by. I thought their previous efforts like "Powertrip" and "Dopes" a little bit better, compared to the band's early period like the s/t CD and "Spine Of God" and the "Evil" EP. "Superjudge" seemed to close off their early and more primitive period.... * Metallica - "The Black Album" This and "Master Of Puppets" are classics I suppose, I haven't heard "Ride The Lightening" yet but bought the latest one, "St. Anger", which is far away from their 80's style output (also counting "The Black Album" from 1991). It is rather strange that I didn't get "The Black Album" CD a little earlier. I didn't pay much attention to their 90's stuff like "Load", I thought it was abit half crap... *Iron Maiden - "Wildest Dreams" CDS This single is quite awesome with a true NWOB heavy metal anthem like the title really soars like the first "Iron Maiden" album with Paul D'ianno on vocals and the "The Number Of The Beast" CD with Dickinson's debut- it is as lively and fresh sounding as their early output. The second track "Pass The Jam" is an 8 minute track with some rather strange hippie undertones at the end. ...anyone care to comment? Chr. "I showed up at Bogstad Camping in May of '99 as Michael Moorcock's Warhorse in Iran, on the embassy telephone and radio Luxembourg, and was painfully crucified as The Jehovah" From michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU Tue Apr 6 22:27:59 2004 From: michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU (The unknown soldier) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:57:59 +0930 Subject: CD's I bought today Message-ID: Metallica? Didn't they immigrate to Australia and change their name to The Wiggles? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 8:22 PM Subject: CD's I bought today > * Monster Magnet - "Monolithic Baby" > I thought this was a real dud- except for the Hawkwind cover "The Right > Stuff" and a few bits here and there but mostly uninspired and homogenous > IMHO- I didn't get their last one "God Says No", but plan to get it, for > some reason it passed me by. I thought their previous efforts like > "Powertrip" and "Dopes" a little bit better, compared to the band's early > period like the s/t CD and "Spine Of God" and the "Evil" EP. "Superjudge" > seemed to close off their early and more primitive period.... > > * Metallica - "The Black Album" > This and "Master Of Puppets" are classics I suppose, I haven't heard "Ride > The Lightening" yet but bought the latest one, "St. Anger", which is far > away from their 80's style output (also counting "The Black Album" from > 1991). It is rather strange that I didn't get "The Black Album" CD a little > earlier. I didn't pay much attention to their 90's stuff like "Load", I > thought it was abit half crap... > > *Iron Maiden - "Wildest Dreams" CDS > This single is quite awesome with a true NWOB heavy metal anthem like the > title really soars like the first "Iron Maiden" album with Paul D'ianno on > vocals and the "The Number Of The Beast" CD with Dickinson's debut- it is > as lively and fresh sounding as their early output. The second track "Pass > The Jam" is an 8 minute track with some rather strange hippie undertones at > the end. > > > ...anyone care to comment? > Chr. > > "I showed up at Bogstad Camping in May of '99 as Michael Moorcock's > Warhorse in Iran, on the embassy telephone and radio Luxembourg, and was > painfully crucified as The Jehovah" > From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Apr 6 22:36:59 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:36:59 -0400 Subject: BOC/OFF: Jams kicked out, and the sky is falling Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:57:57 -0400, Jason Scruton wrote: >Yes, there is an good online guide. >Don't have a usable netbrowser right now to find it, but >look for "MC5 Gateway" OK I found it... http://makemyday.free.fr/mc5.htm >go to albums, and there's an article by i94 bar mainstay Ken Shimamoto http://makemyday.free.fr/reviews1.htm >which tries to sepearte the wheat from the chaff, live release-wise. > >I have a bunch (all but one, technically) of the Alive/Total-Energy series >of discs of the 5's live and "other" work. Sound quality on those range >from subterranean murk to not too shabby. IN order of my preference of the >discs, >"Power Trip" (for a 25 minute band/guitar jam), Maddest Baddest (a best of) >(has "I believe to my soul" and selects judiciously from the other totalE >releases), TeenAge Lust, then Starship -- two live relases with some really >bad soundquality more fost of the discs, but a lot of enthusiasm in >playing. OK, that's exactly the information I was after- thanks! > >Hope that helps! Certainly does- thanks a lot Nick From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 7 07:24:38 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:24:38 -0700 Subject: OFF: Re (#2): CD's I bought today In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20040407031028.0098ec20@mail.chello.no> Message-ID: At 03:52 07.04.04 -0700, you wrote: >*Iron Maiden - "Wildest Dreams" CDS Iron Maiden luckily still being a quintessential UK band as true to their older NWOBHM anthems as ever, as opposed to Monster Magnet's later Ultra-American spacerock (compared to their earlier east-European style UG psych) for example. Metallica were probably never again quite as good or heavy as "The Black Album". Chr. "I showed up at Bogstad Camping in May of '99 as Michael Moorcock's Warhorse in Iran, on the embassy telephone and radio Luxembourg, and was painfully crucified as The Jehovah" >...anyone care to comment? >Chr. > >"I showed up at Bogstad Camping in May of '99 as Michael Moorcock's >Warhorse in Iran, on the embassy telephone and radio Luxembourg, and was >painfully crucified as The Jehovah" From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Wed Apr 7 07:19:12 2004 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:19:12 -0400 Subject: CD's I bought today Message-ID: >>> christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO 04/07/04 06:52AM >>> * Monster Magnet - "Monolithic Baby" I thought this was a real dud- except for the Hawkwind cover "The Right Stuff" and a few bits here and there but mostly uninspired and homogenous IMHO- I didn't get their last one "God Says No", but plan to get it, for some reason it passed me by. Def. go back and get GSN. But try to find a Euro version that includes Down in the Jungle, the best song on the disc, excluded from the US version, I presume because of the lyrics? theo From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 7 07:41:48 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:41:48 -0700 Subject: CD's I bought today In-Reply-To: <000c01c41c47$f1cf58d0$a7c88890@DrSBlackman> Message-ID: At 11:57 07.04.04 +0930, you wrote: >Metallica? Didn't they immigrate to Australia and change their name to The >Wiggles? Not as far as Ron Tree in Luxembourg is concerned From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 7 09:53:23 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:53:23 -0700 Subject: HW/BOC: My top15 Moorcock paperback novels Message-ID: "The Ice Schooner" ("Ulrik Skarsol" character) "The Return Of The Fireclown" "The Swords Trilogy" (first "Corum" trilogy of novels) "The City In The Autumn Stars" "The Warlord Of The Air" ("Oswald Bastable" character) "Sailor On The Seas Of Fate" (2nd "Elric" novel) "The Weird Of The White Wolf" (3rd "Elric" novel) "Stormbringer" (6th "Elric" novel) "Elric At The End Of Time" "The Jewel In The Skull" (first "Hawkmoon" novel) "The Russian Intelligence" ("Jerry Cornell" character, New English Library) "The Cornelius Chronicles" (Omnibus of the first four "Jerry Cornelius" novels) From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 7 12:05:25 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:05:25 -0700 Subject: Mystery Hawkwind Song?? In-Reply-To: <83.84259e9.2d9ca949@aol.com> Message-ID: At 18:07 31.03.04 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/31/2004 5:21:26 AM US Eastern Standard Time, >fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK writes: >It's the track after "Caution" on the "Strange Geometries" album ;-) >(showing large amounts of . . ) >Huh, who wha?? > >Sounds familiar, but I can't place the name. > >Joe Now... wasn't that some sort of ancient in-joke on Andrew A. Apold's behalf which I no longer remember. I am sure it was included on the boc-l faq. Chr- PS: I remember back in the golden days of having all my 100-120 Hawkwind & spinoff CD's intact... but then almost two years ago I threw them all away... with caution :) From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 7 19:58:26 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:58:26 -0700 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Only twice it seems... or was it three times? If you count spinoffs? Look below.... 1. Alaska, Oslo, 1991: Lineup: Dave Brock, Alan Davey, Richard Chadwick. Support: Diamond Dogs. (on this show I went alone) 2. The Limelight, NYC, 1995: Lineup Ron Bastard, Dave Brock, Alan Davey, Richard Chadwick: Support: Finally Balanced, Braindance and more. (on this show I brought Larry Bonforte) ...and a third one if you count spinoffs: (3. Molotow, Hamburg, 1998: Lineup Nik Turner, Knut Gervers as Robert Calvert and Kenneth Gustavson w/The Moor). (on this show I went with Scott Heller) And just for the record, the first time I touched a Windows machine or a Macintosh was in 1995 at various workplaces, right before I settled down and found BOC-L... Come to think of it I had actually used a Macintosh at artschool in 1994 but w/o internet... Chr. From erics at TELEPRES.COM Wed Apr 7 13:38:07 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:38:07 -0400 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger In-Reply-To: ; from nickmedford@HOTMAIL.COM on Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 02:21:21PM -0400 Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 02:21:21PM -0400, Nick Medford wrote: > The Necronomicon (book of dead names) is a fictitious "ancient manuscript" > dreamed up by HP Lovecraft Someone just mentioned this on another list: http://www.hello-cthulhu.com/?date=2003-11-30 Talk about timing! -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Wed Apr 7 14:30:40 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:30:40 +0100 Subject: HW: Hawkwind - Sonic Assassins Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mather" > > Any chance of prodding SAF to prod Amazon to list it for pre-order on > their US site? I'd like to pre-order it, but from amazon.com, not > amazon.co.uk. Judging by the above list price, it should qualify for > free shipping to US addresses if ordered from amazon.com. (There > is free shipping on orders over $25.) > > (I've done the reverse before, ordering from amazon.co.uk from the USA > to save on shipping when buying things destined for family in the UK, > so it's not like I have anything against amazon.co.uk. I just like to > avoid needless postage.;) I've checked, and as suspected it's down to when the distributors pull the information - I'm told it's likely to be about four weeks before you see it on Amazon.com Ian From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Thu Apr 8 02:46:50 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:46:50 -0700 Subject: HW: Hells Angels made me do it Message-ID: Hells Angels made me do it- Hell's Angels called me a Paki- So... this is all the stuff I burned or threw away in the last three years in anger after Hells Angels were done: * 1 Hawkwind 1991 Oslo ticket * 1 Lemmy signed Mot?rhead Stone Pony ticket * 1 Hawkwind "Earth Ritual" Patch * 1 Hawkwind "Black Sword" tour prog * 4 different Hawkwind tour shirts * A complete series of 50+ Michael Moorcock paperbacks and hardbacks * 120+ Hawkwind and related spinoff CD's * My entire Michael Moorcock "Eternal Champion" comics (in all sizes and shapes from PC/First/DC+ graphic novels) * a compelete run of DC comics "Preacher" #1-80 * a copy of the first printing of #1 of DC comics "Sandman" * a copy of Freemantle & Trungpa's "Tibetan Book Of The Dead" * a large book on 60's/70's UK Psychedelic/Progressive vinyl called "Tapestries of Delights" * a crappy book on UK psych/festie 80s-late 90's (on delerium I think) * a copy of Julian Cope's "Krautrocksampler" * innumerous CD's (still have the covers) including: Misfits, Voivod, Venom, Screaming Trees, Peter Hammill, Melting Euphoria, Mooseheart Faith Stellar Groove Band, and several more. -- Chr. NP: Tiamat "Skeleton Skeletron" From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Thu Apr 8 03:13:32 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:13:32 -0700 Subject: HW/BOC: my mother thought she was Michael Moorcock... Message-ID: ...but then I had to kill her in Time and Life Magazine and be a darling in the Anarchy. Chr.- From tclark at COX-INTERNET.COM Wed Apr 7 22:38:51 2004 From: tclark at COX-INTERNET.COM (Tom Clark) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:38:51 -0500 Subject: Hells Angels made me do it In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20040407234228.00983320@mail.chello.no> Message-ID: Damn...I bet you are kicking yourself now! Or is that some kind of April fools joke? -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Christian Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 1:47 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: HW: Hells Angels made me do it Hells Angels made me do it- Hell's Angels called me a Paki- So... this is all the stuff I burned or threw away in the last three years in anger after Hells Angels were done: * 1 Hawkwind 1991 Oslo ticket * 1 Lemmy signed Mot?rhead Stone Pony ticket * 1 Hawkwind "Earth Ritual" Patch * 1 Hawkwind "Black Sword" tour prog * 4 different Hawkwind tour shirts * A complete series of 50+ Michael Moorcock paperbacks and hardbacks * 120+ Hawkwind and related spinoff CD's * My entire Michael Moorcock "Eternal Champion" comics (in all sizes and shapes from PC/First/DC+ graphic novels) * a compelete run of DC comics "Preacher" #1-80 * a copy of the first printing of #1 of DC comics "Sandman" * a copy of Freemantle & Trungpa's "Tibetan Book Of The Dead" * a large book on 60's/70's UK Psychedelic/Progressive vinyl called "Tapestries of Delights" * a crappy book on UK psych/festie 80s-late 90's (on delerium I think) * a copy of Julian Cope's "Krautrocksampler" * innumerous CD's (still have the covers) including: Misfits, Voivod, Venom, Screaming Trees, Peter Hammill, Melting Euphoria, Mooseheart Faith Stellar Groove Band, and several more. -- Chr. NP: Tiamat "Skeleton Skeletron" From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Thu Apr 8 03:45:02 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Elkhunden National) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:45:02 -0700 Subject: HW: Re: how many Hawkwind shows have I seen? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20040407165409.00986aa0@mail.chello.no> Message-ID: At 16:58 07.04.04 -0700, you wrote: >Only twice it seems... or was it three times? If you count spinoffs? > >Look below.... > >1. Alaska, Oslo, 1991: Lineup: Dave Brock, Alan Davey, Richard >Chadwick. Support: Diamond Dogs. (on this show I went alone) > >2. The Limelight, NYC, 1995: Lineup Ron Bastard, Dave Brock, Alan >Davey, Richard Chadwick: Support: Finally Balanced, Braindance and >more. (on this show I brought Larry Bonforte) > >...and a third one if you count spinoffs: > >(3. Molotow, Hamburg, 1998: Lineup Nik Turner, Knut Gervers as Robert >Calvert and Kenneth Magnusson w/The Moor). (on this show I went with >Scott Heller) PS I had to correct the name of Kenneth Magnusson becauseI had written a different last name. On a side note the first time I got well stoned was in 1986 at age 14 and and I started buying my own hash at age 18 at SubPub or M?llers in Oslo, a city which I used to know so well because lived there all my life. I got my first bowl in 1992 in the East Village in New York City but that is a whole other story... The core of the subject is of course what is playing rite now on my stereo, namely---- NP: Turbonegro - "Never Is Forever" (being a CD which captures urban Oslo in the early-mid 90's so very well... echoing my glory years in the basement I lived in at Hafrfjordsgt. on the posher Embassy side of Oslo in a Townhouse under my parents... as hash-Dracula!) From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Thu Apr 8 05:01:44 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 02:01:44 -0700 Subject: OFF: complete "Hellblazer" comics set for sale Message-ID: Sorry to cloud the list with an off topic -Chr- "John Constantine: Hellblazer" #1-135 ('88-'99) Most issues in NM/F condition,. Excellent UK punk/horror I have to sell this set of my fave series ASAP because I said as a joke that I was a "wannabe" and was overheard when I said it and stuff so it's probably the talk of the town in both this and just about any other monthly series I ever subscribed to. Email me your best price- Chr. christian.eric_mumford at chello.no From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Thu Apr 8 20:28:05 2004 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 01:28:05 +0100 Subject: HW, NIK: Re: Old masters In-Reply-To: <200401261216.i0QCGM8A016314@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, M Holmes wrote: > pauleatonjones writes: > > > Does anyone > > else feel that they appear to have run out of steam, energy and, please > > forgive me on this, ideas?? > If Hawkwind have run out of steam it's because they went nuclear. I think Hawkwind have settled into being a band for the fans. So the core people, the "hardcore fans" get the Hawkfest, tours every now and then, usually good one too don't get me wrong, and passport offers that sometimes materialise. Has that "special CD for Passport holders" yet appeared? But anyway. What they're not doing is behaving like a functioning commercial band. I was, back in December this was, eagerly awaiting (knowing I wouldn't be able to afford any of them) albums by a fair number of bands who seemed set to get them all out at the same time: Hawkwind's _Take Me to Your Leader_ Space Ritual.net's as yet un-named opus Monster Magnet's _Monolithic Baby_ Orange Goblin's new one whose name I forget Clutch's _Blast Tyrant_ Ozric Tentacles' new one and Litmus's eventual debut. The stoners have got them all out (except maybe Clutch, I've seen no indication of it yet but I haven't been looking because of having no money). Even the Ozrics, who are flat broke and couldn't manage to get the band together enough to rehearse during its making, have their record out. I'm inclined to go easy on Litmus, because firstly they've surely got the material, and thirdly the closest I could press Martin to a timing was "first part of next year if we're lucky", so they have time in hand. The HW and Nikwind albums have both been `finished' for ages but still haven't appeared. In Nik's case perhaps it's due to his apparently usual fly-by-nite musical attention span and it's certainly due to a bust-up with Oz-IT manager Chris Hewitt who is allegedly (someone alleged it to me) trying to block the release, and in the case of Hawkwind heaven only know why it hasn't come out yet but it hasn't. Nor a release date nor nuffink. I threw a big strop about energy levels and accuracy of information in the Hawkwind business machine last year at about this time, and I'm not going to go over all that again, but I said then that even if the album was `finished', mixing, artwork, distribution deals, sorting out a *label*, and (okay, I didn't say this but I evilly suspect) the members who've parted ways with the group in the course of the recording refusing to sign release waivers because they can't get the recompense they want (shades of the MC5 thread... ) could hold it up *forever*. So I'm not, like, surprised, but I wonder what it is that means this afflicts this particular part of the music-making cosmos so persistently. What I have never understood, in the, what, eight years since a full studio album was last released (or, if you like, ten, since one was finished and released) is why the hell Dave doesn't just swallow his dislike of surrendering creative control, get all the band members he's currently on terms with down to the farm for a long weekend, spend it *all* jamming, and release the fifty best minutes of it. It'd be cheaper than normal recording, he could sell it over the website, we wouldn't mind (though I might still bitch, because you know, what would I have to do otherwise...) and through Andy G. and there's every chance it'd be bloody marvellous, given how the band usually play (and how even better they were playing in 2001 when I first came up with this notion). Minimum effort, could be done every year without too much cost and apart from sorting out who gets paid for what (which would really have to be done beforehand, on a contract that was then stuck to whatever was finally included), I would have thought it's an obvious way for a space-rock band to proceed, and damn if it isn't more or less how the Ozrics write, I gather, save only getting John in late on to add flute parts. But no. We get song-based albums that never happen. If Hawkwind went nuclear, it must have been cold fusion, and we're still waiting for replayable results. Yours, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Thu Apr 8 21:24:51 2004 From: deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (deadearnest) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:24:51 +0100 Subject: HW-new album Message-ID: Couple of things there. First it's my belief that the Hawkwind album was only actually finished around Christmas, maybe just after and the band were waiting for Alan Davey's new studio set-up to be put in as Alan is producing the album to all intents and purposes (mixing it anyway). As far as I know, no-one is blocking or any such like activity. As to why 8 years (is it that long-surely less) since "DH", well, could be any number of reasons, but as to the idea of jamming, it sounds sooooo attractive a proposition, but I guess that just ain't Dave's way any more. All that can be certain is if a band like Hawkwind wants to come out with what they regard as a "commercial" (volume sales) album that can stand up in a mainstream arena on a new (for them) and leading current CD label, then you have to be sure that the creative juices are flowing at a peak, and it may have taken all this time for that to happen. Who can say. All I know is, there's a lot of baited breath going on out there right now - the anticipation mounts!!!! Andy G. P.S Shameless self-plug - the Space Mirrors new album on my Dead Earnest label ( www.deadearnest.btinternet.co.uk ) is out now and already receiving good comments from Hawkwind and space-rock fans who've bought it -Aural Innovations is doing it in the USA while Dead Earnest, CDS, Rubbish and hopefully soon Freak Emporium, have it in the UK, with Swamp Room and Black Widow and Atomic Age (www.spacemirrors.com) starting things rolling in Germany/Italy/Russia respectively ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Jarrett To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 1:28 AM Subject: HW, NIK: Re: Old masters > On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, M Holmes wrote: > > > pauleatonjones writes: > > > > > Does anyone > > > else feel that they appear to have run out of steam, energy and, please > > > forgive me on this, ideas?? > > > > > If Hawkwind have run out of steam it's because they went nuclear. > > I think Hawkwind have settled into being a band for the fans. So > the core people, the "hardcore fans" get the Hawkfest, tours every now and > then, usually good one too don't get me wrong, and passport offers that > sometimes materialise. Has that "special CD for Passport holders" yet > appeared? But anyway. > > What they're not doing is behaving like a functioning commercial > band. I was, back in December this was, eagerly awaiting (knowing I > wouldn't be able to afford any of them) albums by a fair number of bands > who seemed set to get them all out at the same time: > > Hawkwind's _Take Me to Your Leader_ > Space Ritual.net's as yet un-named opus > Monster Magnet's _Monolithic Baby_ > Orange Goblin's new one whose name I forget > Clutch's _Blast Tyrant_ > Ozric Tentacles' new one > and Litmus's eventual debut. > From paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK Fri Apr 9 16:24:16 2004 From: paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK (pauleatonjones) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:24:16 +0100 Subject: HW/BOC: My top15 Moorcock paperback novels In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20040407065158.00984420@mail.chello.no> Message-ID: And here's my top 10-15: The Sailor On The Seas Of Fate King Of The City The English Assassin An Alien Heat The Entropy Tango Una Persson And Catherine Cornelius My Experiences In The Third World War Stormbringer A Cure For Cancer The Hollow Lands The End Of All Songs. The Quest For Tanelorn The Stealer Of Souls The Sleeping Sorceress (a good read and I also had a cat called Myshella) The Distant Suns Ok one is a hard-back and one a comic book in which case add The Codition Of Muzak and Gloriana ( the original version) Paul. On Wednesday, Apr 7, 2004, at 14:53 Europe/London, Christian wrote: > "The Ice Schooner" ("Ulrik Skarsol" character) > "The Return Of The Fireclown" > "The Swords Trilogy" (first "Corum" trilogy of novels) > "The City In The Autumn Stars" > "The Warlord Of The Air" ("Oswald Bastable" character) > "Sailor On The Seas Of Fate" (2nd "Elric" novel) > "The Weird Of The White Wolf" (3rd "Elric" novel) > "Stormbringer" (6th "Elric" novel) > "Elric At The End Of Time" > "The Jewel In The Skull" (first "Hawkmoon" novel) > "The Russian Intelligence" ("Jerry Cornell" character, New English > Library) > "The Cornelius Chronicles" (Omnibus of the first four "Jerry > Cornelius" novels) > From Brian.coulthard at LYCOS.CO.UK Sat Apr 10 08:20:38 2004 From: Brian.coulthard at LYCOS.CO.UK (Brian Coulthard) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:20:38 +0100 Subject: HW/BOC: My top15 Moorcock paperback novels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All time face Stormbringer Quest for Tanelorn (I live in a house called Tanelorn) Behold the Man Knight of Swords Elric of Melnibone Queen of Swords Jewel in the Skull Count Brass Dreaming City Sailor on the Seas of Fate The Runestaff King of Swords The Second Corum trilogy And loads more -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of pauleatonjones Sent: 09 April 2004 21:24 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: HW/BOC: My top15 Moorcock paperback novels And here's my top 10-15: The Sailor On The Seas Of Fate King Of The City The English Assassin An Alien Heat The Entropy Tango Una Persson And Catherine Cornelius My Experiences In The Third World War Stormbringer A Cure For Cancer The Hollow Lands The End Of All Songs. The Quest For Tanelorn The Stealer Of Souls The Sleeping Sorceress (a good read and I also had a cat called Myshella) The Distant Suns Ok one is a hard-back and one a comic book in which case add The Codition Of Muzak and Gloriana ( the original version) Paul. On Wednesday, Apr 7, 2004, at 14:53 Europe/London, Christian wrote: > "The Ice Schooner" ("Ulrik Skarsol" character) > "The Return Of The Fireclown" > "The Swords Trilogy" (first "Corum" trilogy of novels) > "The City In The Autumn Stars" > "The Warlord Of The Air" ("Oswald Bastable" character) "Sailor On The > Seas Of Fate" (2nd "Elric" novel) "The Weird Of The White Wolf" (3rd > "Elric" novel) "Stormbringer" (6th "Elric" novel) > "Elric At The End Of Time" > "The Jewel In The Skull" (first "Hawkmoon" novel) > "The Russian Intelligence" ("Jerry Cornell" character, New English > Library) > "The Cornelius Chronicles" (Omnibus of the first four "Jerry > Cornelius" novels) > From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Sat Apr 10 10:38:37 2004 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:38:37 +0100 Subject: OFF: what is your top 5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Doug Pearson wrote: > They managed to find the take with Syd of Kevin Ayers' "Singing a Song In > The Morning" for the recent reissue of 'Joy Of A Toy', so that would seem > to bode well for this possibility ... (and with today's technology, if the > tape exists at all, it can be *made* playable, and then "fixed" pretty > well digitally) Some kind of source for much of this stuff seems to exist, as a year or two ago when I was still inhabiting parts of Usenet I observed a post to alt.music.psychedelic informing the world that some Barrett fan organisation were compiling a six- (six!) CD-R set of his entire recordings; it was a subscription thing, and spoke deeply to me of utter fanaticism :-) Can't remember what was on it but a Google search on the group for some string should... Ah yes! a *12*-CD-R set, my mistake! See: Apologies for the long URL: I searched for "Vegetable Man" in alt.music.psychedelic and it came up first hit. Only tracklists the Floyd and solo stuff however so I can't tell you if that one you mention was in there :-) > (now, if they could only officially release the Pink Floyd recordings > of "King Bee", "Lucy Leave", "Scream thy Last Scream" and "Vegetable > Man" ...) Hell yeah. Another of my pet things EMI should do (after rereleasing _Warrior_, ASAM, _Quark_ and _25 Years On_ of course) is do another little EP-let like their _1967: The First Three Singles_ is one called something like _The Next Three Singles_ with that stuff, `Point Me at the Sky' and `It Would Be So Nice' on it, just to get it all out there *once*... It's not as if it wouldn't sell. But maybe it wouldn't sell *enough*... Yours, Jon n/p: Jon Spencer Blues Explosion - `Attack' -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From sloterdijk at MSN.COM Sat Apr 10 12:58:20 2004 From: sloterdijk at MSN.COM (Burro Mike) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:58:20 +0000 Subject: SLOTERDIJK@ Philadelphia Electronic Art & Music Fest: 5/1-2/04 ( FREE FESIVAL) Message-ID: Greetings friends, it is with great pleasure that I am announcing the appearance of SLOTERDIJK at The Philadelphia Electronic Art & Music Festival. The fest is running May 1 & 2 at The University of Pennsylvania's 'Rotunda building' ( great acoustics, as we've played there before). This is a FREE FESTIVAL with many many artists scheduled to perform, and exhibit. Unfortunately I have not yet been informed as to which day we will be playing. Feel free to ask the organizers, by e-mailing them via the website URL below: http://www.pemafest.fkon.com/ There you'll see a list of performers, exhibitors etc..Once I receive confirmation of the date, I'll pass it on. This is likely to be one of the only 'full tilt' electronic shows that Sloterdijk will play this entire summer/fall or even year, so please come check it out if you can. Sloterdijk will be performing a psychedelic ambient trance set, with oratory explorations. Peace, Mike Burro ( Sloterdijk) lineup: Mike Burro: synths/programming/guitars/vocals Jay Adcock: synths/programming Dr. Maria Ramundo: synth/darbuka _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp From sloterdijk at MSN.COM Mon Apr 12 11:47:38 2004 From: sloterdijk at MSN.COM (Burro Mike) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:47:38 +0000 Subject: Tom Byrne to join OEB lineup for Cardiff Meltdown on June 17th ( tourdates) Message-ID: We are pleased to announce that composer Tom Byrne will be joining our lineup at Cardiff's 'Toucan Club' on June 17th. This show is really beginning to take shape, and looks to be developing into a real 'Implosion'. It's a triple bill with 'The Bard of Ely', The One Eyed Bishops, & The Phasers, complete with psychedelic lighting etc. This show is very tied to our of goal of bringing attention to the enviromental destruction going on within some of Wales' most ancient and sacred woods. It's ineveitable that this energy will effect the performances, and the audience, so if you are nearby, come and help us 'keep the spirit of the wood alive'!!!!! Peace, Mike Burro PS: In addition to our usual numbers, we are planning to do a 'set within a set' consisting of a few Hawkwind favorites!!! PPS: additional OEB personnel for this show TBA One Eyed Bishops UK tour itinerary: dates & personnel; June 11-19-2004 The One Eyed Bishops are pleased to announce the following confirmed dates for their 'Spirit of The Wood' UK Tour 2004 * The tour was named 'Spirit of The Wood' to bring attention to conservation issues and to uplift 'all things green'. We have chosen one particular environmental nightmare to champion on the road, that being the fate of the ancient St. David's Wood, in Blackwood, South Wales. There are literally thousands of trees awaiting the axe and hundreds that have already been felled. All this for a short stretch of new road. For complete details of this debacle, We encourage you to visit http://www.warband.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1074211424;start= June 11th: Barnet, Herfordshire: 'The Greenman' http://www.thegreenmanbarnet.co.uk ( see special announcement) Special lineup for this show includes: Mike Burro: guitar & vocals Paul Hirsh: ( Voyager, Status Quo) http://www.paul-hirsh.com Mitch 'The Harp Hog' Logan: ( harmonicas) Phil Smith: lead guitars http://www.headsmith.co.uk Andy Roberts: bass guitars http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AndyOnBass/ Dr. Maria Ramundo: Darbuka Roger Woods: Drumkit June 12th: Bicester, Oxforshire: 'Celebrationfest' http://www.assassinsofsilence.com ( see gigs) Open aire festival organized by top class Hawkwind tribute, Assassins of Silence. Confirmed bands at this time: Assassins of Silence, Andensum, Bruce's Spider, Anomie, The One Eyed Bishops, Flat Rabbit, Dr. Brown, Hope & Glory( plus extra special guest TBA) Links to individual band websites can be found at the URL above. Also direct any questions through the 'contact' link on the Assassins' website. OEB lineup at this time: Mike Burro: guitar & vocals Phil Smith: lead guitars Kev Ellis: Harmonicas ( Dr. Brown, Majik Cat) Grant Mcnaughton: bass ( Dr. Brown) Dr. Maria Ramundo: darbuka June 15: Portsmouth, Hampshire, RMA Tavern Cromwell Rd. Eastney (023) 9282 0896 special guest player, Kev Ellis ( Dr.Brown, Magic Cat) see the Dr. Brown website at: http://www.btinternet.com/~themagiccat/drbrown/drbrown.html This show in conjuntion with Barking Spider Productions: http://www.barkingspider.abelgratis.com 07970 95973 spiderpromos at aol.com lineup: Mike Burro: guitar & vocals Phil Smith: lead guitars Kev Ellis: Harmonicas Dr. Maria Ramundo: darbuka June 17th: Cardiff, Wales: The Toucan http://www.toucanclub.co.uk triple bill with Steve Andrews, aka 'The Bard of Ely', and Welsh Space Rock band 'The Phasers' The Bard, The Bishops & The Phasers will be playing seperate sets, but don't be suprised to see them sitting in with one another and joining others for a psychedelic spacerock jam!!! check out: The Bard of Ely: http://bardofely.com The Phasers: http://www.thephasers.co.uk OEB lineup at this time: Mike Burro: guitar & vocals Phil Smith: lead guitars Dr. Maria Ramundo: darbuka Tom Byrne: synths http://www.soundclick.com/pro/default.cfm?BandID=121360 June 19th: Ramsbottom ( near Manchester): 'Ramsbottom International Rhythm & Blues Festival' 2 shows: Clarence Hotel: 1:00-2:15PM Grants Hotel: 5:15-6:30 For additional information, address enquiries to: razorbackandkingbees at yahoo.co.uk This is going to be a great festival and will run from June 18th-20th, with multiple venues, stages and performers. There is alink with additional information at: http://www.themet.biz ( see the 'What's On' section for June 18th-20th) OEB lineup at this time: Mike Burro: guitar & vocals 'Wild' Bob Burgos: drums ( Lord Sutch, Wild Angels, etc) http://www.wildbobburgos.co.uk./ Phil Smith: lead guitars Maria Ramundo: darbuka See below for more complete band listing: 2004 RAMSBOTTOM INTERNATIONAL R&B FESTIVAL FRI 18TH/SAT 19TH/ SUN 20TH JUNE 2004 VENUES Ramsbottom Civic Hall - Main Stage Royal Oak Hotel - Roadhouse Venue Clarence Hotel - Roadhouse Venue Grants Hotel - Roadhouse Venue HEADLINE BANDS MICK ABRAHAMS, SLACK ALICE, MICHAEL ROACH, ADRIAN BYRON-BURNS ( Plus others ,final line up yet to be confirmed) MAIN STAGE SUPPORT BANDS ( All confirmed) BLUESLINE, THE MARAUDERS, DONNIE JOHNSON & TIM DISNEY, SWAMPNOBS, GILES, SNATCHINITBACK. ROADHOUSE BANDS ( All confirmed ) RINGMEISTERS, IN YA FACE, THE CAHONIES, ONE EYED BISHOPS, BLUES BLASTERS, NICK DOW BLUES BAND, AFTER HOURS BLUES BAND, PHIL MAHON, STONE SOLE RIVER, THE INVENTORS, GED BEDROCK, THE JOHNNY FRIENDLIES, THE WILLIAM TANG BLUES BAND, THE RHYTHMAIRES, THE MARIA BROTHERS BLUES BAND, HIRED GUN, COLD FLAME, RONNIE ?RAZORBACK? GIBSON & THE KING BEES ROADHOUSE BANDS ( Yet to confirm ) GAS COMPANY, THE ROACH TWINS ADDITIONAL ATTRACTIONS ELR ( East Lancashire Railway) will be running a Steam Hauled ?Blues Train? from Bury to Ramsbottom throughout the festival. The train will feature ? live acoustic blues ? on board. Bury ELR Station is a short walk from the Bury Metrolink Tram Station ,which links to Central Manchester ( 20 mins) and Main Line Stations. There will also be a street market on the closed streets of this picturesque village ( 15 miles north of Manchester ), which has been used as the location for many TV programmes and Films. Cheers! Mike Burro http://theoneeyedbishops.iuma.