From mlee at LINNEYDIRECT.COM Mon Sep 1 11:17:49 2003 From: mlee at LINNEYDIRECT.COM (Mark Lee) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:17:49 +0100 Subject: OFF: Ozrics Message-ID: Hi All, Had a great weekend at the 16th Off The Tracks Festival at/near Donington Park, Derby over the weekend. Top of the bill Saturday night were Ozric Tentacles, who played a blinding set, I was far too wasted to get the complete set list, suffice to say it was all old classics, Sunscape, Sploosh etc etc. It's been about 4 years since I saw them and they are still in great shape. Other higlights for me were an Australian duo, drummer and acoustic guitar only, name of Derrin Nauendorf, these guys were bloody brilliant, if you get a chance go and see them !! they had the room up for a standing ovation, which for the last band to play on Sunday afternoon, a chill out and wind down day at OTT, was amazing. Regards, Leo . ----- END ----- From mlee at LINNEYDIRECT.COM Mon Sep 1 11:21:31 2003 From: mlee at LINNEYDIRECT.COM (Mark Lee) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:21:31 +0100 Subject: HW: Sort off ? Message-ID: Anybody who is interested and/or in the area might like to know that Dr Hasbeen will be on at the Run To The Sun 2003 rally on Sat 27th September. More info to be found at www.ribcrackers.co.uk Mark (Hasbeen) ----- END ----- From nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM Tue Sep 2 19:59:15 2003 From: nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM (nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:59:15 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: Don't know how many of you have seen this, but Rolling Stone's new issue has the 100 greatest guitarists in rock. No Buck Dharma. In the top 100. Disgusting. Here's the list for those who care. . . 1 Jimi Hendrix 2 Duane Allman of the Allman Brothers Band 3 B.B. King 4 Eric Clapton 5 Robert Johnson 6 Chuck Berry 7 Stevie Ray Vaughan 8 Ry Cooder 9 Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin 10 Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones 11Kirk Hammett of Metallica 12 Kurt Cobain of Nirvana 13 Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead 14 Jeff Beck 15 Carlos Santana 16 Johnny Ramone of the Ramones 17 Jack White of the White Stripes 18 John Frusciante of the Red Hot Chili Peppers 19 Richard Thompson 20 James Burton 21 George Harrison 22 Mike Bloomfield 23 Warren Haynes 24 The Edge of U2 25 Freddy King 26 Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave 27 Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits 28 Stephen Stills 29 Ron Asheton of the Stooges 30 Buddy Guy 31 Dick Dale 32 John Cipollina of Quicksilver Messenger Service 33 & 34 Lee Ranaldo, Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth 35 John Fahey 36 Steve Cropper of Booker T. and the MG's 37 Bod Diddley 38 Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac 39 Brian May of Qeen 40 John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival 41 Clarence White of the Byrds 42 Robert Fripp of King Crimson 43 Eddie Hazel of Funkadelic 44 Scotty Moore 45 Frank Zappa 46 Les Paul 47 T-Bone Walker 48 Joe Perry of Aerosmith 49 John McLaughlin 50 Pete Townshend 51 Paul Kossoff of Free 52 Lou Reed 53 Mickey Baker 54 Jorma Kaukonen of Jefferson Airplane 55 Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple 56 Tom Verlaine of Television 57 Roy Buchanan 58 Dickey Betts 59 & 60 Jonny Greenwood, Ed O'Brien of Radiohead 61 Ike Turner 62 Zoot Horn Rollo of the Magic Band 63 Danny Gatton 64 Mick Ronson 65 Hubert Sumlin 66 Vernon Reid of Living Colour 67 Link Wray 68 Jerry Miller of Moby Grape 69 Steve Howe of Yes 70 Eddie Van Halen 71 Lightnin' Hopkins 72 Joni Mitchell 73 Trey Anastasio of Phish 74 Johnny Winter 75 Adam Jones of Tool 76 Ali Farka Toure 77 Henry Vestine of Canned Heat 78 Robbie Robertson of the Band 79 Cliff Gallup of the Blue Caps (1997) 80 Robert Quine of the Voidoids 81 Derek Trucks 82 David Gilmour of Pink Floyd 83 Neil Young 84 Eddie Cochran 85 Randy Rhoads 86 Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath 87 Joan Jett 88 Dave Davies of the Kinks 89 D. Boon of the Minutemen 90 Glen Buxton of Alice Cooper 91 Robby Krieger of the Doors 92 & 93 Fred "Sonic" Smith, Wayne Kramer of the MC5 94 Bert Jansch 95 Kevin Shields of My Bloody Valentine 96 Angus Young of AC/DC 97 Robert Randolph 98 Leigh Stephens of Blue Cheer 99 Greg Ginn of Black Flag 100 Kim Thayil of Soundgarden From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Tue Sep 2 21:08:38 2003 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:08:38 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:59:15 -0400, nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM wrote: >Don't know how many of you have seen this, but Rolling Stone's new issue >has the 100 greatest guitarists in rock. No Buck Dharma. In the top >100. Disgusting. What's really disgusting is that my bandmate has seen both of the top two guitarists at least twice (Jimi with the Soft Machine opening, Duane with the bros. in a high school gym). BASTARD!!! >Here's the list for those who care. . . > >1 Jimi Hendrix >2 Duane Allman of the Allman Brothers Band In the meantime, some I (strongly) agree with ... >5 Robert Johnson >8 Ry Cooder >19 Richard Thompson >20 James Burton >29 Ron Asheton of the Stooges >31 Dick Dale >32 John Cipollina of Quicksilver Messenger Service >35 John Fahey >37 Bo Diddley >38 Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac >43 Eddie Hazel of Funkadelic >54 Jorma Kaukonen of Jefferson Airplane >56 Tom Verlaine of Television >67 Link Wray >76 Ali Farka Toure >92 & 93 Fred "Sonic" Smith, Wayne Kramer of the MC5 >94 Bert Jansch >99 Greg Ginn of Black Flag ... and some that I don't ... >3 B.B. King >4 Eric Clapton >7 Stevie Ray Vaughan >12 Kurt Cobain of Nirvana >26 Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave >27 Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits >28 Stephen Stills (how did he get rated higher than Neil Young?!?) >52 Lou Reed (but I still love the Velvet Underground) >69 Steve Howe of Yes (but Steve Howe of Tomorrow gets my vote!) Just opinions, of course. Criticism costs more than 2 cents (or 2p). -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Wed Sep 3 00:40:04 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 00:40:04 EDT Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: In a message dated 9/2/2003 8:02:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM writes: > Here's the list for those who care. . . > what a manufactured, manicured, and meaningless list... where's billy gibbons? hank marvin? alex lifeson? ronnie montrose? bill nelson? adrian belew? RORY GALLAGHER???????!!!!!!!!!! glen buxton?-----it was dick wagner all along! joe perry?------- brad whitford smokes him jack whitestripes? WHY? JOAN JETT???????? my teeth hurt.... this must have been a poll, please someone tell me it was a poll; that would explain the utter lunacy of this list,,, otherwise it's a politically correct, cross-genre, multigeneration-friendly, dishonestly constructed waste of time. *ahem* daslud lives bobm From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 3 04:53:23 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:53:23 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 00:40:04 EDT, RMayo19761 at AOL.COM wrote: > >my teeth hurt.... this must have been a poll, please someone tell me it was a >poll; that would explain the utter lunacy of this list Well, I haven't read it, nor do I intend to, but my guess it wasn't a poll, at least not one of the general readership- would Robert Johnson be in at No 5, for example, and wouldn't others (e.g. Eddie Van Halen and Dave Gilmour) would have come in a lot higher if it was based on mass popularity alone (which it what such polls generally come down to)? The fact that the 2 guitarists from the MC5 (hurrah) and, er, Radiohead (ahem) are placed together also indicates this wasn't a poll. Interested to see Doug's agree/disagree list, I broadly concur. The VU were a fantastic group but there's no way anyone could straightfacedly claim that Lou Reed should be on this list! Top 100 songwriters, yes, but not guitarists. And Kurt Cobain at number 12 is a farce. People I would have liked to have seen on the list (some very wishful thinking here given the nature of Rolling Stone magazine, but here goes anyway): Steve Hillage Steve Albini (Big Black) Ray "Captain Sensible" Burns Richard Lloyd (Television- Tom Verlaine got in but no Lloyd, who's perhaps not quite as great as Verlaine, but still deserving) Gary Lucas Peter Laughner (early Pere Ubu) As for people I might have *expected* to be there, but aren't, well I'd have included Buck Dharma and Billy Gibbons for sure. Having said all that, there are some people I wouldn't necessarily have expected to make a list in such a mainstream publication- I'm pleasantly surprised to see for example: 19 Richard Thompson 33 & 34 Lee Ranaldo, Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth 71 Lightnin' Hopkins 89 D. Boon of the Minutemen 92 & 93 Fred "Sonic" Smith, Wayne Kramer of the MC5 94 Bert Jansch 95 Kevin Shields of My Bloody Valentine 98 Leigh Stephens of Blue Cheer 99 Greg Ginn of Black Flag So it could have been better, but it could have been worse too. Nick From mlee at LINNEYDIRECT.COM Wed Sep 3 05:27:58 2003 From: mlee at LINNEYDIRECT.COM (Mark Lee) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:27:58 +0100 Subject: OFF: Great Guitar In-Reply-To: <200309030900.h838rNk4023644@ns1.ispnetinc.net> Message-ID: John Williams !!! Where is he. Whoever played guitar on Sabre Dance by Love Sculpture, and if anybody knows where I can get a new copy of this I would appreciate the info... My guess, somebody who likes blues influenced guitar ! Mark (Hasbeen) From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Wed Sep 3 07:29:28 2003 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:29:28 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: >>> RMayo19761 at AOL.COM 09/03/03 12:40AM >>> what a manufactured, manicured, and meaningless list... where's billy gibbons? And nobody from Skynyrd? How is it that neither ZZ Top nor Skynyrd are in the rock hall of fame? ZZ Top has been around over 30 years with the same lineup, and has always had a major label contract throughout that time. I defy anyone to name another group who can claim that! joe perry?------- brad whitford smokes him You know it! Haven't seen them lately [why would I?] but back in the day, Brad always dusted Joe, at least the several times I saw Aerosmith in the 70s... my teeth hurt.... this must have been a poll, please someone tell me it was a poll; that would explain the utter lunacy of this list,,, otherwise it's a politically correct, cross-genre, multigeneration-friendly, dishonestly constructed waste of time. *ahem* Yeah, we wouldn't want to omit some flavor of the day hacker who's been playing for 8 months for fear of losing our already-nonexistant street cred. Man, getting old sucks, more so for critics than anyone else, I suspect... daslud lives Long may his memory shine! Good for him he didn't have to see this list! theo From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Wed Sep 3 07:40:03 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:40:03 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists In-Reply-To: <200309022359.TAA61672@www1524.boca15-verio.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 07:59:15PM -0400, nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM wrote: => Don't know how many of you have seen this, but Rolling Stone's new => issue has the 100 greatest guitarists in rock. No Buck Dharma. In => the top 100. Disgusting. It's deja vu all over again. :-) This list was done to death on another list I'm on, so maybe I'll get to experience that all over again. Remember folks, this is ROLLING STONE. Enough said. BTW, to illustrate the idiocy of it all, Robert Randolph (#97) doesn't even play *guitar* (as his primary instrument). He plays pedal steel, which is a very different animal. Bass guitar is closer to guitar than that, and you don't see any bassists eligible, do you?... Rolling Stone should stick to what they're good at: boy bands and reality show stars. Cheers, Paul. PS: I really like Robert Randolph, so I'm not knocking on him. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 3 08:05:58 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:05:58 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:40:03 -0400, Paul Mather wrote: >BTW, to illustrate the idiocy of it all, Robert Randolph (#97) doesn't >even play *guitar* (as his primary instrument). He plays pedal steel, >which is a very different animal. Bass guitar is closer to guitar >than that, and you don't see any bassists eligible, do you?... > >PS: I really like Robert Randolph, so I'm not knocking on him. I had never even heard of him until I read this list earlier this morning. But by a strange synchronicity I've just seen him on TV- I liked the song (forgotten the title already) a lot- catchy, uplifting, funky... these are not words normally associated with music I like, but funky in that totally un-crap way that one almost never encounters these days. And a blistering pedal steel solo rounding it all off. Nice. Nick From jmajk at INDY.RR.COM Wed Sep 3 08:22:26 2003 From: jmajk at INDY.RR.COM (John Majka) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:22:26 -0500 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: Such lists are mainly just fuel for discussion, but still there are zillions of people not on the list who ought to be. Where is Alex Lifeson? J. Mascis? Bob Mould? And although I like Nirvana a lot, I don't think it's fair to put Kurt Cobain in the ranks of the guitar gods... he was mainly a songwriter. John Majka jmajk at indy.rr.com From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 3 09:12:40 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:12:40 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Guitar Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:27:58 +0100, Mark Lee wrote: > >Whoever played guitar on Sabre Dance by Love Sculpture, Dave Edmunds. See: http://www.spies.com/~reverb/reviews/l/love2380.html and >if anybody knows where I can get a new copy of this I would >appreciate the info... Plenty of hits for this on Google, seems to be on various comps, shouldn't be too hard to track down. Nick From petertrance at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 3 10:54:29 2003 From: petertrance at HOTMAIL.COM (PETER WILKINSON) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:54:29 +0000 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: yet another subjective discussion.........how does one differentiate? 'greatest' does not neccessarily mean the most technically acomplished. e.g. substitute 'greatest' for 'most influential' then perhaps rolling stone may make more sense. having said that , possibly the most influential guitarist in britain was bert weedon (seriously) because most old axe heads (richard , clapton etc) will readily tetsify that they used his 'play in a day ' guitar book to help them learn. peter >From: Ted Jackson >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:29:28 -0400 > > >>> RMayo19761 at AOL.COM 09/03/03 12:40AM >>> > >what a manufactured, manicured, and meaningless list... >where's billy gibbons? > >And nobody from Skynyrd? How is it that neither ZZ Top nor >Skynyrd are in the rock hall of fame? ZZ Top has been around over 30 >years with the same lineup, and has always had a major label contract >throughout that time. I defy anyone to name another group who can >claim that! > >joe perry?------- brad whitford smokes him > >You know it! Haven't seen them lately [why would I?] but back in >the day, Brad always dusted Joe, at least the several times I saw >Aerosmith in the 70s... > >my teeth hurt.... this must have been a poll, please someone tell me it >was a >poll; that would explain the utter lunacy of this list,,, otherwise >it's a >politically correct, cross-genre, multigeneration-friendly, >dishonestly >constructed waste of time. >*ahem* > >Yeah, we wouldn't want to omit some flavor of the day hacker who's >been playing for 8 months for fear of losing our already-nonexistant >street cred. Man, getting old sucks, more so for critics than anyone >else, I suspect... > >daslud lives > >Long may his memory shine! Good for him he didn't have to see >this list! > >theo _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Wed Sep 3 11:04:15 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:04:15 EDT Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: In a message dated 9/3/2003 10:55:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, petertrance at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > possibly the most influential guitarist > in britain was bert weedon (seriously) because most old axe heads (richard , > clapton etc) will readily tetsify that they used his 'play in a day ' guitar > book to help them learn. > the mighty Mel Bay was the man on this side o'the pond, then; i think i still have a few of his instructional books around my basement somewhere,,, my son will inherit them, no doubt bobm From sloterdijk at MSN.COM Wed Sep 3 12:00:47 2003 From: sloterdijk at MSN.COM (Burro Mike) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:00:47 +0000 Subject: HW, BRAIN: alternative venue sought for Brain Surgeons & One Eyed Bishops 10/18 Message-ID: Hello, due to circumstances beyond our control, our gig in New Brunswick ( see http://www.cellsum.com ) has been canceled. The place was shut down by the Police!!! If you can host this gig in Philly, NJ, or NYC please send me an e-mail at: Sloterdijk at msn.com This is a double bill with The OEBs ( or SLOTERDIJK if preferred) opening for The Brain Surgeons. If you are in a band and can arrange for a three band bill, that's fine too. There are a few financial requirements, but they are minimal....Peace, Mike Burro The Brain Surgeons: http://cellsum.com ( see tourdates) The One Eyed Bishops: http://theoneeyedbishops.iuma.com SLOTERDIJK: http://www.mp3.com/sloterdijk _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Wed Sep 3 19:13:24 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:13:24 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 08:05:58AM -0400, Nick Medford wrote: => On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:40:03 -0400, Paul Mather => wrote: => => >BTW, to illustrate the idiocy of it all, Robert Randolph (#97) doesn't => >even play *guitar* (as his primary instrument). He plays pedal steel, => >which is a very different animal. Bass guitar is closer to guitar => >than that, and you don't see any bassists eligible, do you?... => > => >PS: I really like Robert Randolph, so I'm not knocking on him. => => I had never even heard of him until I read this list earlier this morning. => But by a strange synchronicity I've just seen him on TV- I liked the song => (forgotten the title already) a lot- catchy, uplifting, funky... these are => not words normally associated with music I like, but funky in that totally => un-crap way that one almost never encounters these days. And a blistering => pedal steel solo rounding it all off. Nice. Robert Randolph and the Family Band shared a spot with the Blind Boys of Alabama on _Austin City Limits_ on PBS recently. (At least it was re-screened locally recently.) Robert Randolph really got the crowd fired up, and delivered a blistering performance. Good stuff!! Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Wed Sep 3 19:36:48 2003 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:36:48 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:05:58 -0400, Nick Medford wrote: >On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:40:03 -0400, Paul Mather >wrote: > >>BTW, to illustrate the idiocy of it all, Robert Randolph (#97) doesn't >>even play *guitar* (as his primary instrument). He plays pedal steel, >>which is a very different animal. Bass guitar is closer to guitar >>than that, and you don't see any bassists eligible, do you?... Well ... one generally plays chords on both 6-string and steel guitars, but not on bass, and it's much more common to play 6-string guitar with a slide than to play a bass with one. But aside from those, there are more similarities between guitar and bass than between guitar and steel (pedal or lap) :^). >>PS: I really like Robert Randolph, so I'm not knocking on him. > >I had never even heard of him until I read this list earlier this morning. >But by a strange synchronicity I've just seen him on TV- I liked the song >(forgotten the title already) a lot- catchy, uplifting, funky... these are >not words normally associated with music I like, but funky in that totally >un-crap way that one almost never encounters these days. And a blistering >pedal steel solo rounding it all off. Nice. And, of course, for some of the most mind-blowing psychedelic steel guitar you'll ever hear, check out Glen Campbell's (no, not the country singer!) work with the Misunderstood in the late 60's (obHWconnection: after the Misunderstood moved from Riverside, CA [former home of a boc-l member who's been known to do a great radio show] to England, they added guitarist Tony Hill, who was later in High Tide with Simon House; also, one of the Misunderstood's best songs was titled "Children Of The Sun", no relation to the Anderson/Turner number from xISoS). -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 3 21:50:48 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:50:48 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:36:48 -0400, Doug Pearson wrote: >And, of course, for some of the most mind-blowing psychedelic steel guitar >you'll ever hear, check out Glen Campbell's (no, not the country singer!) >work with the Misunderstood in the late 60's Well I never. So this, I presume, must be the same Glen Campbell that guested on one of the great lost albums of the 70s, Juicy Lucy's "Get A Whiff O'This". Confession- I always thought it *was* the country singer Glen Campbell. Which did rather puzzle me, I must admit. I've wondered about that for years. And for another tenuous HW connection, IIRC the comic strip artwork for that album was done by Gil Shelton, who also did the inner gatefold of the Pink Fairies' "What A Bunch of Sweeties", an album featuring Paul Rudolph (and all the other Fairies/HW connections). I have an original vinyl copy of the Juicy Lucy somewhere, it was quite a rarity even when I got it, I'd be intrigued to know what it goes for now, not that I'm thinking of selling it. Although it's not *that* great, really, the track with the steel guitar ("Midnight Sun" I think?) is probably the best thing on it, and overall it doesn't quite live up to it's semi-legendary status. Nick From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Thu Sep 4 07:37:07 2003 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:37:07 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: And, of course, for some of the most mind-blowing psychedelic steel guitar you'll ever hear, check out Glen Campbell's (no, not the country singer!) Yeah, well be careful how you approach the issue of Glenn Campbell the 'country singer' because he can absolutely crush 99% of all guitar players on this planet regardless of genre. Maybe his music doesn't appeal to the august members of this list, but the guy can play his ass off. In fact Glenn should be on any list of 'great guitarists.' In a similar poll about a year ago, they compiled a list of 100 greatest rock songs, and Glen had played on about 10 of them as a studio musician! theo From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Sep 4 09:00:25 2003 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Zebulon Mysterioso) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:00:25 +0000 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: >Well ... one generally plays chords on both 6-string and steel guitars, >but not on bass This is a sad fact that gets bassplayers a really bad name. Roots notes and fifths just doesn't cut it! I've been called "the best bassplayer in Northern Ireland" and "the finest bassist gigging around Belfast" simply because I use chords and stuff. I'm actually very good at all, I'm just not boring. Bass players - improve thyselves! Live not with the stygma of bass playing being just a thing people who can't play guitar do! _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Thu Sep 4 11:04:16 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:04:16 EDT Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: In a message dated 9/4/2003 9:01:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > I've been called "the best bassplayer in Northern Ireland" and "the finest > bassist gigging around Belfast" simply because I use chords and stuff. I'm > actually very good at all, I'm just not boring. > hopefully there's a word missing from the last sentence above...? 'not', perhaps? pretty important word, that bobm From mbraun at URBANA.CSS.MOT.COM Thu Sep 4 11:58:22 2003 From: mbraun at URBANA.CSS.MOT.COM (Matthew Braun) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:58:22 CDT Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Sep 2003 05:00:02 CDT." <200309040900.h84902jo026615@ns1.ispnetinc.net> Message-ID: Nick Medford writes: >On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:36:48 -0400, Doug Pearson >wrote: >>And, of course, for some of the most mind-blowing psychedelic steel guitar >>you'll ever hear, check out Glen Campbell's (no, not the country singer!) >>work with the Misunderstood in the late 60's > >Well I never. So this, I presume, must be the same Glen Campbell that >guested on one of the great lost albums of the 70s, Juicy Lucy's "Get A >Whiff O'This". > >Confession- I always thought it *was* the country singer Glen Campbell. According to: http://www.fuzzlogic.com/vdgg/juicy.htm, his name is _Glenn_ (with two 'n's) Campbell, even though he's listed as only having 1 'n' on album credits. The page says this of Juicy Lucy: Glenn 'Ross' Campbell gathered this gang soon after the end of Misunderstood. Their debut single Who Do You Love (also recorded by Misunderstood IV earlier) earned them a top 20 hit. Their self titled album of rock, blues & boogie blend climbed to no. 41 in the UK charts. Glenn left Juicy Lucy (III) in 1971 before the 4th. and last album. Keith Ellis: Keith Ian Ellis stayed on in Juicy Lucy II in 1970 (for one more album, Lie Back And Enjoy It), then played sessions with Bobby Whitlock, Paul Williams (ex Juicy Lucy II), joined Spooky Tooth in '74 and Boxer in '75. He died while on tour with Iron Butterfly in Germany in 1978. Check out Peter Hammill's Not For Keith (pH 7). m@ From bishop.garden at FALKOPING.MAIL.TELIA.COM Thu Sep 4 12:51:49 2003 From: bishop.garden at FALKOPING.MAIL.TELIA.COM (Kenneth Magnusson) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:51:49 +0200 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists In-Reply-To: <001601c37216$0975ade0$6601a8c0@cc177845c> Message-ID: >Where is Alex Lifeson? Well, he's in Canada getting ready to release their 3 CD/2DVD set with such singalong songs like By-Thor and The Snow Dog, Cygnus X-1 and Natural Science, the DVD also have a 1975 live recording of Anthem. ------- Moorbase Alpha - http://www.moll.pp.se/moor/ The Moor at mp3.com - http://www.mp3.com/TheMoor From jmajk at INDY.RR.COM Thu Sep 4 13:31:59 2003 From: jmajk at INDY.RR.COM (John Majka) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:31:59 -0500 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: Well that sounds exciting. I've been a Rush fan for ages, although I must admit that after about maybe 1992, their studio output fails to interest me very much. Nevertheless, an archival or live release like this is sure to astound! John Majka jmajk at indy.rr.com > >Where is Alex Lifeson? > > Well, he's in Canada getting ready to release their 3 CD/2DVD set > with such singalong songs like By-Thor and The Snow Dog, Cygnus X-1 > and Natural Science, the DVD also have a 1975 live recording of > Anthem. > > ------- > Moorbase Alpha - http://www.moll.pp.se/moor/ > The Moor at mp3.com - http://www.mp3.com/TheMoor From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Thu Sep 4 13:32:58 2003 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:32:58 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: >>> bishop.garden at FALKOPING.MAIL.TELIA.COM 09/04/03 12:51PM >>> >Where is Alex Lifeson? Well, he's in Canada getting ready to release their 3 CD/2DVD set with such singalong songs like By-Thor and The Snow Dog, Cygnus X-1 and Natural Science, the DVD also have a 1975 live recording of Anthem. Certainly a treat. Hope they didn't omit The Trees! theo From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Thu Sep 4 13:35:19 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:35:19 +0800 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but a friend told me Alex Lifeson does the music for the TV show Andromeda? William -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Kenneth Magnusson Sent: Friday, 5 September 2003 12:52 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists >Where is Alex Lifeson? Well, he's in Canada getting ready to release their 3 CD/2DVD set with such singalong songs like By-Thor and The Snow Dog, Cygnus X-1 and Natural Science, the DVD also have a 1975 live recording of Anthem. ------- Moorbase Alpha - http://www.moll.pp.se/moor/ The Moor at mp3.com - http://www.mp3.com/TheMoor From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Sep 4 14:30:00 2003 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Chris Allen) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:30:00 +0100 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: I should really practice my proof reading... ;> Ayup, last line was meant to read "I'm *not* actually very good at all", 'cos I'm not. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:04 PM Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists > In a message dated 9/4/2003 9:01:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, > beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > > I've been called "the best bassplayer in Northern Ireland" and "the finest > > bassist gigging around Belfast" simply because I use chords and stuff. I'm > > actually very good at all, I'm just not boring. > > > > hopefully there's a word missing from the last sentence above...? > 'not', perhaps? > pretty important word, that > bobm > From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Sep 4 14:38:25 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:38:25 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:58:22 CDT, Matthew Braun wrote: >According to: http://www.fuzzlogic.com/vdgg/juicy.htm, his name is _Glenn_ >(with two 'n's) Campbell, even though he's listed as only having 1 'n' >on album credits. The page says this of Juicy Lucy: > > Glenn 'Ross' Campbell gathered this gang soon after the end of > Misunderstood. Their debut single Who Do You Love (also recorded > by Misunderstood IV earlier) earned them a top 20 hit. Their > self titled album of rock, blues & boogie blend climbed to > no. 41 in the UK charts. Glenn left Juicy Lucy (III) in 1971 > before the 4th. and last album. > > Keith Ellis: Keith Ian Ellis stayed on in Juicy Lucy II in 1970 > (for one more album, Lie Back And Enjoy It), then played > sessions with Bobby Whitlock, Paul Williams (ex Juicy Lucy II), > joined Spooky Tooth in '74 and Boxer in '75. He died while on > tour with Iron Butterfly in Germany in 1978. Check out Peter > Hammill's Not For Keith (pH 7). Thanks for that. Although I'm even more confused now, as the album I have doesn't seem to be mentioned here. I think it must be the "self-titled" one, although the presence on the cover of a large cartoon pig with a speech balloon saying "Get A Whiff O'This!" always led me to believe that was the name of the album. I don't have it here to check but when I get back to the UK I'll have to dig it out and examine it more closely. No. 41 in the charts eh... not such a rarity after all. Nick From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Sep 4 14:50:58 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:50:58 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:38:25 -0400, Nick Medford wrote: > >Thanks for that. Although I'm even more confused now, as the album I have >doesn't seem to be mentioned here. I think it must be the "self-titled" >one Nope, I got it completely wrong. Should have Googled first: "Saucy blues-rockers Juicy Lucy formed in 1969 from the ashes of cult- favorite garage band the Misunderstood, reuniting vocalist Ray Owen, steel guitarist Glenn "Ross" Campbell and keyboardist Chris Mercer; with the additions of guitarist Neil Hubbard, bassist Keith Ellis and drummer Pete Dobson, the group immediately notched a UK Top 20 hit with their reading of the Bo Diddley perennial "Who Do You Love," with their self-titled debut LP falling just shy of the Top 40. Ex-Zoot Money singer Paul Williams, guitarist Mick Moody and drummer Rod Coombes replaced Owen (who exited for a solo career), Hubbard and Dobson for 1970's Lie Back and Enjoy It, with bassist Jim Leverton assuming Ellis' duties for the follow-up, 1971's Get a Whiff of This One. The constant turnover clearly took its toll on the group both creatively and commercially, with co-founders Campbell and Mercer both exiting prior to the fourth Juicy Lucy album, 1972's Pieces, which was recorded by a makeshift lineup of Williams, Moody, keyboardist Jean Roussal and the former Blodwyn Pig rhythm section of bassist Andy Pyle and drummer Ron Berg. Juicy Lucy finally disbanded shortly thereafter. ~ Jason Ankeny, All Music Guide" So the one I was talking about is their third. If anyone still cares. Nick From blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM Thu Sep 4 15:01:13 2003 From: blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM (Brian Halligan) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:01:13 -0400 Subject: OFF: Get a Whiff O' This (was 100 Greatest Guitarists) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nick Medford wrote: > the album I have > doesn't seem to be mentioned here. I think it must be the "self-titled" > one, although the presence on the cover of a large cartoon pig with a > speech balloon saying "Get A Whiff O'This!" always led me to believe that > was the name of the album. According to the All Music Guide (let us all genuflect), Get A Whiff O' This was Juicy Lucy's third album, released in 1971. There isn't any commentary, but All Music gives it a two-star rating out of five. Brian From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Sep 4 15:27:01 2003 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:27:01 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:37:07 -0400, Ted Jackson wrote: >>And, of course, for some of the most mind-blowing psychedelic >>steel guitar you'll ever hear, check out Glen Campbell's (no, >>not the country singer!) > >Yeah, well be careful how you approach the issue of Glenn Campbell >the 'country singer' Oops! I forget that the term "country singer" is generally considered an insult here on boc-l ;^). Not to me, however - I'm in one band that covers "Flying Doctor" AND "Ring Of Fire", and in another band that recently recorded a "Sister Ray"/"Saucerful of Secrets"-type spaced-out jam (complete with Miles/Ratledge-style organ, Dettmar/Blake synth noises & an Amon Du?l I -inspired percussion freakout) that segues directly into a country ballad (complete with lap steel, mournful fiddle, and Dixie Chicks-style [well, two girls and a boy] harmonies). >because he can absolutely crush 99% of all guitar players on this planet >regardless of genre. Maybe his music doesn't appeal to the august >members of this list, but the guy can play his ass off. In fact Glenn >should be on any list of 'great guitarists.' In a similar poll about a >year ago, they compiled a list of 100 greatest rock songs, and Glen had >played on about 10 of them as a studio musician! All true; he's eminently capable of playing jazz & rock, and played on most of the hits that came out of LA in the 1960's. He was even briefly a (touring-only) Beach Boy, so you know I gotta dig the guy! (But I still don't like his country stuff, even though I'm not prejudiced against the genre; as a singer/stylist, he's no Hank Williams or Johnny Cash.) And, as Nick mentioned, the Misunderstood / Juicy Lucy guy is Glenn Ross Campbell (two n's and middle name). On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:00:25 +0000, Zebulon Mysterioso wrote: >>Well ... one generally plays chords on both 6-string and steel guitars, >>but not on bass > > > >This is a sad fact that gets bassplayers a really bad name. Roots >notes and fifths just doesn't cut it! >I've been called "the best bassplayer in Northern Ireland" and "the >finest bassist gigging around Belfast" simply because I use chords >and stuff. I'm actually very good at all, I'm just not boring. > >Bass players - improve thyselves! Live not with the stygma of bass >playing being just a thing people who can't play guitar do! > > That's why I said "generally" :^) ... As a bassist, I have to say that I don't entirely agree. Yes, playing *exclusively* roots/fifths is usually pretty boring (although some songs do call for it), and stylistic variety is almost always a good thing. But I'm personally suspicious of a bassist who *refuses* to play simple/repetitive parts when a song (or section of a song) does call for such a part. I love playing the parts of songs where I get to play rhythms and melodies (and yes, even the occasional chord) counter to what the guitarist is doing, but I also love playing the parts where I just hammer out the rhythm on a single note while the guitarist does his thing; it's all about what works with the song ... But then again, nobody's ever called me the best bassist of anywhere, so it's quite possible that I'm talking out my ass ... it wouldn't be the first time ... -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Sep 4 15:36:28 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:36:28 -0400 Subject: OFF: Get a Whiff O' This (was 100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: I wrote: So the one I was talking about is their third. If anyone still cares. On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:01:13 -0400, Brian Halligan wrote: >According to the All Music Guide (let us all genuflect), Get A Whiff O' This >was Juicy Lucy's third album, released in 1971. Brian, you cared! I'm touched. Nick From blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM Thu Sep 4 15:59:07 2003 From: blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM (Brian Halligan) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:59:07 -0400 Subject: OFF: Get a Whiff O' This (was 100 Greatest Guitarists) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nick Medford wrote: > Brian, you cared! > > I'm touched. Hey, someone's got to give a damn. It may as well be me. It's been slow at work today.... Brian From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Thu Sep 4 17:38:49 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:38:49 -0400 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: I don't know Peter. Let's ask Colin ") ----- Original Message ----- From: "PETER WILKINSON" Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:54 AM Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists > yet another subjective discussion.........how does one differentiate? > 'greatest' does not neccessarily mean the most technically acomplished. e.g. > substitute 'greatest' for 'most influential' then perhaps rolling stone may > make more sense. having said that , possibly the most influential guitarist > in britain was bert weedon (seriously) because most old axe heads (richard , > clapton etc) will readily tetsify that they used his 'play in a day ' guitar > book to help them learn. > > peter From novadrive at COX.NET Thu Sep 4 18:26:12 2003 From: novadrive at COX.NET (KevinSommers) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:26:12 -0700 Subject: OFF Andy Pickford and Paul Nagle Message-ID: Since I'm assuming the Great North American Autumn Hawkwind Tour just isn't going to happen this year, I'm going to check out a show by Andy Pickford and Paul Nagle (known as Spank The Dark Monkey) at the National Space Centre in Leicester on the 27th of September. Information here: http://www.spankthedarkmonkey.co.uk/ and a review of their previous show with a sample here: http://www.synthmusicdirect.com/ramayana.cfm If there's any Hawkfans in the area who want to meet up (either for the show, or just for a pint or whatever), I'll be arriving on the 25th and flying back out the 2nd of October. KevinSommers "I remember a feeling of wanting more ? a need for excess ? an excess of fuzz, dirt, density, frying, moaning, tongue-speaking, burnt motor oil, white particles, rough mixes, and amnesia. There was a desire for those kind of things, but maybe not necessarily a direct seeking of those kind of things." - Clint Takeda From mr_ship at BELLSOUTH.NET Thu Sep 4 18:54:16 2003 From: mr_ship at BELLSOUTH.NET (Craig Shipley) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:54:16 -0400 Subject: OFF Andy Pickford and Paul Nagle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Speaking of Paul Nagle, you might want to check this page out: http://www.bogusfocus.com/jic/ (make sure you check out the mp3's!) Ship -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of KevinSommers Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 6:26 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: OFF Andy Pickford and Paul Nagle Since I'm assuming the Great North American Autumn Hawkwind Tour just isn't going to happen this year, I'm going to check out a show by Andy Pickford and Paul Nagle (known as Spank The Dark Monkey) at the National Space Centre in Leicester on the 27th of September. Information here: http://www.spankthedarkmonkey.co.uk/ and a review of their previous show with a sample here: http://www.synthmusicdirect.com/ramayana.cfm If there's any Hawkfans in the area who want to meet up (either for the show, or just for a pint or whatever), I'll be arriving on the 25th and flying back out the 2nd of October. KevinSommers "I remember a feeling of wanting more - a need for excess - an excess of fuzz, dirt, density, frying, moaning, tongue-speaking, burnt motor oil, white particles, rough mixes, and amnesia. There was a desire for those kind of things, but maybe not necessarily a direct seeking of those kind of things." - Clint Takeda From jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK Thu Sep 4 20:21:38 2003 From: jjarrett at CHIARK.GREENEND.ORG.UK (Jon Jarrett) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:21:38 +0100 Subject: HW : introductions In-Reply-To: <20030618115755.A7365@telepres.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Eric Siegerman wrote: > Back on the topic of the thread: I typically use Warrior and It > Is The Business -- I can never guess which one's going to appeal. > Except when I know the person's a rocker or a Motorhead fan, in > which case it's gotta be Space Ritual. (For a hard-core 80's > electrobeat fan, I'd probably try Quark -- but I don't tend to > travel in the same circles as them :-) I know one HW fan who only seems to actually own _Quark_ and claims she likes to use `Days of the Underground' as revision music. She is however a little odd, and is a major fan of a lot of things, which musically mostly include NWOBHM and power metal. So why _Quark_ and not _Chronicles of the Black Sword_ as she *should* do, I don't know :-) > I did work with someone in about '89-'90, who was a rabid > Depeche-Mode fan. He didn't take to HW at all ... but oddly > enough, he quite liked Hype. No, I can see that, I've thought before now that _Hype_ would go down well with the bouncier end of the goth crowd, the so-called `perkies', though I've yet to try this out in scientific test conditions... Some very New Wave stuff on there. Yours, Jon ObCD: Orbital - _CD_ -- "If you are rich, throw away your documents. If you are poor, do so also." (Egyptian proverb) Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Fri Sep 5 01:22:16 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 06:22:16 +0100 Subject: Spank the Dark Monkey Message-ID: Damn - I'll be at the Space centre earlier that week but not then. (Sadly, I'm going as part of a conference on Safe Routes To Schools rather than to see any musical extravaganza!) :-( (And I thought Beer Powered Noise Frenzy was a great name for a band - but I take my hat off to these guys!) ;-) Cheers, Rich. > Since I'm assuming the Great North American Autumn Hawkwind Tour just isn't > going to happen this year, I'm going to check out a show by Andy Pickford > and Paul Nagle (known as Spank The Dark Monkey) at the National Space Centre > in Leicester on the 27th of September. Information here: > http://www.spankthedarkmonkey.co.uk/ From petertrance at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Sep 5 04:09:33 2003 From: petertrance at HOTMAIL.COM (PETER WILKINSON) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:09:33 +0000 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: I'm for that drider 'Colin, what do you think?' peter >From: DRider >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists >Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:38:49 -0400 > >I don't know Peter. Let's ask Colin ") > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "PETER WILKINSON" >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:54 AM >Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists > > > > yet another subjective discussion.........how does one differentiate? > > 'greatest' does not neccessarily mean the most technically acomplished. >e.g. > > substitute 'greatest' for 'most influential' then perhaps rolling stone >may > > make more sense. having said that , possibly the most influential >guitarist > > in britain was bert weedon (seriously) because most old axe heads >(richard >, > > clapton etc) will readily tetsify that they used his 'play in a day ' >guitar > > book to help them learn. > > > > peter _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Fri Sep 5 11:24:56 2003 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:24:56 +0200 Subject: OFF: ST-37 note... Message-ID: Message from Scott Telles...FYI... Oh, BTW, once there was a question about a particular CD-R that I was talking about, but couldn't remember the name of...OK, the title was (and still is, as a matter of fact) "Nunavut." Which I believe was once part of the Northwest Territories, the other part of which was very nearly on its way to becoming known simply as "Bob" until they decided to not rename it at all. And I am not sure about the history of the Secret Society LP (ie., whether it was 'collected-up outtakes' or what have you), but only that it seemed to be released out-of-order given the particular style and also the lineup of musicians being an 'earlier' one. Grakkl (FAA), who thinks more people should play bass guitars like rhythm guitar, and who's disappointed that BBC Prime yanked off Red Dwarf just when I was starting to get into it, with Kryton becoming the star of the show (IMHO)..."Rimmer, Sir, don't be such a SMMMMEEEEE....HHHEEEEEEEEE...." OK, *now* the message from Scott. ----------------------------------------------------------- Hello all! We wanted to thank all of you for helping us on our way on the tour this summer. We had a great time, it was groovy, and we'll hafta do it again sometime! Big ups to Eric Arn and Primordial Undermind, Bahrain, the Ponys, Chris Davis, Bardo Pond, Pengo, Linus Pauling Quartet and all the other bands that we played with and the swell folks we met who let us crash in their spaces. We also wanted to draw your attention to our wondrously updated website www.st37.com which is really looking sparkly and new thanks to the expert administration of our webmistress, the fabulous Cathy Ross, who has : -added a purchase page separate from the discography where you can go to buy stuff -fully updated everything added a guestbook (please come sign it!) and a counter -posted new MP3s including two completely unreleased tracks unavailable elsewhere -stocked up the pictures and posters department -made everything look bettah! So, check it out if you get a chance. Thanks again for your support. -yer pals at ST 37 PO Box 4962, Austin, TX 78765 http://www.geocities.com/bahrainrock From Alan_Taylor at MADASAFISH.COM Fri Sep 5 13:19:10 2003 From: Alan_Taylor at MADASAFISH.COM (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:19:10 +0100 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: Hey folks, since you mention Rush..... I've been looking to pass on a Rush live show, from 12/07/91 - Madison Square Garden NYC. Excellent quality. It's on 2 CDRs, is compressed into .shn files, and has artwork with it. All you have to do with it is decompress the shn files and burn them to audio. It's free to the first person (anywhere in the world) to respond off list. Then you can pass it on. And so it goes. Cheers Alan p.s. John, I was the same with Rush in that I lost interest after 1991, but Vapor Trails is a hell of an album. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Majka" To: Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 6:31 PM Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists > Well that sounds exciting. I've been a Rush fan for ages, although I must > admit that after about maybe 1992, their studio output fails to interest me > very much. Nevertheless, an archival or live release like this is sure to > astound! > John Majka > jmajk at indy.rr.com From Alan_Taylor at MADASAFISH.COM Fri Sep 5 14:31:53 2003 From: Alan_Taylor at MADASAFISH.COM (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:31:53 +0100 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: OK, the Rush CDs are claimed, well done Chip. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Taylor" To: Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 6:19 PM Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists > Hey folks, since you mention Rush..... > > I've been looking to pass on a Rush live show, from 12/07/91 - Madison > Square Garden NYC. Excellent quality. It's on 2 CDRs, is compressed into > .shn files, and has > artwork with it. All you have to do with it is decompress the shn files and > burn them to audio. > > It's free to the first person (anywhere in the world) to respond off list. > > Then you can pass it on. And so it goes. > > Cheers > Alan From Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Fri Sep 5 16:29:39 2003 From: Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (Andrew Garibaldi) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:29:39 +0100 Subject: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists Message-ID: Thank gawd for a half hour black and white video of the Allmans live with Duane back in the early days - if interested Doug, e mail me off list. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Pearson" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:08 AM Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists > On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:59:15 -0400, nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM wrote: > >Don't know how many of you have seen this, but Rolling Stone's new issue > >has the 100 greatest guitarists in rock. No Buck Dharma. In the top > >100. Disgusting. > > What's really disgusting is that my bandmate has seen both of the top two > guitarists at least twice (Jimi with the Soft Machine opening, Duane with > the bros. in a high school gym). BASTARD!!! From Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Fri Sep 5 16:32:32 2003 From: Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (Andrew Garibaldi) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:32:32 +0100 Subject: Motorhead Goes 'Stone Deaf' Message-ID: ...........and the best bit - there's one track from Lemmy with Hawkwind from a concert last year (or was it 2001) according to the review in today's Classic Rock magazine -anyone shed any light on this? Andy G ----- Original Message ----- From: "DRider" To: Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 11:37 PM Subject: HW: Motorhead Goes 'Stone Deaf' > Motorhead Goes 'Stone Deaf' With Box - from Billboard > > The output of legendary metal act Motorhead will be celebrated Oct. 7 with > the Metal-Is/Sanctuary release of the five-CD box set "Stone Deaf Forever!" > The first Motorhead-approved box set, "Stone Deaf" will feature 99 tracks > spanning the group's career. > From Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Fri Sep 5 16:35:41 2003 From: Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (Andrew Garibaldi) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:35:41 +0100 Subject: HW: Space Rock News - 19 August 2003 Message-ID: Oh yes - you should have had the e mail by now. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:26 AM Subject: Re: HW: Space Rock News - 19 August 2003 > Eric Siegerman writes: > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 06:35:08PM -0400, Tim wrote: > > > Daze of The Underground - A Tribute to Hawkwind > > > > With no fewer than four tracks by current or ex-members (4.5, if > > you want to make Keef blush and stammer a bit :-) How many bands > > would that happen to? > > So will Andy G be stocking ths one? > > FoFP From dplaw at IC24.NET Fri Sep 5 17:01:05 2003 From: dplaw at IC24.NET (Dave Law) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:01:05 -0400 Subject: HW: Fire - the Arthur Brown story Message-ID: i expect folks are already aware of this but yesterday i picked up the new Arthur Brown, best of "Fire - the story of" . of particular interest to Hawk fans will be the track Time Captives (not the HW version but very similar) which the band have been playing at most gigs for the last nine months or so, it also features the Canterbury fayre version of Silver Machine as well as The Gremlin (the song of) from Capt Lockheed. the other tracks cover a wide variety of styles from 60's psychedelia , Tom Jones style crooning to what could loosley be described as "experimental". for someone such as myself who was looking for a broad over view of the mans work i'd say that this is an ideal introduction. full details - FIRE - THE STORY OF ARTHUR BROWN Released on Castle Music, a division of Sanctuary Records Cat no - CMEDD 674 hope that may be of use to some of you regards dave From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Fri Sep 5 19:10:27 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:10:27 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: I don't know.... There's alot of great bassists out there.... Here's a few that spring to mind (in no certain order - well, the top four on the list are there for a reason ") Les Claypool Steve Harris Dave Holland Charles Mingus Dave Schools John Wetton Allen Woody John Paul Jones Jack Cassady Phil Lesh Bootsy Collins Geezer Butler Alan Davey Jack Bruce Flea Rob Wasserman Pete Way George Porter Roger Clover Geddy Lee Mike Watt Chris Squire Tony Levin Dennis Dunaway Billy Talbot Ross The Boss Oteil Burbridge Larry Graham John Entwistle Paul McCartney And there's plenty more..... So don't sell yourself short!! Bassists are unsung heroes and are in higher demand than guitarists. Peace, D PS many of the bassists listed above can be found playing on "The Deep End Volumes I & II" by Government Mule - featuring Warren Haynes - certainly worthy of being in the "Top 100 Guitarists" list! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zebulon Mysterioso" Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 9:00 AM Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists > >Well ... one generally plays chords on both 6-string and steel guitars, > >but not on bass > > > > This is a sad fact that gets bassplayers a really bad name. Roots notes and > fifths just doesn't cut it! > I've been called "the best bassplayer in Northern Ireland" and "the finest > bassist gigging around Belfast" simply because I use chords and stuff. I'm > actually very good at all, I'm just not boring. > > Bass players - improve thyselves! Live not with the stygma of bass playing > being just a thing people who can't play guitar do! > > From lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET Fri Sep 5 19:19:40 2003 From: lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET (Stephe Lindas) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:19:40 -0400 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Lemmy?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "DRider" To: Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 7:10 PM Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > I don't know.... > There's alot of great bassists out there.... > Here's a few that spring to mind > (in no certain order - well, the top four on the list are there for a reason > ") > > Les Claypool > Steve Harris > Dave Holland > Charles Mingus > Dave Schools > John Wetton > Allen Woody > John Paul Jones > Jack Cassady > Phil Lesh > Bootsy Collins > Geezer Butler > Alan Davey > Jack Bruce > Flea > Rob Wasserman > Pete Way > George Porter > Roger Clover > Geddy Lee > Mike Watt > Chris Squire > Tony Levin > Dennis Dunaway > Billy Talbot > Ross The Boss > Oteil Burbridge > Larry Graham > John Entwistle > Paul McCartney > > And there's plenty more..... > > So don't sell yourself short!! > > Bassists are unsung heroes and are in higher demand than guitarists. > > Peace, > > D > > PS many of the bassists listed above can be found playing on "The Deep End > Volumes I & II" by Government Mule - featuring Warren Haynes - certainly > worthy of being in the "Top 100 Guitarists" list! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zebulon Mysterioso" > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 9:00 AM > Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists > > > > >Well ... one generally plays chords on both 6-string and steel guitars, > > >but not on bass > > > > > > > > This is a sad fact that gets bassplayers a really bad name. Roots notes > and > > fifths just doesn't cut it! > > I've been called "the best bassplayer in Northern Ireland" and "the finest > > bassist gigging around Belfast" simply because I use chords and stuff. > I'm > > actually very good at all, I'm just not boring. > > > > Bass players - improve thyselves! Live not with the stygma of bass > playing > > being just a thing people who can't play guitar do! > > > > From Ilovemylife801 at AOL.COM Fri Sep 5 22:38:44 2003 From: Ilovemylife801 at AOL.COM (Ilovemylife801 at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:38:44 EDT Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Jeff Berlin From StevenTice at AOL.COM Fri Sep 5 23:18:22 2003 From: StevenTice at AOL.COM (StevenTice at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:18:22 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 09/05/2003 7:02:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Farflung at COMCAST.NET writes: I don't know.... There's alot of great bassists out there.... Here's a few that spring to mind You missed one of, if not THE, best contemporary bassists, Victor Wooten. I picked up the just-released Victor Wooten sheet music/tablature book. If you're in the mood for an in-depth study of extreme virtuosity, check it out. It was necessary to invent new tablature notation in order to accurately transcribe his techniques. There's a reason this guy's won Bass Player of the Year three times, whereas nobody else has won more than once. :-) SET From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Sat Sep 6 00:57:56 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 00:57:56 EDT Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/5/2003 7:19:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET writes: > Lemmy?? Well, maybe... first we have to define what we mean by bass player... sure Lem plays a bass guitar, but does that alone make him a bass player? is he playing bass? the man himself has said he is just playing rhythm guitar on his bass, and while it's pretty amazing to see and a mighty force to experience aurally, it isn't 'playing bass' as most would describe it. He refers to himself on the credits on many a M'head lp as simply 'Rhythm'. i don't think he belongs on that list because he's doing something other than what those others on the list do: playing 4-string rhythm guitar; i don't think he'd argue that. bobm From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Sep 6 03:39:10 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:39:10 +0100 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Hmm. I wouldn't have thought "Bass player" needed too much defining. "Person who plays a bass guitar" does it for me. If you're going to discount people who play the bass guitar in innovative ways, you can discount half of Mr Rider's list. Would you describe some of the things Les Claypool or Flea do with four strings as just "playing bass"? I'd like to nominate Stu Hamm and Billy Sheehan for the list - and in the just "playing bass" category, one Mr Philip Lynott. Oh, and Paul Simonon of the Clash, he can go in there too - for a man who couldn't play for toffee when the Clash started, he came on pretty well... :-) Oops - mustn't forget that fella, wotsisname in Blue Oyster Cult... What other comments have I got? Lessee... I thought Dave Holland was the drummer with Judas Priest. Presumably there's another one. Mark King? (Level 42) The man who brought "slap" bass to millions? I'd also argue that there are a few in that list who played bass in some great bands, but aren't exactly great bass players - Pete Way?! (Mind you, there's an argument that Ross The Boss doesn't fit into either category - unless you *really* like the Dictators. "DEATH TO FALSE METAL!!!") Who else? Jim Lea, no doubt. Jason Newstead (have you *heard* the first Flotsam and Jetsam album???!) I'll stop my ramblings now, as I've only just woken up and I need a good strong cup of tea. There should be enough contentious views in the above post to keep people going for a while. :-) Cheers, Rich. (Oh - what about that fella who plays bass for Beer Powered Noise Frenzy?) :-) And yer man (Chris Copper) in Scirocco Works has to get a mention for winning the award for "Scariest Picture Of A Bass Player On The Web". http://www.scirroco-works.co.uk/images/chriscopper.jpg (And for being the spitting image of the Kurgan, and being best man at my wedding!) (And being an ace bass player) > > > Lemmy?? > > Well, maybe... > first we have to define what we mean by bass player... > sure Lem plays a bass guitar, but does that alone make him a bass player? is > he playing bass? > the man himself has said he is just playing rhythm guitar on his bass, and > while it's pretty amazing to see and a mighty force to experience aurally, it > isn't 'playing bass' as most would describe it. He refers to himself on the > credits on many a M'head lp as simply 'Rhythm'. i don't think he belongs on that > list because he's doing something other than what those others on the list do: > playing 4-string rhythm guitar; i don't think he'd argue that. > bobm > > Les Claypool Steve Harris Dave Holland Charles Mingus Dave Schools John Wetton Allen Woody John Paul Jones Jack Cassady Phil Lesh Bootsy Collins Geezer Butler Alan Davey Jack Bruce Flea Rob Wasserman Pete Way George Porter Roger Clover Geddy Lee Mike Watt Chris Squire Tony Levin Dennis Dunaway Billy Talbot Ross The Boss Oteil Burbridge Larry Graham John Entwistle Paul McCartney From gg at NINJANET.COM Sat Sep 6 05:17:49 2003 From: gg at NINJANET.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:17:49 +0200 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) In-Reply-To: <103.3571fdfe.2c8ac354@aol.com> Message-ID: RMayo19761 wrote: > the man himself has said he is just playing rhythm guitar on his bass, and ok, he changed the role of the bass player in music! and the list miss Joey DeMaio and Cronos for the same reason! They were pioneers! And Steve DiGiorgio?? And Sean Malone? (ok I hate Cynic, but... ehi, he has the ball to play everything!) oh, but... ross the boss played the bass??? Is the same Ross the Boss (alias Rossano Funicella) of Manowar??? where did he play bass guitar?? ciao!, gg -- www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Sat Sep 6 08:30:45 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:30:45 EDT Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2003 3:40:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK writes: > Ross The Boss ...is a guitarist!! joey demayo: bassist in manowar mark mendoza: bassist in dictators my comments on 'playing-bass-or-not' were simply food for thought -bob m bassist his'self who's not sure he'd refer to Lem's approach as innovative... hmmm From gg at NINJANET.COM Sat Sep 6 08:52:16 2003 From: gg at NINJANET.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:52:16 +0200 Subject: alan davey album Message-ID: I found on a mailorder this album: ALAN "THE ELF" DAVEY - Chaos delight - BlackWidow*IT'00 Is the Alan Davey we know or only a omonimous? If is the real Ali, what kind of album is this? I've never heard before.. thanks to all ciao!, gg -- www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online From lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET Sat Sep 6 10:32:22 2003 From: lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET (Stephe Lindas) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:32:22 -0400 Subject: alan davey album Message-ID: Its definately our Alan and you should get it. If you like his work with Hawkwind and Bedouin you will be happy with it, although it doesn't sound like either band. Its definately space rock. Cheers Stephe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierluigi Fumi" To: Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 8:52 AM Subject: alan davey album > I found on a mailorder this album: > > ALAN "THE ELF" DAVEY - Chaos delight - BlackWidow*IT'00 > > Is the Alan Davey we know or only a omonimous? If is the real Ali, > what kind of album is this? I've never heard before.. > > thanks to all > > > ciao!, gg > > -- > www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine > www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online From gg at NINJANET.COM Sat Sep 6 10:36:50 2003 From: gg at NINJANET.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:36:50 +0200 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) In-Reply-To: <102.34f39194.2c8b2d75@aol.com> Message-ID: RMayo19761 wrote: > mark mendoza: bassist in dictators oh, I've seen Twisted Sister this summer with the classic lineup... they rulez, no way man. They are foridably great! Dee Snider is a great frontman!! If you can, go to see them. ciao!, gg -- www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online From gg at NINJANET.COM Sat Sep 6 10:40:53 2003 From: gg at NINJANET.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:40:53 +0200 Subject: alan davey album In-Reply-To: <19716505012.20030906145216@ninjanet.com> Message-ID: Pierluigi wrote: > I found on a mailorder this album: > ALAN "THE ELF" DAVEY - Chaos delight - BlackWidow*IT'00 ok no problem, i've found it on http://home.clara.net/adawson/index.html . but now the question is: is a goo album or i can leave it at the store? ciao!, gg -- www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online From gg at NINJANET.COM Sat Sep 6 10:48:39 2003 From: gg at NINJANET.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:48:39 +0200 Subject: alan davey album In-Reply-To: <001801c37483$af524c90$4450a944@amyandstephe> Message-ID: Stephe wrote: > Its definately our Alan and you should get it. If you like his work with > Hawkwind and Bedouin you will be happy with it, although it doesn't sound > like either band. Its definately space rock. Cheers Stephe I LOVE his work with hawkwind, but unfortunately i've never heard his bedouin... i'm looking for them on italian mailorder, but there's not the shadows of them... uff.. ciao!, gg -- www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online From hw at CY-B.ORG Sat Sep 6 11:05:22 2003 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:05:22 -0400 Subject: alan davey album Message-ID: Why not start at: http://www.bedouin.info/sales.htm www.bedouin.info is the official site for Bedouin information...... From chrisr at TIAC.NET Sat Sep 6 14:36:26 2003 From: chrisr at TIAC.NET (Chris Raymond) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:36:26 -0400 Subject: alan davey album In-Reply-To: <13123022073.20030906164053@ninjanet.com> Message-ID: I think it is boring. No where near as good as Captured Rotation. Chris -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Pierluigi Fumi Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 10:41 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: alan davey album Pierluigi wrote: > I found on a mailorder this album: > ALAN "THE ELF" DAVEY - Chaos delight - BlackWidow*IT'00 ok no problem, i've found it on http://home.clara.net/adawson/index.html . but now the question is: is a goo album or i can leave it at the store? ciao!, gg -- www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Sat Sep 6 15:12:07 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 03:12:07 +0800 Subject: alan davey album In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Being a fan of the TV show UFO, it is great for just that one track, which is a fantastic version of the theme. If you like the UFO TV theme, then it's worth it just for that. Otherwise, it's probably not a good as Captured Rotation. William -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Chris Raymond Sent: Sunday, 7 September 2003 2:36 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: alan davey album I think it is boring. No where near as good as Captured Rotation. Chris -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Pierluigi Fumi Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 10:41 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: alan davey album Pierluigi wrote: > I found on a mailorder this album: > ALAN "THE ELF" DAVEY - Chaos delight - BlackWidow*IT'00 ok no problem, i've found it on http://home.clara.net/adawson/index.html . but now the question is: is a goo album or i can leave it at the store? ciao!, gg -- www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Sep 6 16:17:31 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:17:31 +0100 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Hmm, maybe I can sign you up to my "Big Bottoms" project - first mooted on this list about five years ago... :-) Lem? Innovative? I think so - given that you were so quick to slate him for "not playing bass"! Cheers, Rich. > my comments on 'playing-bass-or-not' were simply food for thought > -bob m > bassist his'self > who's not sure he'd refer to Lem's approach as innovative... > hmmm > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Sep 6 16:20:49 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:20:49 +0100 Subject: OFF: Twisted ****ing Sister - WAS: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: "GOOD EVENING - WE ARE TWISTED ****ING SISTER - AND WE WANNA ROCK!!!" Top night out - many years ago, but an ace band. They rocked like, errr, b***ards! "Hey Dee, is that your ring Jeanies wearing?" "Uh-huh." "Bye the way - where d'ya meet her?" "I MET HER AT THE CANDY STORE..." One of the few cover versions that's better than the original. (Discuss!) :-) Cheers, Rich. > RMayo19761 wrote: > > > mark mendoza: bassist in dictators > > oh, I've seen Twisted Sister this summer with the classic lineup... they rulez, no way man. > They are foridably great! Dee Snider is a great frontman!! If you can, > go to see them. > > ciao!, gg > > > > > > > -- > www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine > www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Sep 6 16:22:02 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:22:02 +0100 Subject: alan davey album Message-ID: > Pierluigi wrote: > > > I found on a mailorder this album: > > > ALAN "THE ELF" DAVEY - Chaos delight - BlackWidow*IT'00 > > > ok no problem, i've found it on > http://home.clara.net/adawson/index.html . > > but now the question is: is a goo album or i can leave it at the > store? Nope - as with most CDs it's quite solid. Drop it on its edge and it won't break. Quite firm really. Certainly not goo. ;-) Cheers, Rich. From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Sat Sep 6 16:43:26 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:43:26 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: he is killer - to be sure fortunately - he is playing the musical abyss that is Jacksonville, FL soon so I won't have to travel..... also, I did not intentionally leave off Lemmy or Vic I was just getting things started ") D NP - Nektar - Journey To The Centre....... ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 11:18 PM Subject: Re: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > In a message dated 09/05/2003 7:02:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Farflung at COMCAST.NET writes: > I don't know.... > There's alot of great bassists out there.... > Here's a few that spring to mind > > You missed one of, if not THE, best contemporary bassists, Victor Wooten. I > picked up the just-released Victor Wooten sheet music/tablature book. If > you're in the mood for an in-depth study of extreme virtuosity, check it out. It > was necessary to invent new tablature notation in order to accurately > transcribe his techniques. There's a reason this guy's won Bass Player of the Year > three times, whereas nobody else has won more than once. :-) > > SET From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Sat Sep 6 17:00:03 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:00:03 -0400 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Billy Sheehan started out w/ promise. Even though the song-writing for Talas was weak, his playing was strong.. I lost track of him..... What's he up to.....? Phil Lynott - a great bassist and great song-writer too. Paul Simonon - anyone know where I can find a copy of Sandinista! on CD? New - used - I don't care - I have been looking for it (unsuccessfully) for many years! Dave Holland was a jazz great. Bitches Brew anyone? I don't know, IMHO Pete Way is underrated. > Who else? Jim Lea, no doubt. Jason Newstead (have you *heard* the first > Flotsam and Jetsam album???!) Doomsday For The Deceiver - right? Yeah, I got it. Played the hell out of it when it came out. His playing w/ Metallica was good on "And Justice For All" - but the stuff after that is mostly crap. Playing in the shadow of Cliff was no easy task. Cliff was great! Stanley Clarke anyone?? D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Lockwood" Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 3:39 AM Subject: Re: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > Hmm. I wouldn't have thought "Bass player" needed too much defining. > "Person who plays a bass guitar" does it for me. If you're going to > discount people who play the bass guitar in innovative ways, you can > discount half of Mr Rider's list. Would you describe some of the things Les > Claypool or Flea do with four strings as just "playing bass"? > > I'd like to nominate Stu Hamm and Billy Sheehan for the list - and in the > just "playing bass" category, one Mr Philip Lynott. Oh, and Paul Simonon of > the Clash, he can go in there too - for a man who couldn't play for toffee > when the Clash started, he came on pretty well... :-) Oops - mustn't > forget that fella, wotsisname in Blue Oyster Cult... > > What other comments have I got? Lessee... I thought Dave Holland was the > drummer with Judas Priest. Presumably there's another one. > > Mark King? (Level 42) The man who brought "slap" bass to millions? > > I'd also argue that there are a few in that list who played bass in some > great bands, but aren't exactly great bass players - Pete Way?! > > (Mind you, there's an argument that Ross The Boss doesn't fit into either > category - unless you *really* like the Dictators. "DEATH TO FALSE > METAL!!!") > > Who else? Jim Lea, no doubt. Jason Newstead (have you *heard* the first > Flotsam and Jetsam album???!) > > I'll stop my ramblings now, as I've only just woken up and I need a good > strong cup of tea. There should be enough contentious views in the above > post to keep people going for a while. :-) > > Cheers, > > Rich. From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Sep 6 16:59:34 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:59:34 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:10:27 -0400, DRider wrote: >I don't know.... >There's alot of great bassists out there.... >Here's a few that spring to mind >(in no certain order - well, the top four on the list are there for a reason Er... hasn't anyone on this list heard of Jaco Pastorius?? To have a list of 100 great bassists and not include him is a major oversight. In fact, to have a list of THREE great bassists and not include him would be a major oversight! Many musicians regard him as the greatest bass player of all time, far ahead of anyone else, in much the same way that Hendrix is commonly regarded as way out in front of all other guitarists. What else? Well, Adrian Shaw would be on my list. And I have to agree with Rich that some of these are selected from bands you (DRider) presumably like, which is understandable, but some of them really aren't exceptional players. Roger Glover? Paul McCartney? PETE WAY??!! OTOH, while I can't stand Iron Maiden, I'll concede that Steve Harris is a fine bassist. Nick From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Sat Sep 6 17:33:43 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:33:43 EDT Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2003 4:18:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK writes: > given that you were so quick to slate him > for "not playing bass"! > never said that; was just asking what we all thought bass playing was, and whether Lem fit into that definition, and if so, where... bobm From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Sat Sep 6 17:39:14 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:39:14 EDT Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2003 4:51:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, Farflung at COMCAST.NET writes: > His playing w/ Metallica was good on "And Justice For > All" - how can you tell?????? bobm From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Sat Sep 6 17:49:39 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:49:39 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2003 4:59:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > What else? Bob Daisly is an overlooked, underrated GENIUS laff if you like, but listen to his work on Ozzy's 'Diary of a Madman' and tell me he's not a MASTER of the creative arrangement. His work on that record rates him as the secret weapon that every heavy rock band since '82 has been sorely missing. more? John Wetton Cliff Williams (that's not easy, you know...) Ian Hill (ditto) Martin Turner Kenny Aaronson Any one ever hear Jeff Berlin's version of Cream's 'Crossroads'? he plays all of Clapton's guitar solos NOTE_FOR_NOTE///// You simply have to hear it sometime Ya know, we really ought to be talking about 'rhythm sections' here, not just bassists; for what is a bassist without a drummer? (*rhetorical question!*) bobm From Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Sat Sep 6 18:27:20 2003 From: Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (Andrew Garibaldi) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:27:20 +0100 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Not forgetting the phenomenal bassists that were the mob that belonged to Magma in the 70's and early 80's notably Top,Paganotti, and the other two whose names escape me. Outside of that, my fave bass-led track still has to be Stanley Clarke's "School Days" -still sounds great all these years later. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DRider" To: Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 12:10 AM Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > I don't know.... > There's alot of great bassists out there.... > Here's a few that spring to mind > (in no certain order - well, the top four on the list are there for a reason > ") > > Les Claypool > Steve Harris > Dave Holland > Charles Mingus > Dave Schools > John Wetton > Allen Woody > John Paul Jones > Jack Cassady > Phil Lesh > Bootsy Collins > Geezer Butler > Alan Davey > Jack Bruce > Flea > Rob Wasserman > Pete Way > George Porter > Roger Clover > Geddy Lee > Mike Watt > Chris Squire > Tony Levin > Dennis Dunaway > Billy Talbot > Ross The Boss > Oteil Burbridge > Larry Graham > John Entwistle > Paul McCartney > > And there's plenty more..... > > So don't sell yourself short!! > > Bassists are unsung heroes and are in higher demand than guitarists. > > Peace, > > D > > PS many of the bassists listed above can be found playing on "The Deep End > Volumes I & II" by Government Mule - featuring Warren Haynes - certainly > worthy of being in the "Top 100 Guitarists" list! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zebulon Mysterioso" > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 9:00 AM > Subject: Re: OFF: 100 Greatest Guitarists > > > > >Well ... one generally plays chords on both 6-string and steel guitars, > > >but not on bass > > > > > > > > This is a sad fact that gets bassplayers a really bad name. Roots notes > and > > fifths just doesn't cut it! > > I've been called "the best bassplayer in Northern Ireland" and "the finest > > bassist gigging around Belfast" simply because I use chords and stuff. > I'm > > actually very good at all, I'm just not boring. > > > > Bass players - improve thyselves! Live not with the stygma of bass > playing > > being just a thing people who can't play guitar do! > > > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Sep 6 18:42:30 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:42:30 +0100 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: > > Paul Simonon - anyone know where I can find a copy of Sandinista! on CD? > New - used - I don't care - I have been looking for it (unsuccessfully) for > many years! > Dunno - but I used to work with his sister - I'll ask her! :-) Cheers, Rich. From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Sep 6 18:44:22 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:44:22 +0100 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: How could I forget Mr Pastorius??! Major oversight on my part! Hope the States is treating you well Nick - whereabouts are you? Cheers, Rich. (And what did you think of The Bristols?!) :-) > > >I don't know.... > >There's alot of great bassists out there.... > >Here's a few that spring to mind > >(in no certain order - well, the top four on the list are there for a > reason > > Er... hasn't anyone on this list heard of Jaco Pastorius?? > > To have a list of 100 great bassists and not include him is a major > oversight. In fact, to have a list of THREE great bassists and not include > him would be a major oversight! > > Many musicians regard him as the greatest bass player of all time, far > ahead of anyone else, in much the same way that Hendrix is commonly > regarded as way out in front of all other guitarists. > > What else? Well, Adrian Shaw would be on my list. And I have to agree with > Rich that some of these are selected from bands you (DRider) presumably > like, which is understandable, but some of them really aren't exceptional > players. Roger Glover? Paul McCartney? PETE WAY??!! OTOH, while I can't > stand Iron Maiden, I'll concede that Steve Harris is a fine bassist. > > Nick > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Sep 6 18:45:41 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:45:41 +0100 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: I always thought that "justice" sucked d1ck in hell. Mind you, so did every Metallica album after "Master of Puppets" Just my 2p worth. :-) Cheers, Rich. > > > His playing w/ Metallica was good on "And Justice For > > All" - > > how can you tell?????? > bobm > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Sep 6 18:46:19 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:46:19 +0100 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: > > Ya know, we really ought to be talking about 'rhythm sections' here, not just > bassists; for what is a bassist without a drummer? (*rhetorical question!*) > Friendless? ;-) Cheers, Rich. From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Sat Sep 6 18:52:24 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:52:24 +0100 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Mm. If I recall, that's the way that it is.... (I was going to make a really long and convoluted Uriah Heep joke there (as opposed to the very small one above), something about Wizards, Demons and being very 'umble, until I remembered he didn't join until Abominog. Arse.) :-) Cheers, RIch. > Bob Daisly is an overlooked, underrated GENIUS From lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET Sat Sep 6 19:09:45 2003 From: lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET (Stephe Lindas) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 19:09:45 -0400 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Thats right. Never should have ousted Dave Mustaine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Lockwood" To: Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 6:45 PM Subject: Re: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > I always thought that "justice" sucked d1ck in hell. Mind you, so did every > Metallica album after "Master of Puppets" > > Just my 2p worth. > > :-) > > Cheers, > > Rich. > > > > > > > His playing w/ Metallica was good on "And Justice For > > > All" - > > > > how can you tell?????? > > bobm > > > > From mr_ship at BELLSOUTH.NET Sat Sep 6 22:02:58 2003 From: mr_ship at BELLSOUTH.NET (Craig Shipley) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 22:02:58 -0400 Subject: OT: Sandinista! In-Reply-To: <007901c374c8$28280b20$e42d9fd4@brian> Message-ID: Did you try Amazon? As of two minutes ago, here are new two copies available and a boatload of used ones, starting at under US$10. Ship -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Richard Lockwood Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 6:43 PM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > > Paul Simonon - anyone know where I can find a copy of Sandinista! on CD? > New - used - I don't care - I have been looking for it (unsuccessfully) for > many years! > Dunno - but I used to work with his sister - I'll ask her! :-) Cheers, Rich. From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Sep 6 22:33:55 2003 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Chris Allen) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 03:33:55 +0100 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: We're heading for a stand-off here..!!! From: > for what is a bassist without a drummer? (*rhetorical question!*) From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Sun Sep 7 11:43:25 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:43:25 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) In-Reply-To: <01a801c37402$e56405c0$3b40b142@se1.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 07:10:27PM -0400, DRider wrote: => I don't know.... => There's alot of great bassists out there.... [...] => Allen Woody Seconded!! "Couldn't hire 25 men to do what the man could do." Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Sun Sep 7 16:41:14 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:41:14 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: the whole idea was to generate discussion Paul McCartney not a great bassist? OK, whatever how many bands w/ a great guitarist have made it w/ only a mediocre bass player?? I can only think of one off the top of my head - Van Halen and they have not been doin too well for quite a while...... say what you want about Pete Way, but he did a fine job w/ Michael Schenker a guitarist that certainly is better than Eddie Van Halen Pete Way - not great - OK but he can play bass better than Michael Anthony in his sleep So my list sucks because I did not put Jaco Pastorious on it? it would not lead to much discussion if I put everyone on it would it? Adrian Shaw - better than Pete Way? OK sure Better than Paul McCartney - never!! 3 great bassists? OK, here's mine in order: 1) Jaco Pastorius 2) Mingus 3) Les Claypool put that in your pipe and smoke it ") D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Medford" Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 4:59 PM Subject: Re: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:10:27 -0400, DRider wrote: > > >I don't know.... > >There's alot of great bassists out there.... > >Here's a few that spring to mind > >(in no certain order - well, the top four on the list are there for a > reason > > Er... hasn't anyone on this list heard of Jaco Pastorius?? > > To have a list of 100 great bassists and not include him is a major > oversight. In fact, to have a list of THREE great bassists and not include > him would be a major oversight! > > Many musicians regard him as the greatest bass player of all time, far > ahead of anyone else, in much the same way that Hendrix is commonly > regarded as way out in front of all other guitarists. > > What else? Well, Adrian Shaw would be on my list. And I have to agree with > Rich that some of these are selected from bands you (DRider) presumably > like, which is understandable, but some of them really aren't exceptional > players. Roger Glover? Paul McCartney? PETE WAY??!! OTOH, while I can't > stand Iron Maiden, I'll concede that Steve Harris is a fine bassist. > > Nick From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Sep 7 17:38:53 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 17:38:53 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:41:14 -0400, DRider wrote: >the whole idea was to generate discussion Well, sure. That's exactly what I and others were doing- discussing it. > >Paul McCartney not a great bassist? > >OK, whatever Well we will have to agree to differ on that. I love the Beatles, they are one of my favourite bands. They changed the face of music forever, and left behind an extraordinary body of work ranging from perfect pop to audacious avant-garde experiments. I love them. They were great songwriters, lyricists, arrangers, you name it. But they were most certainly not virtuoso musicians. > >how many bands w/ a great guitarist have made it w/ only a mediocre bass >player?? > >I can only think of one off the top of my head - Van Halen I wouldn't know, I've never had any interest in them. > >and they have not been doin too well for quite a while...... > >say what you want about Pete Way, but he did a fine job w/ Michael Schenker >a guitarist that certainly is better than Eddie Van Halen > >Pete Way - not great - OK >but he can play bass better than Michael Anthony in his sleep > >So my list sucks because I did not put Jaco Pastorious on it? Where did I say that? I merely expressed surprise that, after a number of posts on great bassists, no-one had mentioned him. > >it would not lead to much discussion if I put everyone on it >would it? I don't really understand this defensiveness- you post something to generate discussion, people are interested, they discuss it... er... everyone's happy right? Anyway I thought of two more who'd be on my list- Holger Czukay and Bill Laswell. Nick From jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM Sun Sep 7 18:02:23 2003 From: jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM (Jerry Kranitz) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:02:23 -0400 Subject: OFF: Aural Innovations: New Reviews & Radio shows Message-ID: http://Aural-Innovations.com Announcements (September 7, 2003): We've just uploaded the following new REVIEWS and RADIO shows. Visit the What's New page at http://aural-innovations.com/main/whatsnew.html for links to all the new reviews. Thanks to Frank Gingeleit, Jill Strobridge, Andy Madden, Jeff Fitzgerald, and The New Digital Sound (Don Smith) for their contributions. New in stock at the Aural Innovations mail order catalog: Simon House & Rod Goodway - "House Of Dreams" (Limited quantities. Email to reserve.) Visit our mail order catalog at: http://aural-innovations.com/mailord/mailord.html Strange Trips has setup an excellent info packed Harvey Bainbridge web site. Check it out at: http://harvey.strange-trips.com Reviews: Alien Dream at Hawkfest 2003: Lancashire, UK, August 8-10, 2003 Mr Quimby's Beard + Harvey Bainbridge, Manor Quay, August 23, 2003 Raymond Franks: 1957-2003 (Obituary) Common Ground retrospective (with Raymond Franks) Junkyard Genius reviews University Of Errors - "Ugly Music For Monica" Charles Rice Goff III & Mikadams - "Pepper Overboard" Comets on Fire - "s/t" Comets on Fire - "Field Recordings From the Sun" Kraan - "Through" Paul Edwards - "To 6 Billion" New Radio Shows. You can go directly to the Radio Shows page at http://aural-innovations.com/radio/radio.html Aural Innovations Space Rock Radio (show #87): General Playlist Marcel van Dam - "Calvert Intro" (unreleased) Alpha Omega - "The Pythia" (from Live at Terra Australis 2002) Man In Space - "Man In Space" (from For Medicinal Use Only) University Of Errors - "Earthbound" (from Ugly Music for Monica) Census Of Hallucinations - "Feel It" (from The 8th Dwarf) The Psychedelic Breakfast - "I Became The Light" (from In Uncle Sam's Basement Emporium) Helios Creed - "Die To Fly" (from Spider Prophecy) The Electric Family - "Space Caravan" (from Family Show) Shiny Gnomes - "You Live In A Dream" (from Cowboys Of Peace Live 2002) Rollerball - "Mike's Hind" (from Real Hair) The Twin Atlas - "It Will Pass" (from Inside The Skate Scandal) Marcel van Dam - "Marszoo" (unreleased) Sloterdijk - "Fred Goldman's Moustache" (from Integration) Ole Lukkoye - "Ikar's Flight" (from Dream Of The Wind: 1989-1991) The Atomic Bongload (show #2) Sonic Flower - "Black Sunshine" (from Sonic Flower) The Hidden Hand - "The Last Tree" (from Divine Propaganda) Buffalo - "El Peregrino" (from Temporada de Huracanes) ST 37 - "Daniel Said" (from Down On Us) E.X.P. - E.X.P. And The Masticators Of Frequencies Part Two (from Pachamama) Hainloose - "Ladies First" (from Rosula) Pharoah Overlord - "Landslide Non Stop" (from #1) AcidGuitarKing - "Grave Voice" (from 9) Monoton - "Saddle" (from Wrong Side Of The Rodeo) Fooz - "Alone You Stand" (from Fooz) Ichabod - "John Rocker" (from Let The Bad Times Roll) Farflung - "The Day Of St. Anthony's Fire" (from The Belief Module) http://Aural-Innovations.com From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Sep 7 18:02:46 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:02:46 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:49:39 EDT, RMayo19761 at AOL.COM wrote: >In a message dated 9/6/2003 4:59:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, >nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > >> What else? > >Bob Daisly is an overlooked, underrated GENIUS >laff if you like, but listen to his work on Ozzy's 'Diary of a Madman' and >tell me he's not a MASTER of the creative arrangement. His work on that record >rates him as the secret weapon that every heavy rock band since '82 has been >sorely missing. >more? >John Wetton >Cliff Williams (that's not easy, you know...) >Ian Hill (ditto) >Martin Turner >Kenny Aaronson OK, I can't really debate this, as I'm not a fan of most "classic" HM/hard rock, in fact to be honest I strongly dislike a lot of it. The only bands I really like who might fit into that genre would be Sabbath (who, in their 70s heyday at least, I always thought of as having a strong psych edge that set them apart), Led Zep (who were so much more than just a hard rock band), and Motorhead. So I'm not really familiar with Daisley. Although I have heard that Ozzy album, and thought it was pretty good at the time, but that was at least 15 years ago, I don't remember it well enough to say anything here. I actually had to go onto Google to discover who Ian Hill and Cliff Williams are, stuff like Priest and AC/DC really isn't my thang... they both had their moments back in the day I suppose. I have no idea how good these guys are as instrumentalists. Nick From kkusic at EXECPC.COM Sun Sep 7 19:49:03 2003 From: kkusic at EXECPC.COM (Karen Kusic) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 19:49:03 -0400 Subject: OFF: Soundless Music Shown to Produce Weird Sensations Message-ID: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=1&u=/nm/20030907/sc_nm/science_sound_dc Soundless Music Shown to Produce Weird Sensations By Patricia Reaney MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) - Mysteriously snuffed out candles, weird sensations and shivers down the spine may not be due to the presence of ghosts in haunted houses but to very low frequency sound that is inaudible to humans. British scientists have shown in a controlled experiment that the extreme bass sound known as infrasound produces a range of bizarre effects in people including anxiety, extreme sorrow and chills -- supporting popular suggestions of a link between infrasound and strange sensations. "Normally you can't hear it," Dr Richard Lord, an acoustic scientist at the National Physical Laboratory in England who worked on the project, said Monday. Lord and his colleagues, who produced infrasound with a seven meter (yard) pipe and tested its impact on 750 people at a concert, said infrasound is also generated by natural phenomena. "Some scientists have suggested that this level of sound may be present at some allegedly haunted sites and so cause people to have odd sensations that they attribute to a ghost -- our findings support these ideas," said Professor Richard Wiseman, a psychologist at the University of Hertfordshire in southern England. In the first controlled experiment of infrasound, Lord and Wiseman played four contemporary pieces of live music, including some laced with infrasound, at a London concert hall and asked the audience to describe their reactions to the music. The audience did not know which pieces included infrasound but 22 percent reported more unusual experiences when it was present in the music. Their unusual experiences included feeling uneasy or sorrowful, getting chills down the spine or nervous feelings of revulsion or fear. "These results suggest that low frequency sound can cause people to have unusual experiences even though they cannot consciously detect infrasound," said Wiseman, who presented his findings to the British Association science conference. Infrasound is also produced by storms, seasonal winds and weather patterns and some types of earthquakes (news - web sites). Animals such as elephants also use infrasound to communicate over long distances or as weapons to repel foes. "So much has been said about infrasound -- it's been associated with just about everything from beam weapons to bad driving. It's wonderful to be able to examine the evidence," said Sarah Angliss, a composer and engineer who worked on the project. From nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM Sun Sep 7 22:36:42 2003 From: nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM (nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:36:42 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: By my own admission, I bring NOTHING to the table in terms of this discussion. All I'll say from the standpoint of a guy who listens to music with a far more casual and less investigative ear than most of you is that the one bassist who really stands out to me as doing something that really sets him apart is Lemmy. Not much of an analysis, I know. But I figured I had to feed the kitty before I asked my question, which is. . . I saw Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe back in the late '80s, and their bass player was a bald guy. . . I think it was Tony Levin. . . ??? Anyway, from what I can remember. . . and there is a haze over the memory, I'll admit. . . he was wearing these silver extensions on his fingers (excluding thumb). It almost looked like a Freddy Kreuger thing, and instead of picking or plucking, he was just kind of tapping on the strings with these. Am I remembering this correctly? I'd never seen anyone do this before, and I've never seen it since, and I'm not 100% sure I saw it correctly anyway.. I don't know. Anybody? --The Other Nick From StevenTice at AOL.COM Sun Sep 7 23:39:04 2003 From: StevenTice at AOL.COM (StevenTice at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:39:04 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 09/07/2003 10:37:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM writes: Not much of an analysis, I know. But I figured I had to feed the kitty before I asked my question, which is. . . I saw Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe back in the late '80s, and their bass player was a bald guy. . . I think it was Tony Levin. . . ??? Anyway, from what I can remember. . . and there is a haze over the memory, I'll admit. . . he was wearing these silver extensions on his fingers (excluding thumb). It almost looked like a Freddy Kreuger thing, and instead of picking or plucking, he was just kind of tapping on the strings with these. Am I remembering this correctly? I'd never seen anyone do this before, and I've never seen it since, and I'm not 100% sure I saw it correctly anyway.. I don't know. Anybody? Yup, that's Tony Levin...they're called "Funk Fingers," and Tony even describes (with diagrams) how to make them in his book, Beyond the Bass Clef. He credits Peter Gabriel with the suggestion of attaching drumsticks to his fingers. You can see these things in action on the King Crimson DVD released a couple of years ago (Tony sure gets around, doesn't he? :-). Steven Tice Calliope Comics 519 Valentine Hill Road Bellefonte, PA 16823 814-355-9830 Musings Online: http://javapadawan.com/calliope/ From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Sun Sep 7 23:52:15 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:52:15 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/7/2003 6:03:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > I have no idea how good > these guys are as instrumentalists. > well, now you have more of an idea than you had a few days ago... :-) bobm From t.byrne at NTLWORLD.COM Mon Sep 8 01:51:48 2003 From: t.byrne at NTLWORLD.COM (Tom Byrne) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 01:51:48 -0400 Subject: OFF: Aural Innovations: New Reviews & Radio shows Message-ID: Many thanks to Andy Madden (author), Keith Henderson (photo) and Jerry Kranitz (editor) of Aural Innovations for such a comprehensive and flattering piece on the Alien Dream gig at Hawkfest and my projects. What fine chaps. Thanks also to Michael Blackman for agreeing to the Alien Dream Live duo. It was tremendous to play at Hawkfest - I shall always remember it. Thanks of course to Colin, Kris, Tone, the Hawks & all involved for mounting such a spectacular and high quality event I'm in such a good mood that if anyone emails me at thelastdruids at hotmail.com (that's thelastdruids plural) or tom at byrne86.freeserve.co.uk and mentions the review they can have either or both of my albums ("The Last Druids" and "The Eye of the Cyclone") at 1/2 price - ?5 or equivalent with a couple of quid or say $5 for post and packing. Regards Tom From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Mon Sep 8 07:22:44 2003 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:22:44 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: >>> Farflung at COMCAST.NET 09/05/03 07:10PM >>> I don't know.... There's alot of great bassists out there.... Here's a few that spring to mind (in no certain order - well, the top four on the list are there for a reason ") Hmmm...You seem to have forgotten Tim Bogert, the bassist without whom there'd be no Billy Sheehan... theo From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Mon Sep 8 07:47:22 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:47:22 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: > Anyway I thought of two more who'd be on my list- Holger Czukay and Bill > Laswell Bill Laswell - love his work w/ ekstasis > Well we will have to agree to differ on that. I love the Beatles, they are > one of my favorite bands. They changed the face of music forever, and left > behind an extraordinary body of work ranging from perfect pop to audacious > avant-garde experiments. I love them. They were great songwriters, > lyricists, arrangers, you name it. But they were most certainly not > virtuoso musicians.. you are talking about the Beatles and using the past tense I am talking just about McCartney and his career goes beyond the Beatles. He's still alive and made many great records after the Beatles. Some have asked: "What is hip?" I ask: "What is great?" If McCartney is not great, where does that put everyone else? Peace, D From erics at TELEPRES.COM Mon Sep 8 12:16:07 2003 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:16:07 -0400 Subject: OFF: Soundless Music Shown to Produce Weird Sensations In-Reply-To: ; from kkusic@EXECPC.COM on Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 07:49:03PM -0400 Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 07:49:03PM -0400, Karen Kusic wrote: > British scientists have shown in a controlled experiment that the extreme > bass sound known as infrasound produces a range of bizarre effects in people > including anxiety, extreme sorrow and chills -- supporting popular > suggestions of a link between infrasound and strange sensations. Do not waste time seeking a high-pass filter.... -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / When I came back around from the dark side, there in front of me would be the landing area where the crew was, and the Earth, all in the view of my window. I couldn't help but think that there in front of me was all of humanity, except me. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 Command Module Pilot From blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM Mon Sep 8 13:29:57 2003 From: blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM (Brian Halligan) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:29:57 -0400 Subject: BOC: Flat Out on CD Message-ID: This was in the latest dispatch from The Artist Shop http://www.artist-shop.com > Buck Dharma/Flat Out ....CD $12.99 > Buck Dharma was the lead guitarist for Blue Oyster Cult, one of the most > successful hard rock bands ever. He made only one solo album, Flat Out, in > 1982. Fans have been screaming for this, here it is! Really? I guess if silence can be called deafening.... Still, it's nice to see everything BOC-related is now available on CD. How does everyone here feel about Flat Out? I think of it mostly as a teaser for the change in direction the band would take with RBN and Club Ninja, which is probably why I'm not a big fan. I'd still rate it above Club Ninja on a "best album" list, as the second-worst BOC/related album. IMHO, today the band is miles beyond the era that Flat Out lead to. Brian From kalyr at CLARA.CO.UK Mon Sep 8 14:13:40 2003 From: kalyr at CLARA.CO.UK (Tim Hall) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:13:40 +0100 Subject: BOC: Flat Out on CD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brian Halligan wrote: > I think of it mostly as a teaser for the change in >direction the band would take with RBN and Club Ninja, which is probably why >I'm not a big fan. I'd still rate it above Club Ninja on a "best album" >list, as the second-worst BOC/related album. IMHO, today the band is miles >beyond the era that Flat Out lead to. I'd love to hear BOC play "Your Loving Heart", with Eric singing the "We have a donor" line. -- Tim Hall Weblog: http://www.kalyr.com/weblog Photos: http://kalyr.fotopic.net/ From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Mon Sep 8 16:07:29 2003 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:07:29 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:30:45 EDT, RMayo19761 at AOL.COM wrote: >In a message dated 9/6/2003 3:40:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, >rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK writes: > >> Ross The Boss > >...is a guitarist!! >joey demayo: bassist in manowar >mark mendoza: bassist in dictators Thanks for the correction, Bob, although it should be noted that Mark just filled-in on one 'tators album. The REAL Dictators bassist was, and still is (as of a month or two ago, when I last saw 'em), Andy/Adny Shernoff, who *definitely* belongs on the list! (And is also a fine keyboard player, which is what he was doing on the Mendoza-bassed Dictators album. And producer. And *killer* songwriter. And stands about 8 feet tall in his Converse All-Stars.) I would actually include Paul McCartney on the list for the same reason I'd include Ade Shaw - both have a flowing, melodic style that's aeons beyond simple root/fifth pounding, but is never showy or flashy; nimble, but not speedy. Unless you pay close attention, both played deceptively- simple-sounding lines. I'd even rate McCartney's post-Beatles bass playing as quite good, even though most of the music sucks (IMHO). Personally, I have zero interest in bassists I consider showy/flashy. I can appreciate the virtuosity of Stanley Clarke, Tony Levin, Billy Sheehan, Jeff Berlin, Victor Wooton, Jaco, and all the other players they drool about on 'The Bottom Line' (renowned bass player email list that has included Berlin [an egotistical asshole], Levin [a super-nice guy], and Mike Watt [even nicer guy], among its contributors), but their playing does little to move me, personally (in marked contrast to the two players I mention in the previous paragraph). Speaking of Mike Watt, it was very cool to see him playing in a more-restrained-than-usual manner when filling in for the late Dave Alexander in the Stooges reunion - if he had played "to his peak ability", he would have ruined their set, but the few extra fills and runs he added to Alexander's original lines all fit the songs perfectly (the Red Hot Chilli Peppers played immediately after them, and you can add Flea to my list of players that don't do much for me). But then again, I love Bootsy Collins & Larry Graham, so maybe I'm just a hypocrite (what else is new?). And John Entwistle (perhaps because he *didn't* seem so flashy in contrast to the other half of the classic Who rhythm section). And Jack Casady (but not Phil Lesh - great musician; rotten, or at least inappropriate, bassist, but don't get me started on the Dead's rhythm, or lack thereof, section). I'd also second Bob Daisley - if you like psych, but not metal, try to find the reissue of the Kahvas Jute album (the band he was in circa 1970/71, out on one of those Italian labels like Get Back or Akarma), or better yet, Mecca's (pre-Kahvas Jute) incredible "Black Sally" 7" ... not reissued AFAIK, but there's a great cover of the song done by New Zealand's Human Instinct that is, as the cliche goes, a psychedelic monster. For others in the metal arena, I'd definitely agree on Cliff Burton (not any subsequent Metallica bassists), but not Cliff Williams of AC/DC (at least not unless you're going to also include Dee Dee Ramone). I didn't see CAROL KAYE (the bass equivalent to Glen Campbell in that she played on nearly every hit to come out of LA in the sixties) on the list, so I'll add her. I wish I could think of more great female players (if anyone mentions Kims Gordon or Deal, I will laugh in your face - you may as well nominate Meg White as a great drummer), but I suppose PATRICIA Ramirez/Bag/MORRISON should at least be credited for having played in interesting/diverse bands (Bags, Gun Club, Damned, and those obnoxious Sisters) and KIRA ROESSLER held her own in Black Flag (and with Watt in Dos, neither one an easy task, although it sounds like being a female in Black Flag was as uncomfortable for her as for Bridget in Hawkwind). STEVE PRIEST of the Sweet (a personal guilty pleasure) was quite good (and deserves credit for singing tight harmonies while playing fast lines). TIM ALEE of the Pagans deserves mention for being one of the best bassists in a 1977-era punk act, as he was very much the melodic drive of that band. Victims Family may not be a household name (Bay Area hybrid band who have had several albums on Alternative Tentacles), but their bassist, LARRY BOOTHROYD, is outstanding; I was fortunate enough to play with him in the Devo tribute band Mongoloid recently - probably the best bassist I've ever worked with, although BARBARA MANNING (Terminalwasteband), despite being better-known as a singer/songwriter/guitarist, is also quite accomplished, and an original player (her first band, 28th Day, just had their album reissued on CD for the second time; sadly, her second band, the amazing World Of Pooh, remains as out-of-print vinyl). JIMMY GARRISON was brilliant in John Coltrane's classic quartet/quintet. COLIN MOULDING of XTC is wonderfully-melodic in the McCartney/Shaw vein. And since I love the Flamin' Groovies so much (and own his former '68 Rickenbacker), I'll round out my random-list-of-ten with GEORGE ALEXANDER, who really kicked the band into high gear on their 'Teenage Head' and 'Flamingo' albums (more interesting and less derivative than his later, McCartney- esque playing IMHO). Anyone have any more to share? -Doug jasret at mindspring.com From hw at CY-B.ORG Mon Sep 8 16:50:29 2003 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:50:29 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: + ++ STAR WARRIORS + + + + + Now that we have recovered from HawkFest (!!), we are planning some great new releases and tour dates for the spring.......... For the very latest HAWKWIND information, always check our UPDATES and ON THE ETHER sections of Mission Control on www.hawkwind.com For those who haven't yet seen them, our Hawkfest Galleries are now up ! On the releases front, we will soon be releasing a single featuring Matthew Wright and Lene Lovich.... Also, at the end of September, Secret Records will be releasing a DVD of the band from the last tour. Recorded in Newcastle, the DVD also features extras such as an interview with Dave, and a wonderful cover image by artist Rodney Matthews. HawkFest 2003 was also recorded, and should be released as a DVD at some stage. Also in the pipeline is a 2CD live release that was recorded at Walthamstow in 2002, at our Xmas party gig, as well as a compilation CD from Hawkfest 2002, and another compilation album with other friends of HW........ We should be in a position to announce the release date of our studio album very soon. Arthur Brown is currently serving aboard the mothership and appears on our forthcoming studio album as well on live releases from the last tour..... We are not now doing an Autumn tour, as we have the opportunity to tour with a very well known American psychedelic band in the spring, with the possibility of producing a joint live CD with them.... More info to come on this as soon as things are firmed up !!! Full details of our EXETER gig on October 25th will be on Mission Control TOUR DATES asap......... + ++ ++ + MESSAGE ENDS + + + + + From nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM Mon Sep 8 17:37:55 2003 From: nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM (nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:37:55 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Thanks. I've been wondering for years about that. --Nick >From: StevenTice at AOL.COM >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:39:04 >Yup, that's Tony Levin...they're called "Funk >Fingers," and Tony even >describes (with diagrams) how to make them in his >book, Beyond the Bass Clef. He >credits Peter Gabriel with the suggestion of >attaching drumsticks to his fingers. > You can see these things in action on the King >Crimson DVD released a couple >of years ago (Tony sure gets around, doesn't he? >:-). > >Steven Tice >Calliope Comics >519 Valentine Hill Road >Bellefonte, PA 16823 >814-355-9830 >Musings Online: http://javapadawan.com/calliope/ From Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Mon Sep 8 18:39:44 2003 From: Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (Andrew Garibaldi) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 23:39:44 +0100 Subject: Flat Out on CD Message-ID: Fantastic opening track - downhill from there onwards for me. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Halligan" To: Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 6:29 PM Subject: BOC: Flat Out on CD > This was in the latest dispatch from The Artist Shop > http://www.artist-shop.com > > > Buck Dharma/Flat Out ....CD $12.99 > > Buck Dharma was the lead guitarist for Blue Oyster Cult, one of the most > > successful hard rock bands ever. He made only one solo album, Flat Out, in > > 1982. Fans have been screaming for this, here it is! > > Really? I guess if silence can be called deafening.... Still, it's nice to > see everything BOC-related is now available on CD. How does everyone here > feel about Flat Out? I think of it mostly as a teaser for the change in > direction the band would take with RBN and Club Ninja, which is probably why > I'm not a big fan. I'd still rate it above Club Ninja on a "best album" > list, as the second-worst BOC/related album. IMHO, today the band is miles > beyond the era that Flat Out lead to. > > Brian From youless at COX.NET Mon Sep 8 19:06:12 2003 From: youless at COX.NET (Steve Youles) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:06:12 -0400 Subject: HW: new Alan Davey interview Message-ID: Not sure if this has been mentioned onlist previously, and I just overlooked it, but I've found an Alan Davey interview from July 2003 here: http://www.live4metal.com/hawkwind.htm Cheers Steve From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Sep 8 19:31:40 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:31:40 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:07:29 -0400, Doug Pearson wrote: >Personally, I have zero interest in bassists I consider showy/flashy. I >can appreciate the virtuosity of Stanley Clarke, Tony Levin, Billy >Sheehan, Jeff Berlin, Victor Wooton, Jaco, and all the other players they >drool about on 'The Bottom Line' (renowned bass player email list that has >included Berlin [an egotistical asshole], Levin [a super-nice guy], and >Mike Watt [even nicer guy], among its contributors), but their playing >does little to move me, personally I find I have the same response. It all goes back to the question of how to define great. Someone who is an astonishing virtuoso and can do things with the instrument that almost no-one else can, because of the level of their technique, vs. someone who has nowhere near that technical skill but has a greater creative/aesthetic sense, which of course is totally subjective and in the end means "an aesthetic sense that more closely parallels my own" :-) Very few of the virtuoso players like Jaco et al feature in my record collection, because their music tends to leave me rather cold. But I can't deny that they are superlative technicians and I'd have to include them on a list of great bass players, although they wouldn't be on a list of "bass players I particularly enjoy listening to". Although- Tony Levin's on quite a few albums I own, but then again he pops up everywhere. I think we are basically saying the same thing here. Nick From kkusic at EXECPC.COM Mon Sep 8 22:33:25 2003 From: kkusic at EXECPC.COM (Karen Kusic) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 22:33:25 -0400 Subject: OFF: Twisted ****ing Sister - WAS: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Couldn't help but think of that classic web page "Dee is Christina" when I read this. The page isn't "live" on line any longer but a copy of it does exist in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine! http://web.archive.org/web/20020803022642/http://www.deeischristina.com/proof.htm Yes ... they spelled Snider wrong as Snyder. It's still hilarious. ;) On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:20:49 +0100, Richard Lockwood wrote: >"GOOD EVENING - WE ARE TWISTED ****ING SISTER - AND WE WANNA ROCK!!!" > >Top night out - many years ago, but an ace band. They rocked like, errr, >b***ards! > >"Hey Dee, is that your ring Jeanies wearing?" >"Uh-huh." >"Bye the way - where d'ya meet her?" >"I MET HER AT THE CANDY STORE..." > >One of the few cover versions that's better than the original. (Discuss!) >:-) > >Cheers, > >Rich. > > >> RMayo19761 wrote: >> >> > mark mendoza: bassist in dictators >> >> oh, I've seen Twisted Sister this summer with the classic lineup... they >rulez, no way man. >> They are foridably great! Dee Snider is a great frontman!! If you can, >> go to see them. >> >> ciao!, gg From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Tue Sep 9 07:33:09 2003 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:33:09 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: >>> jasret at MINDSPRING.COM 09/08/03 04:07PM >>> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:30:45 EDT, RMayo19761 at AOL.COM wrote: I would actually include Paul McCartney on the list for the same reason I'd include Ade Shaw - both have a flowing, melodic style that's aeons beyond simple root/fifth pounding, but is never showy or flashy; nimble, but not speedy. Unless you pay close attention, both played deceptively- simple-sounding lines. I'd even rate McCartney's post-Beatles bass playing as quite good, even though most of the music sucks (IMHO). We should include McCartney if for no other reason than his influence on so many other bassists to follow who, admittedly have outdone Sir Paul. Same can be said of all the soul players like James Jamerson. They may lack the flash of modern guys, but without them, the current crop would have likely taken up another instrument... Personally, I have zero interest in bassists I consider showy/flashy. I can appreciate the virtuosity of Stanley Clarke, Tony Levin, Billy Sheehan, Jeff Berlin, Victor Wooton, Jaco, and all the other players they drool about on 'The Bottom Line' (renowned bass player email list that has included Berlin [an egotistical asshole], Levin [a super-nice guy], and Mike Watt [even nicer guy], among its contributors), but their playing does little to move me, personally (in marked contrast to the two players I mention in the previous paragraph). I agree with you here. If a guy wants to be a lead guitarist, then go ahead and play guitar, but don't play lead guitar on the bass. Some guys, like Bogert, can play very busy stuff on bass, but still maintain the bottom end and continue to drive the song. Busy guys often work well in a power trio because there's lots of room for them, c.f the sainted Geddy. BTW, does anyone know what Geddy's real name is? Speaking of Mike Watt, it was very cool to see him playing in a more-restrained-than-usual manner when filling in for the late Dave Alexander in the Stooges reunion - if he had played "to his peak ability", he would have ruined their set, but the few extra fills and runs he added to Alexander's original lines all fit the songs perfectly (the Red Hot Chilli Peppers played immediately after them, and you can add Flea to my list of players that don't do much for me). Really? I think Flea's pretty good. I don't consider him too busy most of the time, and he's got his own style... But then again, I love Bootsy Collins & Larry Graham, so maybe I'm just a hypocrite (what else is new?). And John Entwistle (perhaps because he *didn't* seem so flashy in contrast to the other half of the classic Who rhythm section). Right! Also, Ptet's disdain for lead playing left John a lot of territory to fill in, so JE's overplaying never bothered me... I didn't see CAROL KAYE (the bass equivalent to Glen Campbell in that she played on nearly every hit to come out of LA in the sixties) on the list, so I'll add her. Wise choice! theo From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Tue Sep 9 07:35:51 2003 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:35:51 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: >>> nick at THECOMPLETESHEET.COM 09/08/03 05:37PM >>> Thanks. I've been wondering for years about that. --Nick >From: StevenTice at AOL.COM >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:39:04 >Yup, that's Tony Levin...they're called "Funk >Fingers," and Tony even >describes (with diagrams) how to make them in his >book, Beyond the Bass Clef. He >credits Peter Gabriel with the suggestion of >attaching drumsticks to his fingers. > You can see these things in action on the King >Crimson DVD released a couple >of years ago (Tony sure gets around, doesn't he? >:-). I believe there's a pic of Tony with them on the back of one of the Bozio Levin Stevens CDs... theo From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Tue Sep 9 07:45:11 2003 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:45:11 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: >>> nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM 09/08/03 07:31PM >>> On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:07:29 -0400, Doug Pearson wrote: Very few of the virtuoso players like Jaco et al feature in my record collection, because their music tends to leave me rather cold. But I can't deny that they are superlative technicians and I'd have to include them on a list of great bass players, although they wouldn't be on a list of "bass players I particularly enjoy listening to". Although- Tony Levin's on quite a few albums I own, but then again he pops up everywhere. Tony is a virtuoso, but he's also good at laying back when the song calls for it, which is why I respect him a lot--he doesn't need to prove himself or shove his playing in your face. He's confident to let his sound speak for itself... Oh, another great Tony--Tony Franklin. What's he up to these days? theo From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Tue Sep 9 07:46:41 2003 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:46:41 +0200 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: TJ asked... >I agree with you here. If a guy wants to be a lead guitarist, then go ahead and >play guitar, but don't play lead guitar on the bass. Some guys, like Bogert, >can play very busy stuff on bass, but still maintain the bottom end and >continue to drive the song. Busy guys often work well in a power trio >because there's lots of room for them, c.f the sainted Geddy. BTW, >does anyone know what Geddy's real name is? I think it's Gary. But his mother spoke with such an accent that it sounded more like Geddy. Not sure where his folks emigrated from though...perhaps eastern Europe? Maybe Lee is his middle name too, but that's just a pure guess. Grakkl (FAA) From alfred.koessl at NETWAY.AT Tue Sep 9 08:25:50 2003 From: alfred.koessl at NETWAY.AT (alfred) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:25:50 -0400 Subject: test Message-ID: testing ..... From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Tue Sep 9 09:14:18 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:14:18 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Doug, Thanx for yet another articulate post! I am wondering what you (and others) think of Paul Barker and Peter Hook? Also, please go ahead and tell us your thoughts about Phil Lesh and the GD rhythm section. Sure, I am a fan of theirs, but I would like to know your thoughts. Personally, I like the years 1972-1974 the best. Part of that has to do w/ them only having one drummer during that time. Let it rip man. I certianly won't be offended. We all have a right to our own opinions. Good or bad. It's interesting to see how someone came to form their opinion. Peace, D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Pearson" > Personally, I have zero interest in bassists I consider showy/flashy. I > can appreciate the virtuosity of Stanley Clarke, Tony Levin, Billy > Sheehan, Jeff Berlin, Victor Wooton, Jaco, and all the other players they > drool about on 'The Bottom Line' (renowned bass player email list that has > included Berlin [an egotistical asshole], Levin [a super-nice guy], and > Mike Watt [even nicer guy], among its contributors), but their playing > does little to move me, personally (in marked contrast to the two players > I mention in the previous paragraph). Speaking of Mike Watt, it was very > cool to see him playing in a more-restrained-than-usual manner when > filling in for the late Dave Alexander in the Stooges reunion - if he had > played "to his peak ability", he would have ruined their set, but the few > extra fills and runs he added to Alexander's original lines all fit the > songs perfectly (the Red Hot Chilli Peppers played immediately after them, > and you can add Flea to my list of players that don't do much for me). > > And Jack Casady (but not Phil Lesh - great musician; > rotten, or at least inappropriate, bassist, but don't get me started on > the Dead's rhythm, or lack thereof, section). > > -Doug > jasret at mindspring.com From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Tue Sep 9 09:08:09 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:08:09 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/2003 7:34:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tjackson at SYR.EDU writes: > BTW, > does anyone know what Geddy's real name is? > >Geddy Lee (born Gary Lee Weinrib) From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Tue Sep 9 09:18:07 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:18:07 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: the bassist from KORN seems to play w/ these funk fingers most of the time....... from what I have seen.....anyway not a fan of theirs really.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 5:37 PM Subject: Re: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > Thanks. I've been wondering for years about that. > > --Nick > > >From: StevenTice at AOL.COM > >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > >Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:39:04 > >Yup, that's Tony Levin...they're called "Funk > >Fingers," and Tony even > >describes (with diagrams) how to make them in his > >book, Beyond the Bass Clef. He > >credits Peter Gabriel with the suggestion of > >attaching drumsticks to his fingers. > > You can see these things in action on the King > >Crimson DVD released a couple > >of years ago (Tony sure gets around, doesn't he? > >:-) From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Tue Sep 9 09:09:10 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:09:10 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/2003 7:34:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tjackson at SYR.EDU writes: > agree with you here. If a guy wants to be a lead guitarist, then go ahead > and > play guitar, but don't play lead guitar on the bass. would you apply the same sentiment to one who plays rhythm guitar on the bass? bobm From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Tue Sep 9 09:21:17 2003 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:21:17 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: >>> RMayo19761 at AOL.COM 09/09/03 09:09AM >>> In a message dated 9/9/2003 7:34:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tjackson at SYR.EDU writes: > agree with you here. If a guy wants to be a lead guitarist, then go ahead > and > play guitar, but don't play lead guitar on the bass. would you apply the same sentiment to one who plays rhythm guitar on the bass? Not sure what you mean here. A guy who just plays the root note all the time? Examples please? tj From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Tue Sep 9 09:22:19 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:22:19 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/2003 9:21:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tjackson at SYR.EDU writes: > Not sure what you mean here. A guy who just plays the root note all the > time? > Examples please? > > Lemmy From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Tue Sep 9 09:37:28 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:37:28 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: when I was goin to college, I met a guitar major he was about halfway through his education learning "theory" I guess..... he gave me copies of many different scales to learn positions etc... (for which I was grateful) he could turn the metronome up pretty fast and shred the scales along in time the first time we jammed, I started a simple blues progression thinking that would be common ground to build on and that he could definetly take it somewhere I was shocked that his playing seemed very flat proficient - but - flat that was my first real life lesson about 'soul' technically, his ability smoked mine but after learning all that theory and technique what did he have? sometimes, the simplest notes and progressions etc... make the biggest impression and totally blow away all that 'flash' IMHO, a truly great musician has lots of soul that may come out in a flash Peace, D ----- Original Message ----- > > > >Personally, I have zero interest in bassists I consider showy/flashy. I > >can appreciate the virtuosity of Stanley Clarke, Tony Levin, Billy > >Sheehan, Jeff Berlin, Victor Wooton, Jaco, and all the other players they > >drool about on 'The Bottom Line' (renowned bass player email list that has > >included Berlin [an egotistical asshole], Levin [a super-nice guy], and > >Mike Watt [even nicer guy], among its contributors), but their playing > >does little to move me, personally > > I find I have the same response. It all goes back to the question of how to > define great. Someone who is an astonishing virtuoso and can do things with > the instrument that almost no-one else can, because of the level of their > technique, vs. someone who has nowhere near that technical skill but has a > greater creative/aesthetic sense, which of course is totally subjective and > in the end means "an aesthetic sense that more closely parallels my own" :-) > > Very few of the virtuoso players like Jaco et al feature in my record > collection, because their music tends to leave me rather cold. But I can't > deny that they are superlative technicians and I'd have to include them on > a list of great bass players, although they wouldn't be on a list of "bass > players I particularly enjoy listening to". > > Although- Tony Levin's on quite a few albums I own, but then again he pops > up everywhere. > > I think we are basically saying the same thing here. > > Nick > From Tjackson at SYR.EDU Tue Sep 9 09:40:28 2003 From: Tjackson at SYR.EDU (Ted Jackson) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:40:28 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: >>> RMayo19761 at AOL.COM 09/09/03 09:22AM >>> In a message dated 9/9/2003 9:21:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tjackson at SYR.EDU writes: > Not sure what you mean here. A guy who just plays the root note all the > time? > Examples please? > > Lemmy Yeah, Lem's a special case. Not sure I'd even call him a bassist. Motorhead are equal to more than the sum of the parts. Let's put it this way: the 2 times a year I pick up my bass, I don't try to copy Lemmy... theo From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Tue Sep 9 11:04:56 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:04:56 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 04:07:29PM -0400, Doug Pearson wrote: => I would actually include Paul McCartney on the list for the same reason => I'd include Ade Shaw - both have a flowing, melodic style that's aeons => beyond simple root/fifth pounding, but is never showy or flashy; nimble, => but not speedy. Unless you pay close attention, both played deceptively- => simple-sounding lines. Anyone that has the admiration and respect of both Allen Woody and Lemmy as a bass player is okay in my book. Gov't Mule tried to get Sir Paul to play on a track for the _Deep End_ project (on account of him being such a big influence on Woody), but it never worked out. (John Paul Jones was the other "big fish" that slipped away, but he looked a lot closer to working out.) => I didn't see CAROL KAYE (the bass equivalent to Glen Campbell in that she => played on nearly every hit to come out of LA in the sixties) on the list, => so I'll add her. No kidding! Anyone that can come up with an archetypal riff like the "Mission Impossible" TV show theme tune is okay in my book. A friend once caught an NPR segment on Carol Kaye, which was fascinating. It prompted lengthy Web-searching afterwards for more information. What an interesting career! Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 9 11:11:14 2003 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Zebulon Mysterioso) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:11:14 +0000 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: > > If a guy wants to be a lead guitarist, then go ahead > > and play guitar, but don't play lead guitar on the bass. I hafta take issue with this - you're defining the musicians' roles for them. Because the instrument a guy (or girl) chooses is an octave (or two) beneath that of another musician, should they then restrict their playing to that of a purely rhythmic support role? _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Tue Sep 9 12:33:17 2003 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:33:17 +0200 Subject: OFF: Hidria Spacefolk in the US ('04) Message-ID: Hey Folks...just caught this announcement. Frankly, I'm stunned. I never believed LaDuca and Co. were amenable to the concept of (Shock! Horror!) a true spacerock entity gracing the stage of the ever-so-proper NEARFest. :) Yeah, so Nektar and Porky Tree have been called to duty, but they are 'accepted' by the stodgy Progger crowd, whereas the likes of Hawkwind are often not. Interesting... I wonder if HW would ever have a chance at headlining...anybody ever make an inquiry? Grakkl (FAA) P.S. Oh, BTW, Hidria SF are darn good! Looking forward to seeing them myself later this month. ------------------------------------------------------------------- HIDRIA SPACEFOLK to open Day 2 of NEARfest 2004 We are very pleased to announce the second confirmed band for NEARfest 2004, the excellent young Finnish space rock collective Hidria Spacefolk. Relatively new to the world progressive rock scene, Hidria Spacefolk have recorded the EP "HDRSF-1" and the full length (and beautifully packaged and produced) CD "Symbiosis". By NEARfest 2004 they will be releasing their 2nd full length CD. "Symbiosis" is one of those rare recordings that is suitable for both deep late-night listening and playing loudly in the car. Hidria Spacefolk's music mixes the organic sounds of acoustic guitar, piano, flute, and ethnic percussion with electric explorations on guitar and synthesizer, all backed by an exceptionally tight rhythm section. Fans of Ozric Tentacles, Gong and instrumental progressive rock will find much to love here. With a keen knack for interesting melody and odd meter, Hidria Spacefolk will be the first true space rock band to ever take the NEARfest stage. Don't miss their "Sunday morning surprise" performance at NEARfest 2004, when they will transform both the space-time continuum of the Zoellner Arts Center and your inner space! Band website: www.hidriaspacefolk.st Peace Rob LaDuca From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Tue Sep 9 12:52:06 2003 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:52:06 +0200 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Rik lets out... >We are not now doing an Autumn tour, as we have the opportunity >to tour with a very well known American psychedelic band in the >spring, with the possibility of producing a joint live CD with >them.... More info to come on this as soon as things are firmed up !!! Yeah, so Colin hinted this to me at Hawkfest as well...but of course, no amount of needling would make him talk. But I gathered it was a name from the more distant past, as opposed to something that I was initially inclined to guess, which were going to be Queens of the Stone Age or Monster Magnet. Well, if it doesn't happen, maybe we'll never know, but assuming it will, should we start to guess and then see who was right? I'll start...Jefferson Airplane. (It seems like it's been enough time since the last reunion that it's due any day now, minus Creach now though.) Grakkl (FAA) From mr_bt at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK Tue Sep 9 15:14:36 2003 From: mr_bt at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK (Colm McWilliams) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:14:36 +0100 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: I cant see why they dont just tell us who this band is or if they cant cos it hasnt been finalised yet not say anything at all till it has. Also when they say a well known American psychedelic band do they mean well known within our circles only or well known outside our circles? Its great all these new DVD's and singles and stuff are being released soon but is there any more new on the re-issues of QS+C, Warrior etc? colm > Rik lets out... > > >We are not now doing an Autumn tour, as we have the opportunity > >to tour with a very well known American psychedelic band in the > >spring, with the possibility of producing a joint live CD with > >them.... More info to come on this as soon as things are firmed up !!! > > Yeah, so Colin hinted this to me at Hawkfest as well...but of course, > no amount of needling would make him talk. But I gathered it was a > name from the more distant past, as opposed to something that I was > initially inclined to guess, which were going to be Queens of the Stone > Age or Monster Magnet. > > Well, if it doesn't happen, maybe we'll never know, but assuming it > will, should we start to guess and then see who was right? > > I'll start...Jefferson Airplane. (It seems like it's been enough time > since the last reunion that it's due any day now, minus Creach now though.) > > Grakkl (FAA) > From jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK Tue Sep 9 16:05:32 2003 From: jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Jill Strobridge) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:05:32 +0100 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Rx" To: Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 9:50 PM Subject: Re: HW: Updates and Teazers > Full details of our EXETER gig on October 25th will be on Mission Control TOUR DATES > asap......... Heh - looks like I'm going to have to pay my relatives a flying visit! Hi folks - bye folks - thanks for the bed - sorry I had to rush off to the venue as soon as I arrived and didn't get back until after you'd all gone to sleep and it's a shame I wasn't up in time for breakfast and now I have to dash for the train - but hey it was great to see you. Yeah - it was a terrific show - a real shame you didn't come along - ok - sure I'll catch up with all the news next time. Bye now! 8-) jill ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jill Strobridge ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET Tue Sep 9 17:04:33 2003 From: ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET (Tim) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:04:33 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Alrighty then, i'll go for `13th Floor Elevators', that's if Rocky Erickson is out of the funny farm. LOL tim 8>)... Henderson Keith wrote: > > Well, if it doesn't happen, maybe we'll never know, but assuming it > will, should we start to guess and then see who was right? > > I'll start...Jefferson Airplane. (It seems like it's been enough time > since the last reunion that it's due any day now, minus Creach now though.) > > Grakkl (FAA) From mr_bt at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK Tue Sep 9 17:11:28 2003 From: mr_bt at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK (Colm McWilliams) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:11:28 +0100 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: i was going to say the 13th floor elevators but didnt rocky erikson pass away? colm > Alrighty then, i'll go for `13th Floor Elevators', that's if Rocky Erickson > is out of the funny farm. LOL > tim 8>)... > Henderson Keith wrote: > > > > Well, if it doesn't happen, maybe we'll never know, but assuming it > > will, should we start to guess and then see who was right? > > > > I'll start...Jefferson Airplane. (It seems like it's been enough time > > since the last reunion that it's due any day now, minus Creach now though.) > > > > Grakkl (FAA) > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Tue Sep 9 18:55:29 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:55:29 +0100 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: ?! > In a message dated 9/9/2003 9:21:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Tjackson at SYR.EDU writes: > > > Not sure what you mean here. A guy who just plays the root note all the > > time? > > Examples please? > > > > > > Lemmy > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Tue Sep 9 18:56:50 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:56:50 +0100 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Yes. I know a great joke about this... Cheers, Rich. > > > If a guy wants to be a lead guitarist, then go ahead > > > and play guitar, but don't play lead guitar on the bass. > > I hafta take issue with this - you're defining the musicians' roles for > them. Because the instrument a guy (or girl) chooses is an octave (or two) > beneath that of another musician, should they then restrict their playing to > that of a purely rhythmic support role? > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Tue Sep 9 19:01:14 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:01:14 +0100 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Which reminds me of a great (if badly Photoshopped) gag I posted on B3TA recently. Sony Erickson. http://www.hyperactive-stage.co.uk/se.jpg :-) Cheers, Rich. > Alrighty then, i'll go for `13th Floor Elevators', that's if Rocky Erickson > is out of the funny farm. LOL > tim 8>)... > Henderson Keith wrote: > > > > Well, if it doesn't happen, maybe we'll never know, but assuming it > > will, should we start to guess and then see who was right? > > > > I'll start...Jefferson Airplane. (It seems like it's been enough time > > since the last reunion that it's due any day now, minus Creach now though.) > > > > Grakkl (FAA) > > From capcloud at HAWKLORD.COM Tue Sep 9 21:45:42 2003 From: capcloud at HAWKLORD.COM (Captain Cloud) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:45:42 -0400 Subject: HW looking for Weird 8 on CD Message-ID: Wandering thru my Weird CDs kollection, I realize that I never picked up a copy of Weird Number 8. I've watched Ebay for a couple months without seeing it. I seem to remember that this was the hardest-to-find of the lot, or something like that, although it didn't show up on the recent thread on rare HW CDs. Anybody know where there is a copy for sale? Is this really a hard find? Cheers, Captain Cloud capcloud at hawklord.com From JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM Tue Sep 9 23:00:01 2003 From: JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM (JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:00:01 EDT Subject: HW looking for Weird 8 on CD Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/2003 8:44:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time, capcloud at HAWKLORD.COM writes: > Wandering thru my Weird CDs kollection, I realize that I never picked up a > copy of Weird Number 8. I've watched Ebay for a couple months without > seeing it. I seem to remember that this was the hardest-to-find of the lot, > or something like that, although it didn't show up on the recent thread on > rare HW CDs. > > Anybody know where there is a copy for sale? Is this really a hard find? > > Don't think Weird # 8 made it to CD, at least not as such. Both the 'Special Releases' section at Mission Control and the 'Albums and Compact Discs' section at Andrew Dawson's 'Hawkwind Files' site only list Weird #s 1-7. Robert Godwin's 'Illustrated Collector's Guide to Hawkwind' describes Weird # 8 as: "Early Hawkwind and Dave Brock solo pre-Hawkwind", which sounds quite a bit like the 'Dawn of Hawkwind' CD that Voiceprint released a few years ago. Voiceprint released two versions: one with a full-sized "scrap-book style" booklet and a jewel-case version with a cut-down, or maybe just a smaller version, of the booklet. I have checked CD Services(www.cd-services.com),CD Universe(www.cduniverse.com), Tower Records(www.towerrecords.com) andCDNow(www.cdnow.com; Amazon is in cahoots with CDN, so I would assume it's at Amazon, too) and they all list DoH. CDS and Tower both list it as in stock, the rest just list it (maybe they can get it, maybe they can't!) CD Services list theirs as the jewel case version; I don't remember what versions the other sites are selling. Joe From kkusic at EXECPC.COM Wed Sep 10 01:15:36 2003 From: kkusic at EXECPC.COM (Karen Kusic) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:15:36 -0400 Subject: HW: Fire - the Arthur Brown story Message-ID: This is a great new release from what I've heard of it! My DJ friend, Mark Krueger, played 3 tunes from it on his Planet Prog radio show that I maintain the web site for: http://claim.to/prog/pp090703.html The show is archived in mp3 format to download! Instructions here: http://claim.to/prog/playlists.html The "spacier" stuff starts with Metamorphosis from Switzerland at 51:50 into the 90 minute show. Lots of Pink Floyd influences with this band. The Arthur Brown is fabulous and so is the Zomby Woof! Thank you Jerry Kranitz of Aural Innovations for getting that to us. I'm catching up on entering the last month of playlists but got this one posted ASAP! Enjoy! Karen aka "Bubbles" the Planet Prog webmaster On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:01:05 -0400, Dave Law wrote: >i expect folks are already aware of this but yesterday i picked up the >new Arthur Brown, best of "Fire - the story of" . of particular interest >to Hawk fans will be the track Time Captives (not the HW version but very >similar) which the band have been playing at most gigs for the last nine >months or so, it also features the Canterbury fayre version of Silver >Machine as well as The Gremlin (the song of) from Capt Lockheed. the other >tracks cover a wide variety of styles from 60's psychedelia , Tom Jones >style crooning to what could loosley be described as "experimental". for >someone such as myself who was looking for a broad over view of the mans >work i'd say that this is an ideal introduction. >full details - >FIRE - THE STORY OF ARTHUR BROWN >Released on Castle Music, a division of Sanctuary Records >Cat no - CMEDD 674 >hope that may be of use to some of you >regards >dave From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 10 04:53:32 2003 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Zebulon Mysterioso) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:53:32 +0000 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: Pray tell...? >From: Richard Lockwood > >Yes. > >I know a great joke about this... > >Cheers, > >Rich. > > > > > > > If a guy wants to be a lead guitarist, then go ahead > > > > and play guitar, but don't play lead guitar on the bass. > > > > I hafta take issue with this - you're defining the musicians' roles for > > them. Because the instrument a guy (or girl) chooses is an octave (or >two) > > beneath that of another musician, should they then restrict their >playing >to > > that of a purely rhythmic support role? > > _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess From petertrance at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 10 05:01:37 2003 From: petertrance at HOTMAIL.COM (PETER WILKINSON) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:01:37 +0000 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: some observations re 'bass' discussion.....comparison twixt bass and lead can be turned on its head. bassists actually play a form of lead (drider, again its a question of definition) in that most lead is single note playing Mmmm does this mean lead guitarists are those who could'nt quite hack the bass??? the bass is also a'lead instrument' in its own right -without it there would be no dub or drum and bass. the question of flashy play can be levelled at any instrument, keyboards, drums, brass........jimmy page remarked in 1970 (i think) that 'i can play as fast as some the other guys but what does it say?' After all music is about emotion and the space between notes is just as important as the notes themselves. >From: DRider >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >Subject: Re: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:37:28 -0400 > >when I was goin to college, I met a guitar major >he was about halfway through his education >learning "theory" I guess..... >he gave me copies of many different scales to learn >positions etc... (for which I was grateful) >he could turn the metronome up pretty fast and shred >the scales along in time >the first time we jammed, I started a simple blues progression >thinking that would be common ground to build on >and that he could definetly take it somewhere >I was shocked that his playing seemed very flat >proficient - but - flat > >that was my first real life lesson about 'soul' > >technically, his ability smoked mine >but after learning all that theory and technique >what did he have? > >sometimes, the simplest notes and progressions etc... >make the biggest impression >and totally blow away all that 'flash' > >IMHO, a truly great musician has lots of soul >that may come out in a flash > >Peace, > >D > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >Personally, I have zero interest in bassists I consider showy/flashy. >I > > >can appreciate the virtuosity of Stanley Clarke, Tony Levin, Billy > > >Sheehan, Jeff Berlin, Victor Wooton, Jaco, and all the other players >they > > >drool about on 'The Bottom Line' (renowned bass player email list that >has > > >included Berlin [an egotistical asshole], Levin [a super-nice guy], and > > >Mike Watt [even nicer guy], among its contributors), but their playing > > >does little to move me, personally > > > > I find I have the same response. It all goes back to the question of how >to > > define