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ? FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK Tue Apr 13 05:24:08 2004 From: maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK (Maxine Wesley) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:24:08 +0100 Subject: Hawkwind - Portsmouth Message-ID: Hi A while ago someone asked for a decent pub near to the venue which sold real ale - the best i can come up with is the Apsley House, Auckland Road. The landlord is mad but it's a friendly local pub, sells a few real ales and is only about 5 mins walk from the Pyramids across the common. Search on multimap to locate the map or email me for directions? best regards see y'all there Maxine From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 13 07:14:07 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:14:07 +0100 Subject: Brookmyre and Kollectors Message-ID: Just got this in another forum: > Off at a tangent Mike, but have you read the latest book by > Christopher Brookmyre called "Be My Enemy"? There's a reference in it > to how men like to amass collections of rather odd things and one of > the examples given is of a middle-aged bloke who collects anything to > do with Hawkwind. Thought you might appreciate that..... So the question is: which one of us does Brookmyre know? FoFP From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Tue Apr 13 19:01:35 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:01:35 -0700 Subject: HW: musings on "Alien 4/"Love In Space" 1995/1996... Message-ID: .... I thought "Alien 4" quite the highlight CD of Hawkwind's 90's output, except that the sides got torn where you slide the disc in... I am quite the romantic with this CD... a tasty little package for old Hawkwind fans with Ron Trees debut in studio. I don't know if there was a jewel case version for this rather nice EBS release, which, I presume would have been on Griffin. Some people have me framed as a liar who didn't have this CD for real, as someone who just talks about it without ever having owned it, which is not true at all..... From my website: " I just thought the "Alien4" album was too slickly produced and that the music was too simplistic, and the overall effect was a bit "blah", despite a nice digipak and everything. I never knew there a jewel case edition of this thing until years later. Was the jewel case edition released on Griffin or something? My digipak was on EBS, of course. I got it at Free Record Shop in Oslo in 1995 when it just came out, in fact. Highlight tracks included for me "Sputnik Stan", "Beam Me Up", "Blue Skin" and "Festivals". Dandy little booklet with some nice illustrations, though! I truly hated "Love In Space" by the way, their suckiest live set in years, IMO. Nifty robot of Ron's onstage, though. I have the video so I should know. Did he ever get to sell the thing? Great stage show on the tour despite suckily and over slicked up production detracting from the band's live sound, I thought, though the video isn't half bad. Alien 4 had a cool pic of an alien peeking at a pregnant lady too on the cover if I remember correctly! My problem with the digipak was that the sides got torn where you slide the disc in, other than that it was very nice, I may have seen the jewel case version somewhere but wouldn't want it for all the world, though. Christian, probably aka Ax Gengrich or somebody equally qualified on these matters of digipaks and things "you shouldn't get a dog if you've already got a cat" I was just thinking about Ron Tree and Captain Rizz and how much they contributed to the Hawkwind sound in the latter half of the 90's. Ron Tree (Bastard) always seemed like the new Nik Turner to me, bringing a punk edge to the band again unheard since the 80's with stuff like "Reptoid Vision" and "Phetamine Street" and the giant stage prop robot. When I saw them in NYC in '95 he just blew me away in full flight goggles and a fluorescent paint spattered lab coat doing "Master Of The Universe" and "Urban Guerilla", it was hardcore at its best with the subtle reggae bits in Urban Guerilla really making the grade too. I also liked his version of "Lord Of Light" on the "Love In Space" EP and some of stuff off "Alien 4" as well like "Beam Me Up" and stuff. Anyway, as for Captain Rizz, I thought him such a wise Rastafarian philosopher of The Apocalypse (as Ron Tree also seemed such a philospher on the Apocalypse too with "I am The Reptoid") that he just made the grade as full time member in my opinion. His whole thing on "Wheels" about oil and the rap that goes "Hawkwind's in your area, Hawkwind's on your land" was just great. In spite of what people have said about him, I just thought he added to the spirit and anarchy of the Hawkwind spirit that made Hawkwind so great in the early and mid 80's with Harvey Bainbridge, Danny Thompson, Nik Turner, Alan Davey and Huw Lloyd-Langton and the rest of the members in the band. It's great to know Huw and Alan (Ali) are back in the band but shouldn't there be a fully fledged new studio album in the works from this rejuvinated classic 80's lineup? Anyway, I just had to ease my mind about Ron and Rizz because it's been on my mind for awhile. Do any other Hawkwind-deadheads share my opinions on them? Aren't they the two wisemen of the Apocalypse?? " Chr. From michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU Tue Apr 13 10:29:56 2004 From: michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU (MiChAeL "aLiEn DrEaM" bLaCkMaN) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:59:56 +0930 Subject: musings on "Alien 4/"Love In Space" 1995/1996... Message-ID: I've got Allieen 4 both on digi and Jewel case and love in space in digi. I'm pretty sure the jewel allieen 4 is ebs not griffin I thinks its an awesome album and the music is hot hot hot - good album to listen to whilst stoned - SORRY KIDS and remember - dont say say NO to drugs..... say no thank you (its more polite) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:31 AM Subject: HW: musings on "Alien 4/"Love In Space" 1995/1996... > .... I thought "Alien 4" quite the highlight CD of Hawkwind's 90's output, > except that the sides got torn where you slide the disc in... I am quite > the romantic with this CD... a tasty little package for old Hawkwind fans > with Ron Trees debut in studio. I don't know if there was a jewel case > version for this rather nice EBS release, which, I presume would have been > on Griffin. Some people have me framed as a liar who didn't have this CD > for real, as someone who just talks about it without ever having owned it, > which is not true at all..... From my website: > > " I just thought the "Alien4" album was too slickly produced and that the > music was too simplistic, and the overall effect was a bit "blah", despite > a nice digipak and everything. I never knew there a jewel case edition of > this thing until years later. Was the jewel case edition released on > Griffin or something? My digipak was on EBS, of course. I got it at Free > Record Shop in Oslo in 1995 when it just came out, in fact. Highlight > tracks included for me "Sputnik Stan", "Beam Me Up", "Blue Skin" and > "Festivals". Dandy little booklet with some nice illustrations, though! I > truly hated "Love In Space" by the way, their suckiest live set in years, > IMO. Nifty robot of Ron's onstage, though. I have the video so I should > know. Did he ever get to sell the thing? Great stage show on the tour > despite suckily and over slicked up production detracting from the band's > live sound, I thought, though the video isn't half bad. Alien 4 had a cool > pic of an alien peeking at a pregnant lady too on the cover if I remember > correctly! My problem with the digipak was that the sides got torn where > you slide the disc in, other than that it was very nice, I may have seen > the jewel case version somewhere but wouldn't want it for all the world, > though. > > Christian, probably aka Ax Gengrich or somebody equally qualified on these > matters of digipaks and things > > "you shouldn't get a dog if you've already got a cat" > > I was just thinking about Ron Tree and Captain Rizz and how much they > contributed to the Hawkwind sound in the latter half of the 90's. Ron Tree > (Bastard) always seemed like the new Nik Turner to me, bringing a punk edge > to the band again unheard since the 80's with stuff like "Reptoid Vision" > and "Phetamine Street" and the giant stage prop robot. When I saw them in > NYC in '95 he just blew me away in full flight goggles and a fluorescent > paint spattered lab coat doing "Master Of The Universe" and "Urban > Guerilla", it was hardcore at its best with the subtle reggae bits in Urban > Guerilla really making the grade too. I also liked his version of "Lord Of > Light" on the "Love In Space" EP and some of stuff off "Alien 4" as well > like "Beam Me Up" and stuff. Anyway, as for Captain Rizz, I thought him > such a wise Rastafarian philosopher of The Apocalypse (as Ron Tree also > seemed such a philospher on the Apocalypse too with "I am The Reptoid") > that he just made the grade as full time member in my opinion. His whole > thing on "Wheels" about oil and the rap that goes "Hawkwind's in your area, > Hawkwind's on your land" was just great. In spite of what people have said > about him, I just thought he added to the spirit and anarchy of the > Hawkwind spirit that made Hawkwind so great in the early and mid 80's with > Harvey Bainbridge, Danny Thompson, Nik Turner, Alan Davey and Huw > Lloyd-Langton and the rest of the members in the band. It's great to know > Huw and Alan (Ali) are back in the band but shouldn't there be a fully > fledged new studio album in the works from this rejuvinated classic 80's > lineup? > > Anyway, I just had to ease my mind about Ron and Rizz because it's been on > my mind for awhile. Do any other Hawkwind-deadheads share my opinions on > them? Aren't they the two wisemen of the Apocalypse?? " > Chr. > From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Tue Apr 13 21:13:43 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:13:43 -0700 Subject: HW: best "Silver Machine" versions? Message-ID: The one on "Space Rock From London" Genschman bootleg which fades into "Welcome To The Future" IMHO....furious and energetic!!! The official BBC version of the same show doesen't sound as cool as the Genschman... I used to have both versions just to be complete... and just for the record! Chr. From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Tue Apr 13 22:35:07 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:35:07 -0700 Subject: musings on "Alien 4/"Love In Space" 1995/1996... In-Reply-To: <001501c42163$cb088a70$49c98890@DrSBlackman> Message-ID: At 23:59 13.04.04 +0930, you wrote: >I've got Allieen 4 both on digi and Jewel case and love in space in digi. >I'm pretty sure the jewel allieen 4 is ebs not griffin I swear the whole truth that I only had the *original* UK *digipak* version on Emergency Broadcast System which, IMO, was far more stylish than any jewel case US version would have been. Like an LP, cardboard only. I swear a holy oath that I only had the UK digipak version but yet I am blacklisted in Hawkwind fandom for mentioning the US version of "Alien 4" because then I would be a wannabe! thanks for your support!! Chr. >I thinks its an awesome album and the music is hot hot hot - good album to >listen to whilst stoned - SORRY KIDS and remember - dont say say NO to >drugs..... say no thank you (its more polite) Yes it quite the druggy little digipak! Great booklet with great artwork... Chr. From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Tue Apr 13 23:07:36 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:07:36 -0700 Subject: OFF: todays bargain CD purchase In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20040413192743.00989ad0@mail.chello.no> Message-ID: ..namely the remaster of Mot?rhead's "On Parole"- it must be the second time I have this version, I also had the s/t one with similar tracks but I sold that too. "On Parole" is punkier and not as muddy sounding. I also got Entombed's "Same Difference" (1998), which IMO isn't that great with a bundle of straight non metal influences except "20/20 vision" which is strangely similar to the song "Motorhead". Anyway, I got both these on a twofer deal of 100NOK (about $14 for both CD's) Chr. From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 14 02:03:20 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:03:20 -0700 Subject: OFF/HW: Where Lemmy got the title for "Hammered"... Message-ID: ... yet also being an awesome CD and I am sure Lemmy must have taken/ecstracted the album title "Hammered" from my live Mot?rhead and Vo?vod live reviews posted in alt.punk ca. march/april/may 2001 which also are posted on my website: Mot?rhead, Stone Pony show 1995: "...more or less driven by that current superfast and pumped-up robotic bleach-blonde Swedish barbarian drummer who hammers through Mot?rhead's reportoire these days....." ^^^^^^^^^^ Vo?vod, Oslo show 1997: ".... a freak speed/thrashmetal act like Vo?vod more or less crossing over into hardcore or punk under the lack of anything else more obvious... Indeed, it was a great fucking night overall, and I didn't get too hammered, anyway. " ^^^^^^^^ -Christian "The Elkhund National Trumpeteer & Gothic Sausage" From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 14 02:09:17 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:09:17 -0700 Subject: OFF/HW: Pink Fairies - "Live At The Roundhouse/Live And Unreleased/Twink '77" CD Message-ID: I had this essential Pink Fairies compilation on Big Beat (stolen two years ago with a bag of other wondrous and rare CD's). "Live At The Roundhouse" and "Live And Unreleased", the latter in particular, being with Larry Wallis at the helm (ca. 1975) and is friggin awesome with stuff like "Waiting For The Lightening To Strike" and "It's Never Coming Back again" are just incredible pre-Mot?rhead nuggets- also the tracks on "Live At The Roundhouse" are excellent though a different lineup, stuff like the Velvets cover and "Uncle Harry's Last Freakout" which is truly awesome stuff. Chr. From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 14 02:36:32 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:36:32 -0700 Subject: OFF/HW: "birds of a feather" Message-ID: if you could choose what would you pick? Ron Tree In Luxembourg or Dave Wyndorf in Grenoble??? Whistle Blower / Indian Runner??? Johnny Rotten or Freddy Mercury??? Armored Saint or AC/DC??? wouldn't you also choose Eurosport in Germany and be the lucky winner. or would you speak the Queen's English or would you spot the pidgeon? Would you be going to San Fransisco??? Chr. (The Elkhund National!) From deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Tue Apr 13 18:51:06 2004 From: deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (deadearnest) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:51:06 +0100 Subject: best "Silver Machine" versions? Message-ID: probably because the BBC one is in mono!!!!!!!!! Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:13 AM Subject: HW: best "Silver Machine" versions? > The one on "Space Rock From London" Genschman bootleg which fades into > "Welcome To The Future" IMHO....furious and energetic!!! > > The official BBC version of the same show doesen't sound as cool as the > Genschman... I used to have both versions just to be complete... and just > for the record! > > Chr. From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Tue Apr 13 20:10:06 2004 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:10:06 +0100 Subject: todays bargain CD purchase Message-ID: Much as I hate to agree with Christian, he's right y'know. Get the vinyl version on United Artists with the white sleeve - don't bother with the re-released version that has a photo of the Lemster on the front and the words in a garish yellow and orange. Get the real thing. The version of Motorhead on it is the definitive version. No arguments. ;-) Cheers, Rich. > ..namely the remaster of Mot?rhead's "On Parole"- it must be the second > time I have this version, I also had the s/t one with similar tracks but I > sold that too. "On Parole" is punkier and not as muddy sounding. From christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO Wed Apr 14 05:08:43 2004 From: christian.eric_mumford at CHELLO.NO (Christian) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:08:43 -0700 Subject: todays bargain CD purchase In-Reply-To: <0a5501c421b4$d79cbda0$0100a8c0@NoddyHolder> Message-ID: At 01:10 14.04.04 +0100, you wrote: >Much as I hate to agree with Christian, he's right y'know. > >Get the vinyl version on United Artists with the white sleeve - don't bother >with the re-released version that has a photo of the Lemster on the front >and the words in a garish yellow and orange. Get the real thing. > >The version of Motorhead on it is the definitive version. > >No arguments. > >;-) > >Cheers, > >Rich. I had the s/t Chiswick CD (with pink lettering on black with a white Mot?rhead skull). I think I like the "On Parole" better, more punky and crisp and not as muddy though I like both versions. Chr. > > ..namely the remaster of Mot?rhead's "On Parole"- it must be the second > > time I have this version, I also had the s/t one with similar tracks but I > > sold that too. "On Parole" is punkier and not as muddy sounding. From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Tue Apr 13 20:34:24 2004 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:34:24 -0400 Subject: todays bargain CD purchase In-Reply-To: <0a5501c421b4$d79cbda0$0100a8c0@NoddyHolder> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 01:10:06AM +0100, Richard Lockwood wrote: => Much as I hate to agree with Christian, he's right y'know. => => Get the vinyl version on United Artists with the white sleeve - don't bother => with the re-released version that has a photo of the Lemster on the front => and the words in a garish yellow and orange. Get the real thing. The EMI remaster CD (white cover w/black lettering and logo; liner notes by Mick Farren) sounds really nice, IMHO. It also contains bonus material. Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Apr 14 05:35:24 2004 From: eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM (eddie jobson) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:35:24 +0000 Subject: HW:The Complete Set Message-ID: My order arrived from Amazon yesterday and 'The Conplete Set' comprises of 2 Michael Butterworth books, Queens of Deliria and Time of the Hawklords (neither of which I had) and a CD Thrilling Hawkwind Adventures (which I did). Not what I expected but ok for ?12 I suppose. Eddie. _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM Wed Apr 14 14:35:58 2004 From: nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM (nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:35:58 -0400 Subject: BOC: cool collectible Message-ID: http://www.dangerousage.com/boccurse.html From horse at DARKSTAR.UK.NET Thu Apr 15 04:13:57 2004 From: horse at DARKSTAR.UK.NET (Horse) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:57 +0100 Subject: Hawkwind Support at Norwich In-Reply-To: <200404141835.i3EIZwQY9569245@www1502.boca15-verio.com> Message-ID: Does anyone know who's supporting Hawkwind at the Norwich gig? Horse From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Apr 16 09:34:50 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:34:50 +0100 Subject: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected Message-ID: http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html?tag=nefd_top From judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Apr 16 11:54:37 2004 From: judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM (trev) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:54:37 +0100 Subject: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected Message-ID: Yes, this only goes to confirm my belief that the drop in record sales has resulted from the music industry's gross ignorance as to the nature of their product. These get-rich-quick elitist, shop-keeper-mentality morons do not believe that the quality of music product has any bearing at all on sales. I spoke with a very prominent entrepreneur recently who said as much, forcing me to punch his face in (not really but i wanted to). Just imagine if Hendrix couldn't play guitar. Would he have become the legend he is? According to the current music biz mentality, the answer would be "Yes". Music is an art form which can give deep and lasting benefits to the listener resulting in that listener wanting more. Music based solely on fashion is transient. For the past 3 months I have been approaching record companies re the new Mother of All Bands album by Ron Tree and myself. Half didn't even want to hear it. 90% of the rest gave no reply. In my own opinion, and in Ron's, this album is the best either of us have ever made, including all the Hawkwind and Inner City Unit albums we have been part of. If nothing comes of this venture I will give up playing music and start a new career as a rec. co. executive serial killer! Better still, I could compile a "Death List" and publish it on the web, so if you happen to live near any of those named, you could pop in to their office and kill 'em. All those willing to take part in this liberating venture contact me at: RFM - Real Festival Music http://www.realfestivalmusic.co.uk Festival Cd's, Reviews, Vids, Downloads, Forum, Healers, News Judge Trev ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html?tag=nefd_top > From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Fri Apr 16 15:51:25 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:51:25 -0400 Subject: OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:54:37 +0100, trev wrote: >Yes, this only goes to confirm my belief that the drop in record sales has >resulted from the music industry's gross ignorance as to the nature of >their product. These get-rich-quick elitist, shop-keeper-mentality >morons do not believe that the quality of music product has any bearing >at all on sales. Actually, I agree with that. Most of the consumer audience for music (or movies, or even books) do not want quality material (even if they say they do). Just look at the best-seller charts. >For the past 3 months I have been approaching record companies re the new >Mother of All Bands album by Ron Tree and myself. Half didn't even want >to hear it. 90% of the rest gave no reply. In my own opinion, and in >Ron's, this album is the best either of us have ever made, including all >the Hawkwind and Inner City Unit albums we have been part of. If nothing >comes of this venture I will give up playing music and start a new career >as a rec. co. executive serial killer! Trust me, you don't want to get involved with those record companies. I know a band who are about to sign with a Los Angeles-based major label (whose name rhymes with "winter dope"), and the contract they're being offered is NOTHING more than a money-laundering scam by the label. Basically, they're being force-fed a deal where they HAVE to take a large advance (which means that they won't make any money afterwards unless their album goes gold), AND they have to SPEND the large advance at the label's chosen studio, with the label's chosen producer (). It's as if you went to the bank for a loan to buy an automobile, and the bank will only give you the loan if you buy from their "preferred" dealer, who happens to charge $2000 more for the same car than every other auto dealer in town. If their album *doesn't* go gold, they'll be rapidly dropped by the label, still owing the label all of their advance (which they never even got to see because it went straight to the label's chosen producer & studio), which means that they will no longer be able to perform or record under their own name without getting sued by said label. (Oh, and in case you're wondering WHY a major label might be interested in this band [besides the fact that they *are* very good at what they do, and *are* great at motivating audiences]: their just-turned-21 female singer/bassist/violinist usually performs wearing not a whole lot more than Stacia did with Hawkwind. I love Trev's & Ron's music, but guys - PLEASE don't try this!!!) -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Apr 16 17:49:12 2004 From: judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM (trev) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:49:12 +0100 Subject: OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected Message-ID: No we won't try that Doug. I've heard of that kind of thing happening before, especially the "here's the advance but you have to spend it in our studios" - ha ha. Thats not really an advance is it - it's a con. We're looking for a deal that makes sense for both parties, whatever the size of the company. There is not even a whiff of interest anywhere at all. No, I still think the serial killing is the best idea. I'll be posting a list soon with names and addresses. he he trev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Pearson" To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: Re: OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:54:37 +0100, trev wrote: > > >Yes, this only goes to confirm my belief that the drop in record sales has > >resulted from the music industry's gross ignorance as to the nature of > >their product. These get-rich-quick elitist, shop-keeper-mentality > >morons do not believe that the quality of music product has any bearing > >at all on sales. > > Actually, I agree with that. Most of the consumer audience for music (or > movies, or even books) do not want quality material (even if they say they > do). Just look at the best-seller charts. > > >For the past 3 months I have been approaching record companies re the new > >Mother of All Bands album by Ron Tree and myself. Half didn't even want > >to hear it. 90% of the rest gave no reply. In my own opinion, and in > >Ron's, this album is the best either of us have ever made, including all > >the Hawkwind and Inner City Unit albums we have been part of. If nothing > >comes of this venture I will give up playing music and start a new career > >as a rec. co. executive serial killer! > > Trust me, you don't want to get involved with those record companies. > > > I know a band who are about to sign with a Los Angeles-based major label > (whose name rhymes with "winter dope"), and the contract they're being > offered is NOTHING more than a money-laundering scam by the label. > Basically, they're being force-fed a deal where they HAVE to take a large > advance (which means that they won't make any money afterwards unless > their album goes gold), AND they have to SPEND the large advance at the > label's chosen studio, with the label's chosen producer (). It's as if > you went to the bank for a loan to buy an automobile, and the bank will > only give you the loan if you buy from their "preferred" dealer, who > happens to charge $2000 more for the same car than every other auto dealer > in town. If their album *doesn't* go gold, they'll be rapidly dropped by > the label, still owing the label all of their advance (which they never > even got to see because it went straight to the label's chosen producer & > studio), which means that they will no longer be able to perform or record > under their own name without getting sued by said label. > > (Oh, and in case you're wondering WHY a major label might be interested in > this band [besides the fact that they *are* very good at what they do, and > *are* great at motivating audiences]: their just-turned-21 female > singer/bassist/violinist usually performs wearing not a whole lot more > than Stacia did with Hawkwind. I love Trev's & Ron's music, but guys - > PLEASE don't try this!!!) > > > -Doug > jasret at mindspring.com > From thelastdruids at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Apr 17 07:17:13 2004 From: thelastdruids at HOTMAIL.COM (Tom Byrne) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:17:13 +0100 Subject: Download Research Shows Sales Unaffected Message-ID: Personally I think the internet has done wonders for music. Just take a browse through some of the artists at www.soundclick.com (present company excepted, ahem) I don't think there's going to be a lot of money in unpackaged music though (ie anything that's not Kylie or Robbie) - there are a lot of people producing it cheaply and distributing it for very little. It's a bit like the invention of printing - unless there's a high volume distribution the production of individual items becomes uneconomic, and unattractive for companies with high fixed costs. Maybe that's one of the reasons why so many monsteries went bust in the 16th Century! I think good music is fast becoming a cottage industry (and I don't mean that in the George Michael sense!) Regards Tom >From: Automatic digest processor >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >To: Recipients of BOC-L digests >Subject: BOC-L Digest - 16 Apr 2004 to 17 Apr 2004 (#2004-96) >Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 05:00:01 -0400 > >There are 4 messages totalling 190 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. Dowload research shows record sales unaffected (2) > 2. OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected (2) > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:34:50 +0100 >From: M Holmes >Subject: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > >http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html?tag=nefd_top > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:54:37 +0100 >From: trev >Subject: Re: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > >Yes, this only goes to confirm my belief that the drop in record sales has >resulted from the music industry's gross ignorance as to the nature of >their >product. These get-rich-quick elitist, shop-keeper-mentality morons do not >believe that the quality of music product has any bearing at all on sales. >I spoke with a very prominent entrepreneur recently who said as much, >forcing me to punch his face in (not really but i wanted to). Just imagine >if Hendrix couldn't play guitar. Would he have become the legend he is? >According to the current music biz mentality, the answer would be "Yes". >Music is an art form which can give deep and lasting benefits to the >listener resulting in that listener wanting more. Music based solely on >fashion is transient. >For the past 3 months I have been approaching record companies re the new >Mother of All Bands album by Ron Tree and myself. Half didn't even want to >hear it. 90% of the rest gave no reply. In my own opinion, and in Ron's, >this album is the best either of us have ever made, including all the >Hawkwind and Inner City Unit albums we have been part of. If nothing comes >of this venture I will give up playing music and start a new career as a >rec. co. executive serial killer! >Better still, I could compile a "Death List" and publish it on the web, so >if you happen to live near any of those named, you could pop in to their >office and kill 'em. >All those willing to take part in this liberating venture contact me at: >RFM - Real Festival Music http://www.realfestivalmusic.co.uk >Festival Cd's, Reviews, Vids, Downloads, Forum, Healers, News > >Judge Trev > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "M Holmes" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 2:34 PM >Subject: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > > > > http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html?tag=nefd_top > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:51:25 -0400 >From: Doug Pearson >Subject: Re: OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > >On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:54:37 +0100, trev wrote: > > >Yes, this only goes to confirm my belief that the drop in record sales >has > >resulted from the music industry's gross ignorance as to the nature of > >their product. These get-rich-quick elitist, shop-keeper-mentality > >morons do not believe that the quality of music product has any bearing > >at all on sales. > >Actually, I agree with that. Most of the consumer audience for music (or >movies, or even books) do not want quality material (even if they say they >do). Just look at the best-seller charts. > > >For the past 3 months I have been approaching record companies re the new > >Mother of All Bands album by Ron Tree and myself. Half didn't even want > >to hear it. 90% of the rest gave no reply. In my own opinion, and in > >Ron's, this album is the best either of us have ever made, including all > >the Hawkwind and Inner City Unit albums we have been part of. If nothing > >comes of this venture I will give up playing music and start a new career > >as a rec. co. executive serial killer! > >Trust me, you don't want to get involved with those record companies. > > >I know a band who are about to sign with a Los Angeles-based major label >(whose name rhymes with "winter dope"), and the contract they're being >offered is NOTHING more than a money-laundering scam by the label. >Basically, they're being force-fed a deal where they HAVE to take a large >advance (which means that they won't make any money afterwards unless >their album goes gold), AND they have to SPEND the large advance at the >label's chosen studio, with the label's chosen producer (). It's as if >you went to the bank for a loan to buy an automobile, and the bank will >only give you the loan if you buy from their "preferred" dealer, who >happens to charge $2000 more for the same car than every other auto dealer >in town. If their album *doesn't* go gold, they'll be rapidly dropped by >the label, still owing the label all of their advance (which they never >even got to see because it went straight to the label's chosen producer & >studio), which means that they will no longer be able to perform or record >under their own name without getting sued by said label. > >(Oh, and in case you're wondering WHY a major label might be interested in >this band [besides the fact that they *are* very good at what they do, and >*are* great at motivating audiences]: their just-turned-21 female >singer/bassist/violinist usually performs wearing not a whole lot more >than Stacia did with Hawkwind. I love Trev's & Ron's music, but guys - >PLEASE don't try this!!!) > > > -Doug > jasret at mindspring.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:49:12 +0100 >From: trev >Subject: Re: OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > >No we won't try that Doug. I've heard of that kind of thing happening >before, especially the "here's the advance but you have to spend it in our >studios" - ha ha. Thats not really an advance is it - it's a con. We're >looking for a deal that makes sense for both parties, whatever the size of >the company. There is not even a whiff of interest anywhere at all. No, I >still think the serial killing is the best idea. I'll be posting a list >soon >with names and addresses. >he he > >trev > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Doug Pearson" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 8:51 PM >Subject: Re: OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > > > > On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:54:37 +0100, trev wrote: > > > > >Yes, this only goes to confirm my belief that the drop in record sales >has > > >resulted from the music industry's gross ignorance as to the nature of > > >their product. These get-rich-quick elitist, shop-keeper-mentality > > >morons do not believe that the quality of music product has any bearing > > >at all on sales. > > > > Actually, I agree with that. Most of the consumer audience for music >(or > > movies, or even books) do not want quality material (even if they say >they > > do). Just look at the best-seller charts. > > > > >For the past 3 months I have been approaching record companies re the >new > > >Mother of All Bands album by Ron Tree and myself. Half didn't even >want > > >to hear it. 90% of the rest gave no reply. In my own opinion, and in > > >Ron's, this album is the best either of us have ever made, including >all > > >the Hawkwind and Inner City Unit albums we have been part of. If >nothing > > >comes of this venture I will give up playing music and start a new >career > > >as a rec. co. executive serial killer! > > > > Trust me, you don't want to get involved with those record companies. > > > > > > I know a band who are about to sign with a Los Angeles-based major label > > (whose name rhymes with "winter dope"), and the contract they're being > > offered is NOTHING more than a money-laundering scam by the label. > > Basically, they're being force-fed a deal where they HAVE to take a >large > > advance (which means that they won't make any money afterwards unless > > their album goes gold), AND they have to SPEND the large advance at the > > label's chosen studio, with the label's chosen producer (). It's as if > > you went to the bank for a loan to buy an automobile, and the bank will > > only give you the loan if you buy from their "preferred" dealer, who > > happens to charge $2000 more for the same car than every other auto >dealer > > in town. If their album *doesn't* go gold, they'll be rapidly dropped >by > > the label, still owing the label all of their advance (which they never > > even got to see because it went straight to the label's chosen producer >& > > studio), which means that they will no longer be able to perform or >record > > under their own name without getting sued by said label. > > > > (Oh, and in case you're wondering WHY a major label might be interested >in > > this band [besides the fact that they *are* very good at what they do, >and > > *are* great at motivating audiences]: their just-turned-21 female > > singer/bassist/violinist usually performs wearing not a whole lot more > > than Stacia did with Hawkwind. I love Trev's & Ron's music, but guys - > > PLEASE don't try this!!!) > > > > > > -Doug > > jasret at mindspring.com > > > >------------------------------ > >End of BOC-L Digest - 16 Apr 2004 to 17 Apr 2004 (#2004-96) >*********************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Apr 17 17:56:55 2004 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:56:55 +0100 Subject: Download Research Shows Sales Unaffected Message-ID: Good point Tom - brief, to the point, and well argued. Websites *can* make bands money, but only if the band concerned can be ar5ed to market themselves. For a local pub band, nothing's changed, but for a little local band with their own material, own ideas etc etc, it's an ideal medium if a record label won't take them. There *are* small bands making money from it - and also big(gish) bands (see Marillion). An ex-guitarist of mine now works for Earache Records (home of (originally) Napalm Death, Carcass etc), and they put out what frankly I would describe as "unlistenable sh1te" - bands like The Beheaded, The Berzerker, Forest Stream etc - but: a) The label has been going for almost 20 years and can still afford to pay its employees b) Some of the bands they've signed have gone on to actually make money without compromising their art (or arse - you decide) However, Earache can't sign every good band they hear - I've been to the offices and I've seen the (literal) pile of demo tapes and CDs they get sent. If your band's good enough, and you gig hard enough and market yourself hard enough, these days you've got a chance of selling a few records through the wonder that is the internet. If, on the other hand, you're just a good band, but can't be ar5ed to bother with your website, reply to requests for information etc, then you'll die a (Lawnmower) Deth. Look at The Darkness. They had a fantastic website, selling CDs, T-shirts etc long before anyone outside of Lowestoft had heard of them. They're the perfect example of a band that worked its ar5e off, gigging, marketing, selling etc to make it. Compare their website to the piece of cock that is hawkwind.com (sorry Rik, but you know my thoughts on that) and you'll see why "I Believe In A Thing Called Love" caught the attention of a record company. When was the last time Hawkwind released a "single" and promoted it like that? Who out there's going to be the first to try and register "ssshhhhhooooweeeeooooweeeooeeooooeeeeeeeewangablangablangablanga.co.uk"? Just a thought... :-) Cheers, Rich. ps. The Darkness. They Rock. When was the last time you heard a fifteen year old girl tell you that about Hawkwind? pps. Not that I'm a fifteen year old girl you understand... > Personally I think the internet has done wonders for music. Just take a > browse through some of the artists at www.soundclick.com (present company > excepted, ahem) > > I don't think there's going to be a lot of money in unpackaged music though > (ie anything that's not Kylie or Robbie) - there are a lot of people > producing it cheaply and distributing it for very little. It's a bit like > the invention of printing - unless there's a high volume distribution the > production of individual items becomes uneconomic, and unattractive for > companies with high fixed costs. Maybe that's one of the reasons why so many > monsteries went bust in the 16th Century! > > I think good music is fast becoming a cottage industry (and I don't