great. Someone who is an astonishing virtuoso and can do things >with > > the instrument that almost no-one else can, because of the level of >their > > technique, vs. someone who has nowhere near that technical skill but has >a > > greater creative/aesthetic sense, which of course is totally subjective >and > > in the end means "an aesthetic sense that more closely parallels my own" >:-) > > > > Very few of the virtuoso players like Jaco et al feature in my record > > collection, because their music tends to leave me rather cold. But I >can't > > deny that they are superlative technicians and I'd have to include them >on > > a list of great bass players, although they wouldn't be on a list of >"bass > > players I particularly enjoy listening to". > > > > Although- Tony Levin's on quite a few albums I own, but then again he >pops > > up everywhere. > > > > I think we are basically saying the same thing here. > > > > Nick > > _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK Wed Sep 10 06:13:30 2003 From: maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK (Maxine Wesley) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:13:30 -0000 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: >From: Jill Strobridge >Subject: Re: HW: Updates and Teazers > >Heh - looks like I'm going to have to pay my relatives a flying visit! >Hi folks - bye folks - thanks for the bed - sorry I had to rush off to >the venue as soon as I arrived and didn't get back until after you'd all >gone to sleep and it's a shame I wasn't up in time for breakfast and now >I have to dash for the train - but hey it was great to see you. Yeah - >it was a terrific show - a real shame you didn't come along - ok - sure >I'll catch up with all the news next time. Bye now! >8-) >jill Not to mention..... "oh, those folks crashed in the dining room, lounge & curled up in the dog's basket? Why that's boc-l" cheers Maxine p.s we need the address ;-) From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Wed Sep 10 05:18:17 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:18:17 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/10/2003 5:02:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, petertrance at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > bassists actually play a form of lead (drider, > again its a question of definition) in that most lead is single note playing > huh? no! sure it's a question of definition but i don't agree at all with this statement... just because one is playing single notes does not mean they are 'playing a form of lead' the 'standard' roles of the bass guitar and lead guitar couldnt be more different. for the most part: bass=rhythmic, bottom end, foundation lead= expressive, top end, improv i've always said that bass/drums is the CAKE and the guitar is just the FROSTING... but then i'm a bass player, so... bobm From mcintyre at PA.MSU.EDU Wed Sep 10 08:08:27 2003 From: mcintyre at PA.MSU.EDU (John McIntyre) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:08:27 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Henderson Keith wrote: > Well, if it doesn't happen, maybe we'll never know, but assuming it > will, should we start to guess and then see who was right? > > I'll start...Jefferson Airplane. (It seems like it's been enough time > since the last reunion that it's due any day now, minus Creach now though.) I'm also on the Jefferson Airplane list, and based on the traffic there (Paul Kanter posts frequently), there's not going to be another reunion. However, Jefferson Starship would be a good guess and a darned good pairing with Hawkwind. Kanter's got a darned good crew including Marty Balin at most gigs and a female vocalist who does Grace Slick better than Grace could do nowadays. John McIntyre mcintyre at pa.msu.edu From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Wed Sep 10 08:21:42 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:21:42 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: my guess: Electric Prunes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" Subject: Re: HW: Updates and Teazers > Alrighty then, i'll go for `13th Floor Elevators', that's if Rocky Erickson > is out of the funny farm. LOL > tim 8>)... > Henderson Keith wrote: > > > > Well, if it doesn't happen, maybe we'll never know, but assuming it > > will, should we start to guess and then see who was right? > > > > I'll start...Jefferson Airplane. (It seems like it's been enough time > > since the last reunion that it's due any day now, minus Creach now though.) > > > > Grakkl (FAA) From shll at NOVONORDISK.COM Wed Sep 10 06:00:14 2003 From: shll at NOVONORDISK.COM (SHLL (Scott Heller)) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:00:14 -0700 Subject: HW: Band for US tour Message-ID: Hej, I am guessing that this tour is refering to F7I, who have reformed with Richard Franeki and have released a great space rock cd. There was talk of a tour with F/i, Hawkwind and maybe Alien Planetscapes. I had heard only the east coast would be covered but nothing was confirmed. I am just throwing Hawkwind in here as I know the others were planning a tour. scott Ob CD- Free- Highway Remaster CD PS: I have an extra copy of PXR5 on CD that I will part with for a decent offer. From mcintyre at PA.MSU.EDU Wed Sep 10 09:11:18 2003 From: mcintyre at PA.MSU.EDU (John McIntyre) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:11:18 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Tim wrote: > Alrighty then, i'll go for `13th Floor Elevators', that's if Rocky Erickson > is out of the funny farm. LOL He is out of the funny farm and is reportedly better recovered than Syd Barrett, although the chances of either returning to performing music is about equal. However, the 13th Floor Elevators label mates, the Golden Dawn have "regrouped"; i.e., the main guy has recruited some new band mates, so they're available. John McIntyre mcintyre at pa.msu.edu From james.hogard at JUNO.COM Wed Sep 10 11:35:19 2003 From: james.hogard at JUNO.COM (Tony Hogard) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:35:19 -0500 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Colm McWilliams: > i was going to say the 13th floor elevators but didnt rocky erikson > pass away? Roky's still around, getting around town for benefits and such, and the Austin Chronicle notes him as "increasingly responsive". His brother Sumner has been fronting Elevators tribute gigs lately. -Tone From jguizar at STNY.RR.COM Wed Sep 10 11:45:59 2003 From: jguizar at STNY.RR.COM (Jerry Guizar) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:45:59 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers In-Reply-To: <3F5F143B.DF82C33E@pa.msu.edu> Message-ID: Primordial Undermind From erics at TELEPRES.COM Wed Sep 10 12:19:17 2003 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:19:17 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers In-Reply-To: <3F5EF931.20198.4EDD45@localhost>; from maxine.wesley@PORT.AC.UK on Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 10:13:30AM -0000 Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 10:13:30AM -0000, Maxine Wesley wrote: > "oh, those folks crashed in the dining room, lounge & curled > up in the dog's basket? Why that's boc-l" Reminds me of a certain post-show party in a hotel function room in Belgravia, London. Someone passed out under the table; we all ignored him; then when it came time to wind down, it turned out he wasn't an invitee at all, but an opportunistic street person. -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / When I came back around from the dark side, there in front of me would be the landing area where the crew was, and the Earth, all in the view of my window. I couldn't help but think that there in front of me was all of humanity, except me. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 Command Module Pilot From erics at TELEPRES.COM Wed Sep 10 12:24:02 2003 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:24:02 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers In-Reply-To: <3F5F143B.DF82C33E@pa.msu.edu>; from mcintyre@PA.MSU.EDU on Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 08:08:27AM -0400 Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 08:08:27AM -0400, John McIntyre wrote: > [...] a darned good crew including Marty Balin at most gigs This is a *good* thing? :-/ > and a female vocalist who does Grace Slick better than Grace could do nowadays. Funny how that works. From what I heard, Arthur Brown could out-Gillan Gillan at this point... -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / When I came back around from the dark side, there in front of me would be the landing area where the crew was, and the Earth, all in the view of my window. I couldn't help but think that there in front of me was all of humanity, except me. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 Command Module Pilot From alankerren at YAHOO.CO.UK Wed Sep 10 12:40:57 2003 From: alankerren at YAHOO.CO.UK (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alan=20Linsley?=) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:40:57 +0100 Subject: HW looking for Weird 8 on CD In-Reply-To: <28.3d364d32.2c8fedb1@aol.com> Message-ID: Weird 108 was never released on CD. I guess once you consider that several tracks from it are (or have been) available elsewhere and the overall recording quality of most of it wasn't too great it wasn't considered worth releasing a CD release. Shame, coz the Holland 67 (aka Famous Cure) version of Dealing With The Devil is rather good IMHO. AL --- JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 9/9/2003 8:44:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > capcloud at HAWKLORD.COM writes: > > > Wandering thru my Weird CDs kollection, I realize that I never > picked up a > > copy of Weird Number 8. I've watched Ebay for a couple months > without > > seeing it. I seem to remember that this was the hardest-to-find of > the lot, > > or something like that, although it didn't show up on the recent > thread on > > rare HW CDs. > > > > Anybody know where there is a copy for sale? Is this really a hard > find? > > > > > > Don't think Weird # 8 made it to CD, at least not as such. Both the > 'Special > Releases' section at Mission Control and the 'Albums and Compact > Discs' > section at Andrew Dawson's 'Hawkwind Files' site only list Weird #s > 1-7. > > Robert Godwin's 'Illustrated Collector's Guide to Hawkwind' describes > Weird # > 8 as: "Early Hawkwind and Dave Brock solo pre-Hawkwind", which sounds > quite a > bit like the 'Dawn of Hawkwind' CD that Voiceprint released a few > years ago. > Voiceprint released two versions: one with a full-sized "scrap-book > style" > booklet and a jewel-case version with a cut-down, or maybe just a > smaller > version, of the booklet. > > I have checked CD Services(www.cd-services.com),CD > Universe(www.cduniverse.com), Tower Records(www.towerrecords.com) > andCDNow(www.cdnow.com; Amazon is in > cahoots with CDN, so I would assume it's at Amazon, too) and they all > list DoH. > CDS and Tower both list it as in stock, the rest just list it (maybe > they can > get it, maybe they can't!) CD Services list theirs as the jewel case > version; > I don't remember what versions the other sites are selling. > > Joe ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk From Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Wed Sep 10 15:59:08 2003 From: Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (Andrew Garibaldi) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:59:08 +0100 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Blimey - from what I was told about the Deep Puple/Skynyrd tour, Capt Beefheart could out-Gillan Gillan rite now - if he still sang that is. Andy G (still quite incredulous as to how many copies of the same Dave Anderson origin Hawkwind CD's we've managed to assemble on the shelf in one week!!!-it's unreal) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Siegerman" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 5:24 PM Subject: Re: HW: Updates and Teazers > On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 08:08:27AM -0400, John McIntyre wrote: > > [...] a darned good crew including Marty Balin at most gigs > > This is a *good* thing? :-/ > > > and a female vocalist who does Grace Slick better than Grace could do nowadays. > > Funny how that works. From what I heard, Arthur Brown could > out-Gillan Gillan at this point... > > -- > > | | /\ > |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com > | | / > When I came back around from the dark side, there in front of me would > be the landing area where the crew was, and the Earth, all in the view > of my window. I couldn't help but think that there in front of me was > all of humanity, except me. > - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 Command Module Pilot From Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Wed Sep 10 16:08:42 2003 From: Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (Andrew Garibaldi) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:08:42 +0100 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Gawd Jill - how often have I done that with friends over the years - I almost feel guilty thinking about it. I suppose my maddest way of doing a gig was going to see the Gary Moore Band in 1974, finding that it overran, staying to seethem coz they were just so hot, missing the last bus home, walking 20 miles home down country lanes in the dead of night to arrive home at 5am only to have to sleep in the garage, then getting in the house at 7am to find my parents were taking me to Wales for the day and then I got back to go straight out to see Nazareth and Silverhead the same night - pooped? U bet!!! Any other bizarre experiences for the sake of great concerts anyone? Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jill Strobridge" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 9:05 PM Subject: Re: HW: Updates and Teazers > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rik Rx" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 9:50 PM > Subject: Re: HW: Updates and Teazers > > > > Full details of our EXETER gig on October 25th will be on Mission > Control TOUR DATES > > asap......... > > Heh - looks like I'm going to have to pay my relatives a flying visit! > > Hi folks - bye folks - thanks for the bed - sorry I had to rush off to > the venue as soon as I arrived and didn't get back until after you'd all > gone to sleep and it's a shame I wasn't up in time for breakfast and now > I have to dash for the train - but hey it was great to see you. Yeah - > it was a terrific show - a real shame you didn't come along - ok - sure > I'll catch up with all the news next time. Bye now! > 8-) > jill > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Jill Strobridge > ----------------------------------------------------------------- From jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK Wed Sep 10 16:14:01 2003 From: jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Jill Strobridge) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:14:01 +0100 Subject: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: > Not to mention..... > > "oh, those folks crashed in the dining room, lounge & curled > up in the dog's basket? Why that's boc-l" > but it's ok - they're really very nice people and they've promised to cut the grass, paint the windows, fix the roof - oh - and walk the dog for you. Just don't play your Elton Jo..... ah. Too late. > p.s we need the address ;-) no you don't - trust me on this 8-)) jill > cheers > Maxine ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jill Strobridge ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maxine Wesley" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:13 AM Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers > >From: Jill Strobridge > >Subject: Re: HW: Updates and Teazers > > > >Heh - looks like I'm going to have to pay my relatives a flying visit! > > >Hi folks - bye folks - thanks for the bed - sorry I had to rush off to > >the venue as soon as I arrived and didn't get back until after you'd all > >gone to sleep and it's a shame I wasn't up in time for breakfast and now > >I have to dash for the train - but hey it was great to see you. Yeah - > >it was a terrific show - a real shame you didn't come along - ok - sure > >I'll catch up with all the news next time. Bye now! > >8-) > >jill > From maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK Thu Sep 11 06:29:54 2003 From: maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK (Maxine Wesley) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:29:54 -0000 Subject: Off: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: >From: Andrew Garibaldi >Any other bizarre experiences for the sake of great concerts anyone? At each Rock 'n' Blues, when Hawkwind have played, I have been unable to locate my tent afterwards, does that count? Coz I find it rather bizarre that they have this major disorientation power over me!!! Maxine From maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK Thu Sep 11 07:36:51 2003 From: maxine.wesley at PORT.AC.UK (Maxine Wesley) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:36:51 -0000 Subject: Off: Updates and Teasers Message-ID: Jill said.... > >>Heh - looks like I'm going to have to pay my relatives a flying visit! >> >>> Hi folks - bye folks - thanks for the bed - sorry I had to rush off to >>> the venue as soon as I arrived and didn't get back until after you'd >> >all gone to sleep and it's a shame I wasn't up in time for breakfast >>> and now I have to dash for the train - but hey it was great to see >>> you. Yeah - it was a terrific show - a real shame you didn't come >>>along - ok - sure I'll catch up with all the news next time. Bye >>>now! >> Not to mention..... >> >> "oh, those folks crashed in the dining room, lounge & curled >> up in the dog's basket? Why that's boc-l" >but it's ok - they're really very nice people and they've promised to >cut the grass, paint the windows, fix the roof - oh - and walk the dog >for you. Just don't play your Elton Jo..... ah. Too late. We'll get on just fine coz ... I wouldn?t fool you but I?ve seen the saucers So many times I?m almost in tune Watching them flying in formation Thinking how I could be so immune I?ve seen them I?ve been there with them I can tell you all you want to know Something touched me and I was only sleeping Wouldn?t you, wouldn?t you like to go? Stars climbing into their planets Systems won, controlled from birth Empty living on this highway Can you see me mother earth It?s so endless whirling onwards Wonder what?s cooking at home tonight Maybe if I promise not to say a word They can get me back before the morning light (practically Hawkworthy lyrics? and Daniel always brings a small tear to my eye - lovely melody/inflections!...). (but they have overplayed Candle in the Wind i!!) >> p.s we need the address ;-) > no you don't - trust me on this 8-)) Never trust anyone who says 'Trust me' ...! ;-) ...I'll shut up now... Maxine From Farflung at COMCAST.NET Thu Sep 11 07:33:39 2003 From: Farflung at COMCAST.NET (DRider) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:33:39 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: I am not talking about whether a bass is a lead instrument or not. I am talking about the difference between a musician who has "soul" verses a musician who does not have "soul". Hendrix was flashy, but the man was drenched w/ soul. my own words: > >IMHO, a truly great musician has lots of soul > >that may come out in a flash but a flashy musician w/ no soul is not really a great musician one can play bass as a lead instrument and not be flashy at all Allen Woody would be a good example of this Peace, D ----- Original Message ----- From: "PETER WILKINSON" Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 5:01 AM Subject: Re: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > some observations re 'bass' discussion.....comparison twixt bass and lead > can be turned on its head. bassists actually play a form of lead (drider, > again its a question of definition) in that most lead is single note playing > Mmmm does this mean lead guitarists are those who could'nt quite hack the > bass??? > the bass is also a'lead instrument' in its own right -without it there would > be no dub or drum and bass. > the question of flashy play can be levelled at any instrument, keyboards, > drums, brass........jimmy page remarked in 1970 (i think) that 'i can play > as fast as some the other guys but what does it say?' > After all music is about emotion and the space between notes is just as > important as the notes themselves. > > > >From: DRider > >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET > >Subject: Re: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) > >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:37:28 -0400 > > > >when I was goin to college, I met a guitar major > >he was about halfway through his education > >learning "theory" I guess..... > >he gave me copies of many different scales to learn > >positions etc... (for which I was grateful) > >he could turn the metronome up pretty fast and shred > >the scales along in time > >the first time we jammed, I started a simple blues progression > >thinking that would be common ground to build on > >and that he could definetly take it somewhere > >I was shocked that his playing seemed very flat > >proficient - but - flat > > > >that was my first real life lesson about 'soul' > > > >technically, his ability smoked mine > >but after learning all that theory and technique > >what did he have? > > > >sometimes, the simplest notes and progressions etc... > >make the biggest impression > >and totally blow away all that 'flash' > > > >IMHO, a truly great musician has lots of soul > >that may come out in a flash > > > >Peace, > > > >D From youless at COX.NET Thu Sep 11 10:04:33 2003 From: youless at COX.NET (Steve Youles) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:04:33 -0400 Subject: HW looking for Weird 8 on CD Message-ID: >From the Hawkwind Codex, a tracklisting (in alpha order) for the Weird 108 cassette and cross-reference to other albums including the relevant tracks: Weird 108 --------- bring it on home 1 The Hawkwind Anthology Vol. III LP 1 The Hawkwind Anthology 1967-1982 [Castle 2CD] 1 Acid Daze Vol. III 1 Weird 108 - Hawkwind 1966-73 1 The Hawkwind Collection 1 Night Riding 1 Space Is Deep 1 Hawkwind [remastered CD only] 1 Dawn of Hawkwind [Voiceprint CD] dealing with the devil 3 Spirit of The Age ["Elite" compilation CD] 3 Castle Masters Collection 3 The Hawkwind Anthology Vol. III LP 3 The Hawkwind Anthology 1967-1982 [Castle 2CD] 3 Acid Daze Vol. III 3 The Hawkwind Collection 3 Weird 108 - Hawkwind 1966-73 3 Best of Hawkwind 3 Master of the Universe [Pulse CD] 3 Master of the Universe [Laserlight compilation CD] down on her knees * etchanatae * live and let live * roll 'em pete 1L Weird 108 - Hawkwind 1966-73 2 White Boy Blues [Compilation CD] 2 Dawn of Hawkwind [Voiceprint CD] space is deep 2L Space Ritual Alive 2L Weird 108 - Hawkwind 1966-73 2L British Tribal Music 2L Stasis 2L The Hawkwind Anthology Vol. II CD 2L Acid Daze Vol. III 2L The Hawkwind Anthology Vol. III 2L The Hawkwind Anthology 1967-1982 [Castle 2CD] 2L The Hawkwind Collection 2L The Best and the Rest of Hawkwind 2L Hawkwind Anthology triple CD box set [Castle Communications] 2L Best of Hawkwind 2L Space Is Deep 2L Live & Rare (Onward Flies The Bird) 2L Master of the Universe [Pulse CD] 2L Silver Machine CD [Hallmark compilation] you know you're only dreaming 3L Weird 108 - Hawkwind 1966-73 {Dreaming} 3L In The Beginning 3L The Text Of Festival 3L Early Daze 3L Silver Machine [Legend CD] 3L Year 2000: Codename Hawkwind Volume 1 3L Cosmic Overdrive you shouldn't do that 2L Weird 108 - Hawkwind 1966-73 2aL In The Beginning 2aL The Text Of Festival 2aL Year 2000: Codename Hawkwind Volume 1 2aL Cosmic Overdrive *** 2aL is a cut of 2L So there we are, a total of nine tracks of which only three and three- quarters aren't available elsewhere... Steve From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Thu Sep 11 10:17:36 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:17:36 +0800 Subject: HW looking for Weird 8 on CD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>So there we are, a total of nine tracks of which only three and three- quarters aren't available elsewhere...<< Then again, a few of the tracks on the other Weird CDs were longer than what was available elsewhere as well! William From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Thu Sep 11 10:47:42 2003 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:47:42 +0200 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Andy G. queries... > Any other bizarre experiences for the sake of great concerts anyone? Well, maybe not *terribly* bizarre, but... My first Hawkwind gig was some Sunday night in Toronto (1989), and given that American companies don't know of the concept of this mythical thing called "vacation," I *had* to work on Monday. Which meant leaving after the gig at 1 AM or so, and driving ~6 hours straight to work in Cleveland. That wasn't so bad, but driving home after work probably wasn't such a safe thing. Worse though was just a few years ago, when the Legendary Pink Dots played in Columbus the night before I was going to NEARFest in Bethlehem PA to see Solaris and Happy the Man (I think it was that year). So I refused to miss the Dots (who were worth it certainly), and instead of sleeping afterwards, I drove straight to NEARFest (maybe 8 or 9 hours drive, maybe even more, I'm not sure) and got there about when the thing started (around noon). I tried to sleep between bands but that didn't really work. The worse thing was that I was in the balcony, close to the front row...and while my brain was slipping in and out of consciousness during one part of the day (can't remember who was playing then...oh, wait, I think it was Anekdoten...who were quite cool too), I kept having these weird vertigo attacks like I've never had before. I really felt like I was going to be pulled out of my seat and thrown off the balcony. It was really freaky. Luckily, I caught a second wind, and was totally coherent for Happy the Man. No, maybe iQ was the headliner...hmmm...they're all starting to run together in my mind. And even with these experiences in my past, I still managed to idiotically schedule my trip to London-Walthamstow last December, such that I had to leave town in the middle of the night to reach Gatwick at 4 AM in the morning to fly back to Zuerich. What the hell was I thinking? Grakkl (FAA) From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Thu Sep 11 11:24:53 2003 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:24:53 +0200 Subject: OFF: Future of music... Message-ID: Hello, Folks... I was just thinking about all the recent news about idiotic record companies suing 12-year old kids and the like for downloading music. And this talk I now read about how CDs are already being 'replaced' by more immediate and fluid media, essentially a hard drive full of musical data that every kid will carry around with him. And that seems to me like a revolution that, unlike vinyl-to-cassette-to-CD or whatever, will really change the nature of how artists and listeners 'communicate' or 'connect' with each other. And I can only see it in a negative sense I'm afraid. OK, maybe I can already see how nice it is for people to go to a show by some largely-unknown but taping-friendly band, record the thing on a minidisc player with great sound, download the concert and put it up on a site where anyone can come and listen for themselves and burn copies to keep forever. But then when it comes to studio works, it seems that this '99c-a-song' culture really makes an ARTist feel like the ART is being taken away from them. It's like a cafeteria culture suddenly, where the consumer is now scooping up whatever flavors and portions they want and forgetting the rest. I dunno...so much of 'our' type of music has always been of the conceptual, coherent, or inter-linked kind, that I can't imagine a future with an alphabetical list of song titles that I can't put together into coherent little units called things like "Levitation" or "Space Bandits." And have a picture in my mind (I mean the album art of course) that I 'see' whenever I think or hear that music live. To me, if "music is the soundtrack of life," I don't want that life to be simply a Greatest Hits compilation album. And I think the culture of this goes *way* beyond music, too. In (American) sports (at least), and maybe European too (with Asia hardly caring what team ole Becks played for these days), one can see this pattern too, with the 'team fandom' at certain times lagging behind the 'star fandom,' because the Jordan's and Kobe Bryant's and Shaq's are bigger entities and forces than entire franchises. And anyway, so many sports fans are rewriting the sports (as offered) by being in these so-called 'fantasy' leagues, which to me is quite an interesting analogy to this online music phenomenon. I'm afraid though, that this "free-choice-overload" that can happen with modern things like satellite TV, TiVo, cell phones/SMS, etc. is now taking hold in music so much so, that even though right now it seems only to be important for that Big Ugly Leviathan (that is the pop music industry) and of no concern of ours, I still wonder if it will forever alter the way that commerce, distribution, manufacturing, recording contracts, tours, etc. works that *all* of the industry will be overhauled completely in 10 years. (That's quite a sentence, innit?) So I wonder...will (non-kollektor) people still be fighting on Ebay for that rare CD reissue of "25 Years On" in 10 years, just because they can't find the CD in any stores? Or will the existence/availability of CDs even *matter* then, 'cause most people would have already 'caved' and turned their collections into data? And what will happen to those who can't think of anything but the old 'hard-copy' type of collection? Will they find that there are no longer any stores in which to buy product in, and no state-of-the-art devices that are geared toward their (antequated) choice of media? As a non-artist, and therefore industry lay-person, I can't predict what's happening, 'cause I don't hang around the kids that are driving the culture these days. I'm guessing that many of them don't appreciate the value of a self-contained 40- or 60-minute 'opera' of music, that was carefully written, organized, planned, recorded, produced, packaged, and offered to the public under a meaningful title, with an intent to be consumed as such, and remembered as such, long into the distant future. Is this form of expression really going to die? (And how deep will it go...all the way down to 'us'...or really just for 'them'?) Or will it somehow still exist, or be recreated in a new image, within the new 'data' culture? This is really the A.I. movie applied to music instead of children, maybe... Thoughts anyone? Grakkl (FAA) From kkusic at EXECPC.COM Thu Sep 11 12:21:50 2003 From: kkusic at EXECPC.COM (Karen Kusic) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:21:50 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Keith and gang - I like your initial guess of Monster Magnet! Would that be a live CD or what. MM's live Las Vegas CD is dynamite. My two favorite bands together. Too much to hope for ... Queens of the Stone Age are currently touring with The Red Hot Chili Peppers. What *is* up with Monster Magnet? Anything new in the works? I have a contact here in Milwaukee who has worked on video projects with Monster Magnet and Cheap Trick. http://www.pbgadget.com/links.html I'll see what I can find out! Check out the links on the link above regardless. :) Karen On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:52:06 +0200, Henderson Keith wrote: >Rik lets out... > >>We are not now doing an Autumn tour, as we have the opportunity >>to tour with a very well known American psychedelic band in the >>spring, with the possibility of producing a joint live CD with >>them.... More info to come on this as soon as things are firmed up !!! > >Yeah, so Colin hinted this to me at Hawkfest as well...but of course, >no amount of needling would make him talk. But I gathered it was a >name from the more distant past, as opposed to something that I was >initially inclined to guess, which were going to be Queens of the Stone >Age or Monster Magnet. > >Well, if it doesn't happen, maybe we'll never know, but assuming it >will, should we start to guess and then see who was right? > >I'll start...Jefferson Airplane. (It seems like it's been enough time >since the last reunion that it's due any day now, minus Creach now though.) > >Grakkl (FAA) From alfred.koessl at NETWAY.AT Thu Sep 11 12:31:19 2003 From: alfred.koessl at NETWAY.AT (alfred) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:31:19 -0400 Subject: test Message-ID: testing again ......... From lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET Thu Sep 11 12:41:06 2003 From: lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET (Stephe Lindas) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:41:06 -0400 Subject: test Message-ID: back at ya!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "alfred" To: Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:31 PM Subject: test > testing again ......... From erics at TELEPRES.COM Thu Sep 11 13:23:34 2003 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:23:34 -0400 Subject: HW looking for Weird 8 on CD In-Reply-To: ; from youless@COX.NET on Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 10:04:33AM -0400 Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 10:04:33AM -0400, Steve Youles wrote: > So there we are, a total of nine tracks of which only three and three- > quarters aren't available elsewhere... Which is 42% -- not exactly negligible... -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / When I came back around from the dark side, there in front of me would be the landing area where the crew was, and the Earth, all in the view of my window. I couldn't help but think that there in front of me was all of humanity, except me. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 Command Module Pilot From kkusic at EXECPC.COM Thu Sep 11 17:44:50 2003 From: kkusic at EXECPC.COM (Karen Kusic) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:44:50 -0400 Subject: OFF: Weird Science and Levitation of heavy objects Message-ID: The Hutchison Effect http://www.rumormillnews.com/JOHN_HUTCHISON2.htm From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Thu Sep 11 17:50:47 2003 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:50:47 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:14:18 -0400, DRider wrote: >I am wondering what you (and others) think of Paul Barker >and Peter Hook? I'd agree that they both belong on such a list. I don't like New Order's synth/dance music much, but they actually turned out a couple of great guitar-pop gems early in their career, and Joy Division, of course, were beyond seminal. >Also, please go ahead and tell us your thoughts about Phil Lesh >and the GD rhythm section. Sure, I am a fan of theirs, but I would >like to know your thoughts. Personally, I like the years 1972-1974 >the best. Part of that has to do w/ them only having one drummer >during that time. Let it rip man. I certianly won't be offended. >We all have a right to our own opinions. Good or bad. >It's interesting to see how someone came to form their opinion. Of course, this is only one person's opinion, but it's also based on the observations of (longtime band road manager) Rock Scully in his book on the Dead (a fantastic read, whether or not you're a fan of the band, although ... LONG ASIDE: the band's [and it's hangers-on] practice of dosing the unsuspecting with LSD, while providing some funny anecdotes [the German police trying to maintain their dignity while sweating buckets and, presumably, watching the universe collapse around them, for instance], is utterly *despicable*. I have no problem with the RESPONSIBLE recreational use of that pharmaceutical, but it's clear that not everyone's psyche is capable of handling the jolt of such a powerful drug - any fan of psychedelic music knows of enough casualties to be well aware of that fact! ESPECIALLY for the HW fans here ... I assume that everyone read the Alan Davey interview recently referred to here, where it sounds like that's exactly why Huw seems to have recently "lost it" and had to leave the band as a result.). Sorry, back to the subject at hand, the Grateful Dead rhythm section. My problem is that of the four rhythm section players (rhythm guitar, bass, two drummers), not a single one is a good *rhythm* player. As I said before, I think Phil Lesh is a great musician with a fine sense of melody and a willingness to bring the avant-garde to what's essentially a jamming bar band (not an insult, merely an observation!), but he would always solo over the music, without providing the necessary foundation that is first and foremost a bass player's function, no John Entwistle is he; fine for jazz, but not for a band playing rock (or, as frequently in the Dead's case, especially country-rock) songs. Bob Weir (at least at the time) couldn't even maintain a steady on-the-beat rhythm, absolutely essential when backing a lead guitarist as freeform or noodling (take your pick) as Jerry Garcia. By all reports, he got better in the 80's, but by then, the band was a shadow of its earlier self (due laregly to Garcia's heroin addiction and abdication of any leadership role he once grudgingly held). As for the drummers, Mickey Hart, like Lesh, is a talented musician, and does percussion fills and (for lack of better term) the "ethnic polyrhythm" thing quite well, but does not carry the beat that is, again, essential for a rock band. Bill Kreutzman can at least carry the beat, but is thoroughly unremarkable in doing so. He has none of the *drive* that is (IMHO) required to be a great rock drummer; he seems to be a Nick Mason type who's far more interested in things other than drumming. FWIW I think the Dead's 1968-era output (live recordings, of course) is excellent, and introduced (via Lesh and keyboardist Tom Constanten) a jazz/avant-garde element to the music that could have made for an extremely interesting (and unique) band, especially with Lesh's later interest in electronics (i.e. his 'Seastones' album and the mid-70s space breaks that the band retreated from because they gave too many mellow- hippie fans bad trips). Scully's book mentions an incident around that time where Garcia asked him to fire Weir and keyboardist/singer Pig Pen (great white-boy blues singer, but mediocre keyboardist and completely out- of-place in the band's most psychedelic journeys) so that they (Garcia/Lesh/Constanten) could, presumably follow that direction. Of course, if they had done that, they never would have become the multimillionaire stadium musicians that they eventually (de-)volved into. But I (and probably 2 or 3 other people) would have liked them a lot more ... -Doug (probably my last message for a couple weeks) jasret at mindspring.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Doug Pearson" >> And Jack Casady (but not Phil Lesh - great musician; >> rotten, or at least inappropriate, bassist, but don't get me started on >> the Dead's rhythm, or lack thereof, section). From Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Thu Sep 11 18:26:31 2003 From: Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (Andrew Garibaldi) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:26:31 +0100 Subject: Future of music... Message-ID: Well said Keith!!!!! The thing that worries me is that today's teenagers do not see msuic as anything that a disposable commodity - they don;t feel the need to "own" the CD and that's where the problems start. If yuo have a generation who simply want "music" as cheaply and as disposable a manner as possible, then wher does that leave the music industry who rely on "hard" sales at a price. But the industry is killing itself - take the new CD by Dido. If I want to buy this from the record company it costs me as a dealer ?9.15+VAT. Today I can order that CD from Tesco online for ?8.49 RETAIL!!! Faced with that, ven the likes of HMV and Virgin are simply going to face huge loss of esarnings and ultimately disappear. So the companies are trying desperately to claw it back by suing people - a sure sign of depseration of ever there was one. They are scared. But they have no long-term policies when it comes to working artists an groups - the companies have to answer to shareholders and everything is designed to make instant big annual profits - that is ALL that matters to them. I've strayed from Keith's points but that's my (personal - not CDS) point of view. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henderson Keith" To: Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:24 PM Subject: OFF: Future of music... > Hello, Folks... > > I was just thinking about all the recent news about idiotic record companies > suing 12-year old kids and the like for downloading music. And this talk I > now read about how CDs are already being 'replaced' by more immediate and > fluid media, essentially a hard drive full of musical data that every kid > will carry around with him. And that seems to me like a revolution that, > unlike vinyl-to-cassette-to-CD or whatever, will really change the nature of > how artists and listeners 'communicate' or From Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM Thu Sep 11 18:27:59 2003 From: Deadearnest at BTOPENWORLD.COM (Andrew Garibaldi) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:27:59 +0100 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: Yes - a forthcoming "best of" CD with bonus tracks Usual story. Andy G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Kusic" To: Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:21 PM Subject: Re: HW: Updates and Teazers > What *is* up with Monster Magnet? Anything new in the works? > From mr_bt at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK Thu Sep 11 18:32:26 2003 From: mr_bt at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK (Colm McWilliams) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:32:26 +0100 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: From: "Doug Pearson" > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:14:18 -0400, DRider wrote: > > >I am wondering what you (and others) think of Paul Barker > >and Peter Hook? > > I'd agree that they both belong on such a list. I don't like New Order's > synth/dance music much, but they actually turned out a couple of great > guitar-pop gems early in their career, and Joy Division, of course, were > beyond seminal. Apart from both new order and joy division being great bands their drummer is a Hawkwind fan! colm From DDUCTOR at NEUUS.JNJ.COM Thu Sep 11 18:31:17 2003 From: DDUCTOR at NEUUS.JNJ.COM (Ductor, Dan [NEUUS]) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:31:17 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: http://www.monstermagnet.net/news/ This is a fairly recent update.... Dan. > What *is* up with Monster Magnet? Anything new in the works? > From JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM Thu Sep 11 20:04:52 2003 From: JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM (JLoehr4299 at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:04:52 EDT Subject: HW looking for Weird 8 on CD Message-ID: In a message dated 9/11/2003 9:05:29 AM US Eastern Standard Time, youless at COX.NET writes: > From the Hawkwind Codex, a tracklisting (in alpha order) for the Weird 108 > cassette . . . > Weird 108 > --------- > > bring it on home > <>(snipped to keep people from bitching about length) > dealing with the devil > <> > down on her knees * > <> > etchanatae * > <> > live and let live * > <> > roll 'em pete > <> > space is deep > <> > you know you're only dreaming > <> > you shouldn't do that <> (snipped to keep people from bitching about length) > > Well, that ain't the Dawn of Hawkwind CD from Voiceprint! Joe From kkusic at EXECPC.COM Thu Sep 11 22:19:33 2003 From: kkusic at EXECPC.COM (Karen Kusic) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:19:33 -0400 Subject: OFF: Future of music... Message-ID: Great post Keith! I can't relate to the sports analogy but I'm with you on feeling the loss of the, as you wrote: "self-contained 40- or 60-minute 'opera' of music, that was carefully written, organized, planned, recorded, produced, packaged, and offered to the public under a meaningful title, with an intent to be consumed as such, and remembered as such, long into the distant future." I felt some of that loss when we went from LP to CD. No more beautiful album art and inserts. I actually have LPs in their covers hanging on my walls in frames for their artistic merit and sentimental value. The individual physical media of an "album" is probably doomed with iPods and other digital storage devices becoming more affordable and the media to fill them more available. Article here: CDs and DVDs are 'doomed' http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/32611.html And, it was also recently announced that: "The latest in DVD technology is the disposable EZ-D, a DVD that turns black 48 hours after it's opened, making it unreadable by DVD players. Set to sell for $5 to $7, it's cheaper than late fees." Reference article here: http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/columnists/gmsv/674 4523.htm Let's hear it for our old vinyl! Maybe that's why some of _our_ more favorite artists like Porcupine Tree and Tarantula Hawk still release actual vinyl LPs. Yup - I think rarer vinyl will definitely retain/gain in it's value. Karen From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Thu Sep 11 22:24:09 2003 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Bolts of Ungodly Vision) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:24:09 -0400 Subject: ADMIN: temporarily unsub me please? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: hi, Hi lost the list of commands and the addy to send 'em to for such trifling things. If you could be so kind as to do the above, 'twould be mightily appreciated. off to Rome in the morning, Jason From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Fri Sep 12 03:25:39 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:25:39 +0100 Subject: Future of music... Message-ID: And well said Andy. However, I don't give two hoots whether the likes of Virgin and HMV go under, as they've been making *massive* profits out of the likes of me and you for years. I *do* care about the independent record shops, who work on very small margins and start up due to a love of music - let's face it, when did anyone accuse Branson of being a music fan? The guys who are guilty of creating this scenario are the major record labels, who have been raking in the vast majority of the cash from physical recordings since the invention of the wax cylinder - simply because no-one else had the technology to do it. Now people have, they're bleating like frightened sheep. Unfortunately, they've created a song / single culture (top 40 etc), where the (shall we say) less discerning music listener doesn't see an "album" as a collection of well crafted song which are designed to fit together, but see it as simply ten or twelve songs. So listeners grow up thinking the three (or four) minute song is the indivisible unit of misic. Whereas I'd say "No! The album is the indivisible unit!" as Keith says. If EMI etc hadn't brought out all those "The Best Rock Album In The World Since The Last One!" and "Now That's What I Call Popular Vol 76" collections, maybe we wouldn't be in this situation. Just a "I've just woken up and I'm late for work" thought. :-) Cheers, Rich. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Garibaldi" To: Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: Re: Future of music... > Well said Keith!!!!! > The thing that worries me is that today's teenagers do not see msuic as > anything that a disposable commodity - they don;t feel the need to "own" the > CD and that's where the problems start. If yuo have a generation who simply > want "music" as cheaply and as disposable a manner as possible, then wher > does that leave the music industry who rely on "hard" sales at a price. > But the industry is killing itself - take the new CD by Dido. If I want to > buy this from the record company it costs me as a dealer ?9.15+VAT. Today I > can order that CD from Tesco online for ?8.49 RETAIL!!! Faced with that, ven > the likes of HMV and Virgin are simply going to face huge loss of esarnings > and ultimately disappear. > So the companies are trying desperately to claw it back by suing people - a > sure sign of depseration of ever there was one. They are scared. But they > have no long-term policies when it comes to working artists an groups - the > companies have to answer to shareholders and everything is designed to make > instant big annual profits - that is ALL that matters to them. > I've strayed from Keith's points but that's my (personal - not CDS) point of > view. > Andy G. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Henderson Keith" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:24 PM > Subject: OFF: Future of music... > > > > Hello, Folks... > > > > I was just thinking about all the recent news about idiotic record > companies > > suing 12-year old kids and the like for downloading music. And this talk > I > > now read about how CDs are already being 'replaced' by more immediate and > > fluid media, essentially a hard drive full of musical data that every kid > > will carry around with him. And that seems to me like a revolution that, > > unlike vinyl-to-cassette-to-CD or whatever, will really change the nature > of > > how artists and listeners 'communicate' or > > From shll at NOVONORDISK.COM Fri Sep 12 06:47:14 2003 From: shll at NOVONORDISK.COM (SHLL (Scott Heller)) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:47:14 +0200 Subject: OFF: Future of music Message-ID: Hej, I think this is a very relevant and interesting discussion. As many of you know, I am part of a small record label called Burnt Hippie Recordings. We have released 7 releases since our start a few years back. It is becoming increasingly difficult to continue in this business. CDs are not selling despite having a low cost to the distributors. This is common with all small labels we talk with. The only thing that seems to work these days is vinyl. All of our vinyl releases are sold out. In the future we will probably only do small run (300-500) vinyl prints and no CDs. Even though the vinyl costs 5 times as much as the CD to make, there is at least a small market for this and we can probably make enough money back to put out one more release. It is a real stuggle though with the copyright peolpe, the tax people, making it almost impossible to continue. Hawkwind must feel in the same position, that it is difficult to sell large amounts of anything. As Andy said...everyone in this business is stuggling. In Copenhagen, at least 5 record shops have closed down, and close to 20 in the whole country in the last year. Route 66, a vinyl only shop is doing ok though but again it is a small collectors and true music fans that keep this allive. The young generation know nothing about this at all. They don't collect anything, they only consume. The mass media has created this monster and has no idea what to do about it. In the end, I think most bands, who want to make any money on their studio outputs, will need to sell download songs directly from their web site so that they can control the material. Print some CDs and maybe vinyl records... who knows... The only money to be made will be playing live and selling merchandise. We will see.... sorry for the long rant.. scott ObCD- Pothead- Tu'f Luv (Germany 2003) From si at SICKTHINGSUK.CO.UK Fri Sep 12 09:25:08 2003 From: si at SICKTHINGSUK.CO.UK (Si Halley) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:25:08 +0100 Subject: OT: Johnny Cash dies at 71 Message-ID: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3103164.stm Si "The Eyes Of Alice Cooper" - In Stores 22nd September 2003 ------------ The Alice Cooper Trivia File: http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk UK Unofficial Alice Cooper Convention: http://www.sickcon.co.uk From jswartz at MITRE.ORG Fri Sep 12 10:14:47 2003 From: jswartz at MITRE.ORG (John Swartz) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:14:47 -0400 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) - LONG!! Message-ID: O.K., I'm WAAAAAYYYY late to the party on this one, but I'd like to share my thoughts since I play a little bass. I would've posted sooner, but I've been in a class this week and haven't had time to post the detailed reply that I wanted to - yes, that's a warning that this post may be a bit long... While I haven't studied all of the great bassists, and don't necessarily identify with the music played by all the great bassists, I do appreciate many of them. I have many favorites. Growing up, like many young males, I wanted to be in a rock band, and like many young males, I was in a band or two in high school (no offense intended to the ladies by the way - some of my favorite musicians are women). I originally played keyboards, and only took up bass when our bassplayer quit the band (but left his bass in my parents' basement, where we practiced) - the band figured they needed a bassist more than a keyboardist so I fumbled my way around the fretboard. Our band was playing a lot of what was current in hard rock in the early 80s - BOC, AC/DC, Ozzy, Stones, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, Quiet Riot (remember them? - "BANG YOUR HEAD!!!"). At the time I picked up the bass, I had no real influences (since I didn't have any formal training and hadn't planned on being a bassplayer), but started to pay a bit of attention to the bassists in those bands. Joe Bouchard naturally was an influence, as well as Geezer Butler, Gene Simmons, Steve Harris, and I think maybe Rudy Szarzo (of Quiet Riot, Ozzy, and later Whitesnake) and Jimmy Bain (of Rainbow, but in particular Dio) may have been my biggest influences. After college in the mid-80s, I gave up the bass for about 10 years, and in the early 90s, decided to take it up again and try to learn the instrument a bit more. This is when I started learning more about some of the great bassists and listening more to their styles. I didn't keep up with the modern music as much in the 90s (how many of us who grew up in the 70s/80s did?), but a few bands would be interesting - aside from "classic rock" these days, I listen a lot to the blues. So, here's my list of some "great" bassists, in no particular order: Paul McCartney - I paid little attention to the Beatles until the mid-90s when I started studying the bass more. Perhaps no virtuoso (and technical ability is only one component of what might make any musician "great" IMHO), but he had a strong sense of the power of the bass to influence the feel of a song, and wove some wonderful counterpoint basslines in the Beatles' music - go listen to *Sgt. Pepper* and *Revolver* in particular, not to mention the bassline on "Come Together". The guy was a genius at making the bass more than just part of the "rhythm section". Gene Simmons - Stop laughing. Again, no virtuoso, but some of his basslines are fairly complex, when you take into account the relative simplicity of KISS' music. Gene taught me the power of the slide (Bawhoooo....), not to mention that the bassplayer CAN be the coolest guy in the band - and I still want one of his "Punisher" basses... "Dr. Love", "Rock and Roll All Night", and "She" have some great basslines. Steve Harris - I'm not sure virtuoso would be an apt term, but the guy had speed and energy in spades - what would Iron Maiden's songs have been without his galloping basslines driving the music along at breakneck speed (although IM doesn't seem to fit the definition of "speed metal") - listen to *The Number of the Beast* or *Piece of Mind* in particular. Steve also was perhaps a major reason that I started playing bass with my fingers instead of a pick. Joe Bouchard - Partly for sentimental reasons, since BOC is one of my favorite bands. Joe was not overly flashy, but he got the job done, and added a lot of subtlety in BOC's music that again I didn't appreciate until years later. I know we've all heard "Don't Fear the Reaper" a million times, but how many times have you listened to the BASS in that song? I didn't realize how much Joe was driving the song until I saw a bass TAB in a guitar magazine and then went back and really listened. Joe started as a guitar player, and I believe read somewhere that he approached the bass more as a guitar. I also love his playing on "Death Valley Nights" "Seven Screaming Dizbusters" and (of course) "Hot Rails to Hell". Rudy Szarzo/Jimmy Bain - Perhaps lesser lights in the galaxy of bassists, but I include them because I think they influenced my early bassplaying - very solid, with bits of flash. To this day I think the TONE of Jimmy's bass on those first few Dio albums (*Holy Diver* and *The Last in Line*) is the best I've ever heard (in particular the song "Shame on the Night") - heavy and edgy. And like Gene, Rudy showed a bassplayer looking really cool - and hey, some of those songs on the first Quiet Riot album were fun to play - "Metal Health", "Slick Black Cadillac", "Run For Cover" ... oh the memories... Stu Hamm/Billy Sheehan - Now we're talkin' virtuosos - I went to a Joe Satriani concert just to see Stu play. Both of them expanded the way you can use the bass in both a lead and supporting role. Yeah, they were flashy to excess at times, but when you play with the guitar virtuosos that they played, they obviously knew how to play in the pocket as well. Sheehan has some nice work on the first Mr. Big album, and Stu's "The Urge" is excellent. Geezer Butler - Again, someone I didn't appreciate as much until later in life, this guy knew how to riff with the best of 'em. Listen to the intros to "War Pigs" and "Fairies Wear Boots" - now that's BASS! Danny Miranda/Jon Rogers/Greg Smith - What bass-related discussion on a BOC forum would be complete without mentioning BOC's other bassists? While neither had an influence on my bass development, these guys (Miranda in particular) have great talent. Rogers never seemed to be really appreciated IMHO (maybe the fans just couldn't quite except someone other than Joe), but he really started the shift in BOC's live sound toward what it is today - changing the original basslines that Joe created -- in part losing some of the subtlety (which on a live stage, especially in the club settings that BOC was now playing, is probably o.k.), but also adding a bit more modern progressive edge to it. Danny would later continue this tradition, throwing in some more funk and jazz influence here and there, while still driving the beat (with BOC's more "pounding" drummers like John Miceli, Chuck Burgi, and Bobby Rondinelli). Danny IS "Monster Bass". Greg was with BOC so briefly that I almost forgot him, but I did see him live and he was an animal - although his 80s heavy-metal hairband look kinda clashed with look of the rest of BOC (who, by 1995, looked just a bit older...). Duck Dunn, Tommy Shannon (Stevie Ray Vaughn's bassist) - Two guys that can hold down the BLUES. Geddy Lee - A virtuoso, and probably isn't properly remembered today for some fantastic basswork - I particularly like stuff on Rush's *Permanent Waves* and *Moving Pictures* T.M. Stevens, Flea, Robert Trujillo (particularly his work with "The Infectious Grooves) -- when you want it FUNKY, these guys can slap and pop with the best. Here's a list of other great bassists that I've heard, with no particular comments: John Paul Jones, Pete Way, Jaco Pastorius, Roger Glover, Greg Lake, Flea (funky!), Noel Redding (Jimmy Hendrix), John Entwistle, Tom Hamilton (Aerosmith), Duff McKagan (Guns and Roses - more great bass TONE), Bootsy Collins, Kenny Aaronson, Bootsy Collins, Michael Manring, Randy Jackson (Shooting Shark), Mark "The Animal" Mendoza, Phil Kennemore (Y&T), and Ric Fiberraci (never heard of him? He's - and try not to laugh - the bassplayer for Yanni). Oh, and I like Derek Smalls (Spinal Tap) too... ;-) One other point about the development of bass in music. To me, it seems like the 80s was a decade of less creativity on the bass when compared to the 70s or 90s. In the 70s, you had the bass becoming more up-front in the mix, and the development of funk and a lot of bass in that decade seemed to really "move". In the 80s, when heavy metal took over, bands were dominated by the guitar, and there seemed to be much more simple basslines with bassplayers in a more subordinate role (Steve Harris of Iron Maiden would be a notable exception - there are others) - Cliff Williams of AC/DC may be the classic example. In the 90s, when grunge came along, a lot of the guitarists (partly by design, partly because some of them, when compared to guitarists of the 80s, sucked) took more of a backseat - meanwhile the tone of the bass became edgier (with more popping and slapping from the funk crowd) and really held the sound together. I'm not sure bassists in the 90s got enough credit for that (certainly not as much as the guitarists in the 80s), but I certainly hear it. Anybody still reading this? ;-) John PS: R.I.P. John Ritter - a guy that made me laugh many many times - even if I thought I was only watching "Three's Company" to see a little T&A (hey - I was starting puberty when the show first came on the air...), and who made me not only laugh in later life, but identify with the notion of raising teenage girls (which I will be officially doing in only a few short years). From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Fri Sep 12 10:34:25 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:34:25 +0800 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) - LONG!! In-Reply-To: <3F61D4D7.5081CCEB@mitre.org> Message-ID: Regarding Paul McCartney, he is probably the first person I spotted playing Bass left-handed. Not being left handed, nor being particularly good playing any type of guitar right-handed, I always thought that there must be so much extra work going into figuring out how to play the strings that way! I was also fond of Roger Waters' Bass playing, particularly the way he could use one or 2 very simple but repetitive riffs (Sheep being a prime example), yet still keep me interested even when he was repeating himself! William From chip at PCC.COM Fri Sep 12 12:07:21 2003 From: chip at PCC.COM (Chip Hart) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:07:21 -0400 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) - LONG!! In-Reply-To: <009a01c3793a$fed805a0$ddd73bcb@xl5>; from xl5@IINET.NET.AU on Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 10:34:25PM +0800 Message-ID: William Duffy wrote: > I was also fond of Roger Waters' Bass playing, particularly the way he > could use one or 2 very simple but repetitive riffs (Sheep being a prime > example), yet still keep me interested even when he was repeating > himself! I believe that David Gilmour actually played a lot of the bass that you hear recorded on the Floyd albums, especially for Animals. It explains a lot. -- Chip Hart - Marketing * Physician's Computer Company chip @ pcc.com * 1 Main St., Winooski, VT 05404 800-722-7708 * http://www.pcc.com/~chip f.802-846-8178 * Smarter Pediatric Practices From chip at PCC.COM Fri Sep 12 12:09:42 2003 From: chip at PCC.COM (Chip Hart) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:09:42 -0400 Subject: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) - LONG!! In-Reply-To: <3F61D4D7.5081CCEB@mitre.org>; from jswartz@MITRE.ORG on Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 10:14:47AM -0400 Message-ID: John Swartz wrote: > Paul McCartney > Gene Simmons > Steve Harris > Joe Bouchard What do your 4 favorite bassists have in common? They're all _songwriters_. Each of these guys contributed significantly, if not completely, to their bands' songwriting. Perhaps that's the common thread. I'm glad that someone else pointed out Jason Newsted's early playing (when he, too, wrote the songs and was allowed to play). -- Chip Hart - Marketing * Physician's Computer Company chip @ pcc.com * 1 Main St., Winooski, VT 05404 800-722-7708 * http://www.pcc.com/~chip f.802-846-8178 * Smarter Pediatric Practices From keith.henderson at PSI.CH Fri Sep 12 12:11:31 2003 From: keith.henderson at PSI.CH (Henderson Keith) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:11:31 +0200 Subject: Great Bassists and lefties Message-ID: William hat gesagt... > Regarding Paul McCartney, he is probably the first person I spotted > playing Bass left-handed. > I was also fond of Roger Waters' Bass playing, Well, these two bits of dialogue reminded me of the following... Earlier, I mentioned something about being astounded by seeing Josh Pollock (of U. of Errors, and now the Acid Mothers-Gong band) play left-handed with a right-handed guitar flipped over...but without inverting the strings. Which to me, who's never really ever tried to play a guitar (remotely seriously), seemed like a crazy idea. But I was told by much more knowledgeable folks here, that quite a few lefties have learned it this way over the years. And lo and behold, I got the Roger Waters live DVD not too long ago (I was pretty impressed...not really liking anything he's done since The Wall, but then this relied heavily on old Floyd mat'l... and to put in a HW related comment, Snowy White, who somehow is part of the Hawkwind family, but I've forgotten how, puts in a rather tasty solo during 'Set the controls...' among other bits), and the main lead guitarist was Doyle Bramhall and yep...he plays the same way! And really, it looks so unnatural the way he strums or 'arpeggios' *up* the fretboard, but he does it skillfully and so I guess it works for him, so who am I to think it's goofy? :) Presumably, he learned to play on his dad's guitars (is he a righty?) and he wouldn't let junior restring them. Grakkl (FAA) P.S. This Amon Duul II (c. 1969) DVD is set to come out in just a few days, but I'm guessing it will only ever be released as a PAL Region 2 DVD...so make sure you can play it before ordering. Does anybody know what program (?) this is...or how long it is? Or whether it's previously unreleased live music/concert? http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000C42GL/qid=1063381997/ too long, so cut-and-paste the below onto the end in your URL line... sr=10-2/ref=sr_sp_bow/028-8139034-3282956 P.P.S. The stuff about bass playing for guitarists who couldn't cut it? (did somebody suggest, and/or themselves refute?) Well, I agree, as I listen to early Porcupine Tree and hear Steve Wilson play some really-not-very-good basslines. Obviously, some separate skills there...again, this is coming from a "non-participant" so... From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Fri Sep 12 12:22:29 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:22:29 +0800 Subject: Great Bassists and lefties In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >and to put in a HW related comment, Snowy White, who somehow is part of the Hawkwind family, but I've forgotten how< I could be wrong, but did he appear on one of Steve Swindells' albums? >P.S. This Amon Duul II (c. 1969) DVD is set to come out in just a few days, but I'm guessing it will only ever be released as a PAL Region 2 DVD...so make sure you can play it before ordering. Does anybody know what program (?) this is...or how long it is? Or whether it's previously unreleased live music/concert?< There was a Can box set a few years ago that had a video with it as well. Anyone have info on that one? William From stemfors at PIPELINE.COM Fri Sep 12 12:27:41 2003 From: stemfors at PIPELINE.COM (Stephan Forstner) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:27:41 -0400 Subject: Great Bassists and lefties Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:22:29 +0800, William Duffy wrote: >>and to put in a HW related comment, Snowy White, who somehow is >part of the Hawkwind family, but I've forgotten how< > >I could be wrong, but did he appear on one of Steve Swindells' albums? > I don't think so, at least he's not on Fresh Blood. He did play on Michael Moorcock & the Deep Fix's New World's Fair however. Stephan From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Fri Sep 12 12:38:31 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:38:31 +0800 Subject: Great Bassists and lefties In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I knew it was something. I think it was Huw on Fresh Blood. -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Stephan Forstner Sent: Saturday, 13 September 2003 12:28 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: Great Bassists and lefties On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:22:29 +0800, William Duffy wrote: >>and to put in a HW related comment, Snowy White, who somehow is >part of the Hawkwind family, but I've forgotten how< > >I could be wrong, but did he appear on one of Steve Swindells' albums? > I don't think so, at least he's not on Fresh Blood. He did play on Michael Moorcock & the Deep Fix's New World's Fair however. Stephan From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Sep 12 14:46:04 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:46:04 -0400 Subject: Great Bassists and lefties In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 06:11:31PM +0200, Henderson Keith wrote: => Well, these two bits of dialogue reminded me of the following... => Earlier, I mentioned something about being astounded by seeing => Josh Pollock (of U. of Errors, and now the Acid Mothers-Gong band) => play left-handed with a right-handed guitar flipped over...but => without inverting the strings. Which to me, who's never really => ever tried to play a guitar (remotely seriously), seemed like a => crazy idea. But I was told by much more knowledgeable folks here, => that quite a few lefties have learned it this way over the years. I believe the legendary blues musician Albert King played guitar like this. Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From hw at CY-B.ORG Fri Sep 12 17:28:31 2003 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:28:31 -0400 Subject: HW: GIG INFO....... Message-ID: + ++ + ++ STAR WARRIORS + + + + + ++ GIG INFO: Hawkwind Play Exeter Phoenix Centre on 25th October 2003 The Phoenix Arts Centre Bradninch Place, Gandy Street, Exeter, Devon, EX4 3LS Telephone 01392 667080 Fax 01392 667599 Further info: boxoffice at exeterphoenix.org.uk Venue: Doors - 8.00pm Curfew - 12 midnight Full Bar & Cafe facilities available Ticket Pricing: ?15 (standing only) Concessions are available to those who are unwaged, registered disabled, under 16, students, over 60s, in receipt of family credit and Exeter Phoenix Friends. One complimentary ticket for every group of 10 people. (Buy 10 tickets, only pay for 9) Bookings: All major credit/debit cards accepted subject to a 50p charge. There is also a 50p booking fee for non-Phoneix promotions. Out of hours, leave a message and a member of staff will contact you. Online Booking: reservations at exeterphoenix.org.uk (see the Phoenix website for full reservation conditions at http://www.exeterphoenix.org.uk/ ) Further Venue and TransportDetails on Mission Control: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hwind/to_.htm + ++ + ++ MESSAGE ENDS + + + ++ From kkusic at EXECPC.COM Fri Sep 12 17:56:49 2003 From: kkusic at EXECPC.COM (Karen Kusic) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:56:49 -0400 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers Message-ID: (my message has been rejected 4 times - hope this one goes through ...) OK - It's pretty unlikely that we'll see a Hawkwind/Monster Magnet tour. I can still hope but it's not in the works. This is as much as Ron from pbgadget.com knows about the latest Monster Magnet news: -- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:24:55 -0500 From: Ron Faiola To: Subject: Re: tour rumors I don't know about MM with HW. Would be cool... Dave recently fired Jon Kleiman (drums) and Joe Calandra (bass). They were with the band from the beginning and the their departure was not pretty. MM has a new rhythm section and they've played a few shows in Europe. Also, A&M dropped the band a while back and now they're on the German label SPV (I've enclosed a photo of Phil Caivano with label mate Lemmy). Ron -- I posted the pic here: http://www.claim.to/spacerock/douglemmyphil.html Not sure who "Doug" is! Let's see who's the first BOC-ler to identify him. Sorry ... no prize ... ;) Karen From mlicht at CYBERMESA.COM Fri Sep 12 19:17:46 2003 From: mlicht at CYBERMESA.COM (Mark Licht) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:17:46 -0600 Subject: HW: GIG INFO....... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Unwaged? Is this UK-speak for self-employed or unemployed? Just asking. Mark PS My consolation to not being able to attend this year's Hawkfest was looking forward to November's tour. Now that this fall's North American tour won't be happening, please don't tell me that next spring's tour with the mystery group won't be coming through New Mexico. -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List Subject: Re: HW: GIG INFO....... + ++ + ++ STAR WARRIORS + + + + + ++ GIG INFO: Hawkwind Play Exeter Phoenix Centre on 25th October 2003 Concessions are available to those who are unwaged, registered disabled, under 16, students, over 60s, in receipt of family credit and Exeter Phoenix Friends. One complimentary ticket for every group of 10 people. From dplaw at IC24.NET Fri Sep 12 20:38:22 2003 From: dplaw at IC24.NET (Dave Law) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:38:22 -0400 Subject: HW: Bob Calvert - marital status! Message-ID: i've had an enquiry via the hawkwind museum from a chap who researches authors and is currently investigating the novelist Pamela Townley who was married to Bob. however in doing so he has also found references to "Bob's wife Jill". i know it's a bit of a funny question but does anybody know what the score is here, was he married twice. whilst i realise that this is Hawkwind conected i'm not sure that a long thread regarding Mr Calvert and his personal arrangements is neccessarily appropriate to the list so if anybody can help but would prefer to keep the topic off list then feel free to e-mail me at dl006a5789 at blueyonder.co.uk and i'll pass the relevant information on. all the best for now regards dave From dahl at AROS.NET Sat Sep 13 01:11:20 2003 From: dahl at AROS.NET (Brad Dahl) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:11:20 -0600 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: >>>Anyone have any more to share? Bryan Beller (Z, Mike Keneally, Mullmuzzler, recorded with Steve Vai and toured with Wayne Kramer). His first solo album (View) is coming out next month. Fabulous performances by everyone involved (the drumming is superb) and showcases his bass skills nicely without being overbearing. He's a freakin' wizard. I enjoyed your bassist list and comments, Doug. Brad From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Sat Sep 13 01:24:08 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:24:08 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/13/2003 12:58:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, dahl at AROS.NET writes: > Anyone have any more to share? > Algy Ward Tom Petersen Neil Murray John Gustafson ---------------------------------------------------------- Cesar Zuiderwijk and Rinus Gerritsen John Wetton and Bill Bruford Cliff Williams and Phil Rudd (in the above pairings, don't think one should be mentioned without the other.) bobm From nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Sep 13 04:01:40 2003 From: nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM (Nick Medford) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 04:01:40 -0400 Subject: OFF: Great Bassists (was100 Greatest Guitarists) Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:24:08 EDT, RMayo19761 at AOL.COM wrote: >Algy Ward Hmmm... only know his work with The Damned, but it's strongly rumoured that much of the bass on their recorded works while he was in the band was actually played by Sensible. The Capt. himself stops short of saying that but had this to say in an interview... [B] Machine gun etiquette, I've heard stories that all the bass playing on that was played by you. Is that True? [C] Well Algy had this thing about whisky. Algy's a lovely bloke but he could get quite aggressive. If the bloke from the record company (Roger Armstrong), who was also producing the album with us didn't get the bevies in Algy would get extremely agitated and would smash things. So you had to get him a bottle of whisky to keep him quiet. He would drink half the bottle and then would be good for about half an hours bass playing. Anything he did after that would be completely out to lunch unfortunately. So I would have to repair bits and bobs, yeah. He knew all the songs he just couldn't handle the liquor. ... an interview which can be found in full at http://freeradicalsounds.com/captain/sensible.htm complete with eccentric opinions on everything including the Spice Girls (!) Nick From hw at CY-B.ORG Sat Sep 13 06:49:45 2003 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 06:49:45 -0400 Subject: HW: A message from deep space Message-ID: + ++ + + ++ +STAR WARRIORS + + + + + + FORTHCOMING RELEASES: We will soon be releasing a single featuring Matthew Wright and Lene Lovich.... Also, at the end of September, Secret Records will be releasing a DVD of the band from the last tour. Recorded in Newcastle, the DVD also features extras such as an interview with Dave, and a cover by artist Rodney Matthews. HawkFest 2003 was also recorded, and may also be released as a DVD ! Also in the pipeline is a 2CD live release that was recorded at Walthamstow 2002, at our Xmas party gig....... Also being released is compilation CD from Hawkfest 2002, and a compilation album with other friends of HW........ Our gig at the Melkweg in Amsterdam, Aug 2003, was also recorded in 24 track, and could possibly make release at some stage..... Always tune in to Mission Control for the latest updates www.hawkwind.com STUDIO ALBUM: Our new studio album will have a cover artwork by artist Peter Pracownik, and as things stand, should contain the following tracks on release; REALITY OF POVERTY, ANGELA ANDROID, LAND OF DREAMS, A LETTER TO ROBERT, CYBERSPACE, SUNRAY, DIGITAL NATION, TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER, SPARKLES & SLIDE (Working Title). It's possible/likely that more tracks may appear on the final cd. + + ++ + MESSAGE ENDS + ++ + ++ From lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET Sat Sep 13 07:05:58 2003 From: lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET (Stephe Lindas) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 07:05:58 -0400 Subject: HW: A message from deep space Message-ID: Hi, Who will be selling this stuff? I want one of each. Can't wait. Cheers Stephe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Rx" To: Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 6:49 AM Subject: Re: HW: A message from deep space > + ++ + + ++ +STAR WARRIORS + + + + + + > > FORTHCOMING RELEASES: > > We will soon be releasing a single featuring Matthew Wright and Lene Lovich.... Also, at the end of September, Secret Records will be releasing > a DVD of the band from the last tour. Recorded in Newcastle, the DVD also features extras such as an interview with Dave, and a cover by artist > Rodney Matthews. HawkFest 2003 was also recorded, and may also be released as a DVD ! Also in the pipeline is a 2CD live release that was > recorded at Walthamstow 2002, at our Xmas party gig....... Also being released is compilation CD from Hawkfest 2002, and a compilation album > with other friends of HW........ Our gig at the Melkweg in Amsterdam, Aug 2003, was also recorded in 24 track, and could possibly make release > at some stage..... > > Always tune in to Mission Control for the latest updates www.hawkwind.com > > STUDIO ALBUM: > Our new studio album will have a cover artwork by artist Peter Pracownik, and as things stand, should contain the following tracks on release; > REALITY OF POVERTY, ANGELA ANDROID, LAND OF DREAMS, A LETTER TO ROBERT, CYBERSPACE, SUNRAY, DIGITAL NATION, > TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER, SPARKLES & SLIDE (Working Title). > > It's possible/likely that more tracks may appear on the final cd. > > > + + ++ + MESSAGE ENDS + ++ + ++ From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Sat Sep 13 11:10:38 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 11:10:38 EDT Subject: OFF: Great Bassists algy ward Message-ID: In a message dated 9/13/2003 4:02:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, nickmedford at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > I've heard stories that all the bass playing on > that was played by you. Is that True? > this is BS; if you've heard his playing in the Saints, the Damned, and in Tank, you know it's the same guy. bobm From colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Sep 13 14:43:49 2003 From: colin at CALLEN18.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Colin J Allen) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:43:49 +0100 Subject: HW: GIG INFO....... Message-ID: Unemployed. Please note that this electronic mail system is not intended to form any legal contract or binding agreement. This is for information purposes only. Please also note that this message should not be interpreted as any form of valid information. You use the information contained in this message at your own risk. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Licht" To: Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 12:17 AM Subject: Re: HW: GIG INFO....... > Unwaged? Is this UK-speak for self-employed or unemployed? > Just asking. > > Mark > > > PS My consolation to not being able to attend this year's Hawkfest was > looking forward to November's tour. Now that this fall's North American > tour won't be happening, please don't tell me that next spring's tour with > the mystery group won't be coming through New Mexico. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List > Subject: Re: HW: GIG INFO....... > > > + ++ + ++ STAR WARRIORS + + + + + ++ > > GIG INFO: > > Hawkwind Play Exeter Phoenix Centre on 25th October 2003 > > > > > Concessions are available to those who are unwaged, registered disabled, > under > 16, students, over 60s, in receipt of family credit and Exeter Phoenix > Friends. > One complimentary ticket for every group of 10 people. > From ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET Sat Sep 13 23:10:27 2003 From: ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET (Tim) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:10:27 -0400 Subject: boc:test Message-ID: testing...testing 8>)... From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Sun Sep 14 11:54:33 2003 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:54:33 +0100 Subject: off: test Message-ID: Just testing. From ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET Sun Sep 14 09:18:48 2003 From: ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET (Tim) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:18:48 -0400 Subject: BOC:new date? Message-ID: at the orlando florida downtown music series last night... saw gary wright (spooky tooth,`dreamweaver'),great show (free too). according to stage announcement on the 27th of this month the band will be BOC (not originally scheduled). So if you're within driving distance, mark your calendars. tim 8>)... From lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET Sun Sep 14 13:07:44 2003 From: lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET (Stephe Lindas) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:07:44 -0400 Subject: test Message-ID: What are you testing? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Lee" To: Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 11:54 AM Subject: off: test > Just testing. From chaosillumi at CHAOSILLUMI.F9.CO.UK Sun Sep 14 16:28:35 2003 From: chaosillumi at CHAOSILLUMI.F9.CO.UK (Chaos Illumination) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:28:35 +0100 Subject: OFF:Re: test Message-ID: Our patience? ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephe Lindas" To: Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 6:07 PM Subject: Re: test > What are you testing? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nick Lee" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 11:54 AM > Subject: off: test > > > > Just testing. > From lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET Sun Sep 14 16:49:53 2003 From: lindas1 at ADELPHIA.NET (Stephe Lindas) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:49:53 -0400 Subject: OFF:Re: test Message-ID: Mental patience??? :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chaos Illumination" To: Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 4:28 PM Subject: OFF:Re: test > Our patience? ;-) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephe Lindas" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: test > > > > What are you testing? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nick Lee" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 11:54 AM > > Subject: off: test > > > > > > > Just testing. > > From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Sun Sep 14 18:32:07 2003 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:32:07 +0100 Subject: OFF:Re: test In-Reply-To: <000701c37b01$bfe0cb70$4450a944@amyandstephe> Message-ID: S'ok, you all passed with flying colours. -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Stephe Lindas Sent: 14 September 2003 21:50 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: Re: OFF:Re: test Mental patience??? :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chaos Illumination" To: Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 4:28 PM Subject: OFF:Re: test > Our patience? ;-) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephe Lindas" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: test > > > > What are you testing? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nick Lee" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 11:54 AM > > Subject: off: test > > > > > > > Just testing. > > From erics at TELEPRES.COM Mon Sep 15 13:41:52 2003 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:41:52 -0400 Subject: HW: Bob Calvert - marital status! In-Reply-To: ; from dplaw@IC24.NET on Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 08:38:22PM -0400 Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 08:38:22PM -0400, Dave Law wrote: > i've had an enquiry via the hawkwind museum from a chap who researches > authors and is currently investigating the novelist Pamela Townley who was > married to Bob. http://music.lycos.com/pictures/fullimage.asp?QW=hawkwind > however in doing so he has also found references > to "Bob's wife Jill". That's the one I'd heard of (specifically, she's been mentioned a few times here on BOC-L). > i know it's a bit of a funny question but does anybody know what the score > is here, was he married twice. Guess so... -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / When I came back around from the dark side, there in front of me would be the landing area where the crew was, and the Earth, all in the view of my window. I couldn't help but think that there in front of me was all of humanity, except me. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 Command Module Pilot From kkusic at EXECPC.COM Tue Sep 16 00:36:29 2003 From: kkusic at EXECPC.COM (Karen Kusic) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:36:29 -0400 Subject: OFF: poem - "Market Forces" by Thom the World Poet Message-ID: Had to share this poem from Thom the World Poet who I met in Ohio at a spacerock event a few years ago. Last week, I was going to buy some more music CDs (when I have a stack I haven't even listened to yet) and instead, bought some poetry books and CDs from Thom! He's one of my favorite artists too who deserves support for his wonderful work. http://www.geocities.com/worldpoet_2000/ As someone who has had a glimpse of an 8 track tape but never owned an 8 track player ... what were they like? Really superior sound? Did they go the way of Beta videotapes versus VHS? Thought this kind of tied into our discussion of where music/media and the "album" concept was heading. Thanks, Karen -- MARKET FORCES us ,compliant ,to buy only what is available- bell bottoms,short skirts,tattoes,earrings to fit in to prevailing fascist fashions even if we do not want to that is all there is. Try buying an 8 track! Even though the sound is far superior to tape or Cd They are redundant technology-obsolete as we who issue moralistic warnings about the impending collapse of Western civilisation For many that means only shopping malls rap mmusic and fashion until we become more than cartoon hippies more than consumers-until we can create and communicate brighter visions this will be Cassandra's wailing wall Diogenes with his privitised utilities lamp seeking in streets something more than Malls and getting mauled by the rush to Nordstrom. THOM AUGUST 17,2003 -- From jmajk at INDY.RR.COM Tue Sep 16 02:00:47 2003 From: jmajk at INDY.RR.COM (John Majka) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:00:47 -0500 Subject: poem - "Market Forces" by Thom the World Poet Message-ID: > As someone who has had a glimpse of an 8 track tape but never owned an 8 > track player ... what were they like? Really superior sound? Did they > go the way of Beta videotapes versus VHS? Thought this kind of tied > into our discussion of where music/media and the "album" concept was > heading. Even when 8-tracks were on the market, I always thought they were awful things... really dreadful, muddy sound and then there were those annoying fade ins and fade outs... total crap really, and I'm glad to be rid of them. Cassette was far superior. John Majka From jswartz at MITRE.ORG Tue Sep 16 09:20:00 2003 From: jswartz at MITRE.ORG (John Swartz) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:20:00 -0400 Subject: BRAIN, BOC: tBS coming back to Boston Message-ID: After about a 6 year hiatus, the Brain Surgeons will be back in Boston (Cambridge actually) on November 22nd at TT the Bears. Hope to see some of you there! John From soltanic at YAHOO.COM Tue Sep 16 14:46:50 2003 From: soltanic at YAHOO.COM (Allen Shaw) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:46:50 -0700 Subject: HW: Bob Calvert - marital status! In-Reply-To: <20030915134152.A19935@telepres.com> Message-ID: Probably at least twice. he had a son or two not from his marriage with jill. --- Eric Siegerman wrote: > On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 08:38:22PM -0400, Dave Law > wrote: > > i've had an enquiry via the hawkwind museum from a > chap who researches > > authors and is currently investigating the > novelist Pamela Townley who was > > married to Bob. > > http://music.lycos.com/pictures/fullimage.asp?QW=hawkwind > > > however in doing so he has also found references > > to "Bob's wife Jill". > > That's the one I'd heard of (specifically, she's > been mentioned a > few times here on BOC-L). > > > i know it's a bit of a funny question but does > anybody know what the score > > is here, was he married twice. > > Guess so... > > -- > > | | /\ > |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. > erics at telepres.com > | | / > When I came back around from the dark side, there in > front of me would > be the landing area where the crew was, and the > Earth, all in the view > of my window. I couldn't help but think that there > in front of me was > all of humanity, except me. > - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 Command Module Pilot __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From coral at APORT.RU Tue Sep 16 15:50:54 2003 From: coral at APORT.RU (Alisa) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:50:54 +0400 Subject: HW: Bob Calvert - marital status! Message-ID: Three marriages and four children. It seems to me it was on Knut Gerwers website. But I can mistake... Alisa > Probably at least twice. > he had a son or two not from his marriage with jill. From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Tue Sep 16 16:06:23 2003 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (IAN ABRAHAMS) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:06:23 +0100 Subject: HW: Bob Calvert - marital status! Message-ID: Yes, I think this was right - he was married before his original involvement with Hawkwind. Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alisa" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 8:50 PM Subject: Re: HW: Bob Calvert - marital status! > Three marriages and four children. > > It seems to me it was on Knut Gerwers website. But I can mistake... > > Alisa > > > Probably at least twice. > > he had a son or two not from his marriage with jill. > > From dplaw at IC24.NET Tue Sep 16 17:17:38 2003 From: dplaw at IC24.NET (Dave Law) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:17:38 -0400 Subject: HW: Posh, Becks and Matthew Wright Message-ID: whilst sitting watching the goggle box with yet another documentry on how David Beckham will settle into life in Madrid, who should pop up giving their ten peneth's worth on the subject but top hawk fan and sometimes guest vocalist Matthew Wright one wonders then what he would make of these recently discovered pictures that i've just posted to the museum of somebody who at least in these circles is as famous as Mr Beckham, but up until now their prowess on the football field has remained a secret. curious? then click here to find out more http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/hawkwind1.htm ok, so it was just a shameless plug but Matthew was on this programme, infact it's still on as i type, it's on ITV1, check it out! From hw at CY-B.ORG Tue Sep 16 17:38:36 2003 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:38:36 -0400 Subject: HW: Cambridge - May 2003 Pictures Message-ID: + + ++ + STAR WARRIORS + + + Our Pictures from CAMBRIDGE, taken on the first date of our spring 2003 tour are now online (at last)... :-} Direct URL: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hwind/gigs/st_2003/Cam2003/cam_00.htm + + ++ + Message ends + + + From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Sep 17 06:45:07 2003 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:45:07 +0100 Subject: HW: Updates and Teazers In-Reply-To: Andrew Garibaldi's message of Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:08:42 +0100 Message-ID: Andrew Garibaldi writes: > Any other bizarre experiences for the sake of great concerts anyone? Back in 92 or 93 I headed off for a series of gigs. York staretd with the girlfriend splitting with me because I'd actually gone for the tour as planned (hey, she was invited too). I then met up with Ande Tucker in Cardiff and that was a great gig too. Ande drove us to Wolverhampton for the next one, and then on to Slough. We dropped my stuff at a B&B and Ande then drove to the town centre with me trying to memorise the route so that I could find the B&B again. Ande had an appointment and couldn't stay for the Slough gig. Anyway, the gig was great and I came out of the student union around midnight, three sheets to the wind. I couldn't find a taxi. So I made a drunken decision to walk back. Now a lot of the streets in Slough look like an awful lot of the other streets in Slough. Two hours later I was wandering around a suburb quite sure that my B&B was there somewhere. But finally I gave up and walked back into town, the finding of which took another two hours. I finally found a taxi and got back to the B&B just after 5am. I had to get up for a train at 6.20 am. I woke up very tired and with the hangover from hell. Walking down the road about 50 yards I discovered the very postbox where I'd given up looking the night before. I've never been back to Slough. FoFP From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Sep 17 06:46:26 2003 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:46:26 +0100 Subject: Off: Updates and Teazers In-Reply-To: Maxine Wesley's message of Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:29:54 -0000 Message-ID: Maxine Wesley writes: > >From: Andrew Garibaldi > >Any other bizarre experiences for the sake of great concerts anyone? > > At each Rock 'n' Blues, when Hawkwind have played, I have been unable > to locate my tent afterwards Wow! Does that happen to you too?? That's just strange. FoFP From iainferguson at AOL.COM Wed Sep 17 09:19:07 2003 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:19:07 +0100 Subject: HW: Bizaare gig experiences Message-ID: an amusing incident a few years back..... upon travelling down (the night b4) to see Hawkwind in Exeter some years ago now, We stopped at the Somerset services outside Taunton.. it was late in the evening and we'd been very busy with the rizzla's and the munchies had kicked in big style. I sat in the foyer of the services in a Bhudda like position singing and chanting "cabinet Key, Cabinet key", the lads and Lassies with me were all sat infront cross legged , head bowed, chanting back Boinga gBoing ( the mouth harp part of Flying Dr) Who should walk past at that very moment with the biggest grin on the planet, none other than Harvey Bainbridge, and guess what, they even played flying Dr and as he said that night this is for the for the space cadets in the services, hope you've got your Cabinet key.... From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Wed Sep 17 10:15:31 2003 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:15:31 +0100 Subject: OFF: Future of music... In-Reply-To: Henderson Keith's message of Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:24:53 +0200 Message-ID: Henderson Keith writes: > I was just thinking about all the recent news about idiotic record > companies suing 12-year old kids and the like for downloading music. Given that the question of copyright is now essentially a political one, I wonder whether this behaviour will really prove productive in the long run. People excuse themselves for copyright theft on the basis that the companies are evil oligarchs. Having the media full of 12 year olds being crucified in Court will merely reinforce this. It is, as someone said, like buggy whip manufacturers suing Henry Ford's customers. > And this talk I now read about how CDs are already being 'replaced' by > more immediate and fluid media, essentially a hard drive full of > musical data that every kid will carry around with him. And that > seems to me like a revolution that, unlike vinyl-to-cassette-to-CD or > whatever, will really change the nature of how artists and listeners > 'communicate' or 'connect' with each other. Indeed. > And I can only see it in > a negative sense I'm afraid. Perhaps. Or perhaps because songs will become simple commodities, the industry will again have to find "margin" in promoting performances. It isn't quite so easy to download the experience of being at a concert. I wouldn't see that as a Bad Thing. > OK, maybe I can already see how nice it is for people to go to a show > by some largely-unknown but taping-friendly band, record the thing on > a minidisc player with great sound, download the concert and put it up > on a site where anyone can come and listen for themselves and burn > copies to keep forever. I wonder how many are collected, rather than heard. > But then when it comes to studio works, it > seems that this '99c-a-song' culture really makes an ARTist feel like > the ART is being taken away from them. No, it's being even more commodified, which isn't quite the same thing. It's really Warhol's Campbell's Soup idea applied to music. I'm hopeful that this will ultimately extend choice. > It's like a cafeteria culture > suddenly, where the consumer is now scooping up whatever flavors and > portions they want and forgetting the rest. I dunno...so much of > 'our' type of music has always been of the conceptual, coherent, or > inter-linked kind, that I can't imagine a future with an alphabetical > list of song titles that I can't put together into coherent little > units called things like "Levitation" or "Space Bandits." And have a > picture in my mind (I mean the album art of course) that I 'see' > whenever I think or hear that music live. To me, if "music is the > soundtrack of life," I don't want that life to be simply a Greatest > Hits compilation album. I daresay that orchestras thought that music was being commodified when the vinyl record was invented. Technology changes and introduces new possibilities while leaving some of the old ways looking rather quaint. People still go to see classical performances despite the LP and CD, though maybe not so often, and people will still buy CD's, though perhaps not so many. > And I think the culture of this goes *way* beyond music, too. In > (American) sports (at least), and maybe European too (with Asia hardly > caring what team ole Becks played for these days), one can see this > pattern too, with the 'team fandom' at certain times lagging behind > the 'star fandom,' because the Jordan's and Kobe Bryant's and Shaq's Who? > are bigger entities and forces than entire franchises. And anyway, so > many sports fans are rewriting the sports (as offered) by being in > these so-called 'fantasy' leagues, which to me is quite an interesting > analogy to this online music phenomenon. I'm afraid though, that this > "free-choice-overload" that can happen with modern things like > satellite TV, TiVo, cell phones/SMS, etc. is now taking hold in music > so much so, that even though right now it seems only to be important > for that Big Ugly Leviathan (that is the pop music industry) and of no > concern of ours, I still wonder if it will forever alter the way that > commerce, distribution, manufacturing, recording contracts, tours, > etc. works that *all* of the industry will be overhauled completely > in 10 years. (That's quite a sentence, innit?) I'm certain that it will. I'm sorry to say it, but something like the above paragraph and it's mourning of a passing way of life has been written against every technology that permitted some new way of life. people are already starting to eulogise the Space Shuttle and we still don't even have a drawing of the rocket that will replace it. I doubt we'll see winged spaceflight again in our lifetimes though after a few more Shuttle flights. > So I wonder...will (non-kollektor) people still be fighting on Ebay > for that rare CD reissue of "25 Years On" in 10 years, just because > they can't find the CD in any stores? I'm still fighting on Ebay for 60 year old xmas lights... > Or will the > existence/availability of CDs even *matter* then, 'cause most people > would have already 'caved' and turned their collections into data? And > what will happen to those who can't think of anything but the old > 'hard-copy' type of collection? Will they find that there are no > longer any stores in which to buy product in, and no state-of-the-art > devices that are geared toward their (antequated) choice of media? There will still be retro markets. You can buy vinyl players now if you look hard enough. > As a non-artist, and therefore industry lay-person, I can't predict > what's happening, Conversely, I've been expecting something like this for 15-20 years. I didn't get the details quite right but I did expect in '85 that we'd one day be able to walk in to a record shop with no records; choose a dozen tracks from damn near every piece of musc that's ever been made, possibly by listening to someone's recommendation on headphones; and walk out with something, probably solid state, with it all recorded on it by the time I'd finished a coffee. What I mainly got wrong of course was that most people will be able to do this without even going to the shop. It's different, but think of all the choice! No more "Oh we don't stock that stuff sir." > 'cause I don't hang around the kids that are driving > the culture these days. I'm guessing that many of them don't > appreciate the value of a self-contained 40- or 60-minute 'opera' of > music, that was carefully written, organized, planned, recorded, > produced, packaged, and offered to the public under a meaningful > title, with an intent to be consumed as such, and remembered as such, > long into the distant future. Kids of today eh? No appreciation of proper music. I'm glad our parents understood that we were a different kettle of fish. > Is this form of expression really going > to die? Not completely. > (And how deep will it go...all the way down to 'us'...or > really just for 'them'?) 