mean > that in the George Michael sense!) > > Regards > > Tom > > >From: Automatic digest processor > >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > >To: Recipients of BOC-L digests > >Subject: BOC-L Digest - 16 Apr 2004 to 17 Apr 2004 (#2004-96) > >Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 05:00:01 -0400 > > > >There are 4 messages totalling 190 lines in this issue. > > > >Topics of the day: > > > > 1. Dowload research shows record sales unaffected (2) > > 2. OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected (2) > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:34:50 +0100 > >From: M Holmes > >Subject: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > > > >http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html?tag=nefd_top > > > >------------------------------ > > > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:54:37 +0100 > >From: trev > >Subject: Re: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > > > >Yes, this only goes to confirm my belief that the drop in record sales has > >resulted from the music industry's gross ignorance as to the nature of > >their > >product. These get-rich-quick elitist, shop-keeper-mentality morons do not > >believe that the quality of music product has any bearing at all on sales. > >I spoke with a very prominent entrepreneur recently who said as much, > >forcing me to punch his face in (not really but i wanted to). Just imagine > >if Hendrix couldn't play guitar. Would he have become the legend he is? > >According to the current music biz mentality, the answer would be "Yes". > >Music is an art form which can give deep and lasting benefits to the > >listener resulting in that listener wanting more. Music based solely on > >fashion is transient. > >For the past 3 months I have been approaching record companies re the new > >Mother of All Bands album by Ron Tree and myself. Half didn't even want to > >hear it. 90% of the rest gave no reply. In my own opinion, and in Ron's, > >this album is the best either of us have ever made, including all the > >Hawkwind and Inner City Unit albums we have been part of. If nothing comes > >of this venture I will give up playing music and start a new career as a > >rec. co. executive serial killer! > >Better still, I could compile a "Death List" and publish it on the web, so > >if you happen to live near any of those named, you could pop in to their > >office and kill 'em. > >All those willing to take part in this liberating venture contact me at: > >RFM - Real Festival Music http://www.realfestivalmusic.co.uk > >Festival Cd's, Reviews, Vids, Downloads, Forum, Healers, News > > > >Judge Trev > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "M Holmes" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 2:34 PM > >Subject: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > > > > > > > http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html?tag=nefd_top > > > > > > >------------------------------ > > > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:51:25 -0400 > >From: Doug Pearson > >Subject: Re: OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > > > >On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:54:37 +0100, trev wrote: > > > > >Yes, this only goes to confirm my belief that the drop in record sales > >has > > >resulted from the music industry's gross ignorance as to the nature of > > >their product. These get-rich-quick elitist, shop-keeper-mentality > > >morons do not believe that the quality of music product has any bearing > > >at all on sales. > > > >Actually, I agree with that. Most of the consumer audience for music (or > >movies, or even books) do not want quality material (even if they say they > >do). Just look at the best-seller charts. > > > > >For the past 3 months I have been approaching record companies re the new > > >Mother of All Bands album by Ron Tree and myself. Half didn't even want > > >to hear it. 90% of the rest gave no reply. In my own opinion, and in > > >Ron's, this album is the best either of us have ever made, including all > > >the Hawkwind and Inner City Unit albums we have been part of. If nothing > > >comes of this venture I will give up playing music and start a new career > > >as a rec. co. executive serial killer! > > > >Trust me, you don't want to get involved with those record companies. > > > > > >I know a band who are about to sign with a Los Angeles-based major label > >(whose name rhymes with "winter dope"), and the contract they're being > >offered is NOTHING more than a money-laundering scam by the label. > >Basically, they're being force-fed a deal where they HAVE to take a large > >advance (which means that they won't make any money afterwards unless > >their album goes gold), AND they have to SPEND the large advance at the > >label's chosen studio, with the label's chosen producer (). It's as if > >you went to the bank for a loan to buy an automobile, and the bank will > >only give you the loan if you buy from their "preferred" dealer, who > >happens to charge $2000 more for the same car than every other auto dealer > >in town. If their album *doesn't* go gold, they'll be rapidly dropped by > >the label, still owing the label all of their advance (which they never > >even got to see because it went straight to the label's chosen producer & > >studio), which means that they will no longer be able to perform or record > >under their own name without getting sued by said label. > > > >(Oh, and in case you're wondering WHY a major label might be interested in > >this band [besides the fact that they *are* very good at what they do, and > >*are* great at motivating audiences]: their just-turned-21 female > >singer/bassist/violinist usually performs wearing not a whole lot more > >than Stacia did with Hawkwind. I love Trev's & Ron's music, but guys - > >PLEASE don't try this!!!) > > > > > > -Doug > > jasret at mindspring.com > > > >------------------------------ > > > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:49:12 +0100 > >From: trev > >Subject: Re: OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > > > >No we won't try that Doug. I've heard of that kind of thing happening > >before, especially the "here's the advance but you have to spend it in our > >studios" - ha ha. Thats not really an advance is it - it's a con. We're > >looking for a deal that makes sense for both parties, whatever the size of > >the company. There is not even a whiff of interest anywhere at all. No, I > >still think the serial killing is the best idea. I'll be posting a list > >soon > >with names and addresses. > >he he > > > >trev > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Doug Pearson" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 8:51 PM > >Subject: Re: OFF: Dowload research shows record sales unaffected > > > > > > > On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:54:37 +0100, trev wrote: > > > > > > >Yes, this only goes to confirm my belief that the drop in record sales > >has > > > >resulted from the music industry's gross ignorance as to the nature of > > > >their product. These get-rich-quick elitist, shop-keeper-mentality > > > >morons do not believe that the quality of music product has any bearing > > > >at all on sales. > > > > > > Actually, I agree with that. Most of the consumer audience for music > >(or > > > movies, or even books) do not want quality material (even if they say > >they > > > do). Just look at the best-seller charts. > > > > > > >For the past 3 months I have been approaching record companies re the > >new > > > >Mother of All Bands album by Ron Tree and myself. Half didn't even > >want > > > >to hear it. 90% of the rest gave no reply. In my own opinion, and in > > > >Ron's, this album is the best either of us have ever made, including > >all > > > >the Hawkwind and Inner City Unit albums we have been part of. If > >nothing > > > >comes of this venture I will give up playing music and start a new > >career > > > >as a rec. co. executive serial killer! > > > > > > Trust me, you don't want to get involved with those record companies. > > > > > > > > > I know a band who are about to sign with a Los Angeles-based major label > > > (whose name rhymes with "winter dope"), and the contract they're being > > > offered is NOTHING more than a money-laundering scam by the label. > > > Basically, they're being force-fed a deal where they HAVE to take a > >large > > > advance (which means that they won't make any money afterwards unless > > > their album goes gold), AND they have to SPEND the large advance at the > > > label's chosen studio, with the label's chosen producer (). It's as if > > > you went to the bank for a loan to buy an automobile, and the bank will > > > only give you the loan if you buy from their "preferred" dealer, who > > > happens to charge $2000 more for the same car than every other auto > >dealer > > > in town. If their album *doesn't* go gold, they'll be rapidly dropped > >by > > > the label, still owing the label all of their advance (which they never > > > even got to see because it went straight to the label's chosen producer > >& > > > studio), which means that they will no longer be able to perform or > >record > > > under their own name without getting sued by said label. > > > > > > (Oh, and in case you're wondering WHY a major label might be interested > >in > > > this band [besides the fact that they *are* very good at what they do, > >and > > > *are* great at motivating audiences]: their just-turned-21 female > > > singer/bassist/violinist usually performs wearing not a whole lot more > > > than Stacia did with Hawkwind. I love Trev's & Ron's music, but guys - > > > PLEASE don't try this!!!) > > > > > > > > > -Doug > > > jasret at mindspring.com > > > > > > >------------------------------ > > > >End of BOC-L Digest - 16 Apr 2004 to 17 Apr 2004 (#2004-96) > >*********************************************************** > > _________________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Apr 17 20:43:02 2004 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:43:02 +0100 Subject: Pyramids of SNAFU guestwall Message-ID: Well, sadly I no longer have the pleasure of working with Colin, but the Pyramids Guestwall is now accepting comments, not just names, so do feel free (all those of you who've bought a copy) to give your comments on their ACE Conspiracy-rock* opus. And those of you who haven't - WHY NOT? But sign the guestwall anyway. :-) Cheers, Rich. *Conspiracy-rock - (c) R.Lockwood. Shhooowweeoowweeeeooo type rock music in a space rock stylee as popularised by bands such as "Hawkwind", "New Age", "Bedouin" et al, but with a conspiracy theme. Played by bands such as "The Pyramids of SNAFU". Err, and no-one else. Just don't mention the "magic bullet" theory, OK? :-) pps. And whoever it was thought it amusing to slag them off via the guestwall- now's your chance to identify yourself. (Although they've got a pretty good idea...) From youless at COX.NET Sat Apr 17 22:54:17 2004 From: youless at COX.NET (Steve Youles) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:54:17 -0400 Subject: Pyramids of SNAFU guestwall Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:43:02 +0100, Richard Lockwood wrote: >Well, sadly I no longer have the pleasure of working with Colin, but the >Pyramids Guestwall is now accepting comments, not just names, so do feel >free (all those of you who've bought a copy) to give your comments on their >ACE Conspiracy-rock* opus. And those of you who haven't - WHY NOT? But >sign the guestwall anyway. at http://www.hyperactive-stage.co.uk/pyramids/guestbook.asp !! Cheers Steve From jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM Sun Apr 18 12:09:06 2004 From: jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM (Jerry Kranitz) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:09:06 -0400 Subject: OFF: Aural Innovations Radio: New Kozmik Ken Experience and Drool Trough shows Message-ID: http://Aural-Innovations.com Announcements (April 18, 2004): We've just uploaded new shows from The Kozmik Ken Experience (April 2004) and Drool Trough (show #8). Our shows broadcast in RealAudio and can be streamed or downloaded. You can go directly to the Radio Shows page at http://aural-innovations.com/radio/radio.html. See the playlist below. The Kozmik Ken Experience (April 2004) Motorpsycho - "For Free" (from Phanerothyme) Alpha Omega - "Reefer Madness" (from Daze Of The Underground: A Tribute To Hawkwind) Orange Seaweed - "Pictures In The Sky" (from Hot Smoke And Sassafras) Group 1850 - "We Love Life (Like We Love You)" (from 1967-1968) Jungle - "Slave Ship" (from Love, Peace and Poetry) 19:50-25:10 Alchemysts and Simeon - "Psychotropic Over Modulation" (from Simeon and the Alchemysts) Dose Hermanos - "Black Lightning" (from Dose Hermanos Live) Sacktrick - "Penguins On The Moon" (from Penguins On The Moon) Acid Mother's Temple - "Planet Pussy Virgo" (from St. Captain Freakout and the Magic Bamboo Request) Autosalvage - "Autosalvage" (from Autosalvage) Acid Mother's Temple - "You Know You're Only Dreaming" (from Daze Of The Underground: A Tribute To Hawkwind) Nifty Eagu and the Glo-Pilots - "Eternity, Indecision and Death" (from First Last) Drool Trough (show #8) Drool Trough is an all genres show featuring cool music from the underground. We created Drool Trough for two reasons. First, we receive far more submissions at Aural Innovations than we can reasonably have time to review. And, second, we get a lot of cool music that doesn't fit neatly into our more theme oriented radio shows. Anything is game for Drool Trough, and from one track to the next you will hear completely different sounds and styles, all from homemade musicians and teeny weeny but ultra fiesty labels. Arthur Loves Plastic - "Don't Push" (from Savage Bliss) The Bitter Little Cider Apples - "Butter Face Down" (from Further Adventures of The Telepathic Explorers) The Flexible Flyers - "Full Of Light" (from Church Of Dreams) Greg Segal - "Robopath's Night Out" (from Standard) Grayson Wray - "Pure Delight" (from Picasso's Dream) Simply Saucer - "Instant Pleasure" (from Cyborgs Revisited) The Unintended - "The Light" (from The Unintended) Flesh Resonance - "Illuminance" (from The Feast Of Shadows) The Honey Palace - "Me-Oh-My" (from Have You Seen Love?) Cucumber Farmer - "Tivoli" (from Beyond) Astro Can Caravan - "Meteor Shower Gel" (from preview CDEP) Charles Rice Goff III & Don Campau - "Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying" (from Re-Upholstered Vinyl) Eric Matchett & Charles Rice Goff III - "Bland And Stewed" (from Coo Sticky) Transient - "One Riff Jam" (from Transient) Bruce Atchison - "Do Something!" (from Darkness Path) Elegant Doormats - "Sidewalks Blister" (from Yesterday Box) The Rick Ray Band - "The Casualty Score" (from Night Of The Living Dedicated) A.G. Carinae - "Blue Universe" (from Music To Listen To In The Dark) Wobble Jaggle Jiggle - "We Are The Human Beings" (from It Came From Nowhere) Babylonian Tiles - "Electrified Eyes" (from Teknicolour Aftermath) http://Aural-Innovations.com From cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET Sun Apr 18 13:43:57 2004 From: cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET (Rich) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:43:57 -0500 Subject: Tour In-Reply-To: <0b6501c424c6$e61fba20$0100a8c0@NoddyHolder> Message-ID: Hope everyone has a great tour, this will be the first one we've missed for a while! We'll be moving house while the tours on :-( Have a great time all. Rich + Arin From jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sun Apr 18 16:18:28 2004 From: jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Jill Strobridge) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:18:28 +0100 Subject: OFF TOPIC Monastic literature was Re: Download Research Shows Sales Unaffected Message-ID: > (ie anything that's not Kylie or Robbie) - there are a lot of people > producing it cheaply and distributing it for very little. It's a bit like > the invention of printing - unless there's a high volume distribution the > production of individual items becomes uneconomic, and unattractive for > companies with high fixed costs. Maybe that's one of the reasons why so > many monsteries went bust in the 16th Century! It certainly made them less relevant since they could no longer claim to be the sole keepers of an intellectual knowledge that was now available to all. However since most people were illiterate monasteries simply took over the role of educators and started teaching people how to read the books that were suddenly being produced in large quantities. More interesting, perhaps is the kind of books that were suddenly being written in English, not just Latin - treaties on farming, gardening, good behaviour, bawdy tales, Mystery Plays, moral allegories, historic legends, tales of heroes and lovers and access to Latin and Greek philosphers that had never been available before. A vast and diverse literature was suddenly available - far different from the prayer books and few bibles which, though beautifully decorated, were somewhat restrictive in outlook! Actually the monasteries made their enormous wealth from (1) wool and (2) donations of land for chantries (which in effect meant it was theirs for ever) which they either used to graze even more sheep or gave to others and just collected the rents. Gradually wool became uneconomic (increasing tax burden - illness among sheep - high shipping costs to Europe - and ultimately war with Europe) and the King decided he could make much better use of the monasteries lands than they could, so around 1530 he confiscated the lot and then demolished the buildings to make sure they couldn't be reused. Such is history jill ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jill Strobridge ----------------------------------------------------------------- From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Sun Apr 18 19:38:45 2004 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:38:45 +0100 Subject: HW: Norwich tonight Message-ID: Just got back from the Norwich gig, few quick observations & I'll write more tomorrow... Crap venue, good sound. Low ceiling made life difficult for Neil & John on lights and the low stage made it hard to see the band. Huw was on top form supporting acoustically. HW were Dave, Alan & Richard firing on all cylinders, sadly no Huw with HW tonight. A few golden oldies unheard for a while alongside the usual favourites and one unheard new one (wouldn't like to hazard a guess at the title). Could've done with a couple more numbers, maybe, but the band were tight as the proverbial and rocked pretty much all the way. More tomorrow, Nick From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Apr 18 21:13:53 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:13:53 -0400 Subject: HW: Arthur Brown Message-ID: http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/reviews/story/0,11712,1193089,00.html Does this mean he won't be appearing with HW on this tour? Nick From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Mon Apr 19 14:10:08 2004 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:10:08 +0100 Subject: HW: More on Norwich Last Night Message-ID: Pretty much a packed venue last night but not a good one. Ceiling too low for the projections to show, with no space for a screen to be mounted and the stage too low for short-arses like myself to see too much. Huw was looking very healthy and on great form for his acoustic set. He opened with Pure Country(think that's the title, heard him play it many times), then Solitary Mind Games, Rocky Paths and Hurry On Sundown (god to hear, but it did seem to signal the HW wouldn't be playing it). Hopefully we'll see him put an appearance in with the Hawks before the tour's out. A pretty quick turnaround saw HW take the stage. Stripped down to a three-piece tonight with Dave playing his Les Paul for those that are interested in such things. Alan is again doubling up keyboards and had a pc hooked up in his equipment. Angela Android was the opener with strong vocals from Rich and the addition of a live drumming end section rounded it off nicely. The Assault & Battery/Golden Void/Where Are They Now sequence followed next which was just strong as ever. Alan's Out Here We Are instrumental came next and worked much better than at the Astoria where it didn't flow too well and many thought it was two pieces, a nice mellow number before the band launched into a storming version of Sword Of The East. With Bedouin seemingly defunct (please prove me wrong here, Alan!) I'd wondered whether this may make an appearance in the HW set and a good heavy version it was too. A very version of the Right Stuff came next followed by the big surprise of the evening, Psychedelic Warlords. Very strong version, first time its been played since Hawkestra. Wings next followed I think by Spirit Of The Age which featured a lot of very nice lead guitar from Dave. A new techno piece (I guess from the album but wouldn't like to guess which from the titles available) lead us into Assassins of Allah followed by Ejection to close the main set. The band returned to play a cracking version of Brainstorm (again, not heard since the Hawkestra and for me well due a revival). Excellent sound quality, the band were firing on all cylinders. Whether it was the change of guitar or not I don't know but Dave's rhythm playing seemed particularly heavy. Could've done with a few more numbers though and tight as the three piece sounded one or two songs (Sword of the East for one) were crying out for some lead. As HW tours usually improve as they go Salisbury should be a good one, hopefully a bigger stage for the projections (Neil told me that was off picking up more equipment for the show today), maybe a couple more songs and perhaps a guest spot or two at least for Huwey? From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Mon Apr 19 14:36:09 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:36:09 -0400 Subject: OFF TOPIC Monastic literature was Re: Download Research Shows Sales Unaffected Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:18:28 +0100, Jill Strobridge wrote: >Actually the monasteries made their enormous wealth from (1) wool and >(2) donations of land for chantries (which in effect meant it was theirs >for ever) which they either used to graze even more sheep or gave to >others and just collected the rents. Don't forget (3) BEER from those wonderful Belgian Trappists! (Although I think that Jill might be referring solely to English monastaries here, in which case I don't think beer would be applicable.) -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Mon Apr 19 14:40:30 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:40:30 -0400 Subject: HW: Arthur Brown Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:13:53 -0400, Nick Medford wrote: >http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/reviews/story/0,11712,1193089,00.html > >Does this mean he won't be appearing with HW on this tour? > >Nick I was under the impression that Arthur is no longer working with Hawkwind, although neither his nor HW's website states so explicitly. -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From erics at TELEPRES.COM Mon Apr 19 14:48:28 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:48:28 -0400 Subject: OFF TOPIC Monastic literature was Re: Download Research Shows Sales Unaffected In-Reply-To: <000d01c42582$5080a1c0$2cea193e@jds>; from jill@THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK on Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 09:18:28PM +0100 Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 09:18:28PM +0100, Jill Strobridge wrote: > the King decided he could > make much better use of the monasteries lands than they could Not to mention his minor squabble with the guy the monks all indirectly reported to... -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Apr 19 15:54:18 2004 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:54:18 +0100 Subject: More on Norwich Last Night Message-ID: Thanks for the review Nick:) Just a few comments: Huw's first song was "Wars are the Hobby There" Dave will probably not be playing the Les Paul on the rest of the tour; hopefully back to the usual guitar tomorrow. The new song was Trip. Memories of the day: 1. Trying to find the venue by car with a passenger who knew exactly where it was. NOT! 2. Driving from the venue with recording gear, Dave's guitar, Dave's bag, other assorted gear, Dave, Kris, Alan and Katie squeezed into the car. Katie insisted on licking my hand every time I changed gear!!!!!! Cheers, Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Lee" To: Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:10 PM Subject: HW: More on Norwich Last Night > Pretty much a packed venue last night but not a good one. Ceiling too > low for the projections to show, with no space for a screen to be > mounted and the stage too low for short-arses like myself to see too > much. > > Huw was looking very healthy and on great form for his acoustic set. He > opened with Pure Country(think that's the title, heard him play it many > times), then Solitary Mind Games, Rocky Paths and Hurry On Sundown (god > to hear, but it did seem to signal the HW wouldn't be playing it). > Hopefully we'll see him put an appearance in with the Hawks before the > tour's out. > > A pretty quick turnaround saw HW take the stage. Stripped down to a > three-piece tonight with Dave playing his Les Paul for those that are > interested in such things. Alan is again doubling up keyboards and had > a pc hooked up in his equipment. Angela Android was the opener with > strong vocals from Rich and the addition of a live drumming end section > rounded it off nicely. The Assault & Battery/Golden Void/Where Are They > Now sequence followed next which was just strong as ever. Alan's Out > Here We Are instrumental came next and worked much better than at the > Astoria where it didn't flow too well and many thought it was two > pieces, a nice mellow number before the band launched into a storming > version of Sword Of The East. With Bedouin seemingly defunct (please > prove me wrong here, Alan!) I'd wondered whether this may make an > appearance in the HW set and a good heavy version it was too. A very > version of the Right Stuff came next followed by the big surprise of the > evening, Psychedelic Warlords. Very strong version, first time its been > played since Hawkestra. Wings next followed I think by Spirit Of The > Age which featured a lot of very nice lead guitar from Dave. A new > techno piece (I guess from the album but wouldn't like to guess which > from the titles available) lead us into Assassins of Allah followed by > Ejection to close the main set. > The band returned to play a cracking version of Brainstorm (again, not > heard since the Hawkestra and for me well due a revival). > > Excellent sound quality, the band were firing on all cylinders. Whether > it was the change of guitar or not I don't know but Dave's rhythm > playing seemed particularly heavy. Could've done with a few more > numbers though and tight as the three piece sounded one or two songs > (Sword of the East for one) were crying out for some lead. > As HW tours usually improve as they go Salisbury should be a good one, > hopefully a bigger stage for the projections (Neil told me that was off > picking up more equipment for the show today), maybe a couple more songs > and perhaps a guest spot or two at least for Huwey? From erics at TELEPRES.COM Mon Apr 19 16:02:46 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:02:46 -0400 Subject: More on Norwich Last Night In-Reply-To: <004801c42648$19c72980$6cd1fea9@oemcomputer>; from colin@CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK on Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 08:54:18PM +0100 Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 08:54:18PM +0100, Colin J Allen wrote: > Katie insisted on licking my hand every time I changed gear!!!!!! I do hope that Katie isn't human :-) -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Apr 19 16:07:40 2004 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:07:40 +0100 Subject: More on Norwich Last Night Message-ID: I think that she thinks that she is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Siegerman" To: Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: Re: More on Norwich Last Night > On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 08:54:18PM +0100, Colin J Allen wrote: > > Katie insisted on licking my hand every time I changed gear!!!!!! > > I do hope that Katie isn't human :-) > > -- > > | | /\ > |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com > | | / > It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer > wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the > drum kit around during songs. > - Patrick Lenneau From michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU Mon Apr 19 19:51:46 2004 From: michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU (MiChAeL "aLiEn DrEaM" bLaCkMaN) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:21:46 +0930 Subject: More on Norwich Last Night Message-ID: I'd rather the human tounge for two reasons 1) dogs and cats lick their backsides with their tounges 2) If a chick (sorry - fair maiden) is licking your hand every time you change gears..... say no more..... wink, wink. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Siegerman" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:02 PM > Subject: Re: More on Norwich Last Night > > > > On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 08:54:18PM +0100, Colin J Allen wrote: > > > Katie insisted on licking my hand every time I changed gear!!!!!! > > > > I do hope that Katie isn't human :-) > > > > -- > > > > | | /\ > > |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com > > | | / > > It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer > > wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the > > drum kit around during songs. > > - Patrick Lenneau > From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Mon Apr 19 21:25:47 2004 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:25:47 EDT Subject: OFF: M'head/mp3s 2 'Overkill' trax at original unaltered speed Message-ID: anyone interested? bobm From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 20 10:06:38 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:06:38 +0100 Subject: OFF TOPIC Monastic literature was Re: Download Research Shows Sales Unaffected In-Reply-To: Jill Strobridge's message of Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:18:28 +0100 Message-ID: Jill Strobridge writes: > Actually the monasteries made their enormous wealth from (1) wool and > (2) donations of land for chantries (which in effect meant it was theirs > for ever) which they either used to graze even more sheep or gave to > others and just collected the rents. Gradually wool became uneconomic > (increasing tax burden - illness among sheep - high shipping costs to > Europe - and ultimately war with Europe) and the King decided he could > make much better use of the monasteries lands than they could, so around > 1530 he confiscated the lot and then demolished the buildings to make > sure they couldn't be reused. Of course a break with the Pope over the issue of a divorce and the perennialy empty treasury, due to a habit of our Kings conducting expensive wars, may have had something to do with it. FoFP From gg at SIO4.COM Tue Apr 20 07:06:56 2004 From: gg at SIO4.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:06:56 +0200 Subject: OFF: M'head/mp3s 2 'Overkill' trax at original unaltered speed In-Reply-To: <12d.3f4954fb.2db5d61b@aol.com> Message-ID: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM wrote: > anyone interested? where did you find it? is it slower or faster than the original? From zim594j at TNINET.SE Tue Apr 20 11:41:26 2004 From: zim594j at TNINET.SE (Kenneth Magnusson) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:41:26 +0200 Subject: OFF TOPIC Testing... In-Reply-To: <200404201406.i3KE6c53017653@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: 1 2 1 2 From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Tue Apr 20 11:57:12 2004 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:57:12 EDT Subject: OFF: M'head/mp3 trx/unaltered speed DETAILS Message-ID: In a message dated 4/20/2004 11:45:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, gg at SIO4.COM writes: > where did you find it? > is it slower or faster than the original? > Overkill, and it's follow-up, Bomber, are arguably the most 'produced' records in Motorhead's entire catalog. No surprise, then, to learn that Jimmy Miller, famed producer of Traffic, Blind Faith, and all the of classic recorded output emanating from the Rolling Stones between 1968 and 1973, was the producer on both records for Motorhead in 1979. In stark contrast to Motorhead's 1st two lps, which had both been low budget affairs --the 2nd , self-titled album was recorded basically live and in one day-Overkill and Bomber were more elaborate, 'proper' productions. Miller utilized any number of different methods to flesh out what was essentially a 3-piece band, edging them sonically away from the hippie biker-punk of their origins and closer to 70's heavy metal, while miraculously retaining the classic power trio feel. Particularly on Overkill: Layer upon layer of effects-laden guitars; varying degrees of reverb on certain drum tracks; a different bass sound on almost every song? Miller even altered the tape speed for two tracks: Capricorn, the heaviest Motorhead-trip thus far and a nod to Lemmy's psychedelic roots in Hawkwind the Sam Gopal Dream; and Too Late, Too Late, the brutally heavy b-side to the Overkill single. Capricorn was mixed at a slightly higher speed than normal, resulting in a barely-discernable shift down in tempo and a half-step down in pitch when the track is played at 'normal' speed. This effect, along with drenching the drums in reverb and mixing them quite low in the mix, gives the track a laid back, spaced-out and somewhat ethereal feel. On Too Late, Too Late, however, the tape speed was increased considerably; the version we've all become familiar with over the years plays back in the key of G, although it was played and recorded in the key of A. The super-heavy grunge guitar sounds, as well as Lemmy's uncharacteristically deep and overly-slurred vocals were also a result of this manipulation. All known live recordings of these songs were played in the keys of E and A, respectively (and a good bit faster, too?). Guitar songbooks that cover the studio albums place the songs in those keys as well; while ultimately the Miller-produced recordings are the sole versions heard in E flat and G. One can imagine a frustrated Miller trying to slow the band down ("I'll get those bastards to slow down,? one way or another?"), feeling they were performing the two songs in question a bit too fast; or perhaps looking for a little variation in the dynamic of the album after hearing the balance of the tracks speeding along; perhaps simply out of a desire to experiment with methods and sonics. Vinyl versions of both tunes and a variable-speed turntable are all it takes to revert these tracks to their original pitches and tempos. One must simply increase the speed of the turntable on Capricorn, a song written and played in the key of E, until that E matches the E in songs in the same key on the rest of the record. Use a guitar or keyboard to check the tracks against each other while adjusting the speed. The difference here is minor and may take a skilled ear to discern any real difference. Perfect pitch helps. Then Tune the guitar or keys to the A in I'll be your Sister, and increase the speed of the turntable until Too Late, Too Late is heard playing in the key of A, and one has restored the song to the speed it was originally played at during the recording of the track. Lemmy sounds much more like himself, and the tempo matches the tempo of all of the live versions heard since. Everything sounds 'right'. i'llcompile a list of emails of those interested and send the mp3s in a bit From thelastdruids at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Apr 20 12:31:10 2004 From: thelastdruids at HOTMAIL.COM (Tom Byrne) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:31:10 +0100 Subject: More on Norwich Last Night Message-ID: > >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:21:46 +0930 >From: "MiChAeL \"aLiEn DrEaM\" bLaCkMaN" >Subject: Re: More on Norwich Last Night > >I'd rather the human tounge for two reasons > >1) dogs and cats lick their backsides with their tounges > >2) If a chick (sorry - fair maiden) is licking your hand every time you >change gears..... say no more..... wink, wink. > I'd certainly worry about any human that could lick their backside _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 20 14:24:31 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:24:31 +0100 Subject: Glasgow pub? Message-ID: Where is the Cathouse anyway? Where's a good food and real ale pub near it? Who's fo a meetup? FoFP From Alan_Taylor at MADASAFISH.COM Tue Apr 20 15:19:29 2004 From: Alan_Taylor at MADASAFISH.COM (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:19:29 +0100 Subject: Glasgow pub? Message-ID: The Cathouse is near Central Station on Union Street near where it joins Argyle Street. Some of us may be in the Horseshoe Bar in Drury Street which isn't far away. It's the next street up from Gordon Street, kind of diagonally across from Central Station. Dunno what it's like but it's old and it's CAMRA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:24 PM Subject: Glasgow pub? > Where is the Cathouse anyway? Where's a good food and real ale pub near > it? Who's fo a meetup? > > FoFP > From erics at TELEPRES.COM Tue Apr 20 19:28:28 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:28:28 -0400 Subject: OFF: Dumb language question In-Reply-To: <000b01c4270c$682ac220$47cf2f50@al74ybgib5c6h8>; from Alan_Taylor@MADASAFISH.COM on Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 08:19:29PM +0100 Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 08:19:29PM +0100, Alan Taylor wrote: > The Cathouse is near Central Station on Union Street [...] > Some of us may be in the Horseshoe Bar in Drury Street [...] OK, so what's the rule for "on" vs. "in" some street or other? I'd assumed it was always "in" in the UK. -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU Tue Apr 20 22:41:57 2004 From: michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU (MiChAeL "aLiEn DrEaM" bLaCkMaN) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:11:57 +0930 Subject: More on Norwich Last Night off Message-ID: I would run away ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Byrne" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:01 AM Subject: Re: More on Norwich Last Night > > > >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:21:46 +0930 > >From: "MiChAeL \"aLiEn DrEaM\" bLaCkMaN" > >Subject: Re: More on Norwich Last Night > > > >I'd rather the human tounge for two reasons > > > >1) dogs and cats lick their backsides with their tounges > > > >2) If a chick (sorry - fair maiden) is licking your hand every time you > >change gears..... say no more..... wink, wink. > > > > I'd certainly worry about any human that could lick their