10 years from now it'll seem completely normal even to us. Just how newfangled do CD's seem to you now? > Or will it somehow still exist, or be > recreated in a new image, within the new 'data' culture? > Thoughts anyone? To quote from a great Hawkwind gig "He's getting on you know..." The record companies are going to have to be part of the movement or part of the road. They've been fossilised in a business model that's been fairly easy money for the big guys for 50 years. Now it's a real low-margin commodity, just like the computers themselves. Selling plastic with music on it isn't going to easily make millionaires of the intermediaries any more. The artists can talk to their public and market to them directly and there'll only be pennies to be had from being in the middle after disintermediation is complete. The power will pass to reviewers, because people will have to know what to try, and to good artists. The biz has to go for remaining high-margin product: live appearances and memorabilia. If this leads to more bands appearing in my town, which is very at the margin, then I'll not be complaining. FoFP From eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 17 11:40:05 2003 From: eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM (eddie jobson) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:40:05 +0000 Subject: HW: Bizaare gig experiences Message-ID: Bit boring this one, but the only incident I can think of off of the top of my head. On the 1982 tour we traveled down to Tunbridge Wells in thick snow, went into a pub before the gig and Harvey and Martin Griffin were on the table next to us. We had only been there a few minutes when for a reason that escapes me, Martin had an argument with the Bar Manager where he eventually stormed out of the pub calling it a 'shabby provincial pub' and later signed our programs with the same comment. My twopenneth. Eddie. >From: Iain Ferguson >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >Subject: Re: HW: Bizaare gig experiences >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:19:07 +0100 > >an amusing incident a few years back..... > >upon traveling down (the night b4) to see Hawkwind in Exeter some years >ago now, We stopped at the Somerset services outside Taunton.. it was >late in the evening and we'd been very busy with the rizzla's and the >munchies had kicked in big style. > >I sat in the foyer of the services in a Bhudda like position singing and >chanting "cabinet Key, Cabinet key", the lads and Lassies with me were >all sat infront cross legged , head bowed, chanting back Boinga gBoing >( the mouth harp part of Flying Dr) > >Who should walk past at that very moment with the biggest grin on the >planet, none other than Harvey Bainbridge, and guess what, they even >played flying Dr and as he said that night > >this is for the for the space cadets in the services, hope you've got >your Cabinet key.... _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From neil.shilladay at MICROLISE.COM Wed Sep 17 11:59:03 2003 From: neil.shilladay at MICROLISE.COM (Neil Shilladay) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:59:03 +0100 Subject: HW: Bizaare gig experiences Message-ID: I remember seeing Bedouin in a biker club near Chesterfield in spring 2000 (I think) Me & my wife turned up at the venue, there were about 3 people on the door, we paid & went in. We were the only ones there & the band were in mid soundcheck. Ok I thought, this is cool. We sat down and chatted to Alan about the Hawkestra & Jethro Tull (?!). Time passed. I think a few other people turned up. More time passed. Come 9ish, the band took to the stage in front of an audience of about 4. It was excellent music, but it was a bit surreal when the band outnumbered the audience. I felt sorry for the band, but glad they still performed the full set. To this day, I don't know why it was such a poor turnout. Cheers Neil. Any views or opinions presented in this Email message are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Microlise Group unless otherwise specifically stated. Email communications are not necessarily secure and therefore the Microlise Group does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, please notify Microlise immediately. Microlise Group Limited +44(0)1773 537000 From dplaw at IC24.NET Wed Sep 17 12:27:37 2003 From: dplaw at IC24.NET (Dave Law) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:27:37 -0400 Subject: HW: Bizaare gig experiences Message-ID: in a similar vein to Neils experiences, i once saw the Lloyd langton Group at the Pink Toothbrush in Rayleigh where the audience numbered if my memory serves me correctly 19, which considering the venue could quite happily hold 400 or so made for a somewhat "quiet" gig as far as crowd reaction goes. i was there with 3 other mates and although i didn't really know him at the time, co curator of the hawkwind museum, Simon was also present, between us we made up over a quarter of the audience. as Neil says with Bedouin, LLG could not be faulted and played on regardless and made the best of a somewhat embarrasing situation. what was even weirder was we'd seen them at the old Marquee club in Wardour St only the previous week and the place was heaving, but obviously Rayleigh was not one of there "Strongholds" regards dave On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:59:03 +0100, Neil Shilladay wrote: >I remember seeing Bedouin in a biker club near Chesterfield in spring 2000 >(I think) > >Me & my wife turned up at the venue, there were about 3 people on the >door, we paid & went in. >We were the only ones there & the band were in mid soundcheck. Ok I >thought, this is cool. We sat down and chatted to Alan about the Hawkestra >& Jethro Tull (?!). > >Time passed. I think a few other people turned up. More time passed. >Come 9ish, the band took to the stage in front of an audience of about 4. > >It was excellent music, but it was a bit surreal when the band outnumbered >the audience. > >I felt sorry for the band, but glad they still performed the full set. To >this day, I don't know why it was such a poor turnout. > >Cheers >Neil. > > > >Any views or opinions presented in this Email message are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Microlise Group unless otherwise specifically stated. >Email communications are not necessarily secure and therefore the Microlise Group does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. > >If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, please notify Microlise immediately. > >Microlise Group Limited +44(0)1773 537000 From sloterdijk at MSN.COM Wed Sep 17 18:22:30 2003 From: sloterdijk at MSN.COM (Burro Mike) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:22:30 +0000 Subject: We need your e-mails to help gain momentum for The OEB/Brain Surgeons show in AC Message-ID: Greeting friends, Thanks to all for your continued support etc.. As many of you may already know, we are playing a very nice show with The Brain Surgeons in Atlantic City, New Jersey on Friday, October 17th ( see http://cellsum.com under tourdates for a direct link to McGuire's Erin Bar & Hotel). We are hoping to set the city aflame with Rock-n-Roll that night, and we need your help! All you have to do is drop an e-mail enquiring about the show, ie, times, admission, directions etc to: ODDSMAKER7 at aol.com This is John the owner of the venue. We want him to know he is going to be getting a great crowd, and we are asking for your e-mails of support, in an effort to have him advertise the gig more heavily. Also if you plan to stay in the hotel that night ( click on site link provided above), you might want to start making reservations soon. This gig is promoting The Brain Surgeons' 'Beach Party' album, and so you can walk right to the beach if you want. At this point The OEBs will be using a 4-5 person lineup, currently consisting of: Mike Burro: guitar & vocals Jay Adcock: djembe Jeff Berry: Bass Greg Elwell: electric rhythm & lead guitars We will be playing a mixture of OEB & SLOTERDIJK tunes, so you know you'll hear a Hawkwind cover or two. The Brain Surgeons will be mixing their newer material with Blue Oyster Cult classics, so this should prove to be quite a fun show for all BOC/HW fans!!!! Peace, Mike Burro http://theoneeyedbishops.iuma.com http://www.mp3.com/sloterdijk _________________________________________________________________ Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. https://broadband.msn.com From CWarburton at OAG.COM Thu Sep 18 07:50:45 2003 From: CWarburton at OAG.COM (CWarburton at OAG.COM) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:50:45 +0100 Subject: OFF: Future of music... Message-ID: > From: M Holmes >--snip--< > The biz has to go for remaining high-margin product: live appearances > and memorabilia. If this leads to more bands appearing in my > town, which is very at the margin, then I'll not be complaining. > > FoFP However, this somewhat disturbing item got posted to the BelewTribe group ************************************************************************* Ticketmaster Auction Will Let Highest Bidder Set Concert Prices By CHRIS NELSON Three years after Ticketmaster introduced ticketFast, its online print-at-home ticketing service, consumers have so embraced it that the company now sells a half-million home-printed tickets for sporting and entertainment events each month in North America. Where ticketFast is available, 30 percent of tickets sold are now printed at home, said the company, which is by far the nation's largest ticket agency. But consumers, many of whom have complained for years about climbing ticket prices and Ticketmaster service charges, may be less eager for the next phase of Ticketmaster's Internet evolution. Late this year the company plans to begin auctioning the best seats to concerts through ticketmaster.com. With no official price ceiling on such tickets, Ticketmaster will be able to compete with brokers and scalpers for the highest price a market will bear. "The tickets are worth what they're worth," said John Pleasants, Ticketmaster's president and chief executive. "If somebody wants to charge $50 for a ticket, but it's actually worth $1,000 on eBay, the ticket's worth $1,000. I think more and more, our clients; the promoters, the clients in the buildings and the bands themselves are saying to themselves, `Maybe that money should be coming to me instead of Bob the Broker.'" EBay has long been a busy marketplace for tickets auctioned by brokers and others. Late last week, for example, it had more than 22,000 listings for ticket sales. Venue operators, promoters and performers will decide whether to participate in the Ticketmaster auctions, Mr. Pleasants said. In June, the company tested the system for the Lennox Lewis-Vitali Klitschko boxing match at the Staples Center in Los Angeles. The minimum bid for the package; two ringside seats, a boxing glove autographed by Mr. Lewis and access to workouts, among other features was $3,000, and the top payer spent about $7,000, a Staples Center spokesman, Michael Roth, said. Once the auction service goes live, Ticketmaster will receive flat fees or a percentage of the winning bids, to be decided with the operators of each event, said Sean Moriarty, Ticketmaster's executive vice president for products, technology and operations. Along with home printing, auctions are central to "a new age of the ticket," Mr. Pleasants said. In the second quarter of this year, tickets sold online, with or without home printing, represented 51 percent of Ticketmaster's ticket sales. The rest were sold by phone or at walk-up locations. Ticket Forwarding allows season ticket holders for several sports teams (including the New York Knicks, Rangers and Giants) to e-mail extra tickets to other users, with Ticketmaster charging the sender $1.95 per transaction. TicketExchange provides a forum for season ticket holders to auction tickets online. The seller and buyer pay Ticketmaster 5 percent to 10 percent of the resale price, a fee the company splits with the team. In the case of the ticketFast home-printing service, buyers pay an additional $1.75 to $2.50 per order, with the fee set by the event operator. Home printing has won converts among people who want tickets immediately, instead of receiving them by mail or a delivery service or having to stand in line at a will-call window. One satisfied customer is Brian Resnik, 29, of Tampa, Fla., who says the home-printing fee is a bargain compared with the $19.50 that Ticketmaster charges for two-day shipping through United Parcel Service. But some other users, who praised the convenience of home printing, objected to being charged an extra fee. "It's kind of mind-boggling to me," said Joe Guckin, 41, of Philadelphia, who used ticketFast to buy tickets for a Baltimore Orioles home game last season. "You're printing up the ticket, on your printer at home, your paper, your ink, etc. and you have to pay for that?" The company replies that home-printing consumers are helping to pay for the technology that makes the service possible. Ticketmaster has spent $15 million to $20 million to outfit almost 700 stadiums, arenas, theaters and concert halls in this country and Canada with bar-code scanners that read and authenticate the tickets and computers that capture information such as which seats are filled and which doors have the most traffic, Mr.Moriarty said. In 2003, the company has sold 400,000 to 600,000 ticketFast tickets each month. Some ticketFast customers, like Diane DeRooy, 52, of Seattle, complain that Ticketmaster assesses a lot of fees even before levying the print-at-home charge. A ticket to see Crosby, Stills & Nash on Friday at the PNC Bank Arts Center in Holmdel, N.J., for example, carries $13.80 in venue, processing and convenience fees, plus a $2.50 charge for the home-printing option. Without the fees, a ticket costs $30.25 to $70.25. Many of those customers are skeptical about Ticketmaster's plans to auction the best seats to concerts. "The band's biggest fans ought to have the best seats, not the band's richest fans," said Tim Todd, 47, of Kansas City, Mo., who used ticketFast recently to buy tickets for a concert by the rock group Phish. Ticketmaster would be, in essence, official scalpers, Mr. Guckin said, voicing a sentiment expressed by some other customers. Industry watchers agree that auctions will affect all concertgoers. Prime seats are undervalued in the marketplace, said Alan B. Krueger, a professor at Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, who has studied ticket prices. He predicts that once auctions begin revealing a ticket's market value, prices as a whole will climb faster. Gary Bongiovanni, editor of the concert industry trade magazine, Pollstar, predicted that all ticket prices would become more fluid. After a promoter assesses initial sales from an auction, remaining ticket prices could be raised or lowered to meet goals. The notion of ticket auctions is annoying, Mr. Resnik said, but he is resigned to them. "I guess the capitalist inside me would say, `Hey, if that's what they can get for tickets, I guess that's just something I can't afford, like a yacht and a Learjet.' " *********************************************************************** And it's also somewhat worrying to see this from http://www.billions.com ************************************************************************ BILLIONS DISCONTINUES ONLINE TICKETING We regret to announce that our experimentation with online ticketing on this site has come to a disappointing end. Ticketmaster's market-strangling greed has generated an offensive against MusicToday's ticketing services which were designed to offer tickets to fans with smaller surcharges. The positive reaction of music fans to this offer has so threatened Ticketmaster's predatory business model that they have forced new restrictions on band's websites and those such as Billions Online that sell tickets through the MusicToday system. Under the new terms, fans would be forced to register for a new user name and password for every single artist for whom they wanted to purchase tickets through our site. In addition, we would only be able to offer tickets to events in Ticketmaster-controlled venues during a very limited pre-sale window. The net effect would be fewer tickets sold and much higher costs to Billions to coordinate the announcement and administration of on-sale dates. Particularly given that we feel the modified service would be of significantly reduced value to our visitors, we have little choice but to shut it down altogether. Once again in America, money wins. We regret the inconvenience. ***************************************************************** Which cropped up in connection with the increasingly incestuous and unhealthy relationship between TicketBastard & ClearChannel (who own a billboard near you). CC have sold their stake in JazzFM and somewhat disingenuously deny any current plans to move into UK radio when restrictions on ownership are lifted. I believe they do already own some venues in the UK. MacConcert anybody??? I'd be feeling depressed if it weren't for having seen Radio Birdman (sssssssmokin!) at the w/e and Mountain'n'Stray last night. Cheers dudes ChrisW From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Sep 18 09:45:32 2003 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:45:32 +0100 Subject: OFF: Future of music... In-Reply-To: CWarburton@OAG.COM's message of Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:50:45 +0100 Message-ID: CWarburton at OAG.COM writes: > > Ticketmaster Auction Will Let Highest Bidder Set > Concert Prices > By CHRIS NELSON > > > Three years after Ticketmaster introduced ticketFast, its online > print-at-home ticketing service, consumers have so embraced it that > the company now sells a half-million home-printed tickets for > sporting and entertainment events each month in North America. > Where ticketFast is available, 30 percent of tickets sold are now > printed at home, said the company, which is by far the nation's > largest ticket agency. > > But consumers, many of whom have complained for years about climbing > ticket prices and Ticketmaster service charges, may be less eager for > the next phase of Ticketmaster's Internet evolution. > > Late this year the company plans to begin auctioning the best seats > to concerts through ticketmaster.com. [...] Initial thoughts: 1) I don't understand the headline they use. The model doesn't price tickets at the highest bid. Indeed that would be an economic nonsense since by definition, the ticket is only worth that price to the highest bidder. The models which would generate highest revenue would be individual ticket pricing with each going to its own highest bidder. The simpler model, adopted by Singapore when auctioning licenses to use cars in the city, is to auction N tickets with the price being set for all at the level of the Nth highest bid. This loses some revenue but gains on the administrative convenience of tickets being sold at the same price. Obviously with concerts, some tickets are worth more than others due to position, but some banding based on that model would be reasonable. 2) This would destroy the scalping business since as the article points out, the sellers themselves are selling at the free market price and there's therefore no real consumer surplus for the scalpers to garner. The only market would be in fans who would have bid higher than the Nth bid who somehow forgot to enter the bidding, and I suspect that wouldn't be enough for a scalper to live on, or to take the rsik of effectively holding the option. 3) This is good in that it garners the consumer surplus previously available to scalpers to the ticket sellers, and gives it, assuming some sort of efficient market, to the acts and promoters themselves. I'm skeptical that the ticket distributors can get much of this since there's at least some competition in the market. 4) I'm always wary of the "unfair to poor fans" argument since auctions permit the tickets to be sold to the keenest fans. Sure, they might not be able to afford the tickets but that's true at any price above zero anyway. It's down to what the cost is worth in other terms. People can always sell cars, records, houses, whatever to get the money, and if they don't, what they're saying is that those things are worth more to them than the ticket. The job of the auction is to find those people who want to spend the money on the ticket rather than other things and those will be the most keen fans. People who'll travel internationally to see a band won't cavil about paying more for the ticket if it guarantees they'll get one. In short, IMHO: Bravo Ticketmaster! FoFP From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Thu Sep 18 12:03:47 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:03:47 -0400 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding In-Reply-To: <200309181345.h8IDjWpo010928@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 02:45:32PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: => The models which would generate highest revenue would be individual => ticket pricing with each going to its own highest bidder. The simpler => model, adopted by Singapore when auctioning licenses to use cars in the => city, is to auction N tickets with the price being set for all at the => level of the Nth highest bid. This is a Dutch Auction, in eBay terms, for those that know about eBay. Will TicketMaster be using the Dutch Auction model in its bid-for-tickets system? The only thing I remember the article saying was that in their boxing trial run, a minimum bid was set by TicketMaster, and the highest "winning" bid was $7000. => This loses some revenue but gains on the => administrative convenience of tickets being sold at the same price. ...and TicketMaster is all about convenience. :-\ => 3) This is good in that it garners the consumer surplus previously => available to scalpers to the ticket sellers, and gives it, assuming => some sort of efficient market, to the acts and promoters themselves. Well, since TicketMaster deals a lot with sheds that it owns (indirectly), then I guess they've found a way of diverting money from scalpers to themselves. Unfortunately, as the SCI lawsuit shows, TicketMaster are a bit greedy about sharing the wealth, and would rather be exclusive ticket sellers for events. But, hey, why complicate matters by allowing some kind of choice as to where you can buy your ticket? ;-) I do agree that higher ticket sales may allow promoters to solicit a higher performance fee, so some of the increased profit may "trickle down" to the actual acts. Unfortunately, because TicketMaster also owns the venues, too, in many markets, then are in a position to dictate terms strongly: accept this deal or find somewhere else to play! (Good luck, buddy!) => The job of the auction is to find those people who => want to spend the money on the ticket rather than other things and those => will be the most keen fans. If you can tell me a way to write off ticket prices as a business expense, then I'm sure I *might* have a fighting chance showing how "keen" a fan I am against corporations that routinely buy choice seats to schmooze clients. (I know someone who worked in sales for a very large industrial firm that had to do precisely this kind of schmoozing.:) But even then, I doubt my pockets are as deep. So I guess I'm not as "keen" a fan after all. (Note that said schmoozer I know said he often had tickets go unused, either because the client wasn't interested in that event, or because he'd have a basket of things from which to choose. The upshot being that some of the "keenest" fans at some concerts were totally invisible...;) I've heard tell that a lot of those small-theatre shows that the Rolling Stones played "for the true fans" on their USA tour were mostly populated by Hollywood stars and corporate types that needed to be seen to be there. Luckily, I think it's easier to prove your loyalty as a fan when you earn $20 million per movie than when you don't. :-) => People who'll travel internationally to see => a band won't cavil about paying more for the ticket if it guarantees => they'll get one. Yeah. I don't know of anyone who complains when they have to pay more for something. It didn't happen when Virginia Tech started selling "guarantees" of getting your free student ticket to Virginia Tech football games. (NOT!) (Prior to that, the actual "keen fans" would camp out on the lawn beside Cassell Coliseum a day or so before tickets would become available for a given game, to be sure they were first in line and could get one. Now, "keen fans" only have to be sure to get their [extra] $39 cheque into the Althletics department on time before the season starts. On the non-student side, the amount of your "voluntary donation" determines from which crop of seats you may choose. The higher your "voluntary donation," the better your seat will be, although---it should be stressed---all tickets cost the same price, we are assured. It's only the "voluntary donation" that differs.;) => In short, IMHO: Bravo Ticketmaster! Yes, thank you for realising that you, too, can get in on the scalping game due to the handy monopoly you exercise (at least in the USA). It seems to me that this is just moving money from scalpers to TicketMaster, but effectively extending scalping to all seats, not just the prime ones. I like TicketMaster about as well as I do Microsoft, so forgive me if I don't join in your round of applause. :-) Perhaps one day there will be reached a price level at which large numbers of people decide it's "too expensive," and hence prices will have to come down to increase attendance. Until that time, I guess an ever-shrinking number of buyers will dominate the prices upwards. I know that I have stopped going to a lot of live events because I can no longer afford to. I'm not the only one, too, who is tired of the ever-widening and increasing "convenience charges" being piled on. I know it rankles others, too, when you pay half as much again as the face price in "convenience charges." But, because TicketMaster is the only game in town in many cases, you either have to lump it or not go. If ticket prices increase, more people will choose the latter, I believe. Bravo TicketMaster! IMHO, TicketMaster is a de facto monopoly, and they are increasingly exploiting that position. Bravo TicketMaster! :-( Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Thu Sep 18 12:29:28 2003 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:29:28 +0100 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding In-Reply-To: Paul Mather's message of Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:03:47 -0400 Message-ID: Paul Mather writes: > => This loses some revenue but gains on the > => administrative convenience of tickets being sold at the same price. > > ...and TicketMaster is all about convenience. :-\ Fair point :-( > => 3) This is good in that it garners the consumer surplus previously > => available to scalpers to the ticket sellers, and gives it, assuming > => some sort of efficient market, to the acts and promoters themselves. > > Well, since TicketMaster deals a lot with sheds that it owns > (indirectly), then I guess they've found a way of diverting money from > scalpers to themselves. Ah. I guess so then. > Unfortunately, as the SCI lawsuit shows, > TicketMaster are a bit greedy about sharing the wealth, and would > rather be exclusive ticket sellers for events. But, hey, why > complicate matters by allowing some kind of choice as to where you can > buy your ticket? ;-) Worrying, but I guess it's reasonable to allow owners to make their own tickeet arrangements(*) > I do agree that higher ticket sales may allow promoters to solicit a > higher performance fee, so some of the increased profit may "trickle > down" to the actual acts. Unfortunately, because TicketMaster also > owns the venues, too, in many markets, then are in a position to > dictate terms strongly: accept this deal or find somewhere else to > play! (Good luck, buddy!) (*) Yes, clearly barriers to entry etc provide some interference with markets and therefore monopolistic pricing. Still, even Ticketbastard can't auction something for more than a bidder is willing to pay so basically this is at worst still just a cash transfer from scalpers to Ticketbastard themselves? > => The job of the auction is to find those people who > => want to spend the money on the ticket rather than other things and those > => will be the most keen fans. > > If you can tell me a way to write off ticket prices as a business > expense, then I'm sure I *might* have a fighting chance showing how > "keen" a fan I am against corporations that routinely buy choice seats > to schmooze clients. (I know someone who worked in sales for a very > large industrial firm that had to do precisely this kind of > schmoozing.:) But even then, I doubt my pockets are as deep. So I > guess I'm not as "keen" a fan after all. (Note that said schmoozer I > know said he often had tickets go unused, either because the client > wasn't interested in that event, or because he'd have a basket of > things from which to choose. The upshot being that some of the > "keenest" fans at some concerts were totally invisible...;) I see the inefficiency here too. Clearly it'd be more efficient just to schmooze by giving the scmoozee cash to spend as they like, and this would then avoid distorting the tickets' markets. However, presumably this isn't done because it makes these bribes recogniseable for exactly what they are. The solution is to ban in kind bribes as well as the cash sort. > I've heard tell that a lot of those small-theatre shows that the > Rolling Stones played "for the true fans" on their USA tour were > mostly populated by Hollywood stars and corporate types that needed to > be seen to be there. Well OK, but that just means it was more important for them to be there than it was for sonme fan. > Luckily, I think it's easier to prove your > loyalty as a fan when you earn $20 million per movie than when you > don't. :-) In the same way that it's easier to buy a beer. > => People who'll travel internationally to see > => a band won't cavil about paying more for the ticket if it guarantees > => they'll get one. > > Yeah. I don't know of anyone who complains when they have to pay more > for something. They're not. They're just paying Ticketbastard instead of a scalper. Unless of coure the scalpers weren't very efficient prior to all this, but I'm assuming that the change is coming about because, through Ebay, they were all too efficient. > (Prior to that, the actual "keen fans" would camp out on the lawn > beside Cassell Coliseum a day or so before tickets would become > available for a given game, to be sure they were first in line and > could get one. Now, "keen fans" only have to be sure to get their > [extra] $39 cheque into the Althletics department on time before the > season starts. On the non-student side, the amount of your "voluntary > donation" determines from which crop of seats you may choose. The > higher your "voluntary donation," the better your seat will be, > although---it should be stressed---all tickets cost the same price, we > are assured. It's only the "voluntary donation" that differs.;) OK, I'm not sure I get all this but basically I'm happier to get into a bidding war than I am to sleep on the pavement all night and to some extent scalping came down to basically paying someone to do the pavement thing. > => In short, IMHO: Bravo Ticketmaster! > > Yes, thank you for realising that you, too, can get in on the scalping > game due to the handy monopoly you exercise (at least in the USA). Scalpers had the money before anyway and that didn't do us much good. At least if Ticketbastard can get some monopoly profits then it raises the return on organising more concerts, so it's still a plus to us. > It seems to me that this is just moving money from scalpers to > TicketMaster, but effectively extending scalping to all seats, not > just the prime ones. I like TicketMaster about as well as I do > Microsoft, so forgive me if I don't join in your round of applause. :-) That's OK Paul, I really didn't expect you to. I'm still optimistic that we'll have a rare old discussion on this one over several pints one day.... > Perhaps one day there will be reached a price level at which large > numbers of people decide it's "too expensive," and hence prices will > have to come down to increase attendance. Maybe, but I suspect that would happen in such an environment of falling disposable incomes that a lot of us would still be out of the game. > Until that time, I guess an > ever-shrinking number of buyers will dominate the prices upwards. That doesn't make sense: if there are monopolistic profits to be had from gigs, it raises the gain from having more gigs. > I know that I have stopped going to a lot of live events because I can > no longer afford to. I'm not the only one, too, who is tired of the > ever-widening and increasing "convenience charges" being piled on. I > know it rankles others, too, when you pay half as much again as the > face price in "convenience charges." But, because TicketMaster is the > only game in town in many cases, you either have to lump it or not go. > If ticket prices increase, more people will choose the latter, I > believe. Bravo TicketMaster! I'm kinda on your side on this one and similarly suspicious of all these transaction charges. How's the monopoly protected? FoFP From si at SICKTHINGSUK.CO.UK Thu Sep 18 13:27:32 2003 From: si at SICKTHINGSUK.CO.UK (Si Halley) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:27:32 +0100 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding Message-ID: At the risk of being seen as a conspiracy theorist (not that there`s anything wrong with them) the following occured to me. If I have any facts wrong then I apologise, I`m no expert. 1. Record industry is, they say, in trouble claiming they are losing millions due to downloading. 2. The big record corps have very close ties to US Radio now that it seems to have been taken over by Clear Channel stations, who are part of Time/Warner/AOL/etc megacorp (the record companies) in some way. So they have the Product, advertising and venues tied up to one massive megacorp. and can dictate what you hear and what you can see. 3. As they have failed completely to stop people downloading, they are going to recoup the money elsewhere via the closely connected ticket agency Ticketmaster, who are now going to scalp the fans for as much as their pocket can bare (and more), which will undoubtably cause a increase in credit card debt as fans of the various bands/teams/sportmen desperate to get tickets bid stupid amounts to get them in the heat of the moment (be honest, we`ve all done it in one way or another, paying more then we should have to for something). 4. So the record companies main buying audience (the fans) are skint and in debt, can`t go to big shows anymore and can`t buy all the various releases (and rereleases with bonus tracks etc) so they download them for free instead instead.... Hmmm... Si "The Eyes Of Alice Cooper" - In Stores 22nd September 2003 ------------ The Alice Cooper Trivia File: http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk UK Unofficial Alice Cooper Convention: http://www.sickcon.co.uk From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Thu Sep 18 13:47:00 2003 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (IAN ABRAHAMS) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:47:00 +0100 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding Message-ID: I dunno, it was just real nice to ring the Phoenix in Exeter, talk to a human being, be charged 50p for booking Hawkwind tickets and 30p for posting them. A far cry from the way these things usual work! Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Holmes" To: Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 5:29 PM Subject: Re: OFF: TicketMaster bidding > Paul Mather writes: > > > => This loses some revenue but gains on the > > => administrative convenience of tickets being sold at the same price. > > > > ...and TicketMaster is all about convenience. :-\ > > Fair point :-( > > > => 3) This is good in that it garners the consumer surplus previously > > => available to scalpers to the ticket sellers, and gives it, assuming > > => some sort of efficient market, to the acts and promoters themselves. > > > > Well, since TicketMaster deals a lot with sheds that it owns > > (indirectly), then I guess they've found a way of diverting money from > > scalpers to themselves. > > Ah. I guess so then. > > > Unfortunately, as the SCI lawsuit shows, > > TicketMaster are a bit greedy about sharing the wealth, and would > > rather be exclusive ticket sellers for events. But, hey, why > > complicate matters by allowing some kind of choice as to where you can > > buy your ticket? ;-) > > Worrying, but I guess it's reasonable to allow owners to make their own > tickeet arrangements(*) > > > I do agree that higher ticket sales may allow promoters to solicit a > > higher performance fee, so some of the increased profit may "trickle > > down" to the actual acts. Unfortunately, because TicketMaster also > > owns the venues, too, in many markets, then are in a position to > > dictate terms strongly: accept this deal or find somewhere else to > > play! (Good luck, buddy!) > > (*) Yes, clearly barriers to entry etc provide some interference with > markets and therefore monopolistic pricing. Still, even Ticketbastard > can't auction something for more than a bidder is willing to pay so > basically this is at worst still just a cash transfer from scalpers to > Ticketbastard themselves? > > > => The job of the auction is to find those people who > > => want to spend the money on the ticket rather than other things and those > > => will be the most keen fans. > > > > If you can tell me a way to write off ticket prices as a business > > expense, then I'm sure I *might* have a fighting chance showing how > > "keen" a fan I am against corporations that routinely buy choice seats > > to schmooze clients. (I know someone who worked in sales for a very > > large industrial firm that had to do precisely this kind of > > schmoozing.:) But even then, I doubt my pockets are as deep. So I > > guess I'm not as "keen" a fan after all. (Note that said schmoozer I > > know said he often had tickets go unused, either because the client > > wasn't interested in that event, or because he'd have a basket of > > things from which to choose. The upshot being that some of the > > "keenest" fans at some concerts were totally invisible...;) > > I see the inefficiency here too. Clearly it'd be more efficient just to > schmooze by giving the scmoozee cash to spend as they like, and this > would then avoid distorting the tickets' markets. However, presumably > this isn't done because it makes these bribes recogniseable for exactly > what they are. The solution is to ban in kind bribes as well as the cash > sort. > > > I've heard tell that a lot of those small-theatre shows that the > > Rolling Stones played "for the true fans" on their USA tour were > > mostly populated by Hollywood stars and corporate types that needed to > > be seen to be there. > > Well OK, but that just means it was more important for them to be there > than it was for sonme fan. > > > Luckily, I think it's easier to prove your > > loyalty as a fan when you earn $20 million per movie than when you > > don't. :-) > > In the same way that it's easier to buy a beer. > > > => People who'll travel internationally to see > > => a band won't cavil about paying more for the ticket if it guarantees > > => they'll get one. > > > > Yeah. I don't know of anyone who complains when they have to pay more > > for something. > > They're not. They're just paying Ticketbastard instead of a scalper. > Unless of coure the scalpers weren't very efficient prior to all this, > but I'm assuming that the change is coming about because, through Ebay, > they were all too efficient. > > > (Prior to that, the actual "keen fans" would camp out on the lawn > > beside Cassell Coliseum a day or so before tickets would become > > available for a given game, to be sure they were first in line and > > could get one. Now, "keen fans" only have to be sure to get their > > [extra] $39 cheque into the Althletics department on time before the > > season starts. On the non-student side, the amount of your "voluntary > > donation" determines from which crop of seats you may choose. The > > higher your "voluntary donation," the better your seat will be, > > although---it should be stressed---all tickets cost the same price, we > > are assured. It's only the "voluntary donation" that differs.;) > > OK, I'm not sure I get all this but basically I'm happier to get into a > bidding war than I am to sleep on the pavement all night and to some > extent scalping came down to basically paying someone to do the pavement > thing. > > > => In short, IMHO: Bravo Ticketmaster! > > > > Yes, thank you for realising that you, too, can get in on the scalping > > game due to the handy monopoly you exercise (at least in the USA). > > Scalpers had the money before anyway and that didn't do us much good. At > least if Ticketbastard can get some monopoly profits then it raises the > return on organising more concerts, so it's still a plus to us. > > > It seems to me that this is just moving money from scalpers to > > TicketMaster, but effectively extending scalping to all seats, not > > just the prime ones. I like TicketMaster about as well as I do > > Microsoft, so forgive me if I don't join in your round of applause. :-) > > That's OK Paul, I really didn't expect you to. I'm still optimistic that > we'll have a rare old discussion on this one over several pints one day.... > > > Perhaps one day there will be reached a price level at which large > > numbers of people decide it's "too expensive," and hence prices will > > have to come down to increase attendance. > > Maybe, but I suspect that would happen in such an environment of > falling disposable incomes that a lot of us would still be out of the > game. > > > Until that time, I guess an > > ever-shrinking number of buyers will dominate the prices upwards. > > That doesn't make sense: if there are monopolistic profits to be had > from gigs, it raises the gain from having more gigs. > > > I know that I have stopped going to a lot of live events because I can > > no longer afford to. I'm not the only one, too, who is tired of the > > ever-widening and increasing "convenience charges" being piled on. I > > know it rankles others, too, when you pay half as much again as the > > face price in "convenience charges." But, because TicketMaster is the > > only game in town in many cases, you either have to lump it or not go. > > If ticket prices increase, more people will choose the latter, I > > believe. Bravo TicketMaster! > > I'm kinda on your side on this one and similarly suspicious of all these > transaction charges. > > How's the monopoly protected? > > FoFP > > From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Thu Sep 18 14:36:48 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:36:48 -0400 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding In-Reply-To: <000401c37e0c$de26d4e0$fa23fea9@r1e1j2> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 06:47:00PM +0100, IAN ABRAHAMS wrote: => I dunno, it was just real nice to ring the Phoenix in Exeter, talk to a => human being, be charged 50p for booking Hawkwind tickets and 30p for posting => them. A far cry from the way these things usual work! Or to walk into your local theatre's office (The Lyric in Blacksburg) and buy front-row tickets to the upcoming Derek Trucks Band show and be charged just face value for the ticket with no additional charges whatsoever. Oddly enough, the last time I tried to buy tickets in person via TicketMaster (at our local Kroger supermarket, who once had a franchise), they wouldn't sell me any. It was for an Allman Brothers Band show at the Nissan Pavilion up in Northern Virginia. They claimed that was in "a different [geographical] market" and they weren't allowed to sell tickets for shows in that market. What is strange is that you can buy tickets for shows in the Virginia Beach area, as well as North Carolina---all of which are as far as or further away than the Nissan Pavilion. :-\ So, in the end, I had to buy the tickets via the WWW, with an extra Internet "convenience" charge being levied, in addition to having to pay their not-exactly-cheap postage fees. :-( Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From hw at CY-B.ORG Thu Sep 18 16:03:48 2003 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:03:48 -0400 Subject: HW: I Got An.......... Message-ID: Wanna feel greater? http://orgone.org/IOOeng/ortk1.htm#oracsales From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Thu Sep 18 16:23:07 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:23:07 EDT Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding Message-ID: Of course, the verbiage 'bidding on the best seats' will quickly change to '... all seats', and only 'high bidders' will get to see Ticketmaster-related events in the end. those brilliant, evil bastards. this is a good thing. this will divide touring rock bands into two camps: those who are in it for the money, playing for a small number of high-end snobs, or bands who want to perform for the most people possible with a cheap ticket. i know where i'll be. So Ticketmaster will be to good REAL rock shows as the Major Labels are to good REAL rock music. see you underground bobm "It's extraordinary how potent cheap music can be." -Noel Coward From blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM Thu Sep 18 16:34:21 2003 From: blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM (Brian Halligan) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:34:21 -0400 Subject: BOC: Guster's Red Oyster Cult Message-ID: The college-rock band has a song called "Red Oyster Cult" on their latest album. The lyrics are below. I suppose the writer is equating BOC with his youth and playing music without worrying about "changing the world." > Doesn't it bring you down > So many lights and sounds > Call your mom on the telephone > Tell her you're coming home > Tell her there's not a chance > You're ever going to change the world > If you want to be free, take a sip of this tea > Join the red oyster cult > If you drink the whole cup, you will never grow up > You will never grow old > Remember when you were 14 > You'd paint every picture so green > Call your mom on the telephone > Tell her your muse is gone > Tell her there's not a chance > You're ever going to change the world > Just a few drops away, you'll never want to change the world > If you want to be free, take a sip of this tea > Join the red oyster cult > If you drink the whole cup, you will never grow up > You will never grow old > Call your mom on the telephone > Tell her you're coming home > Tell her there's not a chance you're ever going to change the world > Just a few drops away > You'll never have to change ----- Brian Halligan Copywriter BrandOrchard (p) 585-232-7060 274 N. Goodman Street (f) 585-232-7068 Rochester, NY 14607 (e) halligan at BrandOrchard.net BrandOrchard builds brands for companies in early growth or on the cusp of strategic change. We blend strategy, creativity and cultural development to produce stronger customer relationships and financial gain for our clients. From RMayo19761 at AOL.COM Thu Sep 18 16:47:34 2003 From: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM (RMayo19761 at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:47:34 EDT Subject: BOC: Guster's Red Oyster Cult Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2003 4:34:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM writes: > I suppose the writer is equating BOC with his > youth and playing music without worrying about "changing the world." > reads like it's either a drug song or a suicide song to me; either way, about resigning yourself to failure, or at the least, mediocrity. growing up and accepting that your youthful dreams amount to nothing. sad! bobm "It's extraordinary how potent cheap music can be." -Noel Coward From blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM Thu Sep 18 17:03:00 2003 From: blackblade at BHALLIGAN.COM (Brian Halligan) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:03:00 -0400 Subject: BOC: Guster's Red Oyster Cult In-Reply-To: Message-ID: RMayo19761 at AOL.COM wrote: > reads like it's either a drug song or a suicide song to me; either way, about > resigning yourself to failure, or at the least, mediocrity. growing up and > accepting that your youthful dreams amount to nothing. sad! Yeah, there's a definite drug reference there. You're probably right about the song's theme. I'm an incurable optimist though, so I'll just believe it's about reclaiming the joy of youth. I mean, I don't remember wanting to change the world when I was younger. Just beating Carl Lewis in the 100m dash in the 2000 Olympics. It would've been sweet. Brian From jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK Thu Sep 18 17:59:26 2003 From: jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Jill Strobridge) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:59:26 +0100 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding Message-ID: I'm not convinced this will necessarily work at all - except perhaps for shows that are inevitable sell-outs and maybe not even then. If only the "best seats" are up for auction then people will know that other seats are available at a lower price. I'm far from sure what a "best seat" is at a show (and in many cases standing is the preferred option even when there are seats!) so I would guess people will pull out of bidding and simply try and get a seat in row 5 rather than rows 1-4 (or whatever). If all the seats are up for auction then what happens to the tickets are aren't sold in the bidding war? Will they be available on sale at the door at a fixed price? If so then people are likely to ignore the bidding and simply turn up on the night. Or if all the tickets must only be sold by bidding then people will wait until the last minute in the expectation that prices might drop or there might be "special offers" - two tickets for the price of one - or one ticket and a free drink - or buy three tickets and we promise you a free taxi drive home - five tickets and get a backstage pass - as the number of unsold tickets becomes an increasingly significant factor. This might indeed spark a last minute bidding flurry but that's hardly likely to offer any financial security either to the venue or to the band. Or am I missing something here? jill ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jill Strobridge ----------------------------------------------------------------- From hw at CY-B.