backside > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. > http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess > From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Apr 21 06:17:08 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:17:08 +0100 Subject: OFF: Dumb language question In-Reply-To: Eric Siegerman's message of Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:28:28 -0400 Message-ID: Eric Siegerman writes: > On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 08:19:29PM +0100, Alan Taylor wrote: > > The Cathouse is near Central Station on Union Street [...] > > Some of us may be in the Horseshoe Bar in Drury Street [...] > > OK, so what's the rule for "on" vs. "in" some street or other? > I'd assumed it was always "in" in the UK. On and in are equivalent in this context. FoFP From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Wed Apr 21 06:21:12 2004 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:21:12 +0100 Subject: HW: Salisbury Message-ID: The trouble with taking half a day off work to go to a gig, is that you never really get started at work in the morning, and you don't really switch off from work in the afternoon, so unfortunately I arrive chez-Alan Linsley in Bristol at 5pm with a nagging stress headache that doesn't go away. 6pm-ish and we hit the road for the drive down to Salisbury amidst the Bristol rush-hour traffic and quite foul driving conditions and so arrive at our destination a tad later than we anticipated - just time to grab a quick beer, meet up with Alan's mate Steve, Rob Dreamworker and Nick Lee. I grab a quick chat at the merchandise desk with Pete Pracownik (a true gentleman if ever there was one!) and have a natter with Nick on the many merits of Christopher Eccleston as the new Doctor Who. Huw's just started his acoustic set when we get into the hall. As other fans have noted, he still looks a little frail but does seem to have got healthier since the Astoria last year. His guitar playing was enjoyable (he stuck to the same three or four numbers that he usually plays in these acoustic sets)but he also tries to do the raconteur bit with a bit less success. But it's terrific to see him on-stage and there is a warm buzz in the audience for his appearances. At the end of Hawkwind's set he's found sitting by the merchandise desk - and, having spent a few hours talking on the phone to him for the HW biography a couple of months or so ago, want to go introduce myself and say hello - but I don't manage to pluck up enough courage! So, to Hawkwind who are again the Dave Brock Trio - after all this time playing together they have a claim on the title of "seminal line-up" in a way. "Angela Android" I find a strange choice of opener - though I like the song quite a lot (but prefer Sunray which oddly seems to have been dropped from the set at the moment) it doesn't really cut it as a kick-off number and I think goes better later in the set. Assault & Battery/Golden Void has sort of turned into a "cut to the chase and get to "Where Are They Now?" which despite being around the set for a year now is still a thrill to hear. "Sword of the East" was a great choice to bring back but, as noted by others, could do with a lead instrument and so it's a pity that for whatever reason Huw is not yet joining for an electric number or two - but a welcome revisit none-the-less. Working less well so far, but I think will be great by mid-tour, is the new version of Psychedelic Warlords - like others in the set it suffers a bit from the amount of sequencing needed to sustain the trio. I sort of feel, though the Brock/Davey/Chadwick line-up is probably my favourite HW era, they now need an extra head on stage - probably on keyboards - the US tour with the trio + Bainbridge I think points to this as the most effective combination, though of course a renewed interest from Simon House would be nice if it could happen again. Lightshow was marvellous - a great mixture of patterns, film, cartoon and imagery and the stage set-up allowed for a really good projection. At the end, I make a quick dash to the exit and hand-out (with Alan Linsley's kind help) a bunch of leaflets for the biography. The Hall staff are giving out ones for a Led Zep tribute band also - but, enouragingly, when we walk back to the car some of their's our found discarded - but none of ours :-) Overall, well I preferred the three gigs I saw last year but that might have been me on the night rather than the performance - and the trio are certainly cooking and as tight as you'd expect from the three longest serving members of Hawkwind playing together. Somebody noted the set-list from Norwich looking a tad short - the set was the same here but whereas on paper it looked truncated, in reality it was a very full set, though when Brock asks the audience at the start of the encore whether they want a "slow or fast" number the real answer, is, well, "Both Please"! I think the encore could do with a second number to round things out but other than that no complaints - if only the damn stress headache would go away! Very poor driving conditions down from Bristol to Cornwall this morning and it's still lingering! Ian From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Apr 21 12:14:53 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:14:53 +0100 Subject: Glasgow pub Message-ID: Looks like a few folks, incldng the Time Brothers will be a The Counting House near George Square on St.Vincent Street, us a couple of blocks from the gig. It's quite close to the Horseshoe too. FoFP From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Apr 21 13:30:57 2004 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Chris Allen) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:30:57 +0100 Subject: BOC in the UK Message-ID: Does anyone have contact details for the three venues BOC are playing in the UK in June - the Astoria in London, the Brook in Southampton or the Robin2 in Wolverhampton, so I can see about buying tickets & where the nearest airports are? When I finally got the photos developed that I took last year in Glasgow I found that the entire film was mush, no photos taken at all but all the film exposed, so I'll have to fly to England to see a show to take more photos. Or that's my excuse. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.664 / Virus Database: 427 - Release Date: 21/04/2004 From mrvarley at UCLAN.AC.UK Wed Apr 21 14:00:45 2004 From: mrvarley at UCLAN.AC.UK (Martin Roy Varley) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:00:45 +0100 Subject: BOC in the UK Message-ID: I have got tix for London and Wolverhampton. For London I used: www.ticketmaster.co.uk They are usually reliable and efficient but pile on the extra cost (a ticket with face value ?16 cost ?21.50!). The venue website (www.meanfiddler.com) doesn't list the show yet. For Wolverhampton I ordered direct from the venue - see: http://www.therobin.co.uk/ Their phone no. is (44) 1902 401211. I ordered by phone - friendly response and good service - I got the ticket the next day. I'm not going to Southampton but I expect you can get info from: http://www.the-brook.com/ Best Martin >>> beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM 04/21/04 06:30pm >>> Does anyone have contact details for the three venues BOC are playing in the UK in June - the Astoria in London, the Brook in Southampton or the Robin2 in Wolverhampton, so I can see about buying tickets & where the nearest airports are? When I finally got the photos developed that I took last year in Glasgow I found that the entire film was mush, no photos taken at all but all the film exposed, so I'll have to fly to England to see a show to take more photos. Or that's my excuse. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.664 / Virus Database: 427 - Release Date: 21/04/2004 From mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK Wed Apr 21 16:03:53 2004 From: mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK (mark von bargen) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:03:53 +0100 Subject: Dumb language question In-Reply-To: <20040420192828.B7274@telepres.com> Message-ID: Eric asked: OK, so what's the rule for "on" vs. "in" some street or other? I'd assumed it was always "in" in the UK. -- Generally in the UK it is 'on' that is used in such cases. You see, traditionally, a building stands ON a street. Conversely, a fool stands IN the sh*t, not on it - especially on a rainy day. Mark From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Wed Apr 21 16:33:08 2004 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:33:08 +0100 Subject: HW: Salisbury last night Message-ID: Excellent gig again at Salisbury last night. Ian's already written a much more eloquent review than I'll manage (he is nearly a pro now after all!) but I'll add a few words of my own. Same set exactly as Sunday but a much better gig. Not a lot to choose sonically, maybe, but the large stage with a good sized backdrop meant that we were treated to a full-on light-show. Lots of colour and b/w psychedelic images, video clips and images that fitted the music superbly, Marie tried to tell me afterwards that she missed a couple of cues for video clips but it certainly wasn't noticeable. The addition of the new colour strobeflowers added an extra dimension to the lights coming from the stage. Being able to see the band properly was also a great bonus over Sunday. The guys certainly seemed to be enjoying themselves up there and it was good to Dave out from behind those keyboards more now. Shame that Huw wasn't on such good form as Sunday for his support, the lack of audience during his set meant he didn't have a great deal to play off though. Good to meet up with Alan L, Rob, Ian et al again. See you all soon I hope. Looking forward to Manchester next! Nick From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Apr 21 18:29:39 2004 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Chris Allen) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:29:39 +0100 Subject: BOC in the UK Message-ID: Fantastic! Thank you very much! C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Roy Varley" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: Re: BOC in the UK > I have got tix for London and Wolverhampton. > > For London I used: > > www.ticketmaster.co.uk > > They are usually reliable and efficient but pile on the extra cost (a > ticket with face value ?16 cost ?21.50!). The venue website > (www.meanfiddler.com) doesn't list the show yet. > > > For Wolverhampton I ordered direct from the venue - see: > > http://www.therobin.co.uk/ > > Their phone no. is (44) 1902 401211. I ordered by phone - friendly > response and good service - I got the ticket the next day. > > > I'm not going to Southampton but I expect you can get info from: > > http://www.the-brook.com/ > > > Best > > Martin > > >>> beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM 04/21/04 06:30pm >>> > Does anyone have contact details for the three venues BOC are playing > in the UK in June - the Astoria in London, the Brook in Southampton or > the Robin2 in Wolverhampton, so I can see about buying tickets & where > the nearest airports are? > > When I finally got the photos developed that I took last year in > Glasgow I found that the entire film was mush, no photos taken at all > but all the film exposed, so I'll have to fly to England to see a show > to take more photos. > Or that's my excuse. > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.664 / Virus Database: 427 - Release Date: 21/04/2004 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.664 / Virus Database: 427 - Release Date: 21/04/2004 From jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK Wed Apr 21 18:40:12 2004 From: jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Jill Strobridge) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:40:12 +0100 Subject: Dumb language question Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Siegerman" > On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 08:19:29PM +0100, Alan Taylor wrote: > > The Cathouse is near Central Station on Union Street [...] > > Some of us may be in the Horseshoe Bar in Drury Street [...] > > OK, so what's the rule for "on" vs. "in" some street or other? > I'd assumed it was always "in" in the UK. > Interesting question - no pun intended! Myself, I'd say that a building situated 'on' a particular street is more literally and accurately correct since 'on' relates to both placement and a ground surface. So you can quite correctly say that a building is 'on' a specific street. 'In' relates more to a surrounded or enclosed situation - but I guess you could argue that a specific building is 'in' a street [of other buildings that surround and enclose it] This suggests that 'in' would be more generally used for narrow claustrophobic streets and 'on' for broad thoroughfares. I would certainly always say 'on' Princes Street (which only has buildings along one side!) However looking at the dictionary I see the words have slightly different roots so in the end (as always in the UK) it may depend on whether your spoken language was absorbed from an area with a Norse/Celtic background or a German/Dutch one. Yrs logorrhoeacally ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jill Strobridge ----------------------------------------------------------------- From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Wed Apr 21 23:24:39 2004 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:24:39 -0400 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger In-Reply-To: <20040407133806.A17963@telepres.com> Message-ID: I believe the Necronmicon was attributed to "the Mad Arab" as the author. My college all night prog radio show in LA in the early 80's was called Mad Arab's Midnight Caravan. Not very Politically Correct name these days but what the hell. More Serendipity. Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Eric Siegerman Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 1:38 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 02:21:21PM -0400, Nick Medford wrote: > The Necronomicon (book of dead names) is a fictitious "ancient manuscript" > dreamed up by HP Lovecraft Someone just mentioned this on another list: http://www.hello-cthulhu.com/?date=2003-11-30 Talk about timing! -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Apr 22 05:52:37 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:52:37 +0100 Subject: Glasgow pub? In-Reply-To: Alan Taylor's message of Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:19:29 +0100 Message-ID: Alan Taylor writes: > The Cathouse is near Central Station on Union Street near where it joins > Argyle Street. > > Some of us may be in the Horseshoe Bar in Drury Street which isn't far away. > It's the next street up from Gordon Street, kind of diagonally across from > Central Station. Dunno what it's like but it's old and it's CAMRA. Will Brighawk Danny be there? I'd planned to call him but have lost his phone number. If you have it, I'd appreciate email... FoFP From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 22 05:54:45 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:54:45 -0400 Subject: HW: Arthur Brown Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:40:30 -0400, Doug Pearson wrote: >I was under the impression that Arthur is no longer working with Hawkwind, Seems you are right. For some reason I had the idea that he might be appearing on at least some dates on the current mini-tour, though thinking about it now, I'm not sure where I got that idea. Nick From akomins at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Apr 22 10:42:11 2004 From: akomins at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Arin Komins) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:42:11 -0500 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Mike Montfort wrote: :Subject: Re: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger : :I believe the Necronmicon was attributed to "the Mad Arab" as the author. : Specifically, I believe it was the "Mad Arab Abdul Alhazred" wasn't it? cthulhuistically yours, Arin -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Arin Komins akomins at uchicago.edu Manager of Web Systems Architecture University of Chicago/ENSS/NSIT tel: (773)834-4087 1155 E. 60th St. #418 Chicago, IL 60637 fax: (773)702-0559 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Thu Apr 22 12:23:20 2004 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:23:20 +0100 Subject: HW: Arthur Brown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That Wolverhampton gig poster that was up on eBay stated that Arthur and Simon were guesting at that show (and also that Huw was in the band) FWIW. Nick > -----Original Message----- > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Nick Medford > Sent: 22 April 2004 10:55 > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: HW: Arthur Brown > > > On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:40:30 -0400, Doug Pearson > > wrote: > > >I was under the impression that Arthur is no longer working > with Hawkwind, > > Seems you are right. For some reason I had the idea that he might be > appearing on at least some dates on the current mini-tour, > though thinking > about it now, I'm not sure where I got that idea. > > Nick > From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 22 12:41:11 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:41:11 -0400 Subject: HW: Arthur Brown Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:23:20 +0100, Nick Lee wrote: >That Wolverhampton gig poster Aha, yes, I saw that on the venerable Starfarer site, that was indeed the source of my confusion. Nick M From paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK Thu Apr 22 14:30:57 2004 From: paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK (pauleatonjones) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:30:57 +0100 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Mad Arab, ( and The Necronomicon) who often appears offstage in the H.P. Lovecraft mythos, was I think called Abdul Alhazred. On Thursday, Apr 22, 2004, at 04:24 Europe/London, Mike Montfort wrote: > I believe the Necronmicon was attributed to "the Mad Arab" as the > author. > > My college all night prog radio show in LA in the early 80's was called > > Mad Arab's Midnight Caravan. > > Not very Politically Correct name these days but what the hell. > > More Serendipity. > > Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. > > http://corwyn.blogspot.com > the blog > http://www.mikemontfort.com > the website > _________________________ > Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly > submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously > uses his intelligence. > -- Albert Einstein > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Eric Siegerman > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 1:38 PM > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger > > > On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 02:21:21PM -0400, Nick Medford wrote: >> The Necronomicon (book of dead names) is a fictitious "ancient >> manuscript" >> dreamed up by HP Lovecraft > > Someone just mentioned this on another list: > http://www.hello-cthulhu.com/?date=2003-11-30 > Talk about timing! > > -- > > | | /\ > |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com > | | / > It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer > wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the > drum kit around during songs. > - Patrick Lenneau > From mlicht at CYBERMESA.COM Thu Apr 22 14:51:17 2004 From: mlicht at CYBERMESA.COM (Mark Licht) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:51:17 -0600 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike, Do tell what station was that? KXLU? Mark -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Mike Montfort Subject: Re: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger I believe the Necronmicon was attributed to "the Mad Arab" as the author. My college all night prog radio show in LA in the early 80's was called Mad Arab's Midnight Caravan. Not very Politically Correct name these days but what the hell. More Serendipity. Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. From hw at CY-B.ORG Thu Apr 22 16:21:47 2004 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:21:47 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: + ++ ++ STAR WARRIORS + ++ ++ For those curious about the design of the tour T-Shirt, we have a mock-up on Mission Control: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hwind/temp/to_04st-ts.htm + ++ ++ MESSAGE ENDS + ++ + ++ From erics at TELEPRES.COM Thu Apr 22 17:35:49 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:35:49 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: ; from hw@CY-B.ORG on Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 04:21:47PM -0400 Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 04:21:47PM -0400, Rik Rx wrote: > For those curious about the design of the tour T-Shirt, > we have a mock-up on Mission Control: So who's the new guy being titrated in to the mix? I thought for a moment it was JR "Bob" Dobbs :-) -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Thu Apr 22 17:48:09 2004 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:48:09 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: Matthew Wright ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Siegerman" To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 10:35 PM Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts > On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 04:21:47PM -0400, Rik Rx wrote: > > For those curious about the design of the tour T-Shirt, > > we have a mock-up on Mission Control: > > So who's the new guy being titrated in to the mix? I thought for > a moment it was JR "Bob" Dobbs :-) > > -- > > | | /\ > |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com > | | / > It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer > wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the > drum kit around during songs. > - Patrick Lenneau From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Thu Apr 22 17:56:32 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:56:32 -0400 Subject: BRAIN: news....! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: New member. New endorsement. New anniversary show date. Same kick ass rock n' roll. cellsum.com From jmajk at INDY.RR.COM Thu Apr 22 21:45:09 2004 From: jmajk at INDY.RR.COM (John Majka) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:45:09 -0500 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: Egads! Perhaps the most ghastly HW shirt design I've ever seen! John Majka ----- Original Message ----- > For those curious about the design of the tour T-Shirt, > we have a mock-up on Mission Control: > > http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hwind/temp/to_04st-ts.htm > > > + ++ ++ MESSAGE ENDS + ++ + ++ From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Thu Apr 22 21:47:11 2004 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:47:11 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: sweet t-shirt Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Rik Rx Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 4:22 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts + ++ ++ STAR WARRIORS + ++ ++ For those curious about the design of the tour T-Shirt, we have a mock-up on Mission Control: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hwind/temp/to_04st-ts.htm + ++ ++ MESSAGE ENDS + ++ + ++ From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Thu Apr 22 21:47:47 2004 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:47:47 -0400 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: KSPC Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Mark Licht Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 2:51 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger Mike, Do tell what station was that? KXLU? Mark -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Mike Montfort Subject: Re: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger I believe the Necronmicon was attributed to "the Mad Arab" as the author. My college all night prog radio show in LA in the early 80's was called Mad Arab's Midnight Caravan. Not very Politically Correct name these days but what the hell. More Serendipity. Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Thu Apr 22 21:48:03 2004 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:48:03 -0400 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Correct as always my good friend Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Arin Komins Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 10:42 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Mike Montfort wrote: :Subject: Re: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger : :I believe the Necronmicon was attributed to "the Mad Arab" as the author. : Specifically, I believe it was the "Mad Arab Abdul Alhazred" wasn't it? cthulhuistically yours, Arin -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Arin Komins akomins at uchicago.edu Manager of Web Systems Architecture University of Chicago/ENSS/NSIT tel: (773)834-4087 1155 E. 60th St. #418 Chicago, IL 60637 fax: (773)702-0559 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From tclark at COX-INTERNET.COM Fri Apr 23 00:24:23 2004 From: tclark at COX-INTERNET.COM (Tom Clark) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: Looking for a intellectual conversation about Hawkwind...and high falootin' commentary? Then do not read on...... The T-short looks like a "mockery" to me. Just my two or three cents or pence worth...is it some more of self parody of past accomplishments? C'mon guys....Kinda reminds me of compilation albums...or is that T-shirt's design a takeoff of tthe album's "Sonic Attack". I quite enjoy Hawkwind music, for my own reason's, which I would like to think that was what the intention of making that music was to begin with...and share that state of mindset....though it happened to me personally with the past music, present, and sometimes in-between, and then again, sometimes not at all, having felt the reprocussions of having purchases repackaged music of various qualities. But in respect of it all, the uniqueness of Hawkwind music did shape my life in a profound way. But there is always a "but"....and I will so ramble on.... Speakling of retrospect and contradictions....and to be very contradictory, I have to say, that I enjoyed Nik's show last year in Philadelphia. It was true to form. He did not attempt to commercialize and sell T-Shirts that aggrandized Hawkwind's past. That bought my respect, as I stood practically alone mid floor with a grin from ear to ear while his backing band quite faithfully recreated teh sounds of his earlier HW music.. The music stood for itself, even for the three hours, which will never be recreated again. No"live" bootlegs.....no t-shirts..stickers.......just a memory of an honest attempt at making the audience leave with a grin....and that it did. It was a joy. Bottom line? T-shirts do not speak for the music...even if retrospective. Thought the "old" stands on it's own, where is the "new", if this is the "Hawkwind" that is supposed to be, as opposed to the controversy that is seen as Nik Turner going out and playing old Hawkwind songs........under a name that at one time was similar to Hawkwind....oh...I think it was "Ex-Hawkwind", which created bad feelings.... Whassupwith that? From jmajk at INDY.RR.COM Fri Apr 23 00:56:15 2004 From: jmajk at INDY.RR.COM (John Majka) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:56:15 -0500 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: I'd certainly second this opinion.... Besides which, the shirt just doesn't look "cool"! And then Matthew Wright's face being added to the HW blend as if he's the "secret added ingredient" BAH! > The T-short looks like a "mockery" to me. Just my two or three cents or > pence worth...is it some more of self parody of past accomplishments? > > C'mon guys....Kinda reminds me of compilation albums...or is that T-shirt's From CWarburton at OAG.COM Fri Apr 23 08:08:30 2004 From: CWarburton at OAG.COM (CWarburton at OAG.COM) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:08:30 +0100 Subject: OFF: Monastic literature Message-ID: Hey, not just the Belgians... Who do you think started the brewing tradition in Burton-on-Trent??? Subsequently b*ggered-up and mostly sold off by the gin-swilling b*st*rds in London... The Bass water tower now has a big "Coors" sign instaed of the red triangle (Trademark No.1) ChrisW -----Original Message----- Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:36:09 -0400 From: Doug Pearson Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Monastic literature was Re: Download Research Shows Sales Unaffected On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:18:28 +0100, Jill Strobridge wrote: >Actually the monasteries made their enormous wealth from (1) wool and >(2) donations of land for chantries (which in effect meant it was >theirs for ever) which they either used to graze even more sheep or >gave to others and just collected the rents. Don't forget (3) BEER from those wonderful Belgian Trappists! (Although I think that Jill might be referring solely to English monastaries here, in which case I don't think beer would be applicable.) -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From horse at DARKSTAR.UK.NET Fri Apr 23 08:30:05 2004 From: horse at DARKSTAR.UK.NET (Horse) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:30:05 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <000701c428ef$50a2d540$6701a8c0@MAJKA> Message-ID: T-Shirt looks fine to me - only problem was I didn't have enough dosh to get one at the time at the Norwich gig. And I didn't even know about the tour program's!!! Bugger! Is it possible to get one or both of said items by mail order or something? Colin?... Kris?.... Anyone?... Cheers Horse On 22 Apr 2004 at 23:56, John Majka wrote: > I'd certainly second this opinion.... > Besides which, the shirt just doesn't look "cool"! > And then Matthew Wright's face being added to the HW blend as if he's the > "secret added ingredient" BAH! > > > The T-short looks like a "mockery" to me. Just my two or three cents or > > pence worth...is it some more of self parody of past accomplishments? > > > > C'mon guys....Kinda reminds me of compilation albums...or is that > T-shirt's From michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU Fri Apr 23 09:24:50 2004 From: michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU (MiChAeL "aLiEn DrEaM" bLaCkMaN) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:54:50 +0930 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: Who is Matthew Wright? I know i've heard the name mentioned on this or another list before but cant quite recall just now... I thought the shirt looked alright - just didn't know who's little face that was in the dropper. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Majka" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts > I'd certainly second this opinion.... > Besides which, the shirt just doesn't look "cool"! > And then Matthew Wright's face being added to the HW blend as if he's the > "secret added ingredient" BAH! > > > The T-short looks like a "mockery" to me. Just my two or three cents or > > pence worth...is it some more of self parody of past accomplishments? > > > > C'mon guys....Kinda reminds me of compilation albums...or is that > T-shirt's > From maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK Fri Apr 23 09:36:04 2004 From: maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK (Maxine Wesley) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:36:04 +0100 Subject: HW: Portsmouth Message-ID: Hi, Well for a change round here it actually appears that people have bothered with 'promoting' a live band in the area (normally venues even with well known bands are empty as nobody knew they were playing - local press disinterest I assume). Anyway the local free rag landed on my doorstep last night and therein not one mention of Hawkwind's forthcoming gig at the Pyramids... but two! The first was obviously penned by a fan (don't know who) and I was going to cut it out and type up the 'advertisemnt' but forgot to pick it up n the way to work - anyway it mentioned the longevity of the band and how they are still performing after all these years but it was the last line that I liked - something along the lines of "If you don't go to the show then life will probably just carry on as it has before.. but if you do go you might undergo an inextricabable life changing experience... Not a bad plug (for round here anyways!) regards Maxine From cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET Fri Apr 23 10:38:04 2004 From: cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET (Rich) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:38:04 -0500 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <00b401c428ea$dafb5820$0c01a8c0@TOMSHOME> Message-ID: >The T-short looks like a "mockery" to me. Just my two or three cents or >pence worth...is it some more of self parody of past accomplishments? So Don't buy one ;-) Doesn't look like a mockery, it looks like promotion prior to a single release with Matthew. Looks pretty colourful to me, so we'll be buying some. >I quite enjoy Hawkwind music, for my own reason's, which I would like to >think that was what the intention of making that music was to begin >with...and share that state of mindset....though it happened to me >personally with the past music, present, and sometimes in-between, and then >again, sometimes not at all, having felt the reprocussions of having >purchases repackaged music of various qualities. >But in respect of it all, the uniqueness of Hawkwind music did shape my life >in a profound way. But there is always a "but"....and I will so ramble >on.... >Speakling of retrospect and contradictions....and to be very contradictory, >I have to say, that I enjoyed Nik's show last year in Philadelphia. It was >true to form. He did not attempt to commercialize and sell T-Shirts that >aggrandized Hawkwind's past. That bought my respect, as I stood >practically alone mid floor with a grin from ear to ear while his backing >band quite faithfully recreated teh sounds of his earlier HW music.. The >music stood for itself, even for the three hours, which will never be >recreated again. No"live" bootlegs.....no t-shirts..stickers.......just a >memory of an honest attempt at making the audience leave with a grin....and >that it did. >It was a joy. Stickers! Haven't seen any of those, where, I'll buy em. Commercial or no, every band I've ever seen sells merchandise, helps keep them going. And I'm all over anything that keeps HW going. I would jump at the chance to be able to buy more merchandise! Pretty much every HW gig I've been to has left the audience with more than a grin :-)When was the last time you saw the Hawks, they've been pretty incredible live the last few years!! >Thought the "old" stands on it's own, where is the "new", if this is the >"Hawkwind" that is supposed to be, as opposed to the controversy that is >seen as Nik Turner going out and playing old Hawkwind songs........under a >name that at one time was similar to Hawkwind....oh...I think it was >"Ex-Hawkwind", which created bad feelings.... The "new" is coming very shortly, I'm looking forward to the new CD personally. And from seeing the material live, the new stands up just fine. From tclark at COX-INTERNET.COM Fri Apr 23 10:48:35 2004 From: tclark at COX-INTERNET.COM (Tom Clark) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:48:35 -0500 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: Ok...I am back to lurking once again, and promise no more drunken ramblings. Wish I could have retracted that. Am quite redfaced this morning... From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Fri Apr 23 13:13:07 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:13:07 -0400 Subject: OFF: was Monster Magnet, now HRGiger Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:47:47 -0400, Mike Montfort wrote: >KSPC Bill Chen era? -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET Fri Apr 23 13:32:08 2004 From: cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET (Rich) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:32:08 -0500 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <002801c42936$5b4a3820$7eca8890@DrSBlackman> Message-ID: He's a radio and TV personality in the UK :-) Rich -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of MiChAeL "aLiEn DrEaM" bLaCkMaN Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 8:25 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts Who is Matthew Wright? I know i've heard the name mentioned on this or another list before but cant quite recall just now... I thought the shirt looked alright - just didn't know who's little face that was in the dropper. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Majka" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts > I'd certainly second this opinion.... > Besides which, the shirt just doesn't look "cool"! > And then Matthew Wright's face being added to the HW blend as if he's the > "secret added ingredient" BAH! > > > The T-short looks like a "mockery" to me. Just my two or three cents or > > pence worth...is it some more of self parody of past accomplishments? > > > > C'mon guys....Kinda reminds me of compilation albums...or is that > T-shirt's > From dplaw at IC24.NET Fri Apr 23 13:46:48 2004 From: dplaw at IC24.NET (Dave Law) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:46:48 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:32:08 -0500, Rich wrote: >He's a radio and TV personality in the UK :-) > >Rich > and from my experience a nice bloke as well, he took time out of his busy schedule to do a little e-mail interiview for the hawkwind museum site which can be accessed here http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/the4.htm that may also spread a bit more light on him hope that helps regards dave From colm.mcwilliams at NTLWORLD.COM Fri Apr 23 14:06:54 2004 From: colm.mcwilliams at NTLWORLD.COM (colm mcwilliams) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:06:54 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: and famous for outing john leslie live on tv as the unnamed man in ulrika johnson's autobiography who was allegded to have raped her. He was the mirrors gossip columnist for 5 years too apparently. colm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts > He's a radio and TV personality in the UK :-) > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of MiChAeL "aLiEn DrEaM" > bLaCkMaN > Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 8:25 AM > To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts > > > Who is Matthew Wright? I know i've heard the name mentioned on this or > another list before but cant quite recall just now... > > I thought the shirt looked alright - just didn't know who's little face that > was in the dropper. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Majka" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts > > > > I'd certainly second this opinion.... > > Besides which, the shirt just doesn't look "cool"! > > And then Matthew Wright's face being added to the HW blend as if he's the > > "secret added ingredient" BAH! > > > > > The T-short looks like a "mockery" to me. Just my two or three cents or > > > pence worth...is it some more of self parody of past accomplishments? > > > > > > C'mon guys....Kinda reminds me of compilation albums...or is that > > T-shirt's > > > From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Apr 23 14:46:08 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:46:08 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:06:54 +0100, colm mcwilliams wrote: He was the >mirrors gossip columnist for 5 years Hardly a character reference. Nick From dplaw at IC24.NET Fri Apr 23 14:53:03 2004 From: dplaw at IC24.NET (Dave Law) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:53:03 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:46:08 -0400, Nick Medford wrote: >On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:06:54 +0100, colm mcwilliams > wrote: > > He was the >>mirrors gossip columnist for 5 years > >Hardly a character reference. > >Nick could have been worse, he could have worked for The Sun, The Star or Daily Sport! regards Dave From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Fri Apr 23 15:29:00 2004 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:29:00 +0100 Subject: Portsmouth Message-ID: Ahem! I do have to admit to having written that! Probably why I am not a copywriter! Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maxine Wesley" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:36 PM Subject: HW: Portsmouth > Hi, > > Well for a change round here it actually appears that people have > bothered with 'promoting' a live band in the area (normally venues even > with well known bands are empty as nobody knew they were playing - > local press disinterest I assume). > > Anyway the local free rag landed on my doorstep last night and therein > not one mention of Hawkwind's forthcoming gig at the Pyramids... but > two! > > The first was obviously penned by a fan (don't know who) and I was > going to cut it out and type up the 'advertisemnt' but forgot to pick it up > n the way to work - anyway it mentioned the longevity of the band and > how they are still performing after all these years but it was the last line > that I liked - something along the lines of "If you don't go to the show > then life will probably just carry on as it has before.. but if you do go you > might undergo an inextricabable life changing experience... > > Not a bad plug (for round here anyways!) > > regards > > Maxine From colm.mcwilliams at NTLWORLD.COM Fri Apr 23 15:37:38 2004 From: colm.mcwilliams at NTLWORLD.COM (colm mcwilliams) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:37:38 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Law" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts > On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:46:08 -0400, Nick Medford > wrote: > > >On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:06:54 +0100, colm mcwilliams > > wrote: > > > > He was the > >>mirrors gossip columnist for 5 years > > > >Hardly a character reference. > > > >Nick > > could have been worse, he could have worked for The Sun, The Star or Daily > Sport! > regards > Dave to be honest i dont see any difference between the papers you mention above and the mirror even if they have different polictical view points. colm > From mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK Fri Apr 23 18:20:49 2004 From: mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK (mark von bargen) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:20:49 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nick wrote: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:06:54 +0100, colm mcwilliams wrote: He was the >mirrors gossip columnist for 5 years Hardly a character reference. Nick But several leaps and bounds up from being the Sun's gossip columnist! Mark From mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK Fri Apr 23 18:23:17 2004 From: mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK (mark von bargen) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:23:17 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <005a01c4296a$6f724b10$42776051@IRONDREAM> Message-ID: Colm Wrote: > On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:46:08 -0400, Nick Medford > wrote: > > >On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:06:54 +0100, colm mcwilliams > > wrote: > > > > He was the > >>mirrors gossip columnist for 5 years > > > >Hardly a character reference. > > > >Nick > > could have been worse, he could have worked for The Sun, The Star or Daily > Sport! > regards > Dave to be honest i dont see any difference between the papers you mention above and the mirror even if they have different polictical view points. colm > Don't start me about the Sun Grrrr From colm.mcwilliams at NTLWORLD.COM Fri Apr 23 19:14:26 2004 From: colm.mcwilliams at NTLWORLD.COM (colm mcwilliams) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:14:26 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "mark von bargen" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 11:20 PM Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts > Nick wrote: > > On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:06:54 +0100, colm mcwilliams > wrote: > > He was the > >mirrors gossip columnist for 5 years > > Hardly a character reference. > > Nick > > But several leaps and bounds up from being the Sun's gossip columnist! > > Mark i have to disagree as i think their is no difference being a gossip columnist for either the sun or the mirror. colm From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Apr 23 19:51:23 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:51:23 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:20:49 +0100, mark von bargen wrote: >Nick wrote: > >On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:06:54 +0100, colm mcwilliams > wrote: > > He was the >>mirrors gossip columnist for 5 years > >Hardly a character reference. > >Nick > >But several leaps and bounds up from being the Sun's gossip columnist! Emphatically agreed. Even so, we're still talking about the British tabloid press... you know how it goes- give-em-what they-want, keep-em-stupid, keep- em-docile... one of the very worst aspects of this country IMHO. OK, so Mr Wright is apparently a nice bloke, and clearly he's a genuine HW fan, fair enough. And HW's public profile is now very low, the cult following of the 70s and 80s having dwindled away to a large extent. So HW basically need all the publicity they can get, and having a "celebrity fan" presents some opportunities for that. However- this overdone "Matthew Wright connection", and the way it's being milked, makes me cringe. Sorry about that. But I still hope the single does well! Nick From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Fri Apr 23 23:05:19 2004 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:05:19 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: However getting back on the topic of T-Shirts.... A mockery? E-Gads it just a T-Shirt. I love Hawkwind and I love this group (and the Yahoo Group) but some of you fans are way too serious. Hawkwind provides a product, they don't owe us anything. Buy the product (Tshirt or CD) or don't. Have an opinion, I like the Tshirt or I don't.. but a mockery? Just seems a bit over the top. But then I'm just a laid back Yank so what do I know eh? Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein From Filip.Vanhuyse at PANDORA.BE Sat Apr 24 02:39:10 2004 From: Filip.Vanhuyse at PANDORA.BE (Filip Vanhuyse) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:39:10 +0200 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well said Mike As I know the band,they certainly like a nice laugh and if they can pull you a leg,they won't hesitate.Or did you think their talk about space-warriors,etc. for 16 hours a day and then dream some 8 hours about spaceships?;-) greetings filip -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]Namens Mike Montfort Verzonden: zaterdag 24 april 2004 5:05 Aan: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Onderwerp: Re: HW: Tour Shirts However getting back on the topic of T-Shirts.... A mockery? E-Gads it just a T-Shirt. I love Hawkwind and I love this group (and the Yahoo Group) but some of you fans are way too serious. Hawkwind provides a product, they don't owe us anything. Buy the product (Tshirt or CD) or don't. Have an opinion, I like the Tshirt or I don't.. but a mockery? Just seems a bit over the top. But then I'm just a laid back Yank so what do I know eh? Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein From zim594j at TNINET.SE Sat Apr 24 05:04:19 2004 From: zim594j at TNINET.SE (Kenneth Magnusson) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:04:19 +0200 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > But then I'm just a laid back Yank so what do I know eh? > Isn't that a self-contradictionary statement ? ; ) I must say, though, that I prefer a "cool" design to a "funny" dito. Rush is also sporting a fun design for their upcoming tour but I would have prefered something more, erm, serious... Kenneth From paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK Sat Apr 24 11:56:38 2004 From: paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK (pauleatonjones) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:56:38 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Too right! And going even further what's a T-shirt? A glorified VEST!!! To paraphrase Zappa, a gentleman's cotton undergarment. Mind you I have nearly all the tour shirts for the last 30 years! Ho-hum. Paul. On Saturday, Apr 24, 2004, at 04:05 Europe/London, Mike Montfort wrote: > However getting back on the topic of T-Shirts.... > > A mockery? > > E-Gads it just a T-Shirt. > > I love Hawkwind and I love this group (and the Yahoo Group) but some > of you > fans are way too serious. > > Hawkwind provides a product, they don't owe us anything. Buy the > product > (Tshirt or CD) or don't. Have an opinion, I like the Tshirt or I > don't.. > but a mockery? Just seems a bit over the top. > > But then I'm just a laid back Yank so what do I know eh? > > Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. > > http://corwyn.blogspot.com > the blog > http://www.mikemontfort.com > the website > _________________________ > Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly > submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously > uses his intelligence. > -- Albert Einstein > From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Sat Apr 24 12:59:01 2004 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:59:01 +0200 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts, MM, etc... Message-ID: Hey Folx... Well, ok, I thought the T-shirt design was a little strange, too, but I hardly thought it was worth getting upset about. (And yeah, I did note that Tom C. has already let it go too, so really I think it's not worth feeding this thread anymore.) I was happy to see that they've decided to design something 'original,' and while PPracownik's (sp???) design is nice and all, it was time to move ahead. Of course, then I looked closer and noted that that design is warped in there as well. And yeah, I wondered just who the hell that guy was on top... So, Matthew Wright is being dragged into 'shilling' for HW on tour shirts? (Was it necessary to get his permission to use his likeness on such an item? Just curious.) I still don't know much about the guy, but I did look up a biog. and such about him when he was first mentioned here. And I got the impression (like others have already stated) that being a 'gossip' columnist for a British newspaper of curious sort (all of them are, to be honest, from my 'foreign' perspective) is hardly reason for high praise. On the contrary, I got the idea that I would probably be more likely to find him obnoxious. Which may or may not be true, how could I say for sure? Anyway, I figured that we wouldn't hear much more about him, but now I wonder if there's an idea to keep him 'involved,' which I think would a little weird. Oh, and one thing that TomC mentioned, was that at the '03 Nik gig he attended, it was generally 'commercialization-free,' including... "No "live" bootlegs" Well, ok...just note that at Strange Daze 2001, Nik's table featured heaps of CD-R merchandise, including "live bootlegs." Which is fine IMHO...in fact, I bought a couple. I meant to respond briefly to Mike Holmes' question about Burg Herzberg...but never did get 'round to it... OK, it looks like there's a recent update on the site, that gives the following lineup by day... Thurs.: Sky's Shadow, Verspielte Zeit, Nova Drive Fri.: Trigon, Ramses, Birth Control, Randy Hansen, Mr. Quimby's Beard, Guru Guru, Frogg Cafe Sat.: Farfarello & Nippi Noya, Mark Gillespie, Karthago, Hattler, Caravan, Anekdoten, Hawkwind, Pothead Sun.: Ole Lukkoye, Jahcoustix & Dubious Neighbourhood, Dissidenten, Panteon Rococo, 17 Hippies So this gives me the impression that indeed Hawkwind seems to be the overall Festival headliner, which follows nicely with last year where Nektar was headliner, even though Vanilla Fudge, Ten Years After, and Eric Burdon all performed. Guru Guru (who I saw just last night, in front of a very meager audience of maybe 60, sad to say) looks to be Friday's night headliner. They are also very good IMHO, though they're starting to do the same set too much. Which isn't a problem for those who haven't ever seen them I suppose. NB: Last year, some bands got moved around a bit, so the schedule is always a little fluid there it seems. So...there's a lot of great stuff here! Birth Control is still a pretty good band these days (IMHO), and MQB leading into Guru Guru is nothing to sneeze at. And on Saturday, as warmup for HW, we'll have (what looks to be) Kraan's bassist Helmut Hattler (?), presumably a jazz-progressive band of some sort, and then Caravan and Anekdoten. Neither to be missed! On Sunday, there's Russia's cool psychedelic combo Ole Lukkoye (one the few here I *haven't* seen before), and also 17 Hippies at the end...who feature L?tz Ulbrich, of Agitation Free, Ashra, and Nico fame. I don't know what they're like to be honest, but will be interesting to see/hear. >> Here is an accounting of my experience at last year's event... >> http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue24/burgherz.html >> which should give some basic info. about how it works there. > >Very useful. Thanks Keith, and you've made me very jealous through your >description of Nektar's set. Nektar just played here in Switzerland again...completely different vibe! 150 people crammed into a tiny little room (no lightshow sadly, but...), and they really smoked. I'm very impressed with the skill of all four of these guys to perform their old works up to the same quality as they were originally done thirty years ago. They are doing shows in the UK soon (?), and then in the US (with Caravan) this fall. Don't miss them! >> Any specific questions about the location/protocol/etc., feel free to ask. > >What's the deal on camping? Are cars separate or parked next to tents >as at Hawkfest? Yeah, that was happening...no problem. It was pretty much unpoliced. The rows formed themselves, it seemed. >Are fires permitted in the evenings? That I don't remember exactly...but then it was so goddamn hot last year, that I don't think anybody was so interested in a fire! My guess is that if you had wood to burn, and a way to light it and keep it from getting out of hand, that you could just do it. >Are there larger communal fires? Not that I saw. >> P.S. Should we try to put together our own little boc-l community camping >> zone at the fest? > >Sounds like a good plan, though attempts at landlording generally fail >when the space gets limited Well, ok, with the lineup as above, I'll probably not plan to arrive until Birth Control Friday afternoon. Which automatically means quite far away from the central site...but still there was no issue about getting in and finding room to camp. I *tried* to get a ticket in advance (which I like to do in all cases, not just to secure entry ahead of time, but also to put money in promoters' pockets to pay upfront costs/deposits), but the bank transfer was nixed 'cause of some stupid thing. So I just showed up and bought a ticket on site, that I was assured in advance that I could do. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ On another note...I saw this note about summer MM touring. It sounds interesting, and maybe worth checking out again, even though I've just seen them. The "Club" vs. "Festival" thing is problematic though, from my perspective, since there aren't any obvious club performances (which I've tried to indicate with an *) in the immediate area. >From MonsterMagnet.net: YO beautiful people, Dave (Wyndorf) here! Just to let you know that the set list for the club shows in Europe this summer will be almost completly different from this past tour with strong bend [sic]towards the psychedelic. Of course the festivals will be all out rock. 05 June 2004 Donington Park - Download Festival, United Kingdom 07 June 2004 Oxford - Zodiac, United Kingdom* 08 June 2004 Colchester - Art Centre, United Kingdom* 11 June 2004 S?lvesborg - Sweden Rock Festival, Sweden 14 June 2004 TBC - TBC, Luxembourg* 16 June 2004 Utrecht - Tivoli, Netherlands* 17 June 2004 Eindhoven - Effenaar, Netherlands* 19 June 2004 Burgum - Waldrock Festival, Netherlands 22 June 2004 Wiesbaden - Schlachthof, Germany* 23 June 2004 Hildesheim - Vier Linden, Germany* 24 June 2004 Potsdam - Lindenpark, Germany* 27 June 2004 Bremen - Hurricane Festival, Germany 28 June 2004 Neuhausen ob Eck - Southside Festival, Germany 30 June 2004 Trier - Sommerbuhne, Germany*? (probably outdoor, so...) 01 July 2004 Bochum - Zeche, Germany* 02 July 2004 Werchter - Rock Werchter Festival, Belgium 04 July 2004 Leipzig - With Full Force Festival, Germany 10 July 2004 Kristiansand - Quart Festival, Norway 12 July 2004 Isle of Ruissalo - Ruisrock Festival, Finland 18 July 2004 Gurten (Bern) - Gurten Festival, Switzerland Maybe working in some new material to prepare for that co-headline tour of the US with HW this fall! :) Grakkl (FAA) From ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET Sat Apr 24 14:43:54 2004 From: ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET (Tim) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:43:54 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts, MM, etc... Message-ID: P.E.Parcownik(?)-isn't he the guy that did the weird Hawkwind poster with the angel,ufos,strange monument thingies,etc??? tim 8>)... Henderson Keith wrote: > > Hey Folx... > > Well, ok, I thought the T-shirt design was a little strange, too, but I > hardly thought it was worth getting upset about. (And yeah, I did note that > Tom C. has already let it go too, so really I think it's not worth feeding > this thread anymore.) I was happy to see that they've decided to design > something 'original,' and while PPracownik's (sp???) design is nice and all, > it was time to move ahead. Of course, then I looked closer and noted that > that design is warped in there as well. And yeah, I wondered just who the > hell that guy was on top... From mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK Sat Apr 24 14:55:26 2004 From: mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK (mark von bargen) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:55:26 +0100 Subject: HW: Manchester Ritz - 25th April Message-ID: I have a better than even chance of making it to the Ritz tomorrow night - ticket in hand but hoping for some health improvements before I can get going (that's my wife and youngest daughter, not me). I know it's late but I added my mobile phone number at the bottom So, Any directions to get to the Ritz; I gotta' drive over from Liverpool. Any cap parking nearby? Any pre-gig drinks venue? Anybody know the show start time? If I make it will be the one with: The curly hair - haven't had a chance to shave it off recently Scruffy tracky bottoms Scruffy old trainees Blue fleece jacket, maybe Liverpool FC shirt (Hopefully) See ya tomorrow night Mark 07711 286613 From Filip.Vanhuyse at PANDORA.BE Sat Apr 24 15:10:07 2004 From: Filip.Vanhuyse at PANDORA.BE (Filip Vanhuyse) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 21:10:07 +0200 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts, MM, etc... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes,that's the one -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]Namens Tim Verzonden: zaterdag 24 april 2004 20:44 Aan: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Onderwerp: Re: HW: Tour Shirts, MM, etc... P.E.Parcownik(?)-isn't he the guy that did the weird Hawkwind poster with the angel,ufos,strange monument thingies,etc??? tim 8>)... Henderson Keith wrote: > > Hey Folx... > > Well, ok, I thought the T-shirt design was a little strange, too, but I > hardly thought it was worth getting upset about. (And yeah, I did note that > Tom C. has already let it go too, so really I think it's not worth feeding > this thread anymore.) I was happy to see that they've decided to design > something 'original,' and while PPracownik's (sp???) design is nice and all, > it was time to move ahead. Of course, then I looked closer and noted that > that design is warped in there as well. And yeah, I wondered just who the > hell that guy was on top... From jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Apr 24 17:19:41 2004 From: jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Jill Strobridge) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:19:41 +0100 Subject: HW: Glasgow 22nd April and Aberdeen 23rd April Message-ID: Can't believe it's only Saturday - 2 Hawkwind gigs and still a whole weekend left to enjoy - this is the way to do it! I shall gloss briefly over Glasgow and not linger too long there. Not the fault of the band who were playing well - I hasten to say - but the venue turned out to be something markedly similar to one of the smaller circles of purgatory - the one where everyone is crammed into a tiny room the size of someone's back bedroom - there is a good band playing good music you want to hear but it's so totally mashed by bad acoustics you can't bear to listen to it - you know that Hawkwind are up there somewhere but you can't see diddly squat through the mass of heaving humanity between you and the stage and every time you try and ease into a better position you get stepped on, squashed, poked, walked in front of, behind of, jostled - and when you fall back to try and draw breath a drunken Glasgow accent you can barely hear above the rest of the noise starts telling you his life history and asking for yours. There's only a minimal light show because there's only a single 13amp plug available and, worst, the black painted ceiling is so low that even I standing upright could almost touch it. That one. The band were on good form though it can't have been easy but the slower instrumental numbers produced chanting of "Hawkwind" rather than an appreciative silence. However - another night, another venue, and after the purgatory of Glasgow, Aberdeen was paradise! My hotel was rather old-fashioned, very posh and surprisingly cheap, I found a fantastic place to eat and then met up with Alan Taylor, Alan Lindsay, Andy Garibaldi and others. The venue was lovely - a splendid high-ceilinged ex-cinema adorned with plaster sculptures and painted walls with a tall stage, a small balcony for the full light show and a non-reflective screen (so I was told by Marie!) at the back so the colours showed in their full intensity instead of being muted by white ultra-violet glow. And Keith Barton was there and Kris and they both came to say hi - which was really nice - before disappearing back into the complexities of stage equipment setting up (that sounded mightily complicated with all the sequencing and other electronic stuff) and tour sorting out (and there's loads of complicated organising involved there - such hard work is being done on these tours!). There was room to move around and, though Huw's solo set was a bit sparsely attended, the crowd steadily built up until there was a solid atmosphere and Hawkwind were - fantastic. The set seemed to start a bit lightweight - Angela Android is a strong, fast, vocal track but without great depths of instrumentation underlying it and the drumming seemed surprisingly loud and brash but after that the tracks just got stronger and stronger. "Quality" I heard someone say behind me when the band paused for breath after Where Are They Now - "that's real quality". And it just got better. The Chaos light show was in full flow - brilliantly colourful abstract sequences (my favourite were the spiked circles with a multicoloured spiral infilling) with some images - the fighter shots in The Right Stuff were spectacular. The band were playing really well together - and the mixing was so good that I didn't, at all, feel that another instrument was needed. Between them they managed to create all the layers and depth and quality of sound necessary. They finished the set with Assassins of Allah (rather than Ejection) which was an excellent decision because everyone was still bouncing around and on a high and then came back for a two-track encore starting with Brainbox Pollution before sliding into Brainstorm. Very satisfactory. The only track I didn't quite come to terms with was the new techno/industrial one "Trip?" probably because I couldn't make out the words spoken by the ?vocoder? - I'm sure I remember Dave introducing it as "Ode to a Timeflower" and indeed it could have been Calvert's poem enunciated by computer (or, then again, I could just be imagining it - it was that sort of an evening!). And now I'm wondering about Wolverhampton. jill ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jill Strobridge ----------------------------------------------------------------- From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Sun Apr 25 05:23:09 2004 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:23:09 +0200 Subject: Totally OFF: Top 10 Worst Message-ID: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Music/04/21/music.worst.songs.ap/ My list...based both on personal (dis)taste and previous/chance-of- additional exposure (very important!)... 10. Jive Talkin' - Bee Gees 9. Hotel California - Eagles 8. Should I Stay or Should I Go - The Clash 7. Good Thing - Fine Young Cannibals 6. Pink - Aerosmith 5. The Tide is High - Blondie 4. Like a Rock - Bob Seger 3. Born in the USA - Bruce Springsteen 2. Knockin' on Heaven's Door - Guns & Roses 1. The Reflex - Duran Duran Grakkl (FAA) From alankerren at YAHOO.CO.UK Sun Apr 25 06:11:04 2004 From: alankerren at YAHOO.CO.UK (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alan=20Linsley?=) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:11:04 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts, MM, etc... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- Henderson Keith wrote: > From MonsterMagnet.net: > 07 June 2004 Oxford - Zodiac, United Kingdom* :-) > 11 June 2004 S?lvesborg - Sweden Rock Festival, Sweden Same day HW play there. With The Right Stuff in both setlists at the moment, who's gonna jam with who? AL ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Sun Apr 25 14:11:58 2004 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:11:58 +0100 Subject: OFF Astoria night, PT, Lem, more... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Henderson Keith wrote: > >> Opening act was some band from Berlin, with a crazy- > >> haired female singer, that sounded much like AC/DC in every way. I > >> guess one of their tunes was actually written for them by Lemmy himself, > >> and I think it was one of the better ones. > > >At a guess, that would be Doro? > > Nope, I've 'remembered' since (by seeing their CD in the stacks the > other day, when picking up that Monster Magnet), that the band was > called Skew Siskin. I thought originally that that must have been > *her* (stage) name, but nope, it's something else entirely. *That* > I've forgotten for good (though I'm sure if I really wanted to know, > I could look it up online in 10 seconds). Aha yes, they were first support, before HW, at the Wembley Arena gig. I completely missed them and nothing I've so far heard of them has made me think that was a shame. > Doro (Pesch?) is still around these parts...I'm sure I've seen her > name listed on concert schedules...I think she opened for Saxon even. She was playing in England only a couple of years back and had a new album out not so long ago. In relative terms, obviously... > >Why didn't we get a review of On Trial, then, eh? :-) > > Sorry, here it is...didn't post it to boc-l directly this time. > http://aural-innovations.com/2004/january/ontrial7.html Cool! Many thanks Keith. Should have spotted it myself due to fervent AI browsing if I knew what was good for me, and so on. Glad to see they're still operational. They had a new album out not so long ago too, didn't they? Is it up to scratch? Yours, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Sun Apr 25 17:51:10 2004 From: deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (deadearnest) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:51:10 +0100 Subject: OFF Astoria night, PT, Lem, more... Message-ID: Up to scratch? It's just BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!! Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Jarrett To: Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 7:11 PM Subject: Re: OFF Astoria night, PT, Lem, more... > > >Why didn't we get a review of On Trial, then, eh? :-) They had a new album out not so long ago too, > didn't they? Is it up to scratch? Yours, > Jon From hawkfan at RATSAUCE.CO.UK Mon Apr 26 01:51:12 2004 From: hawkfan at RATSAUCE.CO.UK (HawkFan) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:51:12 +0100 Subject: Hawkwind stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <00c701c42b0f$6cfc62c0$157c8751@andy> Message-ID: A bit late I know as they only have 12 hours to go, but I've just seen a number of Hawkwind CDs on eBay. The link to the seller is http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=westham burgerlady. There's nothing really rare though. JR From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Mon Apr 26 07:12:11 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:12:11 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Nick Medford's message of Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:51:23 -0400 Message-ID: Nick Medford writes: > Emphatically agreed. Even so, we're still talking about the British tabloid > press... you know how it goes- give-em-what they-want, keep-em-stupid, keep- > em-docile... one of the very worst aspects of this country IMHO. This crap always annoys me. My parents read the tabloids. people reading tabloids are quite simply not so stupid that they can't see through all the cant telling them how to vote. That their choice of how to be entertained doesn't match our own choices does not make them stupid. What I suspect is that people promulgating this excuse for a theory really want us to think not that tabloid readers are stupid, but that because they are not tabloid readers, and look down on them, they must be incredibly clever. This is not so dissimilar really to some of the music press dismissals of Hawkwind fans or the disdain of some opera or classical music lovers of the entirety of popular music. > OK, so Mr Wright is apparently a nice bloke, and clearly he's a > genuine HW fan, fair enough. And HW's public profile is now very low, > the cult following of the 70s and 80s having dwindled away to a large > extent. So HW basically need all the publicity they can get, and > having a "celebrity fan" presents some opportunities for that. > However- this overdone "Matthew Wright connection", and the way it's > being milked, makes me cringe. That's showbiz. FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Mon Apr 26 07:14:39 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:14:39 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Mike Montfort's message of Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:05:19 -0400 Message-ID: Mike Montfort writes: > Hawkwind provides a product, they don't owe us anything. Buy the product > (Tshirt or CD) or don't. Have an opinion, I like the Tshirt or I don't.. > but a mockery? Speaking of which... We were discussing on the way to the Glasgow gig, whether Silver Machine was written to be a kind of ant-single when production of a single was foisted on the band by the evil record company. Thoughts? FoFP From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Mon Apr 26 08:09:17 2004 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:09:17 +0100 Subject: NIK: Re: Real Festival Music - gig - Nik Turner's Space Unit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, trev wrote: > NIK TURNER'S SPACE UNIT > > Will be performing at the Underworld > http://www.theunderworldcamden.co.uk , Camden Town, London on Thursday > the11th of March 1994, on stage at 10.30 approx, open til late. > > The participants in this "Spacerock Supergroup Frenzy" will include > The Mighty Thunder Rider himself, Judge Trev, Commander Jim Hawkman, > David Anderson, The Fabulous Angie, Jackie Windmill, Myreg, Ola, and > introducing Gordy Everitt - new bass boy, and other "special guests" > to be announced. > > The musicians will be careful to ensure that there are absolutely no > rehearsals prior to the gig in order to recreate the original "vibe" > of the great days of Acid Rock in old Camden Town - the heart of Inner > City Unit's stomping ground. I didn't see anyone else I knew at this gig, which I only went to on the fly, so I thought some kind of review of what the Other Half are up to might be interesting while I'm unable to get to any of the current HW gigs... I was teaching that evening, so I missed all but one number by the support, Landmarq, and I didn't quite know what to make of them from that; I didn't like it exactly, but more, I didn't even know what they were. Some kind of twin-lead-vocals prog with one female singer was all I really got out of it. They reminded me vaguely of a Cambridge band called Skelliga who are also trying to be many things and on a good day get away with it. Landmarq might get away with it more often, but really, I didn't see enough to tell. It took me some while, even once our own Judge Trev had taken the stage with a towel around his head shouting "death to the infidel!" several times (that might even be as punk as you can currently be I guess), to be sure what was going on with Nik's lot as well. As we started, the line-up was, left to right: Gordy Everitt (second bass, young bloke, possibly from the All Stars?) Dave Anderson (still with head attached, and playing bass) Milo Griffiths (the All Stars drummer, playing drums here too) The Mighty Thunder Rider, Nicholas Turner Esq. (sax, flute, vocals, weird percussive things on a string) Judge Trev (extremely loud guitar for the discerning) Commander Jim Hawkman (synth, extra howling) Jacqui Windmill (umimportant djembe, off-tone screeching) And mention must as ever be made of the fabulous Angie, who really can dance, and who unfortunately had to deal with some idiot trying to paw her for altogether too much of the set. The setlist was, as far as I knew it all: Watching the Grass Grow I scribbled some notes down but I can't read half of them; there was a lot of Trev all over it, but it wasn't quite together, either the bassists' fault or someone else's I wasn't sure, but it was a little uncertain, until they all got to break when it just turned into an extreme freakout and damned pleased I was to see it; If that was the shape of the evening, I decided, that would do me fine; Solitary Astrid Good version, good enough, anyway, but took the wind out of the band's sails rather I thought; Space Invaders Ragged, but still a lot of fun; and the freakout break was everything you could have demanded (expect perhaps coherent); The Bones of Elvis Points for Trev here also, who a few seconds after the drum part had started began shouting "NO, no no stop! It doesn't start like THAT! It starts like THIS" and then stepped up to the microphone and gave us a verse of his best Elvis impression before letting the band carry on. Nik forgot some of the words (hey, it was going to happen at some point), mostly the long list of ethnonyms at the end, but it was still good. It always is, let's face it; ? All Stars number, and therefore interesting to see; everyone played their bits, it was a jazz number and pleasant enough, good to see Nik playing in time as if it was natural to him, but I was still waiting to see what happened next rather; World of LSD I have to say, this one was a bit all over the place. I mean, I suspect I'll never like a version of this I see live as much I like the LP version because of the huge drums that has, but this was one where people not knowing the song (especially either of the bass players) did tell. Skinheads in Leningrad I have now seen this live four times and this was the second best version. Hurrah! Oddly, the best and worst versions I've seen have both been ICU, same line-up even. But I do love the song. Remember (Margate Beach) I'm stupidly vulnerable to this song, but the backing vocals weren't quite good enough to get the full Phil Spector tear-jerk effect. I think everyone was having too good a time to make it as faux-tragic as it could be. I still enjoyed it though. Little Black Egg Including Nik jangling a big string of various buits of clangy metal looped round his neck, decidedly odd, even more so than usual in fact, especially as Jim didn't seem to do much of the usual tweeting and instead went for weirder noises. Not as far-out as the studio version yet but still a good shot. ? Another All Stars number, and I found this one much more convincing, it had a definite Latin swing to it which made the album title seem slightly more relevant. Points to Trev for playing as if he knew the song backwards after a few bars working it out. Gas Money I may be wrong about where this was in the set-list; my notes were scribbled in the dark and I think I couldn't see this when I wrote the next one down, but anyway. I do remember Angie saying during the spoken exchange at the beginning (which was fluffed by Nik) how they really did need the gas money, it was no joke. It was a good version, but not surprisingly so, and I did think they could have made it more together on such a basic song, but though the bass was uncertain the rest was OK. Bucket Song I think I always expect too much of this; it was only all right. *Very* quick to do though :-) Fungus Among Us This was odd, as it's probably the closest to big band jazz in an ICU setlist save only `In the Nood' (which was not played unless my notes and memory have both erased it), but it didn't seem to go off very comfortably. Nik seemed very uncertain of the words and I think it was infectious. If it wasn't this number it was another, where Nik came in about a bar early with the third verse and Trev and Dave Anderson just looked at each other as if they'd been waiting for that to happen and fairly seamlessly bent the song back round the vocals without losing their grins in the