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:04:40 2003 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:04:40 -0400 Subject: HW: Gig info & New Pictures Message-ID: ++STAR WARRIORS + ++ ++ + Full details of our EXETER gig on OCTOBER 25th are on Mission Control http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hwind/to_.htm More pictures from our Rock & Blues gig from July 2003 are now online: Page 1: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hwind/gigs/rb2003/RB03t.htm Page 2: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hwind/gigs/rb2003/RB03t2.htm + + MESSAGE ENDS + + + + From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Sep 19 08:33:58 2003 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:33:58 +0100 Subject: HW: I Got An.......... In-Reply-To: Rik Rx's message of Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:03:48 -0400 Message-ID: Rik Rx writes: > Wanna feel greater? > > http://orgone.org/IOOeng/ortk1.htm#oracsales Hmmmm, does it have a beer holder? FoFP From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Sep 19 11:56:18 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:56:18 -0400 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding In-Reply-To: <200309181629.h8IGTSrK000717@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 05:29:28PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: => > I've heard tell that a lot of those small-theatre shows that the => > Rolling Stones played "for the true fans" on their USA tour were => > mostly populated by Hollywood stars and corporate types that needed to => > be seen to be there. => => Well OK, but that just means it was more important for them to be there => than it was for sonme fan. Or, alternatively, that it was easier for them to facilitate being there, by virtue of having deeper pockets to procure what soon became very expensive tickets. My point in mentioning the "for the true fans" small theatre shows debacle is that "the true fans" were priced out of attending by those with peripheral interests (*musically speaking*) but with very deep pockets. => > (Prior to that, the actual "keen fans" would camp out on the lawn => > beside Cassell Coliseum a day or so before tickets would become => > available for a given game, to be sure they were first in line and => > could get one. Now, "keen fans" only have to be sure to get their => > [extra] $39 cheque into the Althletics department on time before the => > season starts. On the non-student side, the amount of your "voluntary => > donation" determines from which crop of seats you may choose. The => > higher your "voluntary donation," the better your seat will be, => > although---it should be stressed---all tickets cost the same price, we => > are assured. It's only the "voluntary donation" that differs.;) => => OK, I'm not sure I get all this but basically I'm happier to get into a => bidding war than I am to sleep on the pavement all night and to some => extent scalping came down to basically paying someone to do the pavement => thing. I mention this because, IMHO, "keen fans" are ultimately not measured by the size of their bank balance. To me, it takes more dedication to sleep out to get tickets than it does to add $39 to daddy's annual credit card bill. Sure, the new system is more convenient, but I think it is all about money, not how much of a fan you are. If tickets were priced according to what percentage of your assets they represented, then I would concede that the highest-bidding fan was indeed the keenest. But they're not. Someone with a large disposable income can bid a large amount that represents an insignificant blip on his or her income---perhaps even bidding an amount that exceeds the total resources of an avid fan. That high bidder may have a negligible interest in the band, but see the high ticket price as no barrier whatsoever to attendance. I don't believe there is any correlation between fan loyalty and the size of your wallet, measured in absolute terms. (Note, I'm not suggesting at all only loyal/starving fans deserve to see a band. I'm just saying I don't think the amount you pay for a ticket determines how much of a fan you are.) => Scalpers had the money before anyway and that didn't do us much good. At => least if Ticketbastard can get some monopoly profits then it raises the => return on organising more concerts, so it's still a plus to us. Or, by increasing their monopoly profits, they may be able to cement further that monopoly, which may degrade service overall by reducing choice and introducing further potential for monopolistic abuses. So, I am undecided whether it is a plus to us. => > Perhaps one day there will be reached a price level at which large => > numbers of people decide it's "too expensive," and hence prices will => > have to come down to increase attendance. => => Maybe, but I suspect that would happen in such an environment of => falling disposable incomes that a lot of us would still be out of the => game. Because of the Pareto distribution of incomes, that is true. (A few people can always easily outbid the many, and given the finite capacity for venues, it is possible that most can be excluded by the deep pockets of a minority.) => > Until that time, I guess an => > ever-shrinking number of buyers will dominate the prices upwards. => => That doesn't make sense: if there are monopolistic profits to be had => from gigs, it raises the gain from having more gigs. But the choice of how many gigs you can have is limited by the touring calendar, the availability of cash cow bands, and the geography of venues. Most concert goers are not "repeat offenders," in that they probably will not see the same band more than once on a tour (and with many bands it's not worth doing so as you get the same show anyway). So there is an incentive to squeeze more money out of each concert attendee as being the easiest solution to maintaining a target gross for a gig. (Milk 'em as much as you can, because this may be your only chance.) Given that venues have finite capacity, profits can still be increased despite shrinking numbers of buyers in the face of rising ticket costs because you are effectively weeding out those that can't afford/won't pay but still have enough high-rollers to fill up the place. (Historically, this seems to be playing out, as there still appear to be sufficient people willing to pay ever-increasing ticket prices to maintain their continued rise, despite the overall numbers of people buying tickets declining.) I guess the breaking point of the "bleed 'em dry" strategy is when even the high-rollers find it all too much and so venues start to look threadbare. :-) Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Fri Sep 19 13:02:57 2003 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:02:57 +0100 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding In-Reply-To: Paul Mather's message of Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:56:18 -0400 Message-ID: Paul Mather writes: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 05:29:28PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: > > => > I've heard tell that a lot of those small-theatre shows that the > => > Rolling Stones played "for the true fans" on their USA tour were > => > mostly populated by Hollywood stars and corporate types that needed to > => > be seen to be there. > => > => Well OK, but that just means it was more important for them to be there > => than it was for sonme fan. > > Or, alternatively, that it was easier for them to facilitate being > there, by virtue of having deeper pockets to procure what soon became > very expensive tickets. Usually the folks who have those deeper pockets value their time more in that they can earn more with that time. They're therefore perhaps sacrificing a lot to be there. When you say "it's important for them to be there" this presumably means that their agent says they gotta be there to preserve their earning power in the entertainment industry. In other words, it's a work do. Now of course that gets in the way of dedicated Rolling Stones fan who're there for pleasure rather than work, but ultimately that's because this is the way the Rolling Stones play the game too: they want to be seen being seen by the famous, in order to maintain their own fame, and possibly earning power. If you're saying "Unfair! It's more about money than the music" then I agree, but that's true from the minute every band leaves their parents' garage. It's the way the entertainment industry works. Welcome to the wacky world of capitalism where other people put up money to enable you to see bands and get some ability to say what's what in return. Not everything Hawkwind does is just about the music either: Dave, Alan and the others have to put beer and bread on the table the same as the rest of us. Sure it's not Utopia, but it's all we've got. Until musicians are willing to work for what people put in a hat and we travel to them rather then them travelling to us, then that's how it will be. > My point in mentioning the "for the true > fans" small theatre shows debacle is that "the true fans" were priced > out of attending by those with peripheral interests (*musically > speaking*) but with very deep pockets. I believe you. I guess if the true fans aren't going to sell their cars etc to compete in the auctions with others then some sort of subsidised seating might be set aside for them. That's down to the promoters and bands to decide if they want to do the subsidising. I know how I feel about that when it's the Common Agricultural Policy and French and German farmers (PJ put it best when he talked about a cow with a farmer's hand stuck up its bottom). I suppose we might look on subsidies for can't pay/won't pay fans as much the same as the subsidies we already give to opera and classical music fans (how do we feel about those by the way). What always enters my head at such points is that if we weren't all paying the damn taxes to subsidise other people's hobbies, perhaps we could actually earn enough to pay for our own. But maybe that's just me: Minority Of One isn't an unusual barricade for me to be manning. > => OK, I'm not sure I get all this but basically I'm happier to get into a > => bidding war than I am to sleep on the pavement all night and to some > => extent scalping came down to basically paying someone to do the pavement > => thing. > > I mention this because, IMHO, "keen fans" are ultimately not measured > by the size of their bank balance. Not what I claimed. It's down to how much you're ready to pay in an auction, not how much more you've got after you've done so. I know a lot of people who say they can't afford to go out driniking at a weekend/go on a skiing holiday/etc. Whenever I look, these people have more assets than I do: cars/houses/etc. What's really going on is that they're spending their earnings servicing those cars and houses, and possibly children and then saying there isn't enough left over to drink or ski or go to festivals. What that means is that for them, having a car or kids or a house is more important than the gig whereas to me, the gig comes first. They're richer, but I'm willing to pay more because it's more important to me. I'm sure the scenario where someone has no assets at all and wants to bid does happen, but I'm ready to bet that it happens very rarely compared to people who have assets that they're not willing to pledge in the bid. From where I'm standing, that really means they're not as interested in winning as the folks who bid above them. > To me, it takes more dedication to > sleep out to get tickets than it does to add $39 to daddy's annual > credit card bill. Perhaps so, but let's compare like with like: sleeping out for X hours or staying at work for Y hours to get the money instead. Suddenly we're just comparing two different sorts of personal discomfort. > Sure, the new system is more convenient, but I > think it is all about money, not how much of a fan you are. It's about the companies making money at the expense of the scalpers. For the fans, there's no reason to believe that the average ticket price will change if we include the scalper prices into the "Before" column. What it does is make it a little more convenient for the guy who'd have paid the scalper to get in to now just log onto a web site and bid. > If tickets were priced according to what percentage of your assets > they represented That's just socialism. Do you think beer should be priced at a percentage of your assets? Do you think people should be paid less for an hour's work if they already have more assets? Would you personally be willing to work the same hours for less on that basis? Should we do the same with CD's even if the band starves? As I said above, given people's attachment to assets, I suspect that those with more are often only willing to bid less anyway. > then I would concede that the highest-bidding fan > was indeed the keenest. But they're not. Just about every economist in the world disagrees. The common reckoning is that people will bid what something is worth to them. > Someone with a large > disposable income can bid a large amount that represents an > insignificant blip on his or her income---perhaps even bidding an > amount that exceeds the total resources of an avid fan. That high > bidder may have a negligible interest in the band, but see the high > ticket price as no barrier whatsoever to attendance. People can only outbid other people so long before they have less money than the folks they've been outbidding. If I have 50 credits and 10 other people have 5 and we're all very determined then I'll be paying 6 credits at the start of the tour and I'll see 8 gigs. After that I'll have 2 credits and everyone else will have 5. I'm seeing no more gigs and each of them will see one of the next 10 gigs at half what I paid. After that we all have 2 credits for the next tour. Note that for my cash, I see half the return that they do in terms of gigs since I'm paying twice as much. > I don't believe there is any correlation between fan loyalty and the > size of your wallet, measured in absolute terms. Me neither. I do believe there's a correlation in what's bid. It's what you'll give up, not what you have let afterwards. > => Scalpers had the money before anyway and that didn't do us much good. At > => least if Ticketbastard can get some monopoly profits then it raises the > => return on organising more concerts, so it's still a plus to us. > > Or, by increasing their monopoly profits, they may be able to cement > further that monopoly, which may degrade service overall by reducing > choice and introducing further potential for monopolistic abuses. So, > I am undecided whether it is a plus to us. If they get a better monopoly then what else are they going to do but organise more gigs??? The *only* point in getting a monopoly is in order to maximise the extra (monopoly) profit that you take. The way to do that is to increase the opportunities to take it. > > => > Until that time, I guess an > => > ever-shrinking number of buyers will dominate the prices upwards. > => > => That doesn't make sense: if there are monopolistic profits to be had > => from gigs, it raises the gain from having more gigs. > > But the choice of how many gigs you can have is limited by the touring > calendar, the availability of cash cow bands, and the geography of > venues. All of which can be increased with investment of that extra money. > Most concert goers are not "repeat offenders," in that they > probably will not see the same band more than once on a tour (and with > many bands it's not worth doing so as you get the same show anyway). You forgot about all those folks priced out in the bidding. They're now ready to roll... > Given that venues have finite capacity, profits can still be increased > despite shrinking numbers of buyers in the face of rising ticket costs > because you are effectively weeding out those that can't afford/won't > pay but still have enough high-rollers to fill up the place. If the others will still pay more than the marginal cost of extra seats then you lose profit by not bringing them on board. FoFP From dplaw at IC24.NET Fri Sep 19 13:25:20 2003 From: dplaw at IC24.NET (Dave Law) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:25:20 -0400 Subject: HW: Hawkwind cinema update Message-ID: just to let folks know that our hawkwind cinema section has just been updated to include three new clips that make up the bands 1996 appearence on the VH-1 show "Take it to the bridge" this includes an interview with Dave as well as the tracks "love in space" and "silver machine". to check them out click on - http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/hwcinema.htm hope you enjoy them regards dave From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Fri Sep 19 16:01:27 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:01:27 -0400 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding In-Reply-To: <200309191702.h8JH2vvJ012082@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 06:02:57PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: => > I don't believe there is any correlation between fan loyalty and the => > size of your wallet, measured in absolute terms. => => Me neither. Great! I'm not sure why you tried to derail this into an argument over socialism or the Common Agricultural Policy or other politically-charged topics. My main disagreement with you was your statement that the "most keen" fans will be the highest bidders, in other words, that how high you can/will bid directly correlates to how big a fan you are. I don't buy that (no pun intended). => I do believe there's a correlation in what's bid. It's what => you'll give up, not what you have let afterwards. And I believe what you give up is not easily measured by how much you bid. (I also believe that what you give up is a relative measurement, not an absolute one.) => > then I would concede that the highest-bidding fan => > was indeed the keenest. But they're not. => => Just about every economist in the world disagrees. The common reckoning => is that people will bid what something is worth to them. "Worth" is a subjective term, and not easily quantified by looking at absolute bid prices. If I have $1 billion in assets and you have $10,000, and (even though I've never heard of the band in question) I want the child of my secretary to have front row seats at a hot-ticket concert, I may readily bid $1000 to ensure that simply because $1000 may not even register on my financial radar. For you, though, it would probably be a struggle to justify that amount for a single ticket. In relative terms, $1000 is "worth" less to me than to you. And, of course, in terms of who is the biggest fan in this scenario, well, the "keenest fans are the ones with the highest bids" theory would say that would be me. With the Pareto distribution of incomes, as a price threshold rises linearly, the numbers of people who can afford that price drops exponentially. In other words, it is harder to be a winning bidder as prices go up, irrespective of how diehard a fan you are. ;-) ("Luckily" for us, the kinds of bands we listen to rarely sell out shows, so being priced out of a venue entirely is unlikely to happen. Being priced out of "the best seats" is another matter. C'est la vie...) For me, Cameron Diaz or some other celeb or corporate type paying $5000, say, to attend a small-theatre Rolling Stones show tells me *nothing* about how big a fan he or she is of the band vs. anybody else. It just tells me he or she has $5000 to burn on a ticket. (And the fact that several celebs were reported to have stayed only long to be caught on film by the photographers [i.e., seen to be there] makes me suspicious that some weren't very big fans at all.:) If you're wondering why anyone would go to a show of a band they didn't particularly like, hey, I know plenty of people who buy those season lawn passes to their local shed and end up going to just those kind of shows just to use up their ticket allotment. :-) => > But the choice of how many gigs you can have is limited by the touring => > calendar, the availability of cash cow bands, and the geography of => > venues. => => All of which can be increased with investment of that extra money. Unless something has changed, I don't believe you can increase the number of days there are in a year no matter how much money you have. :-) Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From youless at COX.NET Sat Sep 20 02:43:48 2003 From: youless at COX.NET (Steve Youles) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:43:48 -0400 Subject: HW: Hawkwind cinema update Message-ID: Well done, these clips are excellent. I urge everyone to check them out. The Captain plays a lot of lead guitar on Love In Space, and the version of Silver Machine has a great deal of clarity... Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:25:20 -0400, Dave Law wrote: >just to let folks know that our hawkwind cinema section has just been >updated to include three new clips that make up the bands 1996 appearence >on the VH-1 show "Take it to the bridge" this includes an interview with >Dave as well as the tracks "love in space" and "silver machine". to check >them out click on - >http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/hwcinema.htm >hope you enjoy them >regards >dave From hw at CY-B.ORG Sat Sep 20 06:24:45 2003 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:24:45 -0400 Subject: HW: I Got An.......... Message-ID: No, but it's a good looking unit, and as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...... (i'll go now)..... >Rik Rx writes: > >> Wanna feel greater? >> >> http://orgone.org/IOOeng/ortk1.htm#oracsales > > >Hmmmm, does it have a beer holder? > >FoFP From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Sat Sep 20 08:30:40 2003 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:30:40 +0100 Subject: Hawkwind cinema update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Very entertaining! Not seen Richard playing an electronic kit before. Nick -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of Dave Law Sent: 19 September 2003 18:25 To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: HW: Hawkwind cinema update just to let folks know that our hawkwind cinema section has just been updated to include three new clips that make up the bands 1996 appearence on the VH-1 show "Take it to the bridge" this includes an interview with Dave as well as the tracks "love in space" and "silver machine". to check them out click on - http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/hwcinema.htm hope you enjoy them regards dave From hw at CY-B.ORG Sat Sep 20 21:09:06 2003 From: hw at CY-B.ORG (Rik Rx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:09:06 -0400 Subject: HW: Hawkwind (with Motorhead) at WEMBLEY - Pix Online Message-ID: +++++ + + + STAR WARRIORS + + ++ Our FULL Picture Gallery from our 2002 Wembley Arena gig is now online.... Direct URL: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hwind/gigs/wembley02/W03_00t.htm we hope you enjoy the pix :-} ++ + ++ MESSAGE ENDS + ++ + From gg at NINJANET.COM Sun Sep 21 04:25:09 2003 From: gg at NINJANET.COM (Pierluigi Fumi) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:25:09 +0200 Subject: HW: Some interesting vinyl on a mailorder Message-ID: I found some interesting vinyl, such as Quark, Astounding and Warrior... here's the list. besides the label there's the condition of the vinyl then the folder. The last number is the price in euro. Anybody interesting? I can give you the mail adress of this collector (it isn't a real mailorder, is a collector who sells by himself). If he doesn't want to send in england, i can buy for you than sent it. HAWKWIND - Same - UA*US'70 tobc m-/ex 26 (49455), Liberty*D foc suona e-/m- ex/ex 33 (48080), m-/ex 40 (46749) HAWKWIND - Hall of the mountain grill - UA*D'74 insert m-/m- 20 (47940), US inner cc m-/m- 22 (43465) HAWKWIND - Warrior on the edge - Atco*US'75 warpnap suona m- ex/ex 15 (48206), UK m-/m- 25 (46557) HAWKWIND - Astounding sounds, amazing - Charisma*D'76 m-/m- 19 (43466), UK inner m-/ex 24 (46189) HAWKWIND - Quark, strangeness and charm - Virgin*D'77 inner 2nd press m-/m- 12 (19272 x2) HAWKWIND - Roadhawks - Fame*UK'79 m-/m- 12 (23110) HAWKWIND - Sonis assassins - Flicknife*UK'81 Mini LP 3 tracks roc m-/ex 14 (21852) HAWKWIND - Independent days Vol.2 - Flicknife*UK'86 m-/m- 12 (21846 x3) HAWKWIND - Same - Castle*CH'90 m-/m- 12 (32246) HAWKWIND - Acid daze Vol.2 - Receiver*UK'90 m-/m- 10 (20730 x3) HAWKWIND - Acid daze Vol.3 - Receiver*UK'90 m-/m- 10 (21845 x3) HAWKWIND [HAWKLORDS] - Same - Charisma*D'78 m-/m- 14 (22800) HAWKWIND [HAWKLORDS] - 25 years on - Charisma*UK'78 co m-/ex 15 (22876) ciao!, gg -- www.shapeless.it - italian metal webzine www.iammol.com - it.arti.musica.metal online From jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM Sun Sep 21 18:30:57 2003 From: jkranitz at AURAL-INNOVATIONS.COM (Jerry Kranitz) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:30:57 -0400 Subject: OFF: Aural Innovations: New Articles, Reviews and Radio shows Message-ID: http://Aural-Innovations.com NOTE: I have a whirlwind week coming up, part of which will be spent out of town, and as a result will not be my usual responsive self until Tuesday the 30th. All Aural Innovations activities will be on hold until then..... Jerry Announcements (September 21, 2003): We've just uploaded the following new ARTICLES, REVIEWS and RADIO shows. Visit the What's New page at http://aural-innovations.com/main/whatsnew.html for links to all the new reviews. Thanks to Frank Gingeleit, Keith Henderson, Jeff Fitzgerald and Scott Heller for their contributions. Articles: Finkenbach 2003: 25-27 July, 2003 Finkenbach 2003 Photo Gallery Fuzzfest II - G?teborg, Sweden 8/29/03 Sulphur Sonic Festival - Manheim, Germany, August 30th, 2003 Reviews: (too many this week to list the the full titles individually. You'll find nice neat listings and links at the What's New page) Gas Giant and On Trial (live), Mandra Gora Lightshow Society, The Spacious Mind, Ektroverde, R?tto Ja Lehtisalo, Jean-Pierre Saccomani & Jean-Luc H. Berthelot, T30 Control, Radiopuhelimet, Sundial, Horacz Bluminth, Schwefel, The Electric Family, Shiny Gnomes, Bit's, Korai ?r?m, Lope, Ole Lukk?ye, Octopus Syng, Loxley Beade, Poor Luther's Bones, The Thornes, Robert H. Bennett & Damian Coccio, The Hidden Hand, Long Gone, Buffalo, Mandragora, Pothead, Amorphis, Hezzakya, Mannhai, Joel Hoekstra, Brand X, Soft Works, Niacin, Tempest, Fez Dispenser, Flesh-Resonance, Farces Wanna Mo, Kometa, Mother, Romano Trip New Alchemical Radio Show. You can go directly to the Radio Shows page at http://aural-innovations.com/radio/radio.html Alchemical Radio (show #46): General Playlist (Space Rock Radio) Alchemical Radio is produced by our friends Terri~B and The Reverend Rabbit from the Stone Premonitions label and features some of the best Psychedelia, Progressive Rock, Metal, and adventurous Pop that the underground has to offer. Visit the Stone Premonitions web site at http://aural-innovations.com/stonepremonitions. Sputnik Weasel - New American Century Mystery Juice - Disgracedland The Psychedelic Breakfast - Chemical Youth Radium 88 - Spacedub Odyssey Terry Munday - The Liberty Project Breed 77 - Floods Robin Guthrie - Imperial Root Deco - Subway To Paradise Census Of Hallucinations - Flight Of The Cosmick Snot Uglyhead - Yellow Stuff In Tins Paul Bullock - We All Look Particularly Good Tonight Gargantua Soul - Gargantua Eric Anders - Leaves Me Cold The Insane Picnic - There's A Man Queensryche - Great Divide http://Aural-Innovations.com From fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK Mon Sep 22 06:23:52 2003 From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK (M Holmes) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:23:52 +0100 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding In-Reply-To: Paul Mather's message of Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:01:27 -0400 Message-ID: Paul Mather writes: > On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 06:02:57PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: > > => > I don't believe there is any correlation between fan loyalty and the > => > size of your wallet, measured in absolute terms. > => > => Me neither. > > Great! I'm not sure why you tried to derail this into an argument > over socialism or the Common Agricultural Policy or other > politically-charged topics. I used them as means of illustration of points. > My main disagreement with you was your > statement that the "most keen" fans will be the highest bidders, in > other words, that how high you can/will bid directly correlates to how > big a fan you are. I don't buy that (no pun intended). Yes, that seems to be the main area of disagreement. > => I do believe there's a correlation in what's bid. It's what > => you'll give up, not what you have let afterwards. > > And I believe what you give up is not easily measured by how much you > bid. (I also believe that what you give up is a relative measurement, > not an absolute one.) OK, if we're not to use actual money, which is the normal measurement of what people will give up (in that the money is a measure of whatever they would instead purchase) then how would you suggest it be measured and how might we put in place a system of paying for gigs based on it? > => Just about every economist in the world disagrees. The common reckoning > => is that people will bid what something is worth to them. > > "Worth" is a subjective term, and not easily quantified by looking at > absolute bid prices. I agree that it's a subjective term. Economists expec that peopkle will reveal subjective worth by pricing something through offer. How else do you think personal preference might be quantified? > If I have $1 billion in assets and you have $10,000, and (even though > I've never heard of the band in question) I want the child of my > secretary to have front row seats at a hot-ticket concert, I may > readily bid $1000 to ensure that simply because $1000 may not even > register on my financial radar. For you, though, it would probably be > a struggle to justify that amount for a single ticket. In relative > terms, $1000 is "worth" less to me than to you. And, of course, in > terms of who is the biggest fan in this scenario, well, the "keenest > fans are the ones with the highest bids" theory would say that would > be me. No, it might the kid on whose behalf you're bidding. See my previous agreement on bribes, and why it's better for everyone that they happen in cash. What we have her is just another example of the hospitality scenario. > ("Luckily" for us, the kinds of bands we listen to rarely sell out > shows, so being priced out of a venue entirely is unlikely to happen. Ticketmaster can only be taking money from scalpers by introducing a bidding scheme *unless* tickets are already generally underpriced - I.E fans would on average pay more than they're currently being charged. > Being priced out of "the best seats" is another matter. C'est la > vie...) > For me, Cameron Diaz or some other celeb or corporate type paying > $5000, say, to attend a small-theatre Rolling Stones show tells me > *nothing* about how big a fan he or she is of the band vs. anybody > else. It just tells me he or she has $5000 to burn on a ticket. (And > the fact that several celebs were reported to have stayed only long to > be caught on film by the photographers [i.e., seen to be there] makes > me suspicious that some weren't very big fans at all.:) Agreed. What I'd say is simply that it was worth 5000 to them to be there. It gets tricky when there are reasons to be at a gig other than to see a band. I daresay a few of us have been at gigs more because a certain member of the opposite (or same) sex was there than due to the particular band that was playing. > => > But the choice of how many gigs you can have is limited by the touring > => > calendar, the availability of cash cow bands, and the geography of > => > venues. > => > => All of which can be increased with investment of that extra money. > > Unless something has changed, I don't believe you can increase the > number of days there are in a year no matter how much money you have. :-) Hey: we could move to Mars! Cheers FoFP From dplaw at IC24.NET Mon Sep 22 06:45:33 2003 From: dplaw at IC24.NET (Dave Law) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:45:33 -0400 Subject: HW: (Sorry) but it's another exclusive scoop Message-ID: I'm sure that you must get hacked off with me seemingly always posting to the list but the simple fact of the matter is that we seem to be forever unearthing new material that i'm sure is of interest to all committed hawkfans. so if you want to find out the real truth behind the Stonehenge festival as well as how Alan Davey came to join the band then may i suggest that you click on the following link, i have a feeling that it may supprise a few of you! http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/stonehen.htm there's 3 pages of info and photos in all, hope you find them informative! regards dave From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Mon Sep 22 06:55:37 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:55:37 +0100 Subject: OFF: TicketMaster bidding Message-ID: > > > For me, Cameron Diaz or some other celeb or corporate type paying > > $5000, say, to attend a small-theatre Rolling Stones show tells me > > *nothing* about how big a fan he or she is of the band vs. anybody > > else. It just tells me he or she has $5000 to burn on a ticket. (And > > the fact that several celebs were reported to have stayed only long to > > be caught on film by the photographers [i.e., seen to be there] makes > > me suspicious that some weren't very big fans at all.:) The distressing thing about this was that a friend of mine paid ?300 for two tickets, and as soon as the announcement "Here they are, THE ROLLING STONES!!!" happened, she had an epileptic fit, passed out (her first in 35 years), was taken to hospital and missed the whole thing. :-( Cheers, Rich. From CWarburton at OAG.COM Mon Sep 22 07:28:18 2003 From: CWarburton at OAG.COM (CWarburton at OAG.COM) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:28:18 +0100 Subject: BOC: Reference Message-ID: Good site anyway, http://www.anomalist.com/ But scroll down to September 18 ChrisW ObCD: The Hives' "HomeTaping" from Kerrang From eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Sep 22 08:18:23 2003 From: eddiejobson at HOTMAIL.COM (eddie jobson) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:18:23 +0000 Subject: HW: Hawkwind cinema update Message-ID: Has anyone got a VHS copy of this to trade. Contact me off line at eddiejobson at hotmail.com Cheers. >From: Dave Law >Reply-To: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List >To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET >Subject: HW: Hawkwind cinema update >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:25:20 -0400 > >just to let folks know that our hawkwind cinema section has just been >updated to include three new clips that make up the bands 1996 appearence >on the VH-1 show "Take it to the bridge" this includes an interview with >Dave as well as the tracks "love in space" and "silver machine". to check >them out click on - >http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/hwcinema.htm >hope you enjoy them >regards >dave _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Mon Sep 22 08:50:18 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:50:18 +0800 Subject: Studio 22 ABC Australia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Don't know if anyone would know the answer to this question, but Studio 22 is on TV again here in Australia. I don't know if it's a new series or repeat, so it may be worth checking in case the Hawkwind episode is shown again! William From kkusic at EXECPC.COM Mon Sep 22 12:18:52 2003 From: kkusic at EXECPC.COM (Karen Kusic) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:18:52 -0400 Subject: OFF: Old Glastonbury ad fools fans Message-ID: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3120744.stm From erics at TELEPRES.COM Tue Sep 23 13:07:20 2003 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:07:20 -0400 Subject: HW: I Got An.......... In-Reply-To: <200309191233.h8JCXwuq026396@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>; from fofp@HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK on Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 01:33:58PM +0100 Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 01:33:58PM +0100, M Holmes wrote: > Rik Rx writes: > > > Wanna feel greater? > > > > http://orgone.org/IOOeng/ortk1.htm#oracsales > > > Hmmmm, does it have a beer holder? Insert beer into human. Insert human into accumulator. Voila. -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / When I came back around from the dark side, there in front of me would be the landing area where the crew was, and the Earth, all in the view of my window. I couldn't help but think that there in front of me was all of humanity, except me. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 Command Module Pilot From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Tue Sep 23 13:24:38 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:24:38 +0800 Subject: Studio 22 info In-Reply-To: <20030923130720.A20143@telepres.com> Message-ID: Following on from my last email regarding Studio 22 on ABC Australia, they may be repeats, as the one that was on tonight was Slim Dusty (unless they only played that one because he died?). So, the Hawkwind episode may be repeated? William From mlawrenc at AU1.IBM.COM Wed Sep 24 00:18:48 2003 From: mlawrenc at AU1.IBM.COM (Marty Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:18:48 -0400 Subject: Studio 22 ABC Australia Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:50:18 +0800, William Duffy wrote: >Hi > >Don't know if anyone would know the answer to this question, but Studio >22 is on TV again here in Australia. I don't know if it's a new series >or repeat, so it may be worth checking in case the Hawkwind episode is >shown again! > >William It's a new series , it would be nice of them to repeat the older series. It would be great if they also would show the missed songs - brainstorm/Reefer Madness and Assassins of Allah, but maybe they're on the cutting room floor. I sent Dave a tape of the show when I flew over to the UK since he asked for a tape of it, but never heard back from them if they ever received it or not. I heard that Dave was given a tape of the show from the ABC but it had all the show timing info etc , and was apparantly in mono. Perhaps Kris can let us know if they did get a tape, since I guess thats the only one that would have all the show. BTW How many other Australian listers were there at the ABC ? regards Marty From hms at ITECHMEDIA.COM Wed Sep 24 02:54:03 2003 From: hms at ITECHMEDIA.COM (Dr. T.) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 02:54:03 -0400 Subject: HW: Bizaare gig experiences Message-ID: my bizarre gig experience #9 Theres some back story so please bear with me I have been a hawkwind madman for about 31 years... Anyway, in 86 or 87 I?m at a street fest and sit through a gig by a band called Friends of Betty. They were alright, sorta spacey in a smashing pumpkins way, but what really attracted my attention was the bassist, a babe-o-licious blond haired gal. So at the end of the set, I?m feeling a little hormonally inbalanced and I start chanting ?hawkwind, hawkwind? during the applause. Much to my surprise the babe bassist unstraps her instrument and comes right off the stage at me. I?m thinking oh shit, I?ve pissed her off and I?ve offended her arty sensibilities. But she?s smiling and beaming at me. ?Hey, do I know you? How did you know about Hawkwind? Do you know Bruce? How did you know I was a Hawkwind fan? ? It turns out that former boyfriend Bruce had turned her onto Hawkwind, and she was a major fan. Friends of Betty didn?t really sound anything like Hawkwind, but maybe I was responding to some psychic thing We spent a bunch of time talking that day and I was her instant Hawkwind comrade. Glynnis was her name, and over the following couple of years I saw her band a number of times, and hung out with her crowd a bit. In October 89, after a 11 year hiatus, Hawkwind finally made it back to the states. Something like 3 days before their show I see the announcement in the paper. And Glynnis? band Friends of Betty are the opening act. I rallied my few closest fellow hawkwind madmen and we took our place near the head of the line outside the Lounge Axe like 6-8 hours before the show. I?m talking with this one guy in line, trading Hawkwind show stories, and it turns out that he?s been to all the same shows as I ? like every show in the chicagoland area since 73 and I realize I actually saw this guy at a few of them ? watched him writher on the floor at one of the Hammond Civic Center shows as he freaked on acid just a few feet from me, saw him get pushed through the plate glass entrance doors (lots of broken glass ? very little blood) at the Riveria Theatre in ?78 at what turned out as a generally miserable show and would be the last for quite a while. About this time I spot Glynnis coming down the sidewalk. She heads right over and starts very warmly greeting the guy I?ve been talking with. This is THE Bruce she?s told me about that turned her onto Hawkwind. Its all a very small circle (hmmm is that really so bizarre???) It is definitely cool meeting someone who has also undergone the hawkwind transformation (is that orgone accumulation?) and realizing that on some deep level you have that shared experience that connects you (hmmm maybe that?s the bizarre thing???) Glynnis was freaking that they got the intro gig. FOB played a pretty brief set, and Glynnis mentioned how happy she was about sharing the stage with Hawkwind about dozen times during their show. ?89 at the Lounge Axe may not have been Hawkwind?s strongest show, but it was the start of a new phase of my hawkwind fandom, and I met a bunch of folks there ? Bruce F for one, and Chris Bruce and his Madame Quantum. Everything seemed revitalized knowing the Hawks were making stateside tours again. As a post script - Friends of Betty later caught the attention of Billy Corrigan of the Smashing Pumpkins (I think Glynnis told me that either Corrigan or James Iha were Space Ritual era hawkfans ) Glynnis unfortunately passed away in the mid 90?s Billy wrote a song about her. From sloterdijk at MSN.COM Thu Sep 25 14:58:13 2003 From: sloterdijk at MSN.COM (Burro Mike) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:58:13 +0000 Subject: SLOTERDIJK/One Eyed Bishops seeking Dutch & German dates 1/2004 Message-ID: SLOTERDIJK and/or The One Eyed Bishops are seeking dates in The Netherlands and/or Germany for very early January. If interested please contact us at: sloterdijk at msn.com _________________________________________________________________ Instant message in style with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Fri Sep 26 09:59:35 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:59:35 +0800 Subject: OFF: BIG NEWS FOR ALL YOU DOCTOR WHO FANS!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all I know quite a few of you on here are Doctor Who fans. I'll keep you in suspense by just saying "Read the news on this web page:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/ William From sloterdijk at MSN.COM Fri Sep 26 13:54:20 2003 From: sloterdijk at MSN.COM (Burro Mike) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:54:20 +0000 Subject: Monstermania Convention 2 nite!!!!! Bouchard, Dunaway & Smith Message-ID: Hello friends!!!! Lots happening these days!!! Tonight we are going to check out Bouchard, Dunaway & Smith at The Monster Convention in Cherry Hill, New Jersey..Showtime is 10:45PM!!! Hope to see some of you there. For complete details click: http://www.monstermania.net Don't forget October 17th: Major 'Beach Party' in Atlantic City, New Jersey with The Brain Surgeons & The One Eyed Bishops. Check out http://www.cellsum.com for details!!! or write to: ODDSMAKER7 at aol.com with any questions. McGuire's Erin Bar is where the gig is going to happen and you can find a direct link to their site via The Brain Surgeons tourdates section (above). John from McGuire's has acknowledged that he received many e-mails from you with regard to the show. This is great news, keep them coming!! This is definitely going to be one NOT to miss. Showtime is about 10:30 PM for The OEBs followed of course by TBS. There will be a $5.00 cover charge, to be paid at the door. Thanks to all for your continuing support!!!! Peace....Mike Burro http://www.mp3.com/sloterdijk http://www.BelgiumMp3.be ( search for SLOTERDIJK in database) http://theoneeyedbishops.iuma.com On the SLOTERDIJK front we are actively seeking gigs in The Netherlands and germany for very early January 2004. If you can help please contact us directly!!! _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Fri Sep 26 13:58:10 2003 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:58:10 -0400 Subject: OFF: BIG NEWS FOR ALL YOU DOCTOR WHO FANS!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <000001c38436$744bc910$fb973bcb@xl5> Message-ID: At 09:59 PM 9/26/03 +0800, you wrote: >Hi all > >I know quite a few of you on here are Doctor Who fans. I'll keep you in >suspense by just saying "Read the news on this web page:- >http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/ > >William let me be the first to fill everyone's in-boxes with a tremendous hooray. HOORAY! Done, Jason From jasret at MINDSPRING.COM Fri Sep 26 17:23:01 2003 From: jasret at MINDSPRING.COM (Doug Pearson) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:23:01 -0400 Subject: HW: great cover version Message-ID: Got to see Mudhoney a couple weeks ago in San Francisco, and they most graciously played my request for their version of "Urban Guerilla" as their final encore (especially nice since it was my birthday). Great, seriously ass-kicking, version! Their set opener (don't remember the title, but it's the first song on their new album) is also a great piece of psychedelic drone/jam, with effective spacey HW/Floyd-style delay action from all the instruments. I highly recommend seeing them, especially as it's clear that Steve Turner and Mark Arm just might belong on that list of top 100 guitarists ... they've been playing together for around 20 years now (the first Green River EP was 1985, I think), and it shows. Why isn't their version of "Urban Guerilla" on the new tribute album?!?!? is what I want to know ... -Doug (hi, I'm back!) jasret at mindspring.com From cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET Fri Sep 26 19:42:07 2003 From: cosmicdolphin at COMCAST.NET (Rich) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:42:07 -0500 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1844491013/qid=1064619435/sr=2-1/re f=sr_2_3_1/026-2991404-2843632 Anyone know anything about this one? The author seems to be writing other biogs of Rock peeps ;-0 RICH W From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Sep 27 02:15:14 2003 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:15:14 +0100 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? Message-ID: My first hunch would have been some sort of cut and paste job - simply because having interviewed quite a number of past and current members for the biography I've been working on this year I haven't come across anybody who has mentioned being interviewed for any other Hawkwind book. On the other hand, there is no reason why anybody should have mentioned this to me particularly and you really can only do the 1970s on a cut and paste basis before the lack of contemporarily published material dries up and you have to do your own interviews etc. So it looks legit doesn't it? I seem to remember her biog of the Damned many years back but how good it was I can't recall - I think it was o/k. Got a serious publisher behind it as well which bodes well. Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" To: Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:42 AM Subject: HW:Another HW Book? > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1844491013/qid=1064619435/sr=2-1/re > f=sr_2_3_1/026-2991404-2843632 > > Anyone know anything about this one? The author seems to be writing other > biogs of Rock peeps ;-0 > > RICH W > From coral at APORT.RU Sat Sep 27 03:37:02 2003 From: coral at APORT.RU (Alisa) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:37:02 +0400 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? Message-ID: More books about HW - more people will recall or know about them! And in the near release of new album it's very good. cheers, Alisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Abrahams" To: Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 10:15 AM Subject: Re: HW:Another HW Book? > My first hunch would have been some sort of cut and paste job - simply > because having interviewed quite a number of past and current members for > the biography I've been working on this year I haven't come across anybody > who has mentioned being interviewed for any other Hawkwind book. > > On the other hand, there is no reason why anybody should have mentioned this > to me particularly and you really can only do the 1970s on a cut and paste > basis before the lack of contemporarily published material dries up and you > have to do your own interviews etc. > > So it looks legit doesn't it? I seem to remember her biog of the Damned many > years back but how good it was I can't recall - I think it was o/k. Got a > serious publisher behind it as well which bodes well. > > Ian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:42 AM > Subject: HW:Another HW Book? > > > > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1844491013/qid=1064619435/sr=2-1/re > > f=sr_2_3_1/026-2991404-2843632 > > > > Anyone know anything about this one? The author seems to be writing other > > biogs of Rock peeps ;-0 > > > > RICH W > > > From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Sep 27 03:49:54 2003 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:49:54 +0100 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? Message-ID: Yes, you are right - but of course potential publishers would see it a different way. Thats not necessarily a problem, since my comittment to the people who spared me interview time is that I will self-publish if a publishing company can't be found to take on the project. Still, its one of the risks you take when picking on a subject to write about - theres *always* going to be somebody else having a crack at the same material. The goal is just to produce the better, more insightful or more authoritative end result. Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alisa" To: Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 8:37 AM Subject: Re: HW:Another HW Book? > More books about HW - more people will recall or know about them! And in the > near release of new album it's very good. > > cheers, > Alisa > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Abrahams" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 10:15 AM > Subject: Re: HW:Another HW Book? > > > > My first hunch would have been some sort of cut and paste job - simply > > because having interviewed quite a number of past and current members for > > the biography I've been working on this year I haven't come across anybody > > who has mentioned being interviewed for any other Hawkwind book. > > > > On the other hand, there is no reason why anybody should have mentioned > this > > to me particularly and you really can only do the 1970s on a cut and paste > > basis before the lack of contemporarily published material dries up and > you > > have to do your own interviews etc. > > > > So it looks legit doesn't it? I seem to remember her biog of the Damned > many > > years back but how good it was I can't recall - I think it was o/k. Got a > > serious publisher behind it as well which bodes well. > > > > Ian > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rich" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:42 AM > > Subject: HW:Another HW Book? > > > > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1844491013/qid=1064619435/sr=2-1/re > > > f=sr_2_3_1/026-2991404-2843632 > > > > > > Anyone know anything about this one? The author seems to be writing > other > > > biogs of Rock peeps ;-0 > > > > > > RICH W > > > > > > From erics at TELEPRES.COM Sat Sep 27 12:22:35 2003 From: erics at TELEPRES.COM (Eric Siegerman) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:22:35 -0400 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? In-Reply-To: <000801c384cb$f08ce960$fa23fea9@r1e1j2>; from mail@ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 08:49:54AM +0100 Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 08:49:54AM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: > [...] my comittment to the > people who spared me interview time is that I will self-publish if a > publishing company can't be found to take on the project. Or "do the indie thing". Sounds so much nicer, doesn't it? Really, why is it that "indie" bands are considered gutsy and enterprising, but "self-published" authors merely desperate? Let's hear it for independent book publishing! -- | | /\ |-_|/ > Eric Siegerman, Toronto, Ont. erics at telepres.com | | / When I came back around from the dark side, there in front of me would be the landing area where the crew was, and the Earth, all in the view of my window. I couldn't help but think that there in front of me was all of humanity, except me. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 Command Module Pilot From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Sep 27 14:06:14 2003 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:06:14 +0100 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Siegerman" > > Really, why is it that "indie" bands are considered gutsy and > enterprising, but "self-published" authors merely desperate? > > Let's hear it for independent book publishing! Well, I think its because indie labels came out of the punk-era "DIY" ethic whereas authors self-publishing smacks of vanity press so the two things appear to be poles apart. I'm quite chuffed that Omnibus are publishing a Hawkwind book. Its good news that such a big publishing company think there is marketability in the band. I hope its going to be a great book - I also hope that come September mine will already be around (whether through a smaller publishing house or through my own financial commitment to the project) and I can put them side by side and say "hey, I didn't do so bad"... My fear is that the Omnibus book will be "Ladbroke Grove, Lots of Drugs, Silver Machine, Space Ritual, Lemmy gets sacked, and oh, the band is still going today" - but thats an unfair pre-judgement really. But I've a hunch that if you want that, the Omnibus is the one to get, if you want Ron Tree's honest and touching appraisal of why he's not in Hawkwind today, then mine is the version to go for. But we'll all buy both,surely! Hey, its good news that there is this increased interest in the band. There *should* be a book .. there can be more than one and the market will stand it, I'm sure. I've kept relatively quiet on list (though its not been a secret by any means) about what I've been upto - mainly because I wanted a publisher first. I have quite an amount of interviews conducted with past and current members, associated musicians and views from members of this list (any anybody who has recollections, views to offer, we're out in the open now, drop me a note off-list). I also have my old friend Keith Topping acting as editor on the project (watch for his book "The Complete Clash" due in October for the sort of standard I've got to be aiming at) so its a little more than a glorified fanzine project (though theres nowt wrong with that, of course). Ian From paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU Sat Sep 27 14:32:32 2003 From: paul at GROMIT.DLIB.VT.EDU (Paul Mather) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:32:32 -0400 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? In-Reply-To: <001301c38522$0a3a96e0$fa23fea9@r1e1j2> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 07:06:14PM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: => I'm quite chuffed that Omnibus are publishing a Hawkwind book. Its good news => that such a big publishing company think there is marketability in the band. => I hope its going to be a great book - I also hope that come September mine => will already be around (whether through a smaller publishing house or => through my own financial commitment to the project) and I can put them side => by side and say "hey, I didn't do so bad"... My fear is that the Omnibus => book will be "Ladbroke Grove, Lots of Drugs, Silver Machine, Space Ritual, => Lemmy gets sacked, and oh, the band is still going today" - but thats an => unfair pre-judgement really. But I've a hunch that if you want that, the => Omnibus is the one to get, if you want Ron Tree's honest and touching => appraisal of why he's not in Hawkwind today, then mine is the version to go => for. But we'll all buy both,surely! I think perhaps that the title of the Omnibus book ("The Saga of Hawkwind") kind of smells a bit of muckraking to me. If anyone is familiar with the Allman Brothers Band and the biography "Midnight Riders" then you'll know what I mean. "Midnight Riders" is not too popular amongst diehard ABB fans because, deep down, it dwells on the "stormy saga" side of the ABB's history, not the music. (Plus, there are allegations of glaring factual inaccuracies with the book.) The upshot is that it makes a ripping yarn, and hence appeals to the broader readership outside the ABB fan base. Scandal sells... Hopefully, the Omnibus book doesn't tread this path and focus only on the "acid daze" glory years of the band. Not only would that omit a significant portion of the band's history, but it would be a significant retread as well as a disservice to the band. Good luck with the book, Ian! Cheers, Paul. e-mail: paul at gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa From dplaw at IC24.NET Sat Sep 27 14:37:12 2003 From: dplaw at IC24.NET (Dave Law) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:37:12 -0400 Subject: OFF: The cooper teple clause - space rock? Message-ID: has anybody else on the list got the new album by the cooper temple clause - "kick up the fire and let the flames break loose". whilst having a variety of influences and a very modern sound there is IMHO also a massive debt to Hawkwind as far as the overall sound goes. i'd reccommend folks check it out if for no other reason than you seem to be able to pick it up for around ?10.00 and initial copies come with an additional DVD of promo videos which can't be bad value in this day and age, and the music's pretty good! hope that's of interest to some of you regards dave p.s also put cooper temple clause + hawkwind into a search engine www.google.com and you'll find quite a lot of interesting results! From sloterdijk at MSN.COM Sat Sep 27 15:33:04 2003 From: sloterdijk at MSN.COM (Burro Mike) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:33:04 +0000 Subject: [SLOTERDIJK-Pod] Monstermania Convention 2 nite!!!!! Bouchard, Dunaway & Smith Message-ID: The show was great!!!! I met with Neil and said hello to Dennis& Joe. I hope to help bring the band back to the Philadelphia area in the not to distant future..If you like intimate venues where you can really interact with the band, then this was a dream come true.. Here are some of the tunes which I remember.. Astronomy A long way to go Godzilla Don't Fear The Reaper Wearwolves of London ( for Warren Zevon) Halo of Flies Black Juju Eighteen School's out I'm sure there were a few more, but I just can't remember. I know that Dennis Dunaway played the main bass riffs to about 6 different Alice Cooper tunes during his solo. Once again you can find a direct link to BDS via the Mostermania site at: http://www.monstermania.net >From: "Burro Mike" >Reply-To: SLOTERDIJK-Pod at yahoogroups.com >To: boc-l at listserv.spc.edu, sloterdijk-pod at yahoogroups.com, >hawkwind at yahoogroups.com, AFTERDARK_ST37 at YAHOO.COM, BCRich78 at comcast.net, >CallHomeNow at aol.com, capcloud at hawklord.com, dornrecyclers at aol.com, >dreamwind69 at hotmail.com, drehner at head-cfa.harvard.edu, elgre at hotmail.com, >gsmithlang at aol.com, hchorstmann at aol.com, hilump at worldnet.att.net, >jessingram57 at hotmail.com, jmp at monitor.net, JOHNFGERAGHTY at aol.com, >joretta4 at aol.com, jperkins at mailcity.com, js3619 at acmenet.net, >kevin.com at btinternet.com, lupeo at comcast.net, mramberg at ncb.com, >nexus at panix.com, p-addison at t-online.de, Rachel at autojet.be, rhanes at gate.net, >Rkotlarek@!aol.com, schism33 at hotmail.com, Spiralgalaxy1988 at aol.com, >stellamarz at msn.com, swheately at flowgaurd.com, teahammers at cs.com, >warrendavis180 at msn.com >CC: sloterdijk at msn.com >Subject: [SLOTERDIJK-Pod] Monstermania Convention 2 nite!!!!! Bouchard, >Dunaway & Smith >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:54:20 +0000 > >Hello friends!!!! >Lots happening these days!!! >Tonight we are going to check out Bouchard, Dunaway & Smith at The Monster >Convention in Cherry Hill, New Jersey..Showtime is 10:45PM!!! Hope to see >some of you there. For complete details click: > >http://www.monstermania.net > >Don't forget October 17th: Major 'Beach Party' in Atlantic City, New Jersey >with The Brain Surgeons & The One Eyed Bishops. Check out >http://www.cellsum.com for details!!! or write to: ODDSMAKER7 at aol.com with >any questions. > >McGuire's Erin Bar is where the gig is going to happen and you can find a >direct link to their site via The Brain Surgeons tourdates section (above). >John from McGuire's has acknowledged that he received many e-mails from you >with regard to the show. This is great news, keep them coming!! >This is definitely going to be one NOT to miss. Showtime is about 10:30 PM >for The OEBs followed of course by TBS. >There will be a $5.00 cover charge, to be paid at the door. > >Thanks to all for your continuing support!!!! Peace....Mike Burro >http://www.mp3.com/sloterdijk >http://www.BelgiumMp3.be ( search for SLOTERDIJK in database) >http://theoneeyedbishops.iuma.com > > >On the SLOTERDIJK front we are actively seeking gigs in The Netherlands and >germany for very early January 2004. If you can help please contact us >directly!!! > >_________________________________________________________________ >Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage >today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark >Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. >http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 >http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/nnJolB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > "One Is" > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy patented spam protection and more. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa From ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET Sat Sep 27 23:26:22 2003 From: ma-paharper at IOPENER.NET (Tim) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:26:22 -0400 Subject: BOC:orlando show Message-ID: Just back from the orlando show, rain held off... 90 minutes of great stuff. special kudos to Buck, who had to play rental guitars, his never made it to florida!! sleep now, bye tim 8>)... From nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET Sun Sep 28 10:31:31 2003 From: nick.lee2 at VIRGIN.NET (Nick Lee) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:31:31 +0100 Subject: HW: Motorhead box set Message-ID: According to the review in this month's Classic Rock the new Motorhead 5CD retrospective has, on the disc of live rarities, a version of Silver Machine from the Hawkestra. The compilation got a generally favourable review too. Nick From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Sun Sep 28 12:53:40 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:53:40 +0800 Subject: OFF: More on new Doctor Who series In-Reply-To: <001301c385cd$361547a0$c3cf6b51@yourpnqspyopyu> Message-ID: I've been reading more on what is happening with the new series, & it looks like they already have the actor to play The Doctor. I don't want to jump the gun here, because this may not be the actor to do it at all, but the person who is making the new series, Russell T Davies, let slip a name to reporters. Whether this actor is The Doctor, or simply the one he would like as The Doctor is yet unsure. The actor I'm talking of may not be familiar by name, but if I mention a few things he's in, someone is bound to guess who he is. His name is Bill Nighy, & his roles include Still Crazy, in which he was the lead singer of a 70's rock band who reform in the 90's. Auf Weidersien Pet (the recent series), in which he played a character called Sir Jeffrey, Guest House Paradiso (which is basically Bottom, The Movie), & Longitude, with Michael Gambon. Another name that's currently doing the rounds for the role is Alan Davies, who stars in a series called Jonathon Creek. But I think (and pray) that one is a rumour. William PS How about getting Hawkwind to do the theme music!!!!! From js3619 at ACMENET.NET Sun Sep 28 19:54:14 2003 From: js3619 at ACMENET.NET (Jason Scruton) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:54:14 -0400 Subject: OFF: MC5 news, of the bibliographic variety Message-ID: according to Amazon.com: The Future Is Now: An Illustrated History of the Mc5 by Michael Simmons, Cletus Nelson List Price: $15.95 Price: $11.17 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. You Save: $4.78 (30%) Availability: This item has not yet been released. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives. From CWarburton at OAG.COM Mon Sep 29 12:16:00 2003 From: CWarburton at OAG.COM (CWarburton at OAG.COM) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:16:00 +0100 Subject: OFF: Re. More on new Doctor Who series Message-ID: ---------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:53:40 +0800 > From: William Duffy > Subject: OFF: More on new Doctor Who series > I don't want to jump the gun here, because this may not be > the actor to do it at all, but the person who is making the > new series, Russell T Davies, let slip a name to reporters. > Whether this actor is The Doctor, or simply the one he would > like as The Doctor is yet unsure. > The actor I'm talking of may not be familiar by name, but if > I mention a few things he's in, someone is bound to guess who he is. > > His name is Bill Nighy, Well, Helen sent me this today: ******************************** These are the current names re: above ... Bill Nighy Jonathan Pryce Richard E Grant Dame Maggie Smith Lenny Henry ********************************** I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think any of the first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, however, Don Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a perfectly splendid Doctor!! I'd also heard the Alan Davies rumour - that might work, but probably too close to Jonathan Creek. TTFN ChrisW ObCD:Bill Frisell/Blues Dream From akomins at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Sep 29 12:37:13 2003 From: akomins at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Arin Komins) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:37:13 -0500 Subject: OFF: Re. More on new Doctor Who series In-Reply-To: <9516C5462A22114B9A55EBF7FEB3D206026698B4@uk01ex01.travel.oag.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 CWarburton at OAG.COM wrote: :Subject: OFF: Re. More on new Doctor Who series : :> His name is Bill Nighy, : :Well, Helen sent me this today: :******************************** :These are the current names re: above ... : :Bill Nighy :Jonathan Pryce :Richard E Grant :Dame Maggie Smith :Lenny Henry :********************************** : Folks can also see Bill Nighy in the mostly-a-waste-of-time Underworld, which is out now here in the US. (Although, I did quite like Nighy in Still Crazy, I just don't see him as Doctor material.) Jonathan Pryce would be far too weird, particularly after seeing him as the Master in Curse of the Fatal Death. I don't know who I'm voting for. I do quite like McGann, though, and if you ignore the terrible, terrible movie, he has been doing quite a good job in the audio adventures. Just as long as it *does* come back on air. Then, of course, I get to start harassing the UK folk for copies, as I'm sure it'll be lagging before it gets to the US. Arin (ludicrously behind on list email) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Arin Komins akomins at uchicago.edu Manager of Web Systems Architecture University of Chicago/ENSS/NSIT tel: (773)834-4087 1155 E. 60th St. #302B Chicago, IL 60637 fax: (773)702-0559 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From akomins at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Sep 29 12:39:11 2003 From: akomins at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Arin Komins) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:39:11 -0500 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? In-Reply-To: <20030927122235.A19090@telepres.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Eric Siegerman wrote: :Subject: Re: HW:Another HW Book? : :On Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 08:49:54AM +0100, Ian Abrahams wrote: :> [...] my comittment to the :> people who spared me interview time is that I will self-publish if a :> publishing company can't be found to take on the project. : :Or "do the indie thing". Sounds so much nicer, doesn't it? : :Really, why is it that "indie" bands are considered gutsy and :enterprising, but "self-published" authors merely desperate? : :Let's hear it for independent book publishing! hrm. IMHO, self-published authors tend to suffer fairly highly from what I call "lack of editing" ;-) I have no problems with independent book publishing, and I support small publishers whenever I can (and whenever they produce a decent product ;-) ), but I don't think small publishers should publish themselves. Arin -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Arin Komins akomins at uchicago.edu Manager of Web Systems Architecture University of Chicago/ENSS/NSIT tel: (773)834-4087 1155 E. 60th St. #302B Chicago, IL 60637 fax: (773)702-0559 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From xl5 at IINET.NET.AU Mon Sep 29 12:43:52 2003 From: xl5 at IINET.NET.AU (William Duffy) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:43:52 +0800 Subject: Re. More on new Doctor Who series In-Reply-To: <9516C5462A22114B9A55EBF7FEB3D206026698B4@uk01ex01.travel.oag.com> Message-ID: Hi there Paul McGann (the most recent Doctor, stated that if it was a female Doctor, Maggie Smith would be great. Although I'm not fond of the idea of a female Doctor, she'd be one I'd choose if I had to. I've seen Lenny Henry in a few serious roles, including a programme called Hope & Glory. Also, like Richard E Grant, he's already played the Doctor in a parody. Richard E Grant is actually about to appear again as the Doctor, in an animated version being made for the anniversary. At one stage over the weekend I was wondering if this is intended as a trial run, to see if fans like him in the role? Jonathan Pryce would be a great choice, also he played The Master in the Rowan Atkinson send up, Curse of Fatal Death. Some of the names that have been mentioned, although would be interesting, I don't know if they'd do it? Some are already familiar for other things, & may not want to commit themselves to another series. Others, I suspect, would cost too much. We'll find out eventually. William -----Original Message----- From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List [mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET] On Behalf Of CWarburton at OAG.COM Sent: Tuesday, 30 September 2003 12:16 AM To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET Subject: OFF: Re. More on new Doctor Who series ---------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:53:40 +0800 > From: William Duffy > Subject: OFF: More on new Doctor Who series > I don't want to jump the gun here, because this may not be > the actor to do it at all, but the person who is making the > new series, Russell T Davies, let slip a name to reporters. > Whether this actor is The Doctor, or simply the one he would > like as The Doctor is yet unsure. > The actor I'm talking of may not be familiar by name, but if > I mention a few things he's in, someone is bound to guess who he is. > > His name is Bill Nighy, Well, Helen sent me this today: ******************************** These are the current names re: above ... Bill Nighy Jonathan Pryce Richard E Grant Dame Maggie Smith Lenny Henry ********************************** I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think any of the first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, however, Don Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a perfectly splendid Doctor!! I'd also heard the Alan Davies rumour - that might work, but probably too close to Jonathan Creek. TTFN ChrisW ObCD:Bill Frisell/Blues Dream From mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK Mon Sep 29 12:58:53 2003 From: mail at ABRAHAMSI.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Ian Abrahams) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:58:53 +0100 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arin Komins" > :Let's hear it for independent book publishing! > > hrm. > > IMHO, self-published authors tend to suffer fairly highly from what I call > "lack of editing" ;-) > > I have no problems with independent book publishing, and I support small > publishers whenever I can (and whenever they produce a decent product > ;-) ), but I don't think small publishers should publish themselves. Its a fairish point, Arin - though if Hawkwind were releasing their own records on their own label would you have the same problem with it? I'm guessing maybe not - and its this discrepancy between indie labels and self-publishing that Eric has quite rightly identified. Still, as somebody who *might* have to go down that road for a specific project I agree with the need for editing in-put. Fortunately, I;ve got that side of my project very well sorted :-) Ian From iainferguson at AOL.COM Mon Sep 29 12:58:28 2003 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:58:28 +0100 Subject: OFF: Re. More on new Doctor Who series In-Reply-To: <9516C5462A22114B9A55EBF7FEB3D206026698B4@uk01ex01.travel.oag.com> Message-ID: here here, Don Warrington would be a brilliant Dr Who. CWarburton at OAG.COM wrote: > ---------------------------- > > > > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:53:40 +0800 > > From: William Duffy > > Subject: OFF: More on new Doctor Who series > > > I don't want to jump the gun here, because this may not be > > the actor to do it at all, but the person who is making the > > new series, Russell T Davies, let slip a name to reporters. > > Whether this actor is The Doctor, or simply the one he would > > like as The Doctor is yet unsure. > > The actor I'm talking of may not be familiar by name, but if > > I mention a few things he's in, someone is bound to guess who he is. > > > > His name is Bill Nighy, > > Well, Helen sent me this today: > ******************************** > These are the current names re: above ... > > Bill Nighy > Jonathan Pryce > Richard E Grant > Dame Maggie Smith > Lenny Henry > ********************************** > > I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think any of the > first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, however, Don > Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a perfectly > splendid Doctor!! > > I'd also heard the Alan Davies rumour - that might work, but probably too > close to Jonathan Creek. > > TTFN > ChrisW > ObCD:Bill Frisell/Blues Dream > From akomins at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Sep 29 16:06:13 2003 From: akomins at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Arin Komins) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:06:13 -0500 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? In-Reply-To: <004901c386aa$f78ed080$fa23fea9@r1e1j2> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Ian Abrahams wrote: :Subject: Re: HW:Another HW Book? : :> hrm. :> :> IMHO, self-published authors tend to suffer fairly highly from what I call :> "lack of editing" ;-) :> :Its a fairish point, Arin - though if Hawkwind were releasing their own :records on their own label would you have the same problem with it? I'm :guessing maybe not - and its this discrepancy between indie labels and :self-publishing that Eric has quite rightly identified. It's hard to say. One thing that strikes me is that this is kind of like comparing apples and oranges. Books can be edited for grammer/spelling/punctuation without otherwise affecting an author's work (imho). Does music really work this way? Do you get editors de rigeur? Would an editor = the producer, or the person who is "mastering" the disc (I'm showing my ignorance for a moment, but is this the same person?) Is it possible to have a "masterer" (or whatever you call this person), do standard kinds of things to a recording without touching the artistic integrity of said recording? I'm curious, as we've been seeing huge amounts of "remasters" but we don't tend to see books coming out with "reedits" (although we *do* have a distressing tendency to see books come out later with *no* editing, for popular authors (stephen king, the horrible rerelease of stranger in a strange land, etc.)) Now there are plenty of book editors who do far more than just edit for grammer/spelling/punctuation, and I'm grateful to them for that. I've found (at least in SF/F/H), that many editors help make books better (although I'm sure many authors feel that this compromises their artistic integrity in many cases, as an end consumer, I'm not bothered.) So, in my head, apples and oranges. Well, kind of ;-) (ok. so this logic worked inside my head, but rereading it now, I see it kind of rambles, and doesn't make its point well. If I come up with a better version, I'll post that later.) : :Still, as somebody who *might* have to go down that road for a specific :project I agree with the need for editing in-put. Fortunately, I;ve got that :side of my project very well sorted :-) To which, we can only applaud! Arin (always a fan of decently edited written works.) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Arin Komins akomins at uchicago.edu Manager of Web Systems Architecture University of Chicago/ENSS/NSIT tel: (773)834-4087 1155 E. 60th St. #302B Chicago, IL 60637 fax: (773)702-0559 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From coral at APORT.RU Mon Sep 29 16:37:44 2003 From: coral at APORT.RU (Alisa) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:37:44 +0400 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? Message-ID: I think it all depends on what kind of literature is published. cheers, Alisa > > IMHO, self-published authors tend to suffer fairly highly from what I call > > "lack of editing" ;-) > > > > I have no problems with independent book publishing, and I support small > > publishers whenever I can (and whenever they produce a decent product > > ;-) ), but I don't think small publishers should publish themselves. > > Its a fairish point, Arin - though if Hawkwind were releasing their own > records on their own label would you have the same problem with it? I'm > guessing maybe not - and its this discrepancy between indie labels and > self-publishing that Eric has quite rightly identified. > > Still, as somebody who *might* have to go down that road for a specific > project I agree with the need for editing in-put. Fortunately, I;ve got that > side of my project very well sorted :-) > > Ian > From michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU Mon Sep 29 18:53:11 2003 From: michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU (Michael B) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:23:11 +0930 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? Message-ID: IMHO....... HO HO, YO, YO, HO HUM ;-) WIZZYPLOP, DOODLEkerSPLATT 8>) and the moral to this story is.... NAMFMTBFAWB ;-)) niiiiii > IMHO, self-published authors tend to suffer fairly highly from what I > call > > > "lack of editing" ;-) > > > > > > I have no problems with independent book publishing, and I support small > > > publishers whenever I can (and whenever they produce a decent product > > > ;-) ), but I don't think small publishers should publish themselves. > > > > Its a fairish point, Arin - though if Hawkwind were releasing their own > > records on their own label would you have the same problem with it? I'm > > guessing maybe not - and its this discrepancy between indie labels and > > self-publishing that Eric has quite rightly identified. > > > > Still, as somebody who *might* have to go down that road for a specific > > project I agree with the need for editing in-put. Fortunately, I;ve got > that > > side of my project very well sorted :-) > > > > Ian > > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Tue Sep 30 04:32:54 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:32:54 +0100 Subject: Re. More on new Doctor Who series Message-ID: I'm with Chris on pretty well all the below. A couple of points to add - if they want a black doctor, how about Rudolph Walker? The coolest, most laid back Trinidadian on television - *ever*. He'd make an *ace* Doctor! Also, I may be the only person to think that Paul McGann made a great Doctor - that slightly mad look that Tom Baker and the rest of the great Doctors had down pat! (Same reason that people keep mentioning Richard E Grant, although I think he's too obvious.) Cheers, Rich. > > Well, Helen sent me this today: > ******************************** > These are the current names re: above ... > > Bill Nighy > Jonathan Pryce > Richard E Grant > Dame Maggie Smith > Lenny Henry > ********************************** > > I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think any of the > first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, however, Don > Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a perfectly > splendid Doctor!! > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Tue Sep 30 04:41:29 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:41:29 +0100 Subject: HW:Another HW Book? Message-ID: Ah. It's all going very well then, is it Michael? :-) Cheers, Rich. > IMHO....... HO HO, YO, YO, HO HUM ;-) > > WIZZYPLOP, DOODLEkerSPLATT 8>) > > and the moral to this story is.... NAMFMTBFAWB ;-)) > niiiiii > From iainferguson at AOL.COM Tue Sep 30 05:03:07 2003 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:03:07 +0100 Subject: Re. More on new Doctor who In-Reply-To: <004f01c3872d$7220b4d0$0100a8c0@NoddyHolder> Message-ID: Who mentioned wanting a black Dr Who, it matters not a jot, Don Warrington is just a bloody good actor thats all Richard Lockwood wrote: > I'm with Chris on pretty well all the below. A couple of points to > add - if > they want a black doctor, how about Rudolph Walker? The coolest, most > laid > back Trinidadian on television - *ever*. He'd make an *ace* Doctor! > > Also, I may be the only person to think that Paul McGann made a great > Doctor - that slightly mad look that Tom Baker and the rest of the great > Doctors had down pat! (Same reason that people keep mentioning Richard E > Grant, although I think he's too obvious.) > > Cheers, > > Rich. > > > > > Well, Helen sent me this today: > > ******************************** > > These are the current names re: above ... > > > > Bill Nighy > > Jonathan Pryce > > Richard E Grant > > Dame Maggie Smith > > Lenny Henry > > ********************************** > > > > I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think any of the > > first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, however, Don > > Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a perfectly > > splendid Doctor!! > > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Tue Sep 30 05:12:04 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:12:04 +0100 Subject: Re. More on new Doctor who Message-ID: I know - it's just that a lot of discussions I've seen on this topic are saying "We should have a black Doctor", or "We should have a gay Doctor". Sorry if I came across as making Doctor Who a race issue - I didn't intend that. Cheers, Rich. > Who mentioned wanting a black Dr Who, it matters not a jot, Don > Warrington is just a bloody good actor thats all > > > Richard Lockwood wrote: > > > I'm with Chris on pretty well all the below. A couple of points to > > add - if > > they want a black doctor, how about Rudolph Walker? The coolest, most > > laid > > back Trinidadian on television - *ever*. He'd make an *ace* Doctor! > > > > Also, I may be the only person to think that Paul McGann made a great > > Doctor - that slightly mad look that Tom Baker and the rest of the great > > Doctors had down pat! (Same reason that people keep mentioning Richard E > > Grant, although I think he's too obvious.) > > > > Cheers, > > > > Rich. > > > > > > > > Well, Helen sent me this today: > > > ******************************** > > > These are the current names re: above ... > > > > > > Bill Nighy > > > Jonathan Pryce > > > Richard E Grant > > > Dame Maggie Smith > > > Lenny Henry > > > ********************************** > > > > > > I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think any of the > > > first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, however, Don > > > Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a perfectly > > > splendid Doctor!! > > > > > > > From iainferguson at AOL.COM Tue Sep 30 05:17:23 2003 From: iainferguson at AOL.COM (Iain Ferguson) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:17:23 +0100 Subject: Re. More on new Doctor who In-Reply-To: <00bd01c38732$ea367d60$0100a8c0@NoddyHolder> Message-ID: Nah thats cool man, thought it was being discussed elsewhere as a requirement. however a Gay Dr, now that could add a few nwould have a few different possibilities & dimentiones to the Dr. Regards Iain > I know - it's just that a lot of discussions I've seen on this topic are > saying "We should have a black Doctor", or "We should have a gay Doctor". > > Sorry if I came across as making Doctor Who a race issue - I didn't > intend > that. > > Cheers, > > Rich. > > > > Who mentioned wanting a black Dr Who, it matters not a jot, Don > > Warrington is just a bloody good actor thats all > > > > > > Richard Lockwood wrote: > > > > > I'm with Chris on pretty well all the below. A couple of points to > > > add - if > > > they want a black doctor, how about Rudolph Walker? The coolest, > most > > > laid > > > back Trinidadian on television - *ever*. He'd make an *ace* Doctor! > > > > > > Also, I may be the only person to think that Paul McGann made a > great > > > Doctor - that slightly mad look that Tom Baker and the rest of the > great > > > Doctors had down pat! (Same reason that people keep mentioning > Richard > E > > > Grant, although I think he's too obvious.) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Rich. > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Helen sent me this today: > > > > ******************************** > > > > These are the current names re: above ... > > > > > > > > Bill Nighy > > > > Jonathan Pryce > > > > Richard E Grant > > > > Dame Maggie Smith > > > > Lenny Henry > > > > ********************************** > > > > > > > > I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think > any of > the > > > > first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, > however, > Don > > > > Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a > perfectly > > > > splendid Doctor!! > > > > > > > > > > > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Tue Sep 30 06:42:07 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:42:07 +0100 Subject: Ticketmaster Message-ID: I remember a few days ago a discussion about Ticketmaster deciding to charge tickets at whatever people would pay for them. I have my own views on this, which really aren't important or well thought out enough for me to go into right now (cue cries of "whenever did that stop you in the past??"), but I came across this on a friends website, and figured it was worth sharing. :-) http://www.fireonice.co.uk/mikessite/thoughts/tickets.html Cheers, Rich. From michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU Tue Sep 30 11:31:04 2003 From: michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU (Michael B) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:01:04 +0930 Subject: Re. More on new Doctor who Message-ID: I think the next Dr Who should be played by real life conjoined twin actors. ----------------------------------- Ace Rimmer (Space Adventurer) http://www.alien-dream.com ** smoke me a kipper.... I'll be back for breakfast ** (Alien Dream) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iain Ferguson" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Re. More on new Doctor who > Who mentioned wanting a black Dr Who, it matters not a jot, Don > Warrington is just a bloody good actor thats all > > From michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU Tue Sep 30 11:34:05 2003 From: michael_1968 at OZEMAIL.COM.AU (Michael B) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:04:05 +0930 Subject: Re. More on new Doctor who Message-ID: hmmm - how about a conjoined twin incestuous Dr who - that would cover the gay aspect and show that conjoined twins can be cool as well :) ......Dont let the door slap me on the ass as I go out? ----------------------------------- Ace Rimmer (Space Adventurer) http://www.alien-dream.com ** smoke me a kipper.... I'll be back for breakfast ** (Alien Dream) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Lockwood" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Re. More on new Doctor who > I know - it's just that a lot of discussions I've seen on this topic are > saying "We should have a black Doctor", or "We should have a gay Doctor". > > Sorry if I came across as making Doctor Who a race issue - I didn't intend > that. > > Cheers, > > Rich. > > > > Who mentioned wanting a black Dr Who, it matters not a jot, Don > > Warrington is just a bloody good actor thats all > > > > > > Richard Lockwood wrote: > > > > > I'm with Chris on pretty well all the below. A couple of points to > > > add - if > > > they want a black doctor, how about Rudolph Walker? The coolest, most > > > laid > > > back Trinidadian on television - *ever*. He'd make an *ace* Doctor! > > > > > > Also, I may be the only person to think that Paul McGann made a great > > > Doctor - that slightly mad look that Tom Baker and the rest of the > great > > > Doctors had down pat! (Same reason that people keep mentioning Richard > E > > > Grant, although I think he's too obvious.) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Rich. > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Helen sent me this today: > > > > ******************************** > > > > These are the current names re: above ... > > > > > > > > Bill Nighy > > > > Jonathan Pryce > > > > Richard E Grant > > > > Dame Maggie Smith > > > > Lenny Henry > > > > ********************************** > > > > > > > > I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think any of > the > > > > first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, however, > Don > > > > Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a perfectly > > > > splendid Doctor!! > > > > > > > > > > > > From rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK Tue Sep 30 15:30:44 2003 From: rich at BEERPOWEREDNOISEFRENZY.CO.UK (Richard Lockwood) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:30:44 +0100 Subject: Re. More on new Doctor who Message-ID: Oh, highly amusing Michael. Have you been drinking? Maybe an Australian Doctor? A flying doctor maybe. I know, how about Kylie ****ing Minogue. Thinking about it, who really gives a **** about Doctor Who? Why not let a rotting corpse lie? (Mind you, I dug one of those up last weekend in our vegetable patch) Cheers, R. > hmmm - how about a conjoined twin incestuous Dr who - that would cover the > gay aspect and show that conjoined twins can be cool as well :) > > ......Dont let the door slap me on the ass as I go out? > > ----------------------------------- > Ace Rimmer (Space Adventurer) > http://www.alien-dream.com > ** smoke me a kipper.... I'll be back for breakfast ** > (Alien Dream) > > > > I know - it's just that a lot of discussions I've seen on this topic are > > saying "We should have a black Doctor", or "We should have a gay Doctor". > > > > Sorry if I came across as making Doctor Who a race issue - I didn't intend > > that. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Rich. > > > > > > > Who mentioned wanting a black Dr Who, it matters not a jot, Don > > > Warrington is just a bloody good actor thats all > > > > > > > > > Richard Lockwood wrote: > > > > > > > I'm with Chris on pretty well all the below. A couple of points to > > > > add - if > > > > they want a black doctor, how about Rudolph Walker? The coolest, > most > > > > laid > > > > back Trinidadian on television - *ever*. He'd make an *ace* Doctor! > > > > > > > > Also, I may be the only person to think that Paul McGann made a great > > > > Doctor - that slightly mad look that Tom Baker and the rest of the > > great > > > > Doctors had down pat! (Same reason that people keep mentioning > Richard > > E > > > > Grant, although I think he's too obvious.) > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Rich. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Helen sent me this today: > > > > > ******************************** > > > > > These are the current names re: above ... > > > > > > > > > > Bill Nighy > > > > > Jonathan Pryce > > > > > Richard E Grant > > > > > Dame Maggie Smith > > > > > Lenny Henry > > > > > ********************************** > > > > > > > > > > I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think any of > > the > > > > > first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, however, > > Don > > > > > Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a > perfectly > > > > > splendid Doctor!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 30 15:41:17 2003 From: beautiful_foot at HOTMAIL.COM (Zebulon Mysterioso) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:41:17 +0100 Subject: Re. More on new Doctor who Message-ID: Coat. Door. Taxi. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael B" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:34 PM Subject: Re: Re. More on new Doctor who > hmmm - how about a conjoined twin incestuous Dr who - that would cover the > gay aspect and show that conjoined twins can be cool as well :) > > ......Dont let the door slap me on the ass as I go out? > > ----------------------------------- > Ace Rimmer (Space Adventurer) > http://www.alien-dream.com > ** smoke me a kipper.... I'll be back for breakfast ** > (Alien Dream) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Lockwood" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 6:42 PM > Subject: Re: Re. More on new Doctor who > > > > I know - it's just that a lot of discussions I've seen on this topic are > > saying "We should have a black Doctor", or "We should have a gay Doctor". > > > > Sorry if I came across as making Doctor Who a race issue - I didn't intend > > that. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Rich. > > > > > > > Who mentioned wanting a black Dr Who, it matters not a jot, Don > > > Warrington is just a bloody good actor thats all > > > > > > > > > Richard Lockwood wrote: > > > > > > > I'm with Chris on pretty well all the below. A couple of points to > > > > add - if > > > > they want a black doctor, how about Rudolph Walker? The coolest, > most > > > > laid > > > > back Trinidadian on television - *ever*. He'd make an *ace* Doctor! > > > > > > > > Also, I may be the only person to think that Paul McGann made a great > > > > Doctor - that slightly mad look that Tom Baker and the rest of the > > great > > > > Doctors had down pat! (Same reason that people keep mentioning > Richard > > E > > > > Grant, although I think he's too obvious.) > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Rich. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Helen sent me this today: > > > > > ******************************** > > > > > These are the current names re: above ... > > > > > > > > > > Bill Nighy > > > > > Jonathan Pryce > > > > > Richard E Grant > > > > > Dame Maggie Smith > > > > > Lenny Henry > > > > > ********************************** > > > > > > > > > > I rather like the idea of Dame Maggie myself, though I think any of > > the > > > > > first four might work. I think Lenny would be a disaster, however, > > Don > > > > > Warrington (Rising Damp & Manchild) would, I think , make a > perfectly > > > > > splendid Doctor!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From m.j.crook at TALK21.COM Tue Sep 30 16:07:09 2003 From: m.j.crook at TALK21.COM (Mick Crook) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:07:09 -0400 Subject: HW: The cooper temple clause - space rock? Message-ID: Dave Wrote - > has anybody else on the list got the new album by the cooper temple >clause - "kick up the fire and let the flames break loose". whilst having >a variety of influences and a very modern sound there is IMHO also a >massive debt to Hawkwind as far as the overall sound goes. i'd reccommend >folks check it out if for no other reason than you seem to be able to pick >it up for around ?10.00 and initial copies come with an additional DVD of >promo videos which can't be bad value in this day and age, and the music's >pretty good! >hope that's of interest to some of you >regards >dave >p.s also put cooper temple clause + hawkwind into a search engine >www.google.com and you'll find quite a lot of interesting results! I've not heard the new one yet but I'll soon be getting it - I agree, CTC are very Hawkwind influenced- there's a section on the first track of the first album which wouldn't be out of place on 'In Search of Space' I'd heard they were changing their sound for this new album, so I'm glad they've not changed it that much. Mick -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com From m.j.crook at TALK21.COM Tue Sep 30 16:13:19 2003 From: m.j.crook at TALK21.COM (Mick Crook) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:13:19 -0400 Subject: HW - Calvert Worksong Message-ID: I think Steve Pond's version of Bob Calvert's "Worksong" is a little gem. I followed the link to it from the Hawkwind Museum site - thanks for drawing our attention to it out Curator Law. Mick -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com From nick at DARTRESTORATION.FREESERVE.CO.UK Tue Sep 30 16:52:26 2003 From: nick at DARTRESTORATION.FREESERVE.CO.UK (nick HODGSON) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:52:26 +0100 Subject: HW: The cooper temple clause - space rock? Message-ID: Cheers Mick, might check that out......... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Crook" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:07 PM Subject: Re: HW: The cooper temple clause - space rock? Dave Wrote - > has anybody else on the list got the new album by the cooper temple >clause - "kick up the fire and let the flames break loose". whilst having >a variety of influences and a very modern sound there is IMHO also a >massive debt to Hawkwind as far as the overall sound goes. i'd reccommend >folks check it out if for no other reason than you seem to be able to pick >it up for around ?10.00 and initial copies come with an additional DVD of >promo videos which can't be bad value in this day and age, and the music's >pretty good! >hope that's of interest to some of you >regards >dave >p.s also put cooper temple clause + hawkwind into a search engine >www.google.com and you'll find quite a lot of interesting results! I've not heard the new one yet but I'll soon be getting it - I agree, CTC are very Hawkwind influenced- there's a section on the first track of the first album which wouldn't be out of place on 'In Search of Space' I'd heard they were changing their sound for this new album, so I'm glad they've not changed it that much. Mick -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com From jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK Tue Sep 30 18:06:44 2003 From: jill at THETA-ORIONIS.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Jill Strobridge) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:06:44 +0100 Subject: Dr Who revisited Message-ID: I've just been watching Tom Baker. He was sitting on some steps inside a lighthouse having a conversation with a cabbage. A large one. It was covered in clingfilm liberally decorated with washing up foam but it was beyond any question of uncertainty a cabbage and it laboured its way slowly up the steps accompanied by strange a high pitched stereophonic sound while with great seriousness, total belief and absolutely no trace of humour Tom Baker accused it of being a lethal alien about to embark on an orgy of galactic destruction, not to mention total annihilation of the human race. I wonder - could any new series ever possibly achieve the quality of the original.......? jill ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jill Strobridge -----------------------------------------------------------------