process; that was the sort of thing that was making it all work. ? I don't know if this was an All Stars number or not, but the band was now joined by a tall slim Japanese girl bearing a treble saxophone, and she was fabulous; not just in a jazz virtuosity kind of way, though she could, and did quite literally, play with one arm behind her back, but also in actually having something to say with her instrument, which was the bit that made it clear how she and Nik had wound up playing together as it was a surprisingly brash and atonal (controlledly so but all the same) style for someone so apparently part of the `classy jazz' thing. I suspect me listening to more Monk would explain this a bit. She was good, anyway, and Nik wasn't bad, and I enjoyed this. Nik did give her full name once, but I didn't catch it, and Nik referred to her thereafter, as does Trev above, as Ola, so that's who she is from now on. D-Rider The stage was already full, but Nik signed to Ola not to leave as Mick Slattery came on to add more guitar (really hardly needed!), and this `D-Rider' became something quite mellow as a result, four jazz players and four punkspace-rockers trying to find something they could all do with a prog number; the saxophones worked quite well. Ola stopped playing after a while, which was a shame I thought. Good, all the same. And lastly: Master of the Universe Everyone on stage, including the original bass part obviously, and Trev's guitar perfect for it too, all the good points of the ICU and HW first versions together, plus two saxophonists (Nik managed to badger Ola into taking another solo between his two) and while the best version of this I ever saw will probably always be the second Hawkestra one with four bass players, whatever band Nik's doing it with always seem to deliver the goods. Left the crowd very cheerful when it finally stopped I think. So overall for a scrathc performance, it was very good. It would be nice if some day a Nik gig *wasn't* a scratch performance maybe, but I at least know what I'm expecting and am always pleasantly surprised. Trev was anxious as ever to assure us that not only had the band not rehearsed, but never actually played together before, and at one point he felt it necessary to apologise to the Camden faithful for the performance not being up to standard "because we've got some people from Hawkwind along this evening, you see, letting the side down", but actually it was surprisingly good. I guess I'm always surprised when a Nik gig comes together, though they don't generally seem to collapse horribly, but given the lack of rehearsal you know there will have been, and the rather variable attitude of some of the participants, it always seems intellectually much more likely that the whole thing will fall on its face like the Inner City Pompadours one did. The reason this one didn't, and I was more surprised by this than I should have been, was the ability of the musicians. Mr Everitt was a bit uncertain, and Ms Windmill should just STOP--PLEASE--but the drummer was, well, a jazz drummer, and well able to carry on with pretty much everything solidly and interestingly even if it was new to him. Dave Anderson always could play, but he was doing so well tonight, notes that didn't have to be there but it was nice to hear stuck in anyway, and most importantly he seemed to be having loads of fun even if he didn't know very many of the parts well. If only we weren't all sworn to kill him. But anyway. Jim Hawkman, I remember saying last time I saw him which was I think the lamentable ICP gig suddenly seems to have come into his own as synth player, and he stuck with that this night, lots of well-placed swoosh, I'd never hope to do any better than that myself. Nik, even, can actually play, though we do tend to forget this when he turns up for HW and just makes farting noises to piss off Dave. Perhaps the people he was playing with compelled him to wear a mental jazz hat and play as he actually can rather than messing about. Star prize, right from the start, however, must go to Judge Trev. I'm a sucker for his punk attack at the best of times, and one of the things about the few ICU reunion gigs I saw were that there really wasn't enough of it, the songs don't even have room, but here everything was being done so loose that he and Nik both got breaks in most of the songs and he played out like a trooper, made my ears very happy. Not just the raucous punk end of things either, there were the All Stars numbers in the setlist too, and Trev took about eight bars of each to get the shape of each and then joined in as if he'd been playing electric trad jazz all his life. Perhaps he has, but anyway, I was personally wowed not just by his actual playing but the way he fell into every different style they went through with no real bother and made his parts shine even though he was just making them up. I should have had this much respect for him as a player all along, perhaps, but I hadn't seen it before. Sherman and I keep passing Trev when I'm in Brighton; so far I've not mustered the courage to speak up and do the gushing fan bit, but if, Trev, you've noticed a six foot two woman with hair to halfway down her back and/or a smaller ponytailed bloke in shirt and jeans looking at you funny in Sainsbury's or wherever, I assure you it's fandom rather than thinking you look strange or whatever. Well, in my case it is, in Sherman's case it's that she's got her punk band covering `Skinheads in Leningrad' and doesn't know whether you'd approve or not. But anyway. Thanks for posting about that gig, I had a good time and I'd never have known otherwise, yours, Jon -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Apr 26 10:42:11 2004 From: judge48 at HOTMAIL.COM (trev) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:42:11 +0100 Subject: Real Festival Music - gig - Nik Turner's Space Unit Message-ID: Aw shucks John... It's wierd about people you know on the internet - when you meet them in the flesh. There are loads from boc and yahoo who i would like to put faces to. Pretty accurate review as well, i think. Trev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Jarrett" To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 1:09 PM Subject: NIK: Re: Real Festival Music - gig - Nik Turner's Space Unit > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, trev wrote: > > > NIK TURNER'S SPACE UNIT > > > > Will be performing at the Underworld > > http://www.theunderworldcamden.co.uk , Camden Town, London on Thursday > > the11th of March 1994, on stage at 10.30 approx, open til late. > > > > The participants in this "Spacerock Supergroup Frenzy" will include > > The Mighty Thunder Rider himself, Judge Trev, Commander Jim Hawkman, > > David Anderson, The Fabulous Angie, Jackie Windmill, Myreg, Ola, and > > introducing Gordy Everitt - new bass boy, and other "special guests" > > to be announced. > > > > The musicians will be careful to ensure that there are absolutely no > > rehearsals prior to the gig in order to recreate the original "vibe" > > of the great days of Acid Rock in old Camden Town - the heart of Inner > > City Unit's stomping ground. > > I didn't see anyone else I knew at this gig, which I only went to > on the fly, so I thought some kind of review of what the Other Half are up > to might be interesting while I'm unable to get to any of the current HW > gigs... > > I was teaching that evening, so I missed all but one number by the > support, Landmarq, and I didn't quite know what to make of them from > that; I didn't like it exactly, but more, I didn't even know what they > were. Some kind of twin-lead-vocals prog with one female singer was all I > really got out of it. They reminded me vaguely of a Cambridge band called > Skelliga who are also trying to be many things and on a good day get away > with it. Landmarq might get away with it more often, but really, I didn't > see enough to tell. > > It took me some while, even once our own Judge Trev had taken the > stage with a towel around his head shouting "death to the > infidel!" several times (that might even be as punk as you can currently > be I guess), to be sure what was going on with Nik's lot as > well. As we started, the line-up was, left to right: > > Gordy Everitt (second bass, young bloke, possibly from the All Stars?) > Dave Anderson (still with head attached, and playing bass) > Milo Griffiths (the All Stars drummer, playing drums here too) > The Mighty Thunder Rider, Nicholas Turner Esq. (sax, flute, vocals, weird > percussive things on a string) > Judge Trev (extremely loud guitar for the discerning) > Commander Jim Hawkman (synth, extra howling) > Jacqui Windmill (umimportant djembe, off-tone screeching) > > And mention must as ever be made of the fabulous Angie, who really > can dance, and who unfortunately had to deal with some idiot trying to paw > her for altogether too much of the set. > > The setlist was, as far as I knew it all: > > Watching the Grass Grow > > I scribbled some notes down but I can't read half of them; there > was a lot of Trev all over it, but it wasn't quite together, either the > bassists' fault or someone else's I wasn't sure, but it was a little > uncertain, until they all got to break when it just turned into an extreme > freakout and damned pleased I was to see it; If that was the shape of the > evening, I decided, that would do me fine; > > Solitary Astrid > > Good version, good enough, anyway, but took the wind out of the > band's sails rather I thought; > > Space Invaders > > Ragged, but still a lot of fun; and the freakout break was > everything you could have demanded (expect perhaps coherent); > > The Bones of Elvis > > Points for Trev here also, who a few seconds after the drum part > had started began shouting "NO, no no stop! It doesn't start like THAT! It > starts like THIS" and then stepped up to the microphone and gave us a > verse of his best Elvis impression before letting the band carry on. Nik > forgot some of the words (hey, it was going to happen at some point), > mostly the long list of ethnonyms at the end, but it was still good. It > always is, let's face it; > > ? > > All Stars number, and therefore interesting to see; everyone > played their bits, it was a jazz number and pleasant enough, good to see > Nik playing in time as if it was natural to him, but I was still waiting > to see what happened next rather; > > World of LSD > > I have to say, this one was a bit all over the place. I mean, I > suspect I'll never like a version of this I see live as much I like the LP > version because of the huge drums that has, but this was one where people > not knowing the song (especially either of the bass players) did tell. > > Skinheads in Leningrad > > I have now seen this live four times and this was the second best > version. Hurrah! Oddly, the best and worst versions I've seen have both > been ICU, same line-up even. But I do love the song. > > Remember (Margate Beach) > > I'm stupidly vulnerable to this song, but the backing vocals > weren't quite good enough to get the full Phil Spector tear-jerk effect. I > think everyone was having too good a time to make it as faux-tragic as it > could be. I still enjoyed it though. > > Little Black Egg > > Including Nik jangling a big string of various buits of clangy > metal looped round his neck, decidedly odd, even more so than usual in > fact, especially as Jim didn't seem to do much of the usual tweeting and > instead went for weirder noises. Not as far-out as the studio version yet > but still a good shot. > > ? > > Another All Stars number, and I found this one much more > convincing, it had a definite Latin swing to it which made the album title > seem slightly more relevant. Points to Trev for playing as if he knew the > song backwards after a few bars working it out. > > Gas Money > > I may be wrong about where this was in the set-list; my notes were > scribbled in the dark and I think I couldn't see this when I wrote the > next one down, but anyway. I do remember Angie saying during the spoken > exchange at the beginning (which was fluffed by Nik) how they really did > need the gas money, it was no joke. It was a good version, but not > surprisingly so, and I did think they could have made it more together on > such a basic song, but though the bass was uncertain the rest was OK. > > Bucket Song > > I think I always expect too much of this; it was only all > right. *Very* quick to do though :-) > > Fungus Among Us > > This was odd, as it's probably the closest to big band jazz in an > ICU setlist save only `In the Nood' (which was not played unless my notes > and memory have both erased it), but it didn't seem to go off very > comfortably. Nik seemed very uncertain of the words and I think it was > infectious. If it wasn't this number it was another, where Nik came in > about a bar early with the third verse and Trev and Dave Anderson just > looked at each other as if they'd been waiting for that to happen and > fairly seamlessly bent the song back round the vocals without losing their > grins in the process; that was the sort of thing that was making it all > work. > > ? > > I don't know if this was an All Stars number or not, but the band > was now joined by a tall slim Japanese girl bearing a treble saxophone, > and she was fabulous; not just in a jazz virtuosity kind of way, though > she could, and did quite literally, play with one arm behind her back, but > also in actually having something to say with her instrument, which was > the bit that made it clear how she and Nik had wound up playing together > as it was a surprisingly brash and atonal (controlledly so but all the > same) style for someone so apparently part of the `classy jazz' thing. I > suspect me listening to more Monk would explain this a bit. She was good, > anyway, and Nik wasn't bad, and I enjoyed this. Nik did give her full name > once, but I didn't catch it, and Nik referred to her thereafter, as does > Trev above, as Ola, so that's who she is from now on. > > D-Rider > > The stage was already full, but Nik signed to Ola not to leave as > Mick Slattery came on to add more guitar (really hardly needed!), and this > `D-Rider' became something quite mellow as a result, four jazz players and > four punkspace-rockers trying to find something they could all do with a > prog number; the saxophones worked quite well. Ola stopped playing after a > while, which was a shame I thought. Good, all the same. And lastly: > > Master of the Universe > > Everyone on stage, including the original bass part obviously, and > Trev's guitar perfect for it too, all the good points of the ICU and HW > first versions together, plus two saxophonists (Nik managed to badger Ola > into taking another solo between his two) and while the best version of > this I ever saw will probably always be the second Hawkestra one with > four bass players, whatever band Nik's doing it with always seem to > deliver the goods. Left the crowd very cheerful when it finally stopped I > think. > > So overall for a scrathc performance, it was very good. It > would be nice if some day a Nik gig *wasn't* a scratch performance > maybe, but I at least know what I'm expecting and am always pleasantly > surprised. Trev was anxious as ever to assure us that not only had the > band not rehearsed, but never actually played together before, and at one > point he felt it necessary to apologise to the Camden faithful for the > performance not being up to standard "because we've got some people from > Hawkwind along this evening, you see, letting the side down", but actually > it was surprisingly good. I guess I'm always surprised when a Nik gig > comes together, though they don't generally seem to collapse horribly, but > given the lack of rehearsal you know there will have been, and the rather > variable attitude of some of the participants, it always seems > intellectually much more likely that the whole thing will fall on its > face like the Inner City Pompadours one did. > > The reason this one didn't, and I was more surprised by this than > I should have been, was the ability of the musicians. Mr Everitt was a bit > uncertain, and Ms Windmill should just STOP--PLEASE--but the drummer was, > well, a jazz drummer, and well able to carry on with pretty much > everything solidly and interestingly even if it was new to him. Dave > Anderson always could play, but he was doing so well tonight, notes that > didn't have to be there but it was nice to hear stuck in anyway, and most > importantly he seemed to be having loads of fun even if he didn't know > very many of the parts well. If only we weren't all sworn to kill him. But > anyway. Jim Hawkman, I remember saying last time I saw him which was I > think the lamentable ICP gig suddenly seems to have come into his own as > synth player, and he stuck with that this night, lots of well-placed > swoosh, I'd never hope to do any better than that myself. Nik, even, can > actually play, though we do tend to forget this when he turns up for HW > and just makes farting noises to piss off Dave. Perhaps the people he was > playing with compelled him to wear a mental jazz hat and play as he > actually can rather than messing about. > > Star prize, right from the start, however, must go to Judge > Trev. I'm a sucker for his punk attack at the best of times, and one of > the things about the few ICU reunion gigs I saw were that there really > wasn't enough of it, the songs don't even have room, but here everything > was being done so loose that he and Nik both got breaks in most of the > songs and he played out like a trooper, made my ears very happy. Not just > the raucous punk end of things either, there were the All Stars numbers > in the setlist too, and Trev took about eight bars of each to get the > shape of each and then joined in as if he'd been playing electric trad > jazz all his life. Perhaps he has, but anyway, I was personally wowed not > just by his actual playing but the way he fell into every different style > they went through with no real bother and made his parts shine even though > he was just making them up. I should have had this much respect for him as > a player all along, perhaps, but I hadn't seen it before. > > Sherman and I keep passing Trev when I'm in Brighton; so far I've > not mustered the courage to speak up and do the gushing fan bit, but if, > Trev, you've noticed a six foot two woman with hair to halfway down her > back and/or a smaller ponytailed bloke in shirt and jeans looking at you > funny in Sainsbury's or wherever, I assure you it's fandom rather than > thinking you look strange or whatever. Well, in my case it is, in > Sherman's case it's that she's got her punk band covering `Skinheads in > Leningrad' and doesn't know whether you'd approve or not. But > anyway. Thanks for posting about that gig, I had a good time and I'd never > have known otherwise, yours, > Jon > > -- > Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London > jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk > "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, > So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." > (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) > From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Apr 26 12:04:51 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:04:51 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:12:11 +0100, M Holmes wrote: I said: >>you know how it goes- give-em-what they-want, keep-em-stupid, keep- >> em-docile... To clarify- though I thought it was obvious- this is what I take to be the attitude of many people who write for, edit and publish tabloid newspapers, not a comment on people who read them. Mike Holmes said: > >This crap always annoys me. My parents read the tabloids. people >reading tabloids are quite simply not so stupid that they can't see >through all the cant telling them how to vote. Telling them how to vote? We were talking about a *gossip columnist*, were we not?? Of course I don't imagine that everyone who reads the tabloids is stupid, any more than I imagine that everyone with a university education, say, is highly intelligent. I do however believe that the style and content of mass media in general is very much geared to reinforcing and maintaining a particular social and cultural climate. You yourself, if I've understood anything about you, are very keen on the idea that people do well to think for themselves and cultivate independence of mind and spirit- something with which I concur wholeheartedly. Do you feel that our mass media is geared to promoting those things? That their choice of how >to be entertained doesn't match our own choices does not make them >stupid. > >What I suspect is that people promulgating this excuse for a theory >really want us to think not that tabloid readers are stupid, but that >because they are not tabloid readers, and look down on them, they must >be incredibly clever. There are many aspects of society, and indeed aspects of human nature, including my own, which are not to my taste, but this is a very different thing from "looking down" on people. Without going into details I've spent my whole adult life trying to help people at the very bottom of the heap. The people I meet in my working life are generally those who are "looked down on" by society as a whole, and it is my belief that I always do my best to accord them respect and dignity. In fact, I seriously f***ing resent being told that I look down on people, particularly by someone who has never even met me. cordially Nick From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Mon Apr 26 12:39:24 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:39:24 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Nick Medford's message of Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:04:51 -0400 Message-ID: Nick Medford writes: > On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:12:11 +0100, M Holmes wrote: > > I said: > > >>you know how it goes- give-em-what they-want, keep-em-stupid, keep- > >> em-docile... > > To clarify- though I thought it was obvious- this is what I take to be the > attitude of many people who write for, edit and publish tabloid newspapers, > not a comment on people who read them. Sorry then. I seem to hear a lot of people talking with disdain about tabloid readers and their ignorance. Maybe I should quit drinking with political activists. > >This crap always annoys me. My parents read the tabloids. people > >reading tabloids are quite simply not so stupid that they can't see > >through all the cant telling them how to vote. > > Telling them how to vote? We were talking about a *gossip columnist*, were > we not?? "Who The Stars Are Voting For!" > Of course I don't imagine that everyone who reads the tabloids is stupid, > any more than I imagine that everyone with a university education, say, is > highly intelligent. I do however believe that the style and content of mass > media in general is very much geared to reinforcing and maintaining a > particular social and cultural climate. I reckon that's inevitable though. A tabloid newspaper is in essence a mixture of gossip and entertainment and in order to sell, or even be taken for free amongst those which get their revenue from advertising, will have to reflect the tastes and interests of their readership. A certain amount of cultural leading and even conciousness raising might occasionally be possible, but mostly people just want to be entertained. Newspapers are literall, disposable entertainment. Even amongst the broadsheet classes, most don't read newspapers because there's information they'll professionally require. They read items of interest to fill the time on the train or over lunch. Even the news items serve mainly as the thinking middle class form of gossip. They just natter about Osama rather than Becks. > You yourself, if I've understood anything about you, are very keen on > the idea that people do well to think for themselves and cultivate > independence of mind and spirit- something with which I concur > wholeheartedly. Do you feel that our mass media is geared to > promoting those things? Not any more than soccer does, or most other forms of entertainment, including Hawkwind. OK, we do get the occasional political rant from Trev Hughes, but even being kind, we'd have to concede that they're endearingly naive at best. It was also sweet of Alan/Ali to promote his new religious views, and I give him due respect for it. Overall though, we're there for the jollies. There may be some forms of art which aspire to stimulating thought in a serious way, though my own skepticism leads me to conclude that much is merely pretension. > >What I suspect is that people promulgating this excuse for a theory > >really want us to think not that tabloid readers are stupid, but that > >because they are not tabloid readers, and look down on them, they > >must be incredibly clever. > There are many aspects of society, and indeed aspects of human nature, > including my own, which are not to my taste, but this is a very > different thing from "looking down" on people. Without going into > details I've spent my whole adult life trying to help people at the > very bottom of the heap. The people I meet in my working life are > generally those who are "looked down on" by society as a whole, and it > is my belief that I always do my best to accord them respect and > dignity. In fact, I seriously f***ing resent being told that I look > down on people, particularly by someone who has never even met me. Indeed, I see that I've been too quick off the keyboard and I both withdraw and apologise. Mike From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Apr 26 12:45:27 2004 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:45:27 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:39:24 +0100, M Holmes wrote: >Indeed, I see that I've been too quick off the keyboard and I both >withdraw and apologise. Apology accepted, with no hard feelings. best wishes Nick From tclark at COX-INTERNET.COM Mon Apr 26 12:58:13 2004 From: tclark at COX-INTERNET.COM (Tom Clark) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:58:13 -0500 Subject: Real Festival Music - gig - Nik Turner's Space Unit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I'd be pretty easy to pick out...the red faced idiot who recently babbled drunkenly about T-shirts and other assorted ramblings. That is a nice t-shirt, by the way. I must've have been in a pissy mood that night because I didn't laid or something....therefore, my sincere apologies if I had offended anyone. Anyway, ctually, meeting some of the folks here pre-show at Hawkestra a few years ago was quite a treat. Not sure about the chances of an ICU visit to the States, but that would also be a treat! Back to lurking.......... -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of trev Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 9:42 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: Real Festival Music - gig - Nik Turner's Space Unit Aw shucks John... It's wierd about people you know on the internet - when you meet them in the flesh. There are loads from boc and yahoo who i would like to put faces to. Pretty accurate review as well, i think. Trev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Jarrett" To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 1:09 PM Subject: NIK: Re: Real Festival Music - gig - Nik Turner's Space Unit > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, trev wrote: > > > NIK TURNER'S SPACE UNIT > > > > Will be performing at the Underworld > > http://www.theunderworldcamden.co.uk , Camden Town, London on > > Thursday the11th of March 1994, on stage at 10.30 approx, open til > > late. > > > > The participants in this "Spacerock Supergroup Frenzy" will include > > The Mighty Thunder Rider himself, Judge Trev, Commander Jim Hawkman, > > David Anderson, The Fabulous Angie, Jackie Windmill, Myreg, Ola, and > > introducing Gordy Everitt - new bass boy, and other "special guests" > > to be announced. > > > > The musicians will be careful to ensure that there are absolutely no > > rehearsals prior to the gig in order to recreate the original "vibe" > > of the great days of Acid Rock in old Camden Town - the heart of > > Inner City Unit's stomping ground. > > I didn't see anyone else I knew at this gig, which I only went > to on the fly, so I thought some kind of review of what the Other Half > are up to might be interesting while I'm unable to get to any of the > current HW gigs... > > I was teaching that evening, so I missed all but one number by > the support, Landmarq, and I didn't quite know what to make of them > from that; I didn't like it exactly, but more, I didn't even know what > they were. Some kind of twin-lead-vocals prog with one female singer > was all I really got out of it. They reminded me vaguely of a > Cambridge band called Skelliga who are also trying to be many things > and on a good day get away with it. Landmarq might get away with it > more often, but really, I didn't see enough to tell. > > It took me some while, even once our own Judge Trev had taken > the stage with a towel around his head shouting "death to the > infidel!" several times (that might even be as punk as you can > currently be I guess), to be sure what was going on with Nik's lot as > well. As we started, the line-up was, left to right: > > Gordy Everitt (second bass, young bloke, possibly from the All Stars?) > Dave Anderson (still with head attached, and playing bass) Milo > Griffiths (the All Stars drummer, playing drums here too) The Mighty > Thunder Rider, Nicholas Turner Esq. (sax, flute, vocals, weird > percussive things on a string) > Judge Trev (extremely loud guitar for the discerning) Commander Jim > Hawkman (synth, extra howling) Jacqui Windmill (umimportant djembe, > off-tone screeching) > > And mention must as ever be made of the fabulous Angie, who > really can dance, and who unfortunately had to deal with some idiot > trying to paw her for altogether too much of the set. > > The setlist was, as far as I knew it all: > > Watching the Grass Grow > > I scribbled some notes down but I can't read half of them; > there was a lot of Trev all over it, but it wasn't quite together, > either the bassists' fault or someone else's I wasn't sure, but it was > a little uncertain, until they all got to break when it just turned > into an extreme freakout and damned pleased I was to see it; If that > was the shape of the evening, I decided, that would do me fine; > > Solitary Astrid > > Good version, good enough, anyway, but took the wind out of > the band's sails rather I thought; > > Space Invaders > > Ragged, but still a lot of fun; and the freakout break was > everything you could have demanded (expect perhaps coherent); > > The Bones of Elvis > > Points for Trev here also, who a few seconds after the drum > part had started began shouting "NO, no no stop! It doesn't start like > THAT! It starts like THIS" and then stepped up to the microphone and > gave us a verse of his best Elvis impression before letting the band > carry on. Nik forgot some of the words (hey, it was going to happen at > some point), mostly the long list of ethnonyms at the end, but it was > still good. It always is, let's face it; > > ? > > All Stars number, and therefore interesting to see; everyone > played their bits, it was a jazz number and pleasant enough, good to > see Nik playing in time as if it was natural to him, but I was still > waiting to see what happened next rather; > > World of LSD > > I have to say, this one was a bit all over the place. I mean, > I suspect I'll never like a version of this I see live as much I like > the LP version because of the huge drums that has, but this was one > where people not knowing the song (especially either of the bass > players) did tell. > > Skinheads in Leningrad > > I have now seen this live four times and this was the second > best version. Hurrah! Oddly, the best and worst versions I've seen > have both been ICU, same line-up even. But I do love the song. > > Remember (Margate Beach) > > I'm stupidly vulnerable to this song, but the backing vocals > weren't quite good enough to get the full Phil Spector tear-jerk > effect. I think everyone was having too good a time to make it as > faux-tragic as it could be. I still enjoyed it though. > > Little Black Egg > > Including Nik jangling a big string of various buits of clangy > metal looped round his neck, decidedly odd, even more so than usual in > fact, especially as Jim didn't seem to do much of the usual tweeting > and instead went for weirder noises. Not as far-out as the studio > version yet but still a good shot. > > ? > > Another All Stars number, and I found this one much more > convincing, it had a definite Latin swing to it which made the album > title seem slightly more relevant. Points to Trev for playing as if he > knew the song backwards after a few bars working it out. > > Gas Money > > I may be wrong about where this was in the set-list; my notes > were scribbled in the dark and I think I couldn't see this when I > wrote the next one down, but anyway. I do remember Angie saying during > the spoken exchange at the beginning (which was fluffed by Nik) how > they really did need the gas money, it was no joke. It was a good > version, but not surprisingly so, and I did think they could have made > it more together on such a basic song, but though the bass was > uncertain the rest was OK. > > Bucket Song > > I think I always expect too much of this; it was only all > right. *Very* quick to do though :-) > > Fungus Among Us > > This was odd, as it's probably the closest to big band jazz in > an ICU setlist save only `In the Nood' (which was not played unless my > notes and memory have both erased it), but it didn't seem to go off > very comfortably. Nik seemed very uncertain of the words and I think > it was infectious. If it wasn't this number it was another, where Nik > came in about a bar early with the third verse and Trev and Dave > Anderson just looked at each other as if they'd been waiting for that > to happen and fairly seamlessly bent the song back round the vocals > without losing their grins in the process; that was the sort of thing > that was making it all work. > > ? > > I don't know if this was an All Stars number or not, but the > band was now joined by a tall slim Japanese girl bearing a treble > saxophone, and she was fabulous; not just in a jazz virtuosity kind of > way, though she could, and did quite literally, play with one arm > behind her back, but also in actually having something to say with her > instrument, which was the bit that made it clear how she and Nik had > wound up playing together as it was a surprisingly brash and atonal > (controlledly so but all the > same) style for someone so apparently part of the `classy jazz' thing. I > suspect me listening to more Monk would explain this a bit. She was good, > anyway, and Nik wasn't bad, and I enjoyed this. Nik did give her full name > once, but I didn't catch it, and Nik referred to her thereafter, as does > Trev above, as Ola, so that's who she is from now on. > > D-Rider > > The stage was already full, but Nik signed to Ola not to leave > as Mick Slattery came on to add more guitar (really hardly needed!), > and this `D-Rider' became something quite mellow as a result, four > jazz players and four punkspace-rockers trying to find something they > could all do with a prog number; the saxophones worked quite well. Ola > stopped playing after a while, which was a shame I thought. Good, all > the same. And lastly: > > Master of the Universe > > Everyone on stage, including the original bass part obviously, > and Trev's guitar perfect for it too, all the good points of the ICU > and HW first versions together, plus two saxophonists (Nik managed to > badger Ola into taking another solo between his two) and while the > best version of this I ever saw will probably always be the second > Hawkestra one with four bass players, whatever band Nik's doing it > with always seem to deliver the goods. Left the crowd very cheerful > when it finally stopped I think. > > So overall for a scrathc performance, it was very good. It > would be nice if some day a Nik gig *wasn't* a scratch performance > maybe, but I at least know what I'm expecting and am always pleasantly > surprised. Trev was anxious as ever to assure us that not only had the > band not rehearsed, but never actually played together before, and at > one point he felt it necessary to apologise to the Camden faithful for > the performance not being up to standard "because we've got some > people from Hawkwind along this evening, you see, letting the side > down", but actually it was surprisingly good. I guess I'm always > surprised when a Nik gig comes together, though they don't generally > seem to collapse horribly, but given the lack of rehearsal you know > there will have been, and the rather variable attitude of some of the > participants, it always seems intellectually much more likely that the > whole thing will fall on its face like the Inner City Pompadours one > did. > > The reason this one didn't, and I was more surprised by this > than I should have been, was the ability of the musicians. Mr Everitt > was a bit uncertain, and Ms Windmill should just STOP--PLEASE--but the > drummer was, well, a jazz drummer, and well able to carry on with > pretty much everything solidly and interestingly even if it was new to > him. Dave Anderson always could play, but he was doing so well > tonight, notes that didn't have to be there but it was nice to hear > stuck in anyway, and most importantly he seemed to be having loads of > fun even if he didn't know very many of the parts well. If only we > weren't all sworn to kill him. But anyway. Jim Hawkman, I remember > saying last time I saw him which was I think the lamentable ICP gig > suddenly seems to have come into his own as synth player, and he stuck > with that this night, lots of well-placed swoosh, I'd never hope to do > any better than that myself. Nik, even, can actually play, though we > do tend to forget this when he turns up for HW and just makes farting > noises to piss off Dave. Perhaps the people he was playing with > compelled him to wear a mental jazz hat and play as he actually can > rather than messing about. > > Star prize, right from the start, however, must go to Judge > Trev. I'm a sucker for his punk attack at the best of times, and one > of the things about the few ICU reunion gigs I saw were that there > really wasn't enough of it, the songs don't even have room, but here > everything was being done so loose that he and Nik both got breaks in > most of the songs and he played out like a trooper, made my ears very > happy. Not just the raucous punk end of things either, there were the > All Stars numbers in the setlist too, and Trev took about eight bars > of each to get the shape of each and then joined in as if he'd been > playing electric trad jazz all his life. Perhaps he has, but anyway, I > was personally wowed not just by his actual playing but the way he > fell into every different style they went through with no real bother > and made his parts shine even though he was just making them up. I > should have had this much respect for him as a player all along, > perhaps, but I hadn't seen it before. > > Sherman and I keep passing Trev when I'm in Brighton; so far > I've not mustered the courage to speak up and do the gushing fan bit, > but if, Trev, you've noticed a six foot two woman with hair to halfway > down her back and/or a smaller ponytailed bloke in shirt and jeans > looking at you funny in Sainsbury's or wherever, I assure you it's > fandom rather than thinking you look strange or whatever. Well, in my > case it is, in Sherman's case it's that she's got her punk band > covering `Skinheads in Leningrad' and doesn't know whether you'd > approve or not. But anyway. Thanks for posting about that gig, I had a > good time and I'd never have known otherwise, yours, > Jon > > -- > Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London > jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk > "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, > So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." > (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) > From m.j.crook at TALK21.COM Mon Apr 26 15:16:20 2004 From: m.j.crook at TALK21.COM (Mick Crook) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:16:20 -0400 Subject: HW: Glasgow 22nd April and Aberdeen 23rd April Message-ID: Jill Wrote - >The only track I didn't quite come to terms with was the new techno/industrial one "Trip?" probably because I couldn't make out the words spoken by the ?vocoder? - I'm sure I remember Dave introducing it as "Ode to a Timeflower" and indeed it could have been Calvert's poem enunciated by computer (or, then again, I could just be imagining it - it was that sort of an evening!). This was played last night at Manchester - both Dave and Alan commented on it before the track started - apparently it was a tape of Bob Calvert reading the poem - with some sort effect on the voice. Mick -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com From erics at TELEPRES.COM Mon Apr 26 16:25:59 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:25:59 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404261112.i3QBCBSn024332@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>; from fofp@HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK on Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 12:12:11PM +0100 Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 12:12:11PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: > people > reading tabloids are quite simply not so stupid that they can't see > through all the cant telling them how to vote. I'd be interested in your reaction to this poll: http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Press.pdf Different medium (TV); different country (USA); same issue. The poll examined the frequency with which its subjects hold three specific misperceptions about the Iraq situation, and found that 80% of people whose primary news source is Fox TV hold at least one of the misperceptions -- dramatically more than do people whose news comes from NPR/PBS (public radio/television; 23%), print media (47%), or CNN (55%). In other words, in practice, Fox watchers *don't* "see through the cant" -- or at least, see through it much less successfully than do people who get their news from better sources. Whether that's due to Fox watchers' stupidity, or merely to their being successfully propagandized, the end result is the same. The above URL is for the executive summary of the poll's results. These two documents contain more detail: http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Questionnaire.pdf -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Mon Apr 26 16:36:21 2004 From: deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (deadearnest) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:36:21 +0100 Subject: Glasgow 22nd April and Aberdeen 23rd April Message-ID: Tend to agree with Jill's review - I lamented the lack of real synths and would have liked more searing lead guitar solos, but - hey - you can't be picky. Good stuff, if not exactly incendiary. Wolverhampton should be interesting-look forward to that one. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jill Strobridge To: Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:19 PM Subject: HW: Glasgow 22nd April and Aberdeen 23rd April > atmosphere and Hawkwind were - fantastic. The set seemed to start a bit > lightweight - Angela Android is a strong, fast, vocal track but without > great depths of instrumentation underlying it and the drumming seemed > surprisingly loud and brash but after that the tracks just got stronger > and stronger. "Quality" I heard someone say behind me when the band > paused for breath after Where Are They Now - "that's real quality". And > it just got better. The Chaos light show was in full flow - brilliantly > colourful abstract sequences (my favourite were the spiked circles with > a multicoloured spiral infilling) with some images - the fighter shots > in The Right Stuff were spectacular. The band were playing really well > together - and the mixing was so good that I didn't, at all, feel that > another instrument was needed. Between them they managed to create all > the layers and depth and quality of sound necessary. They finished the > set with Assassins of Allah (rather than Ejection) which was an > excellent decision because everyone was still bouncing around and on a > high and then came back for a two-track encore starting with Brainbox > Pollution before sliding into Brainstorm. Very satisfactory. > > The only track I didn't quite come to terms with was the new > techno/industrial one "Trip?" probably because I couldn't make out the > words spoken by the ?vocoder? - I'm sure I remember Dave introducing it > as "Ode to a Timeflower" and indeed it could have been Calvert's poem > enunciated by computer (or, then again, I could just be imagining it - > it was that sort of an evening!). > > And now I'm wondering about Wolverhampton. > jill > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Jill Strobridge > ----------------------------------------------------------------- From mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK Mon Apr 26 16:44:01 2004 From: mark.von-bargen at O2.CO.UK (mark von bargen) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:44:01 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404261639.i3QGdO69013672@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mike Holmes and nick Medford wrote: > Of course I don't imagine that everyone who reads the tabloids is stupid, > any more than I imagine that everyone with a university education, say, is > highly intelligent. I do however believe that the style and content of mass > media in general is very much geared to reinforcing and maintaining a > particular social and cultural climate. I reckon that's inevitable though. A tabloid newspaper is in essence a mixture of gossip and entertainment and in order to sell, or even be taken for free amongst those which get their revenue from advertising, will have to reflect the tastes and interests of their readership. A certain amount of cultural leading and even conciousness raising might occasionally be possible, but mostly people just want to be entertained. Newspapers are literall, disposable entertainment. And then, sometimes, they just print outrageous lies because they think that they can get away with it. Like the sun did about 15 years and one week ago. Mark From ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET Mon Apr 26 18:56:36 2004 From: ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET (Tim) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:56:36 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts Message-ID: My 2 Cents Worth (in 1971 dollars) Vote freely and often! tim 8>)... mark von bargen wrote: > > Mike Holmes and nick Medford wrote: > > Of course I don't imagine that everyone who reads the tabloids is stupid, > > any more than I imagine that everyone with a university education, say, is > > highly intelligent. I do however believe that the style and content of > mass > > media in general is very much geared to reinforcing and maintaining a > > particular social and cultural climate. > > I reckon that's inevitable though. A tabloid newspaper is in essence a > mixture of gossip and entertainment and in order to sell, or even be > taken for free amongst those which get their revenue from advertising, > will have to reflect the tastes and interests of their readership. A > certain amount of cultural leading and even conciousness raising might > occasionally be possible, but mostly people just want to be entertained. > Newspapers are literall, disposable entertainment. > > And then, sometimes, they just print outrageous lies because they think that > they can get away with it. Like the sun did about 15 years and one week ago. > > Mark From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 27 06:14:13 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:14:13 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Eric Siegerman's message of Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:25:59 -0400 Message-ID: Eric Siegerman writes: > On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 12:12:11PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: > > people > > reading tabloids are quite simply not so stupid that they can't see > > through all the cant telling them how to vote. > > I'd be interested in your reaction to this poll: > http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Press.pdf > > Different medium (TV); different country (USA); same issue. The > poll examined the frequency with which its subjects hold three > specific misperceptions about the Iraq situation, and found that > 80% of people whose primary news source is Fox TV hold at least > one of the misperceptions -- dramatically more than do people > whose news comes from NPR/PBS (public radio/television; 23%), > print media (47%), or CNN (55%). > > In other words, in practice, Fox watchers *don't* "see through > the cant" Note the "...telling them how to vote" part of my statement. People can spot when they're being told how to vote because they know that some newspapers have an axe to grind on that score. On the other hand, most people aren't very knowledgeable on foreign policy, and in the US certainly, there's a famous lack of knowledge on many people's part regarding history and geography of places outside of the US. Add in a general lack of interest in Iraq outside of "will these foreign wallahs bomb my local garden centre?" and pretty much anyone who wants to "inform" them could very easily bias their viewpoint. I bet I could find three misperceptions of Scotland out of any given demographic of yanks if I were given the research budget. For example in a recent poll it seems that one third of Americans believe there's a haggis hunting season here. This is of course untrue: we're allowed to take haggis at any time of the year. They're a bugger to catch outside of mating season though. Thanks for posting those interesting links. FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 27 06:19:45 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:19:45 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: mark von bargen's message of Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:44:01 +0100 Message-ID: mark von bargen writes: [The comics...] > And then, sometimes, they just print outrageous lies because they > think that they can get away with it. Like the sun did about 15 years > and one week ago. Ooooh. A puzzle! Hmmmm, mid-April 1989.... Seems too early for the Fall of Thatcher and certainly too early for the Pound being Ejected... Poll Tax Riots? FoFP From neil.shilladay at MICROLISE.COM Tue Apr 27 06:26:17 2004 From: neil.shilladay at MICROLISE.COM (Neil Shilladay) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:26:17 +0100 Subject: OFF:15 years ago (was Tour Shirts) Message-ID: Hillsborough tragedy Neil. (student in Liverpool at the time) M Holmes cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List 27/04/2004 11:19 Please respond to BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List mark von bargen writes: [The comics...] > And then, sometimes, they just print outrageous lies because they > think that they can get away with it. Like the sun did about 15 years > and one week ago. Ooooh. A puzzle! Hmmmm, mid-April 1989.... Seems too early for the Fall of Thatcher and certainly too early for the Pound being Ejected... Poll Tax Riots? FoFP From iainferguson at AOL.COM Tue Apr 27 06:33:28 2004 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:33:28 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404271014.i3RAED7h012491@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mike, And you have just added another mis-preconception that all scots can can take haggis anytime. This is only applicable to scots that actually live in the homeland, us that have moved south have lost that right , though the appeal is hoped to go through scottish parliament this October... regards Iain Ferguson > a recent poll it seems that one third of Americans believe there's a > haggis hunting season here. > > This is of course untrue: we're allowed to take haggis at any time of > the year. They're a bugger to catch outside of mating season though. > > Thanks for posting those interesting links. > > FoFP > From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 27 07:57:52 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:57:52 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Iain Ferguson's message of Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:33:28 +0100 Message-ID: Iain Ferguson writes: > Mike, > > And you have just added another mis-preconception that all scots can > can take haggis anytime. This is only applicable to scots that actually > live in the homeland, us that have moved south have lost that right , > though the appeal is hoped to go through scottish parliament this > October... It's not before time. My friends in the Borders tell me that cross-border Reiving for haggis is totally out of control in Dumfrieshire. Seems illegal immigrants are crossing the Solway on moonlit nights and taking so many haggii for smuggling back to England that the Borders Haggis may be on the endangered list within a decade. There have been some experiments with haggis farming in England but they just don't survive without natural heather to eat. FoFP From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Tue Apr 27 08:06:09 2004 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:06:09 -0400 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404271014.i3RAED7h012491@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 11:14:13AM +0100, M Holmes wrote: => Note the "...telling them how to vote" part of my statement. People can => spot when they're being told how to vote because they know that some => newspapers have an axe to grind on that score. On the other hand, most => people aren't very knowledgeable on foreign policy, and in the US => certainly, there's a famous lack of knowledge on many people's part => regarding history and geography of places outside of the US. Add in a => general lack of interest in Iraq outside of "will these foreign wallahs => bomb my local garden centre?" and pretty much anyone who wants to => "inform" them could very easily bias their viewpoint. Wow, that's a lot of sweeping statements for just one paragraph. :-) But, given that you appear to be saying that media (tabloids, etc.) *can* bias people's viewpoints, don't you think that a biased viewpoint could bias voting, also? In other words, that they can subtly tell people for whom to vote? I happen to think that a lot of people (the majority, actually) are pretty entrenched in their voting habits, and will seek out media that reinforces those beliefs. So, I don't think the aforementioned bias will have much of an effect in actually causing a change of vote in that bloc. But, there are, I hear tell, a group of all-important "swing voters" (the "undecideds") that can be influenced to "vote for the other person this time around." In a close election, those people hold the key to victory. If those people can be "informed" such that a particular editorial favourite is cast in a certain positive light, it may tip the scales just enough. BTW, I also happen to think that it's not so easy to discern that you're being "told how to vote." (I think of this as "marketing science at work.") Even those who consider themselves sophisticated enough to realise they are being manipulated face an uphill struggle in sorting fact from fiction, and a fiction be be all that's needed to sway someone. ("Remember the Maine!") Most individuals lack the resources and breadth of knowledge in all areas to be able to ascertain categorically whether or not they're being lied to. One way to combat it is to consult a breadth of sources and hope some kind of inconsistency will emerge to create doubt and pause for thought. Unfortunately, with concentration of media ownership into fewer editorial hands, that is becoming harder to do when it comes to mass media. "Issue ads" are the big thing now (to avoid fund-raising limitations). They're telling people how to vote. They're just not naming names explicitly. Sometimes the agenda is easy to spot; sometimes not so. My biggest beef against tabloids is that many people still hold the subliminal quaint notion they are newspapers, and so may put some stock in what they print (despite the poor reporting and many past instances of demonstrated lying). As you and others have pointed out, they are more about entertainment. Hopefully, one day they'll be seen as such on an emotional as well as an intellectual level. Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From jswartz at MITRE.ORG Tue Apr 27 08:49:14 2004 From: jswartz at MITRE.ORG (John Swartz) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:49:14 -0400 Subject: BRAIN, BOC: Cool News Message-ID: Very cool to see Ross the Boss added to tBS line-up. No knock on the current guitar players in the group (I guess that would be Deb, David, AND Albert), but I always preferred that "wall of guitar" sound that was on *Trepanation* and *Box of Hammers*, when Billy (RIP) and Peter (what's HE doing these days?) were in the band. Hope you guys will be back in Boston soon, John From iainferguson at AOL.COM Tue Apr 27 09:21:50 2004 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:21:50 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404271157.i3RBvqFM020125@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: That really worries me, It also lends credence to the rumours that the 2 for 1 offer of Haggis down in the south is due to Gang Masters becoming greedy. having procured illegal nets from the decimated fishing fleets of Ulapool & Arbroath... BTW from what you say, I don't suppose the English Haggis takes much good then ? Regards iain M Holmes wrote: > Iain Ferguson writes: > > > Mike, > > > > And you have just added another mis-preconception that all scots can > > can take haggis anytime. This is only applicable to scots that actually > > live in the homeland, us that have moved south have lost that right , > > though the appeal is hoped to go through scottish parliament this > > October... > > It's not before time. My friends in the Borders tell me that > cross-border Reiving for haggis is totally out of control in > Dumfrieshire. Seems illegal immigrants are crossing the Solway on > moonlit nights and taking so many haggii for smuggling back to England > that the Borders Haggis may be on the endangered list within a > decade. > > There have been some experiments with haggis farming in England but they > just don't survive without natural heather to eat. > > FoFP > From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 27 09:35:38 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:35:38 +0100 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Iain Ferguson's message of Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:21:50 +0100 Message-ID: Iain Ferguson writes: > That really worries me, > > It also lends credence to the rumours that the 2 for 1 offer of Haggis > down in the south is due to Gang Masters becoming greedy. having > procured illegal nets from the decimated fishing fleets of Ulapool & > Arbroath... I could tell you some gruesome stories abpout people hunting haggis with flashbangs and nets. It's not sport. It's genocide. > BTW from what you say, I don't suppose the English Haggis tastes much > good then ? It's completely bland. The sassenachs should stick to raising Black Puddings. FoFP From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Apr 27 09:59:35 2004 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Chris Allen) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:59:35 +0100 Subject: OFF:15 years ago (was Tour Shirts) Message-ID: So what were the outrageous lies? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Shilladay" > Hillsborough tragedy > > Neil. > (student in Liverpool at the time) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.669 / Virus Database: 431 - Release Date: 26/04/2004 From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 27 10:05:05 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:05:05 +0100 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Paul Mather's message of Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:06:09 -0400 Message-ID: Paul Mather writes: > Wow, that's a lot of sweeping statements for just one paragraph. :-) Not bad eh? > But, given that you appear to be saying that media (tabloids, etc.) > *can* bias people's viewpoints, don't you think that a biased > viewpoint could bias voting, also? If someone were utterly unaware of it yes. How easy is that during an election? > In other words, that they can > subtly tell people for whom to vote? Subtly? The British tabloids wouldn't know subtly if it bit them on the tits. > I happen to think that a lot of people (the majority, actually) are > pretty entrenched in their voting habits, and will seek out media that > reinforces those beliefs. Agreed. > So, I don't think the aforementioned bias will have much of an effect > in actually causing a change of vote in that bloc. But, there are, I > hear tell, a group of all-important "swing voters" (the "undecideds") > that can be influenced to "vote for the other person this time > around." In a close election, those people hold the key to victory. More specifically the floating voters in marginal seats. > If those people can be "informed" such that a particular editorial > favourite is cast in a certain positive light, it may tip the scales > just enough. I believe there's some evidence that the floating voters tend to try to inform themselves a little better than the average voter, which might provide some antidote to such behaviour. Also, surely in that the political parties go all out to influence the vote without any attempt at subtlety at all, how mcuh effect at the margin would the tabloids really have during an election? I'm prepared to concede there's some minor effect, but not that would swing a normal election. Then there's the question of whether the different tabloids would simply cancel each other out. > BTW, I also happen to think that it's not so easy to discern that > you're being "told how to vote." (I think of this as "marketing > science at work.") Even those who consider themselves sophisticated > enough to realise they are being manipulated face an uphill struggle > in sorting fact from fiction, and a fiction be be all that's needed to > sway someone. ("Remember the Maine!") Most individuals lack the > resources and breadth of knowledge in all areas to be able to > ascertain categorically whether or not they're being lied to. Sure, but most of the time we don't need to. There's a good economic argument that an election is just such a time: In Britain, the difference between what the two parties propose as state spending is around 2% of GDP. That's about 20 billion quid. Call it 40 million adults in the UK and that's 500 quid per year each. Let's be generous and say that the state is 40% less efficient at using cash than private industry in terms of spending on what the individual actually wants and we get a total cost per annum of getting the vote wrong of 200 quid. They have a 50% chance of just guessing the best way to vote and so game-theoretically we can halve that cost to 100 quid, or 2 quid per week. Call the average wage about 20K, and that means that anyone who spends more than 5 hours in a year, or 6 minutes per week, even thinking about how to vote has pretty much wasted their time. Even at minimum wage you'd only just over double it to say 15 minutes per week, which is less than most people will spend reading a newspaper anyway. In short: not only does voting only encourage them, if you read a newspaper at all, you've spent too much time on it. Of course specific small groups of people can come out of an election rather better than the average. Politicians effectively make their money as fairground shysters: take ten quid from a dozen people and announce the lucky winner of 60 quid. The other 11 will hope they win next time. If another shyster is selling How To Win leaflets, then quibbling with their source of income is Missing The Point Gold Medal territory. > "Issue ads" are the big thing now (to avoid fund-raising limitations). In the US? McCain-Feingold reasons? > They're telling people how to vote. They're just not naming names > explicitly. Sometimes the agenda is easy to spot; sometimes not so. If I were there, I might well want to know who's been trying to cramp the First and Second amendments and these could produce useful information. > My biggest beef against tabloids is that many people still hold the > subliminal quaint notion they are newspapers, and so may put some > stock in what they print (despite the poor reporting and many past > instances of demonstrated lying). As you and others have pointed out, > they are more about entertainment. Hopefully, one day they'll be seen > as such on an emotional as well as an intellectual level. Well, if you want to encourage skepticism, you're preaching to the choir on that one! Cheers Mike From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Tue Apr 27 10:36:00 2004 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Bolts of Ungodly Vision) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:36:00 -0400 Subject: BRAIN, BOC: Cool News In-Reply-To: <408E56CA.4010207@mitre.org> Message-ID: I heard "Find Something Beautiful", performed by the Master Plan, two times on Little Steven's Underground Garage, and Roter is always given a name-check mention. Dictators rock. Jason -- Quoting John Swartz : > Very cool to see Ross the Boss added to tBS line-up. No knock on the > current guitar players in the group (I guess that would be Deb, David, > AND Albert), but I always preferred that "wall of guitar" sound that was > on *Trepanation* and *Box of Hammers*, when Billy (RIP) and Peter > (what's HE doing these days?) were in the band. > > Hope you guys will be back in Boston soon, > > John > From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Tue Apr 27 10:54:09 2004 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:54:09 -0400 Subject: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404271014.i3RAED7h012491@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: ROFL Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. (a yank) http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of M Holmes Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 6:14 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: HW: Tour Shirts (snip) This is of course untrue: we're allowed to take haggis at any time of the year. They're a bugger to catch outside of mating season though. Thanks for posting those interesting links. FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 27 11:56:33 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:56:33 +0100 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: M Holmes's message of Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:05:05 +0100 Message-ID: Woops, slight miscalculation in numbers and this should read: M Holmes writes: > Paul: > >Most individuals lack the > > resources and breadth of knowledge in all areas to be able to > > ascertain categorically whether or not they're being lied to. Sure, but most of the time we don't need to. There's a good economic argument that an election is just such a time: In Britain, the difference between what the two parties propose as state spending is around 2% of GDP. That's about 20 billion quid. Call it 40 million adults in the UK and that's 500 quid per year each. Let's be generous and say that the state is 40% less efficient at using cash than private industry in terms of spending on what the individual actually wants and we get a total cost per annum of getting the vote wrong of 200 quid. They have a 50% chance of just guessing the best way to vote and so game-theoretically we can halve that cost to 100 quid, or 2 quid per week. Call the average wage about 20K, or 400 Pounds per week, and that means that anyone who spends more than 10 hours in a year, or 12 minutes per week, even thinking about how to vote has pretty much wasted their time. Even at minimum wage you'd only just over double it to say half an hour per week, which is less than most people will spend reading a newspaper anyway. FoFP From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Tue Apr 27 13:39:22 2004 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:39:22 -0400 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404271556.i3RFuXTa020127@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 04:56:33PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: => Woops, slight miscalculation in numbers and this should read: => => M Holmes writes: => => > Paul: => => > >Most individuals lack the => > > resources and breadth of knowledge in all areas to be able to => > > ascertain categorically whether or not they're being lied to. => => Sure, but most of the time we don't need to. There's a good economic => argument that an election is just such a time: In Britain, the => difference between what the two parties propose as state spending is => around 2% of GDP. That's about 20 billion quid. Call it 40 million => adults in the UK and that's 500 quid per year each. Let's be generous => and say that the state is 40% less efficient at using cash than private => industry in terms of spending on what the individual actually wants and => we get a total cost per annum of getting the vote wrong of 200 quid. That seems to imply that people are only interested in or affected by economic policy. I don't buy that. :-) Even were it true, the percentage of GDP could be allocated very differently depending upon the party. For example, Party A could pour lots of money into the military, prisons, and border patrols because they wanted to appear "tough on law and order and weapons of mass destruction." Party B, on the other hand, might sink lots of money into hospitals and schools. The net effect of that spending may differ dramatically in terms of personal impact (especially if you're trying to afford prescriptions and medical treatment). Besides that, not many people spend their money building nuclear weapons, so the fact that they could have done it 40% more efficiently than the government is cold comfort. The above also does not appear to factor in the impact of social policy and potential legislation that may be introduced by Party A or Party B in terms of personal freedoms; reinstating national service; banning abortion; etc. How many quid does that work out as per annum? => They have a 50% chance of just guessing the best way to vote and so => game-theoretically we can halve that cost to 100 quid, or 2 quid per => week. => => Call the average wage about 20K, or 400 Pounds per week, and that means => that anyone who spends more than 10 hours in a year, or 12 minutes per => week, even thinking about how to vote has pretty much wasted their time. => Even at minimum wage you'd only just over double it to say half an hour => per week, which is less than most people will spend reading a newspaper => anyway. Even sticking purely in an economic vein, how does this amortise the future cost of disastrous policies? Say, for example, a leader is voted in whose economic policies drive up the national deficit to record levels such that ones own offspring will be hard pressed to pay it down. How does your short-term game-theoretic gamble account for sustained future well-being? Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Tue Apr 27 14:18:32 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:18:32 +0100 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Paul Mather's message of Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:39:22 -0400 Message-ID: Paul Mather writes: > => Sure, but most of the time we don't need to. There's a good economic > => argument that an election is just such a time: In Britain, the > => difference between what the two parties propose as state spending is > => around 2% of GDP. That's about 20 billion quid. Call it 40 million > => adults in the UK and that's 500 quid per year each. Let's be generous > => and say that the state is 40% less efficient at using cash than private > => industry in terms of spending on what the individual actually wants and > => we get a total cost per annum of getting the vote wrong of 200 quid. > > That seems to imply that people are only interested in or affected by > economic policy. I don't buy that. :-) I wouldn't expect you to. Nevertheless, since that's all the difference between the major parties, that's all there is for the average person to gain, however much they might hope otherwise. The only clear exceptions are external policies which affect the overall level of GDP, for example wars, or more than usually profitable trading arrangements with other nations. Hopefuly we can agree that war destroys wealth overall and short of merely being the weapons supplier to someone else's war, we aren't going to be getting richer quickly by that route. There's anyway scant difference between the military policies of the two major parties. That leaves foreign trade. The only real difference here is that one party is keener on Europe than the other. Inasmuch as the European economy is sclerotic at best and is likely to remain so in the medium term (because things still aren't bad enough to persuade Germany and France to make necessary changes) and the longer term (because the demographic curve runs against mainland economies and we're already reaching the limits of tolerance for immigration). Of course people do value non-eceonomic policies such as who's going to ban them from watching what as opposed to who's going to ban them from saying what or owning what. Again the two major parties differ more in what they'll ban than whether. Authoritarianism is the flavour of the era, and this time we don't even get smart uniforms. > Even were it true, the > percentage of GDP could be allocated very differently depending upon > the party. Since we're talking about *average* distribution, that doesn't really matter. I've already conceded that in the fairground shyster game that is politics, some people can win any given round, but unless wealth is created, they can only do this at someone else's loss. > For example, Party A could pour lots of money into the > military, prisons, and border patrols because they wanted to appear > "tough on law and order and weapons of mass destruction." Party B, on > the other hand, might sink lots of money into hospitals and schools. > The net effect of that spending may differ dramatically in terms of > personal impact (especially if you're trying to afford prescriptions > and medical treatment). Indeed, but my point is that nobody is proposing any large scale canges here (nobody who can win anyway) and even then, the gain of the doctor r patient is paid by the loss of the family of the soldier. > Besides that, not many people spend their > money building nuclear weapons, so the fact that they could have done > it 40% more efficiently than the government is cold comfort. Indeed, and neither party is proposing to legalise even handguns, never mind nuclear weapons. More likely we'll see knives banned on the basis that only those comporting with terrorists won't be happy to see their food arrive pre-chopped into bite-sized chunks by the governent. > The above also does not appear to factor in the impact of social > policy and potential legislation that may be introduced by Party A or > Party B in terms of personal freedoms; reinstating national service; > banning abortion; etc. How many quid does that work out as per annum? It varies between individuals and can only be discovered by selling such services in a free market. Again, the point is that while it's nice to imagine a more consumer-friendly fairground shyster showering us in nice things, their aren't any to vote for, and even were there, they couldn't win. Worse, even if there were, and they could, they'd still be limited to showering us at best in pecisely the amount of goods to match the price of the tickets we bought. Since they don't bring any of their own money to the raffle, the very maximum we can win on average is what we put in, and effectively the only way to win that much is to quit the game. > => They have a 50% chance of just guessing the best way to vote and so > => game-theoretically we can halve that cost to 100 quid, or 2 quid per > => week. > => > => Call the average wage about 20K, or 400 Pounds per week, and that means > => that anyone who spends more than 10 hours in a year, or 12 minutes per > => week, even thinking about how to vote has pretty much wasted their time. > => Even at minimum wage you'd only just over double it to say half an hour > => per week, which is less than most people will spend reading a newspaper > => anyway. > > Even sticking purely in an economic vein, how does this amortise the > future cost of disastrous policies? Say, for example, a leader is > voted in whose economic policies drive up the national deficit to > record levels such that ones own offspring will be hard pressed to pay > it down. How does your short-term game-theoretic gamble account for > sustained future well-being? Admittedly staying in the game might well result in the losses of all tickets sold, or anything up to that. However we can hopefully accord that at most times at least, a smallish probability (though of course I subscribe to the view that there's currently a probability of financial disaster of over 90%). However, for the individual voter spotting such a scenario, it'd probably pay better to take steps for the ersonal avoidance of disaster than hope to avert it on a societal scale by voting or even persuading others. The problem again is that there's no substantial difference in what's being offered by the two competing shysters. (For the scenario I see, it's already too late anyway, and it's merely a question of who'd do least damage in the aftermath). Personally I just go in and write "None of the Above" because I feel better having let at least the election agents know of my disdain for the entire game. FoFP From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Tue Apr 27 14:19:51 2004 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:19:51 +0100 Subject: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness In-Reply-To: <20040302152911.GB38134@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Paul Mather wrote: > Now that vinyl is a niche market, and pretty much a collector's > medium, the new vinyl releases tend to be very well pressed, often > using virgin vinyl. I've not had the benefit of hearing any (my > turntable is many, many miles away), but I'd imagine such audiophile > pressings would sound superb. I've got a couple of decent pressings (the Gates of Dawn releases of Steven Wilson stuff most rapidly spring to mind) and they are rather gorgeous, both in sound and as artefacts. I can tell I'm listening to vinyl, partly because my stereo's turntable has a silly low output and has to be turned up, so more line noise; but the vinyl surface noise I get off something like my old Flicknife _Zones_ is fabulously absent. I'm curious as to this idea of recycled vinyl; what was it being recycled from? Not old records surely! Oh, and while I'm on the subject, does anyone know if such things as one-channel pre-amps are available which might solve my turntable problem? Yours all, Jon ObCD-R: Mr Quimby's Beard - _Live in Milwaukee 19th October 2001_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK Tue Apr 27 14:59:15 2004 From: paul at IMRRYR.KAROO.CO.UK (pauleatonjones) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:59:15 +0100 Subject: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I seem to remember reading an article in Melody Maker/Sounds in the mid '80's that record companies were indeed re-cycling old records and this accounted for the terrible crackles, hisses jumps etc. I had to take Nik Turner's Sphynx 'Xitintoday' l.p. back 6 times before I had a playable copy. And that was as early as 1978. Deke Leonard's 'Iceberg' 4 times before I gave it up as a bad job. The list was almost endless and got worse in the years immediately preceding the c.d. revolution. Hurrah for that. Paul. On Tuesday, Apr 27, 2004, at 19:19 Europe/London, Jon Jarrett wrote: > On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Paul Mather wrote: > >> Now that vinyl is a niche market, and pretty much a collector's >> medium, the new vinyl releases tend to be very well pressed, often >> using virgin vinyl. I've not had the benefit of hearing any (my >> turntable is many, many miles away), but I'd imagine such audiophile >> pressings would sound superb. > > I've got a couple of decent pressings (the Gates of Dawn > releases > of Steven Wilson stuff most rapidly spring to mind) and they are rather > gorgeous, both in sound and as artefacts. I can tell I'm listening to > vinyl, partly because my stereo's turntable has a silly low output and > has to be turned up, so more line noise; but the vinyl surface noise I > get > off something like my old Flicknife _Zones_ is fabulously absent. > > I'm curious as to this idea of recycled vinyl; what was it > being > recycled from? Not old records surely! > > Oh, and while I'm on the subject, does anyone know if such > things > as one-channel pre-amps are available which might solve my turntable > problem? Yours all, > Jon > > ObCD-R: Mr Quimby's Beard - _Live in Milwaukee 19th October 2001_ > -- > Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London > jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk > "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, > So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." > (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) > From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Tue Apr 27 16:06:45 2004 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:06:45 -0400 Subject: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I believe that if you google for pre-amps you can find what you are looking for Jon Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Jon Jarrett Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:20 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Paul Mather wrote: > Now that vinyl is a niche market, and pretty much a collector's > medium, the new vinyl releases tend to be very well pressed, often > using virgin vinyl. I've not had the benefit of hearing any (my > turntable is many, many miles away), but I'd imagine such audiophile > pressings would sound superb. I've got a couple of decent pressings (the Gates of Dawn releases of Steven Wilson stuff most rapidly spring to mind) and they are rather gorgeous, both in sound and as artefacts. I can tell I'm listening to vinyl, partly because my stereo's turntable has a silly low output and has to be turned up, so more line noise; but the vinyl surface noise I get off something like my old Flicknife _Zones_ is fabulously absent. I'm curious as to this idea of recycled vinyl; what was it being recycled from? Not old records surely! Oh, and while I'm on the subject, does anyone know if such things as one-channel pre-amps are available which might solve my turntable problem? Yours all, Jon ObCD-R: Mr Quimby's Beard - _Live in Milwaukee 19th October 2001_ -- Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun, So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice." (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century) From erics at TELEPRES.COM Tue Apr 27 16:13:37 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:13:37 -0400 Subject: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness In-Reply-To: ; from jjarrett@CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK on Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 07:19:51PM +0100 Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 07:19:51PM +0100, Jon Jarrett wrote: > I'm curious as to this idea of recycled vinyl; what was it being > recycled from? Not old records surely! There were rumours of this as far back as the late 70s. We believed that funky-coloured records (red, clear, etc.) couldn't be made from recycled vinyl, and so offered a guarantee against that particular form of shoddiness. All of this was rumour and hearsay; now, I wouldn't bet a nickel either way on any of the above assertions :-) Picture discs were a different story; they were pretty much scorned. There was a reason for that. I can't recall what it was, but it too sounded plausible at the time :-) (Could just have been pseudo-audiophile snobbery of course.) > Oh, and while I'm on the subject, does anyone know if such things > as one-channel pre-amps are available which might solve my turntable > problem? I take it your amp is too new to have a "phono" input? Yes, you can get a "phono preamp" to boost the turntable's outputs up to the standard levels expected by amplifiers' "auxiliary" inputs, computer sound cards, and other devices. I've never used one, so I can't make recommendations. -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Tue Apr 27 16:57:59 2004 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:57:59 -0400 Subject: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:13:37 -0400, Eric Siegerman wrote: >On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 07:19:51PM +0100, Jon Jarrett wrote: >> I'm curious as to this idea of recycled vinyl; what was it being >> recycled from? Not old records surely! > >There were rumours of this as far back as the late 70s. We >believed that funky-coloured records (red, clear, etc.) couldn't >be made from recycled vinyl, and so offered a guarantee against >that particular form of shoddiness. > >All of this was rumour and hearsay; now, I wouldn't bet a nickel >either way on any of the above assertions :-) It is 100% true that virgin vinyl is required for colored/transparent records. The one we had pressed up a couple weeks ago was delayed while they waited for the vinyl to arrive from Costa Rica (??!!?!). I'm not completely certain of the source of recycled vinyl, but it could certainly come from old records (what else were they going to do with all those Kiss solo albums that "shipped gold, returned platinum"?), as well as anything else made from polyvinyl chloride (PVC). >Picture discs were a different story; they were pretty much >scorned. There was a reason for that. I can't recall what it >was, but it too sounded plausible at the time :-) (Could just >have been pseudo-audiophile snobbery of course.) Picture discs are made by sandwiching a piece of paper with the picture on it between two pieces of vinyl. Consequently, there's less vinyl in the record, and having to graft two pieces of vinyl together may make it "weaker". But the vinyl itself has to be clear, and therefore virgin. >> Oh, and while I'm on the subject, does anyone know if such >> things as one-channel pre-amps are available which might solve my >> turntable problem? I assume you mean "two-channel" pre-amps? (unless you have a mono turntable) Yes, there are many possibilities; I have a friend who bought one recently - I can ask for a recommendation if you like. -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Tue Apr 27 17:01:11 2004 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:01:11 -0400 Subject: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness In-Reply-To: <20040427161337.B21342@telepres.com> Message-ID: Picture discs, as different from "colored" vinyl, were made from a softer vinyl (introductions of different colors so as to make up a picture on the disc would not have been possible with "regular" Vinyl) and would actually be degraded by the simple fact of playing the LP. All the Pic Discs I have been played ONCE and while transferring them to cassette so I could listen to the actual music. Recycled Vinyl was from other sources, not Records. The impurity level from the Recycling process allowed for clicks to be inherent in a "perfect" pressing. Also this Vinyl also degraded quicker than Virgin Vinyl over the same number of playings. As a short cut the record industry also made thinner and thinner records so as to save money. Both these factors led to the warping and degrading of Vinyl that was mass produced. Virgin Vinyl was just as stated. Not recycled but original processed vinyl. Audiophiles preferred this type of vinyl because the impurities from the Recycling process would not be found and the likelihood of bad pressings decreased dramatically. Also the companies that used this seemed to care more for the audiophile and pressed thicker records. Can you tell I used to collect this stuff? I have over 1000 albums in a cool closet so to reduce warping etc. Take care. Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Eric Siegerman Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:14 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 07:19:51PM +0100, Jon Jarrett wrote: > I'm curious as to this idea of recycled vinyl; what was it being > recycled from? Not old records surely! There were rumours of this as far back as the late 70s. We believed that funky-coloured records (red, clear, etc.) couldn't be made from recycled vinyl, and so offered a guarantee against that particular form of shoddiness. All of this was rumour and hearsay; now, I wouldn't bet a nickel either way on any of the above assertions :-) Picture discs were a different story; they were pretty much scorned. There was a reason for that. I can't recall what it was, but it too sounded plausible at the time :-) (Could just have been pseudo-audiophile snobbery of course.) > Oh, and while I'm on the subject, does anyone know if such things > as one-channel pre-amps are available which might solve my turntable > problem? I take it your amp is too new to have a "phono" input? Yes, you can get a "phono preamp" to boost the turntable's outputs up to the standard levels expected by amplifiers' "auxiliary" inputs, computer sound cards, and other devices. I've never used one, so I can't make recommendations. -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From yadnala at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Apr 27 17:47:50 2004 From: yadnala at HOTMAIL.COM (alan day) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:47:50 +0000 Subject: Northhampton: any idaes onnB&Bs? Message-ID: Just making it to the last one ...nneed somewhere... a room for ". Any suggestions Pleeeeesssssee?? _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From greenhalgh.david at NTLWORLD.COM Tue Apr 27 18:19:42 2004 From: greenhalgh.david at NTLWORLD.COM (David Greenhalgh) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:19:42 +0100 Subject: HW: Portsmouth Message-ID: As thunder crashed and lightening flashed around Portsmouth, and the star warrior took time out from throwing shapes against the horizon to bring his washing in and close the sunroof, it looked like it was going to be a good night. Not put off by the barman at the Pyramids ("Pint of Bitter, please." "Sorry, sir. But we've got John Smith's." Close enough,) I could just about hear Huw through the chatter of quite a lot of people who didn't know who he was. He is looking better, as others have said and his version of Hurry on Sundown was actually the best I've heard in a while, even though the Dr Brown guys turned down the opportunity to join him on stage. The Hawkset was as previously advertised on the list, with all the previously advertised "dodgy bits." Angela Android is not a set opener IMHO. It takes Richard too long to get his voice going for this to be a kick start to the night. By the end of Assault and Battery the "Aahs" had more or less converged on a key and from then on the smoked. I have to say that this was about the tightest I have ever seen the Hawks. Maybe that is partly due to having so much pre-sequenced material it was impossible to jam, but for whatever reason, they were more together than I have seen for a long time. Glossing over the techno bit, and the comment from the Hawkwind virgin we went with ("Are they miming?") the trio incarnation seems to be working, maybe I need to go to the fest in Germany... Dave From merlinas at BTCONNECT.COM Tue Apr 27 18:32:38 2004 From: merlinas at BTCONNECT.COM (Dave Bottomley) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:32:38 +0100 Subject: New album Message-ID: Hi folks I know there are lots of folks out there who won't get to see HW on the latest tour & who might be curious about the track listing for Take Me To Your Leader as quoted in the tour programme. So, here it is: Spirit Of The Age Take Me To Your Leader Digital Nation Out Here We Are Sunray String Theory The Reality Of Poverty Cyber Space Letter To Robert Silver Machine Presumably, Angela Android will still make an appearance on the SotA single. Also worth pointing out that the album cover is great. Guests are: Arthur Brown, Lene Lovich, Matthew Wright & Lemmy. But by my reckoning, there's a whole bunch of tracks that the band supposedly recorded that haven't made the final track listing. These would be: Land Of Dreams Sparkles & Slide Population Overload Techno Land The Molecular Family Asylum Island One World Future Trip Of course, some of these may have been retitled & *are* featured on the album, but I suspect most are not. Can anyone in the Hawk camp shed some light on these tracks & if/when/where they might appear? Dave From colm.mcwilliams at NTLWORLD.COM Tue Apr 27 19:24:02 2004 From: colm.mcwilliams at NTLWORLD.COM (colm mcwilliams) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 00:24:02 +0100 Subject: New album Message-ID: i knew spirit of the age was going to be on the cd but silver machine? When did that happen? colm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bottomley" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 11:32 PM Subject: New album > Hi folks > > I know there are lots of folks out there who won't get to see HW on the > latest tour & who might be curious about the track listing for Take Me To > Your Leader as quoted in the tour programme. So, here it is: > > Spirit Of The Age > Take Me To Your Leader > Digital Nation > Out Here We Are > Sunray > String Theory > The Reality Of Poverty > Cyber Space > Letter To Robert > Silver Machine > > Presumably, Angela Android will still make an appearance on the SotA single. > > Also worth pointing out that the album cover is great. Guests are: Arthur > Brown, Lene Lovich, Matthew Wright & Lemmy. > > But by my reckoning, there's a whole bunch of tracks that the band > supposedly recorded that haven't made the final track listing. These would > be: > > Land Of Dreams > Sparkles & Slide > Population Overload > Techno Land > The Molecular Family > Asylum Island > One World Future > Trip > > Of course, some of these may have been retitled & *are* featured on the > album, but I suspect most are not. Can anyone in the Hawk camp shed some > light on these tracks & if/when/where they might appear? > > Dave > From si at SICKTHINGSUK.CO.UK Tue Apr 27 20:47:08 2004 From: si at SICKTHINGSUK.CO.UK (Si Halley) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:47:08 +0100 Subject: Portsmouth/Southsea Message-ID: Myself, and two companions (HW live newbies) arrived at Southsea about 6.45 and headed to the pub in front of the venue for a beverage or three. Worryingly the pub was pretty empty but I reasoned from past experiences that this didn`t really mean anything. After a relaxing chin wag we moved up to the venue proper. Sure enough it was pretty full so that was sorted. I went in without a hitch but my companion was stopped and sent away for the heinous crime of having a camera about his person. Good job we`d driven as the security wouldn`t let him in with it so back to the car it went. Shame. This pissed off said companion a great deal but such is life. Strangely they didn`t even search me and I had a camra in my pocket as well. What is HW`s policy on amuteur cameras? I thought the venue itself was pretty cool and there was some food available which was handy as we`d been on the road since about 3pm doing various pickups and stuff. About 5 minutes after arriving Huw took the stage and worked his way around some of his HW tracks with good humour. We took up a place to stage right in front of Dave's gear and against the barrier with the plan to move more central if the sound proved to be poor. We never moved which is a good sign. Before "..Sundown" Huw asked for the Dr Brown bloke to join him on Harmonica "as he always has a few on him". Said Brown appeared near us trying to signal Huw that he in fact didn`t have said instrumentation but to no avail as Huw couldn`t see him. Oh well. Quick run to the loo/bar and the Hawks appear one by one and head into "Angela Android". Why don`t people like this? I thought on first listen it was great and female newbie with us was rocking back and forth contentedly. All was cool. Would certainly rather have this on the new album then yet another "Silver Machine" with or without Lemmy. The set continued as has been listed before. "Hassan.." aside (time for quick beer run in the middle!) I enjoyed the mix of new/old/rare choices in general although I`m not convinced about the synth-based "Spirit Of The Age". It didn`t seem to have the power of previous versions. The set seemed to sometimes really take off (Right stuff, encores) before coming back down to merely great. Dave and Alan seemed to be enjoying themselves although Dave, from our angle, was hidden a lot of the time, as usual. Shame. All in all a cool gig. Not the greatest but far from the worse and I really enjoyed it but in the end I have to agree with others that they need a lead guitar or Sax or frontman or something. Doesn`t matter which and any of these would have possibly added the right element. Oh, and a real keyboardist to release Alan and Dave a bit. Anyway, end result was that newbies thought it was, quote: "excellent" though were surprised at no "Silver Machine". I explained most of us were sick of it and they understood. Should have told them before but as I never expect it I didn`t think about it!! Picked up a programme (which I`ll check in a minute before bed), and the "Spaced.." CD that I had planned to pick up (?14 in Southsea) and am listening to it now. Very nice, although limited packaging is a bit disappointing as someone has mentioned earlier. Such a shame when the front, back and music is so good! Ramble over. Sorry for typos. Si (note to self: Don`t miss a tour again!) "The Eyes Of Alice Cooper" - In Stores NOW! ------------ The Alice Cooper Trivia File: http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk UK Unofficial Alice Cooper Convention: http://www.sickcon.co.uk From erics at TELEPRES.COM Wed Apr 28 01:49:46 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:49:46 -0400 Subject: Northhampton: any idaes onnB&Bs? In-Reply-To: ; from yadnala@HOTMAIL.COM on Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 09:47:50PM +0000 Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 09:47:50PM +0000, alan day wrote: > Just making it to the last one ...nneed somewhere... a room for ". Any > suggestions Pleeeeesssssee?? In Dec. 2002, I stayed at the Castilian House. Nice B&B; pleasant folks running it; about 2.2 miles from the club. At that time, the rate for a single was ?21. Castilian House, 34 Park Avenue North, Abington, Northampton, NN3 2JE, 01604 712863 Other candidates from my list (I don't seem to have recorded why I stayed where I did, instead of at these -- maybe price, maybe they were full, maybe they had an early curfew as B&B's often do, or maybe sheer chance): Aran Hotel, 58-59 Billing Road, Northampton, NN1 5DE, 01604 621468; 1.3 miles from club Courtyard, Bedford Road, Northampton NN4 7YF; 2.2 miles Colton Park, 74 Towcester Road, Northampton, Northamptonshire, NN4 8LQ, 01327 340872; 2.4 miles Best of luck! -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From MLee at GROUPWISE.LINNEY.COM Wed Apr 28 05:58:37 2004 From: MLee at GROUPWISE.LINNEY.COM (Mark Lee) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:58:37 +0100 Subject: OFF: Test Message-ID: Changed Server and Email - just a little test. Mark (Hasbeen) DISCLAIMER: Information contained in this email or any attachment may be of a confidential nature which should not be disclosed to, copied or used by anyone other than the addressee. If you receive this email in error, please delete the email from your computer. Internet communications are not secure and therefore W & J Linney Limited and/or its associated companies does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Although the W & J Linney Group operates anti-virus programmes, it does not accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever that is caused by viruses being passed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the W & J Linney Group. Replies to this email may be monitored by the W & J Linney Group for operational or business reasons. From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Wed Apr 28 12:23:34 2004 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:23:34 -0400 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404271818.i3RIIWXw013885@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 07:18:32PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: [[Observations about the UK political parties and UK election.]] I guess I wasn't thinking about UK politics in specific, which is why I used "Party A" and "Party B." (I realise I should have generalised it to "Party 1 ... Party N.") But, I agree with you that if you can be guaranteed that the parties do not differ appreciably from each other in their policies, then it doesn't make sense to spend time becoming informed about them, and a random choice is about as useful a strategy as any. (That raises a chicken-and-egg problem: how do you arrive at that state of knowledge that there are no essential policy differences.:) But, I would caution against using appeals to the "average" in such logic, especially when directed towards natural/sociological phenomena. Such distributions are often not Normal (i.e., Gaussian), which aligns naturally with our popular notion of "fairness" and "balance." With a statement like "assume the average wage is 20K," I would be much happier if you'd at the very least used the median. Incomes and wealth are notoriously Pareto in their distribution, and the mean is often well above the median because of the high skew in the distribution. The same goes for natural phenomena such as popularity, etc. Things are more naturally highly-skewed than people appreciate, and most of the variance in the distribution is actually concentrated right at (and contributed by) the extreme upper tail. (One effect of this is that a relatively tiny number of such outliers have a tremendous bias effect upon the whole.) Those of us needing to do file size and access modelling know it's a real pain to generate accurately those upper tails for the purposes of creating synthetic large-scale collections and workloads. :-( Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Wed Apr 28 12:30:44 2004 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:30:44 -0400 Subject: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness In-Reply-To: <20040427161337.B21342@telepres.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 04:13:37PM -0400, Eric Siegerman wrote: => I take it your amp is too new to have a "phono" input? Yes, you => can get a "phono preamp" to boost the turntable's outputs up to => the standard levels expected by amplifiers' "auxiliary" inputs, => computer sound cards, and other devices. I've never used one, so => I can't make recommendations. Isn't it also a very important function of the "phono" input of an amplifier to correct for the RIAA equalisation present on vinyl records? Without that, the record will sound "wrong." I believe "phono pre-amps" are to amplify the signal of low-output phono cartridges. A dim and distant memory tells me that moving-coil cartridges (as opposed to moving magnet) tend to suffer more from this problem. (I could well have that backwards.:) Because of this, phono pre-amps may not do RIAA equalisation. Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From gerald.whitworth at CEVA-DSP.COM Wed Apr 28 12:38:05 2004 From: gerald.whitworth at CEVA-DSP.COM (Gerald Whitworth) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:38:05 +0100 Subject: Northhampton: any idaes onnB&Bs? Message-ID: Try the IBIS hotel, about 100 yards from the RoadMender. A double room for the 30th April will set you back ?37.95. Breakfast is an additional ?4.25. The phone number of the Ibis is 01604 608900. See you there... Gerry -----Original Message----- From: alan day [mailto:yadnala at HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: 27 April 2004 22:48 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Northhampton: any idaes onnB&Bs? Just making it to the last one ...nneed somewhere... a room for ". Any suggestions Pleeeeesssssee?? _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Wed Apr 28 12:38:10 2004 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:38:10 -0400 Subject: OFF: Test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 10:58:37AM +0100, Mark Lee wrote: => Changed Server and Email - just a little test. => => Mark (Hasbeen) => => DISCLAIMER: Information contained in this email or any => attachment may be of a confidential nature which should not be disclosed => to, copied or used by anyone other than the addressee. If you => receive this email in error, please delete the email from => your computer. Internet communications are not secure and => therefore W & J Linney Limited and/or its associated companies => does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this => message. Although the W & J Linney Group operates anti-virus => programmes, it does not accept responsibility for any damage => whatsoever that is caused by viruses being passed. Any views => or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do => not necessarily represent those of the W & J Linney Group. => Replies to this email may be monitored by the W & J Linney => Group for operational or business reasons. A good first little test, but you need a larger signature/disclaimer. Perhaps you could have it translated into several different languages and appended? >;-) Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Apr 28 12:53:40 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:53:40 +0100 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: Paul Mather's message of Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:23:34 -0400 Message-ID: Paul Mather writes: > On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 07:18:32PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: > > [[Observations about the UK political parties and UK election.]] > I guess I wasn't thinking about UK politics in specific, which is why > I used "Party A" and "Party B." I'm moderately aware of US politics and modern history and I wouldn't say that your average yank needs to spend much time trying to distinguish elephants from donkeys. The Democrats will tax and spend while the Republicans will borrow and spend, and tax you to pay the loan and interest. Seems to me it comes down to which rights you'd rather be shafted over: First or Second Amendment. Now if someone who could win were advocating abolishing income tax, or repeal laws sneakeed through under the Interstae Commerce clause, then I could get seriously interested. However, in a good year, the Libertarian Party would just about get enough Elephant votes to see Bush juniour go back to Baseball. OTOH, if we have any yank politics experts here, I may have questions. I'm designing a board game based on elections there. > (I realise I should have generalised > it to "Party 1 ... Party N.") But, I agree with you that if you can > be guaranteed that the parties do not differ appreciably from each > other in their policies, then it doesn't make sense to spend time > becoming informed about them, and a random choice is about as useful a > strategy as any. (That raises a chicken-and-egg problem: how do you > arrive at that state of knowledge that there are no essential policy > differences.:) Trust me: there are only a handful of people who do this by reading the manifestoes and those documents are lies for the party faithful more than anything. > But, I would caution against using appeals to the "average" in such > logic, especially when directed towards natural/sociological > phenomena. Such distributions are often not Normal (i.e., Gaussian), > which aligns naturally with our popular notion of "fairness" and > "balance." With a statement like "assume the average wage is 20K," I > would be much happier if you'd at the very least used the median. Fair point sir, but it wouldn't really make much difference to my argument in this case. FoFP From erics at TELEPRES.COM Wed Apr 28 12:54:36 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:54:36 -0400 Subject: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness In-Reply-To: <20040428163044.GC88311@gromit.dlib.vt.edu>; from paul@GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU on Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 12:30:44PM -0400 Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 12:30:44PM -0400, Paul Mather wrote: > Isn't it also a very important function of the "phono" input of an > amplifier to correct for the RIAA equalisation present on vinyl > records? Hmm, I didn't know about that, but it appears you're right. At least, some of the ones advertised on the Web talk about RIAA equalization. -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Apr 28 12:55:10 2004 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:55:10 +0100 Subject: Northampton Message-ID: Anyone driving there from Scotland and looking for a passenger to share the petrol? FoFP From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Wed Apr 28 13:46:31 2004 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:46:31 -0400 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404281653.i3SGreBU020253@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 12:53, M Holmes wrote: > Paul Mather writes: > > But, I would caution against using appeals to the "average" in such > > logic, especially when directed towards natural/sociological > > phenomena. Such distributions are often not Normal (i.e., Gaussian), > > which aligns naturally with our popular notion of "fairness" and > > "balance." With a statement like "assume the average wage is 20K," I > > would be much happier if you'd at the very least used the median. > > Fair point sir, but it wouldn't really make much difference to my argument > in this case. Agreed. In fact it would bolster it, as in such a skewed distribution the median income is less than the mean income. (Of course, those at the upper tail of the distribution are gambling more, and hence have more of an incentive to ensure that their chosen candidate wins.) Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From erics at TELEPRES.COM Wed Apr 28 14:00:16 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:00:16 -0400 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <1083174391.88910.7.camel@gromit.dlib.vt.edu>; from paul@GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU on Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 01:46:31PM -0400 Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 01:46:31PM -0400, Paul Mather wrote: > (Of course, those at the upper tail of the distribution are gambling > more, and hence have more of an incentive to ensure that their chosen > candidate wins.) And more resources available to put toward ensuring it :-/ -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK Wed Apr 28 16:15:28 2004 From: jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Jill Strobridge) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:15:28 +0100 Subject: HW: amusing Hawkwind conversations no. 11376 Message-ID: At some point in the conversation with the box office while buying a ticket for Wolverhampton the guy asked "And what's your postcode?" I told him - there was a short pause "That's Edinburgh" - - I agreed "Scotland" -spot on! - There was another pause - he then asked "You know that this gig is in Wolverhampton?" I'm sorry to say I burst out laughing - which was a bit unfair. I'm sure he was only trying to be helpful - I guess Scotland must seem like the other end of the universe if you live in Wolverhampton. Mind you, he could be right. Trying to get a train down there was a serious test of English geography - I'm going to learn a lot about English Midland towns on this trip 8-( jill ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jill Strobridge ----------------------------------------------------------------- From erics at TELEPRES.COM Wed Apr 28 17:27:40 2004 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:27:40 -0400 Subject: HW: amusing Hawkwind conversations no. 11376 In-Reply-To: <004901c42d5d$8d0f11c0$be99193e@jds>; from jill@THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK on Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 09:15:28PM +0100 Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 09:15:28PM +0100, Jill Strobridge wrote: > - There was another pause > - he then asked > "You know that this gig is in Wolverhampton?" Oooo, he's the one I want to talk to if I ever book a ticket there from Toronto... -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / It must be said that they would have sounded better if the singer wouldn't throw his fellow band members to the ground and toss the drum kit around during songs. - Patrick Lenneau From mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM Wed Apr 28 22:01:24 2004 From: mikemont at NYCAP.RR.COM (Mike Montfort) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:01:24 -0400 Subject: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts In-Reply-To: <200404281653.i3SGreBU020253@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: If that is a serious inquiry Mike e-Mail me offlist, I've got a pretty good handle on "yank" politics. I think I set this email that if you hit reply it will reply to me not the list, but if not my email is below. If this was just a gag then just ignore this email Michael Corwyn Montfort, esq. mikemont at nycap.rr.com http://corwyn.blogspot.com the blog http://www.mikemontfort.com the website _________________________ Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. -- Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of M Holmes Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 12:54 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: Re: HW: Tour Shirts (snip) OTOH, if we have any yank politics experts here, I may have questions. I'm designing a board game based on elections there. (snip) FoFP From MLee at GROUPWISE.LINNEY.COM Thu Apr 29 06:08:36 2004 From: MLee at GROUPWISE.LINNEY.COM (Mark Lee) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:08:36 +0100 Subject: OFF: Dodgy Vinyl Message-ID: Dudes, Two things, I use a Project turntable and a Marantz amp, although the amp has phono inputs but instead I stick the output through a dedicated phono amp (Project) and run the output from that into my CD2 input stage instead. Most major manufacturers would probably recommend the same kind of setup unless you have 'reference' quality amplification. And secondly, I will be translating my signature into Urdu, Svengali, Yiddish, Aramaic, Pidgeon, Gaelic and French shortly in an attempt to hog as much space as possible in every issue of the digest..... Seriously though, I can't turn it off, it's appended by the outbound server at my place of employ. Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:30:44 -0400 From: Paul Mather Subject: Re: HW RE: off into dodgy vinyl ness On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 04:13:37PM -0400, Eric Siegerman wrote: => I take it your amp is too new to have a "phono" input? Yes, you => can get a "phono preamp" to boost the turntable's outputs up to => the standard levels expected by amplifiers' "auxiliary" inputs, => computer sound cards, and other devices. I've never used one, so => I can't make recommendations. Isn't it also a very important function of the "phono" input of an amplifier to correct for the RIAA equalisation present on vinyl records? Without that, the record will sound "wrong." I believe "phono pre-amps" are to amplify the signal of low-output phono cartridges. A dim and distant memory tells me that moving-coil cartridges (as opposed to moving magnet) tend to suffer more from this problem. (I could well have that backwards.:) Because of this, phono pre-amps may not do RIAA equalisation. Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa ------------------------------ A good first little test, but you need a larger signature/disclaimer. Perhaps you could have it translated into several different languages and appended? >;-) Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa ------------------------------ DISCLAIMER: Information contained in this email or any attachment may be of a confidential nature which should not be disclosed to, copied or used by anyone other than the addressee. If you receive this email in error, please delete the email from your computer. Internet communications are not secure and therefore W & J Linney Limited and/or its associated companies does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Although the W & J Linney Group operates anti-virus programmes, it does not accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever that is caused by viruses being passed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the W & J Linney Group. Replies to this email may be monitored by the W & J Linney Group for operational or business reasons.